Spiral out - keep going

Treviso · 17-05-2021 9:05am

skyblue46 wrote: »

T, I hope you don't mind if I ask a question. Don't take it the wrong way because as you know from the training I'm doing at the moment I'm not afraid to go against conventional wisdom either :pac:

I'm just wondering what the absolute adherence to paces is all about? Wearing special shoes, turning downwind, turning yourself inside out...Surely allowance must be made for weather conditions, inclines etc? For example if the intention of the 5:55 paces was to have you running at 10 mile pace thats great. But in a straight 10 mile race into the wind you would not be trying to run at 5:55 as you would realise it wasn't an appropriate pace. Is the effort not more mportant than the time on the watch?

Thanks S and it's something I need to be keep reminded about. Yes, the paces are a guide which should be dependent on conditions. I'm still not great on judging effort levels for runs, it's something that I'm still trying to learn - hence the watch gazing I suppose. The rapid improvement seems to be slowing down, so hopefully I'll get better at judging effort when the paces steady somewhat.

I think that session was an outlier though, where the body was struggling. I was trying every trick in the book to get through it. TBH the wind that day wasn't the strongest, just added to the strain on the day

AuldManKing · 17-05-2021 9:14am

skyblue46 wrote: »

T, I hope you don't mind if I ask a question. Don't take it the wrong way because as you know from the training I'm doing at the moment I'm not afraid to go against conventional wisdom either :pac:

I'm just wondering what the absolute adherence to paces is all about? Wearing special shoes, turning downwind, turning yourself inside out...Surely allowance must be made for weather conditions, inclines etc? For example if the intention of the 5:55 paces was to have you running at 10 mile pace thats great. But in a straight 10 mile race into the wind you would not be trying to run at 5:55 as you would realise it wasