What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

brendanwalsh · 12-06-2021 03:51PM

Hopefully they offer everyone who got the first AZ an option for Pfizer or Moderna as their second jab especially anyone young.

ddarcy · 12-06-2021 04:01PM

astrofool wrote: »

They are planning in case they are needed, there is no data forthcoming that boosters will be needed yet, even for the Beta (SA) variant.

Actually the 6 month results from the American trials are due imminently. Pfizer/Moderna released them within a week. So in theory we should know something really soon (really within the next week) on its continuing results.

Furze99 · 12-06-2021 09:57PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Hopefully they offer everyone who got the first AZ an option for Pfizer or Moderna as their second jab especially anyone young.

Well I got AZ as first dose 5 weeks ago. Weighing things up, I'm not inclined to take a second AZ dose. Not interested in being a vaccination statistic for the HSE so they can tick their boxes and use up supplies. Would fully expect a campaign from HSE in a few more months to effect - 'we know you got the AZ vaccine and this saved you from serious illness but... it's not as effective as other vaccines and therefore please attend xyz for vaccine abc now'.

Bottom line, I don't like being messed around with in these matters. Not that gone on medicines and vaccines but happy to take a vaccine for communal and societal reasons. However if I do take one, I want a vaccine that gives maximum protection and least possible side effects - both short and long term.

astrofool · 12-06-2021 10:16PM

There is no indication that AZ offers less protection in the long term, and may end up having a more long lasting immune response (given that it builds immune response week on week), those on Pfizer could well be offered a booster, while those on AZ may not need one, results from Scotland had AZ ahead of Pfizer in effectiveness in real world cases.

Important to note that the spike protein used to generate antibodies will be the same across all vaccines, the difference in efficacy will be down to how the vaccine causes your body to react to that spike protein, but all do the essential job of getting your immune system exposed to the main weapon of SARS-COV2 so your body can start to generate antibodies and t-cells. It also means that variants are going to be an issue or not for all vaccines equally and we have yet to see any immune escape, so you can be confident whether you got a full course of AZ, J&J, Pfizer or Moderna.

robinph · 12-06-2021 10:40PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Thank you
Any idea where data like this us recorded?
Last I saw they weren't giving this breakdown.

Someone on Reddit puts together a guesstimate of the numbers based on Scottish numbers which apparently get released weekly and give the breakdown between the different supplies they get. The supply ratio to each country in the UK is equal, and it's known how many doses each is giving each day. Not completely accurate, but won't be very far off unless one of the countries is lying about actually having vaccinated people.

The Welsh government also release data on how many doses are wasted, so they can get an estimate for the UK as a whole from that number also.

Wolf359f · 12-06-2021 10:55PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Thank you
Any idea where data like this us recorded?
Last I saw they weren't giving this breakdown.

robinph wrote: »

Someone on Reddit puts together a guesstimate of the numbers based on Scottish numbers which apparently get released weekly and give the breakdown between the different supplies they get. The supply ratio to each country in the UK is equal, and it's known how many doses each is giving each day. Not completely accurate, but won't be very far off unless one of the countries is lying about actually having vaccinated people.

The Welsh government also release data on how many doses are wasted, so they can get an estimate for the UK as a whole from that number also.

MHRA yellow card reporting gives good breakdowns.

As of 2 June, an estimated 14.7 million first doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and 24.5 million first doses of the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca had been administered, and around 10.7 million and 15.7 million second doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, respectively. An approximate 0.46 million first doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna have also now been administered.

Ficheall · 12-06-2021 10:58PM

ddarcy wrote: »

They said yesterday that they would start from the people at 12 weeks and gradually being it down.

I saw a brief mention of this somewhere, but little detail.. Have they elaborated anywhere?

If Ann was vaccinated on week 1 and is waiting the full twelve weeks, her second vax is week 13.
Barry, who was vaccinated on week 2, only has to wait 11 weeks because they're speeding things up. Thus he gets his second vax in week 13.
Clyde got his first vax in week 3, and only has to wait a mere 10 weeks - so he gets his second vax in week 13.

Grossly oversimplified, obviously, but.. have they (released) a plan?

Wolf359f · 12-06-2021 11:07PM

Ficheall wrote: »

I saw a brief mention of this somewhere, but little detail.. Have they elaborated anywhere?

If Ann was vaccinated on week 1 and is waiting the full twelve weeks, her second vax is week 13.
Barry, who was vaccinated on week 2, only has to wait 11 weeks because they're speeding things up. Thus he gets his second vax in week 13.
Clyde got his first vax in week 3, and only has to wait a mere 10 weeks - so he gets his second vax in week 13.

Grossly oversimplified, obviously, but.. have they (released) a plan?

I think the idea is (supply dependent) the people who received AZ in week 1, will be given their second jab as soon as there's supply. If there's excess supply that week, people who got theirs in week 2, will get it and so on and so forth. It's all down to supply. They planned for a dosing gap of 12 (16 in some situations) so we're back to being supply limited trying to get it down to 8 weeks.

PMBC · 13-06-2021 06:59AM

I got my AZ seven weeks ago and yesterday got an appointment for next Friday for 2nd shot - so eight weeks and a day. I'm assuming it will be AZ and i'm happy.

rm212 · 13-06-2021 08:55AM

I’m 25 and just got my second dose of AZ 10 minutes ago. It was given 12 weeks to the day, with 24 hours notice of the appointment. No alternative option offered obviously, otherwise I would have taken it… but hopefully the AZ serves me well in terms of protection.

Marcusm · 13-06-2021 12:35PM

Furze99 wrote: »

Well I got AZ as first dose 5 weeks ago. Weighing things up, I'm not inclined to take a second AZ dose. Not interested in being a vaccination statistic for the HSE so they can tick their boxes and use up supplies. Would fully expect a campaign from HSE in a few more months to effect - 'we know you got the AZ vaccine and this saved you from serious illness but... it's not as effective as other vaccines and therefore please attend xyz for vaccine abc now'.

Bottom line, I don't like being messed around with in these matters. Not that gone on medicines and vaccines but happy to take a vaccine for communal and societal reasons. However if I do take one, I want a vaccine that gives maximum protection and least possible side effects - both short and long term.

The best real world experience is the U.K. which has rolled both out to millions. The reports from there is that there is little real world difference in efficacy. Long term effects can only be determined in the long term! Side effects are rare with each vaccine, rare clotting disorders from AZ have achieved more press than myocarditis in the mRNA vaccines but that can change over time. Having had one shot, it would not be to your benefit to avoid the second. Frustration with authorities isn’t really a reason to avoid protecting yourself.

13-06-2021 01:15PM

Furze99 wrote: »

Well I got AZ as first dose 5 weeks ago. Weighing things up, I'm not inclined to take a second AZ dose. Not interested in being a vaccination statistic for the HSE so they can tick their boxes and use up supplies. Would fully expect a campaign from HSE in a few more months to effect - 'we know you got the AZ vaccine and this saved you from serious illness but... it's not as effective as other vaccines and therefore please attend xyz for vaccine abc now'.

Bottom line, I don't like being messed around with in these matters. Not that gone on medicines and vaccines but happy to take a vaccine for communal and societal reasons. However if I do take one, I want a vaccine that gives maximum protection and least possible side effects - both short and long term.

12% of the worlds population has one dose of any vaccine.

You say your not that gone on vaccines, but want to mix and match them like a child in a sweet shop.

I got AZ and agree that we'll probably be boosted with Pfzier before the end of the year after everyone gets two doses of AZ first. We might be the best protected by years end. Best of both worlds.

AZ in all likilhood will stop you getting very sick from covid.

Think positive and be grateful you have received a proven vaccine that protects you from covid. The whole danger from covid is that its a novel virus for people that are getting on in years. Covid is no longer novel to your body. Think positively. Youd swear it was poison you were injected with and not life saving vaccine.

Everyone in time, in my opinion will be offered boosters.

Its a process, not the final outcome.

With regards to side effects they all have them.

The younger you are the more likely you are to have them.

With regards to long term protection nobody knows that for sure, but AZ does produce better t cell immunity than pfzier.

At a guess it is more likely that AZ has longer term immunity as antibodies wane over time, but t cells can stick around for years.

deeperlearning · 13-06-2021 05:14PM

Marcusm wrote: »

The best real world experience is the U.K. which has rolled both out to millions. The reports from there is that there is little real world difference in efficacy. Long term effects can only be determined in the long term! Side effects are rare with each vaccine, rare clotting disorders from AZ have achieved more press than myocarditis in the mRNA vaccines but that can change over time. Having had one shot, it would not be to your benefit to avoid the second. Frustration with authorities isn’t really a reason to avoid protecting yourself.

What you state here is disingenuous.

In the initial part of the rollout in the UK, Pfizer was administered to healthcare workers. The UK data is not reliable as the exposure to the virus is not the same.

robinph · 13-06-2021 05:22PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

What you state here is disingenuous.

In the initial part of the rollout in the UK, Pfizer was administered to healthcare workers. The UK data is not reliable as the exposure to the virus is not the same.

What's not reliable?

Since the end of January both vaccines were being dished out in massive numbers to everyone with no significant difference in who got what until later in the program. At the end of January there were around 5 million people who had had Pfizer, by early March it was around 10 million each for both Pfizer and Astra Zeneca and there was plenty of cases of covid in the community still at that time. Pfizer had a bit of a headstart, but the UK data has to be one of the best to look at for comparison between the vaccines.

13-06-2021 05:30PM

By the way,the public health England Survey's were done during lockdown
Its really only from now on that proper real world testing of vaccines in the UK has begun

blackcard · 13-06-2021 05:33PM

PMBC wrote: »

I got my AZ seven weeks ago and yesterday got an appointment for next Friday for 2nd shot - so eight weeks and a day. I'm assuming it will be AZ and i'm happy.

Do you mind if I ask what cohort you are in and what part of the country you are from?I got my AZ jab 5 weeks ago in Kilkenny

Furze99 · 13-06-2021 09:06PM

Woody79 wrote: »

You say your not that gone on vaccines, but want to mix and match them like a child in a sweet shop

No - I'd rather not take any vaccines and certainly don't want to mix & match like sweets!!

All 'vaccine hesistant' (not antivax) people like me want in these circumstances is to be able to take the bare minimum of a vaccine that has the strongest protection and least side effects.

I'm not convinced about the take it or leave it strategy of the HSE and state here as regards people in their 60s.

13-06-2021 09:17PM

Furze99 wrote: »

No - I'd rather not take any vaccines and certainly don't want to mix & match like sweets!!

All 'vaccine hesistant' (not antivax) people like me want in these circumstances is to be able to take the bare minimum of a vaccine that has the strongest protection and least side effects.

I'm not convinced about the take it or leave it strategy of the HSE and state here as regards people in their 60s.

Its not as black and white as that
I would NOT like to be heading into an advancing Delta variant without Vaccines
Vaccines are essential
We probably will need boosters untill the whole world is reached

13-06-2021 09:17PM

Furze99 wrote: »

No - I'd rather not take any vaccines and certainly don't want to mix & match like sweets!!

All 'vaccine hesistant' (not antivax) people like me want in these circumstances is to be able to take the bare minimum of a vaccine that has the strongest protection and least side effects.

I'm not convinced about the take it or leave it strategy of the HSE and state here as regards people in their 60s.

I wouldnt class you as vaccine hesitant.

Your looking to take two different vaccines with very limited trial data.

Your actually the opposite of vaccine hesitant.

We are all in the same boat with vaccines.

I'm unsure of what the future holds, but your best course of action is probably just follow hse guidelines.

Stressing yourself out is not going to help or allow you to get option.

I will receive second dose of AZ in just over a week.

I look to the positives:

1. Nobody in all the trials for AZ was hospitalised or died three weeks after first dose.
2. Plenty of good trial data for two dose AZ.
3. Most people in Spain when offered either AZ of Pfzier for second shot (AZ 1st) still opted for AZ.
4. We'll probably get boosters in time, but let others trial it before us (dont be in a trial yourself mixing vaccines). Too many scenarios to know whats best at moment. AZ could turn it to better as time goes on but Pfzier could wane. Nobody knows but knee jerk decision could be a mistake in time.

ddarcy · 14-06-2021 01:05PM

Top EMA official advises against AstraZeneca’s jab

The EMA’s head of vaccine strategy has recommended the EU avoid AstraZeneca’s vaccine in situations in which an alternative is available, The Brussels Times reported Monday. He also recommended the J&J jab only be used in patients above the age of 60.

Marco Cavaleri made the comments to the Italian newspaper La Stampa over the weekend. Italy restricted the use of AstraZeneca’s vaccine in patients under the age of 60 because of the fear of rare but dangerous blood clots.

When asked if it was better to halt using AstraZeneca altogether for all age groups, Cavaleri agreed, and said that it’s an option many countries are taking into consideration as the supply of mRNA vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer becomes more readily available.

[url] https://endpts.com/covid-19-roundup-germany-puts-j-top-ema-official-suggests-forgoing-astrazeneca-shot/[/url]

[url] https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173797/top-ema-executive-recommends-scrapping-astrazeneca-vaccine/[/url]

So more bad news for AstraZenica. Shock horror, no Irish media reporting.

Level 42 · 14-06-2021 01:10PM

ddarcy wrote: »

[url] https://endpts.com/covid-19-roundup-germany-puts-j-top-ema-official-suggests-forgoing-astrazeneca-shot/[/url]

[url] https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173797/top-ema-executive-recommends-scrapping-astrazeneca-vaccine/[/url]

So more bad news for AstraZenica. Shock horror, no Irish media reporting.

What are ya looking for thumbs up is it ?

ddarcy · 14-06-2021 02:00PM

Level 42 wrote: »

What are ya looking for thumbs up is it ?

No I expect the HSE, media etc to give everyone all the ongoing information so that people can make an informed choice. If there is no issue with the vaccine, then no reason to bury the news.

Hodger · 14-06-2021 02:37PM

ddarcy wrote: »

No I expect the HSE, media etc to give everyone all the ongoing information so that people can make an informed choice. If there is no issue with the vaccine, then no reason to bury the news.

Last week it was reported by the Irish times one in six will only take a vaccine if its a vaccine of their choice.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/one-in-six-people-will-only-take-vaccine-if-offered-preference-research-indicates-1.4586072

I fit into this category Im only gonna take a vaccine if I get to choose pfizer vaccine.

Under no circumstances will I be accepting AstraZeneca or J & J .

You are correct in your analysis there is no reason to bury the news any and all news relating to vaccine safety should be reported on properly by the media so people can make an informed choice if they are offered AstraZeneca.

astrofool · 14-06-2021 03:13PM

ddarcy wrote: »

[url] https://endpts.com/covid-19-roundup-germany-puts-j-top-ema-official-suggests-forgoing-astrazeneca-shot/[/url]

[url] https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173797/top-ema-executive-recommends-scrapping-astrazeneca-vaccine/[/url]

So more bad news for AstraZenica. Shock horror, no Irish media reporting.

There's not much news there, no data driving it and just giving an opinion that was related to the rare chance of CVST and said absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine, the EMA guidance has not changed around the use of AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines.

Hodger wrote: »

Last week it was reported by the Irish times one in six will only take a vaccine if its a vaccine of their choice.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/one-in-six-people-will-only-take-vaccine-if-offered-preference-research-indicates-1.4586072

I fit into this category Im only gonna take a vaccine if I get to choose pfizer vaccine.

This is fine, you just have to be OK waiting and keep practicing social distancing measures and hoping that there isn't too many people ahead of you in the queue for choosing a vaccine.

ddarcy · 14-06-2021 03:24PM

astrofool wrote: »

There's not much news there, no data driving it and just giving an opinion that was related to the rare chance of CVST and said absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine, the EMA guidance has not changed around the use of AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines.

This is fine, you just have to be OK waiting and keep practicing social distancing measures and hoping that there isn't too many people ahead of you in the queue for choosing a vaccine.

When the opinion is coming from the Head of Anti-Infectives and Vaccines at the EMA, then sorry totally disagree. It’s like the CEO of Starbucks saying Insomnia is better.

robinph · 14-06-2021 03:29PM

ddarcy wrote: »

When the opinion is coming from the Head of Anti-Infectives and Vaccines at the EMA, then sorry totally disagree. It’s like the CEO of Starbucks saying Insomnia is better.

No. It's like the CEO of Starbucks saying that coffee contains caffeine and you shouldn't give it to small children...and everyone wondering why they are trying to make a story out of something we already all knew.

ddarcy · 14-06-2021 03:36PM

robinph wrote: »

No. It's like the CEO of Starbucks saying that coffee contains caffeine and you shouldn't give it to small children...and everyone wondering why they are trying to make a story out of something we already all knew.

You may have missed where he said AstraZenica should be halted for all age groups. Someone in his position has to be very careful in saying/inferring that.

robinph · 14-06-2021 03:48PM

ddarcy wrote: »

You may have missed where he said AstraZenica should be halted for all age groups.

You may have missed where they said just to use something else if you have it.

The position is still that Astra Zeneca is significantly better than no vaccine, it's better in someone's arm than in the bin or being stored in a fridge.

Lyle · 14-06-2021 03:52PM

ddarcy wrote: »

[url] https://endpts.com/covid-19-roundup-germany-puts-j-top-ema-official-suggests-forgoing-astrazeneca-shot/[/url]

[url] https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173797/top-ema-executive-recommends-scrapping-astrazeneca-vaccine/[/url]

So more bad news for AstraZenica. Shock horror, no Irish media reporting.

This is bollocks.

From the EMA:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1404072431766151172

From Cavaleri himself:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/astrazeneca-shots-should-be-halted-over-60s-too-ema-official-2021-06-13/

"Unfortunately my words have not been interpreted correctly in a recent interview with La Stampa," Cavaleri said in a statement to Reuters. The AstraZeneca shot "maintains a favourable benefit risk profile in all ages but particularly in the elderly above 60," he said.

14-06-2021 04:20PM

ddarcy wrote: »

You may have missed where he said AstraZenica should be halted for all age groups. Someone in his position has to be very careful in saying/inferring that.

Except that's not what they said, at all

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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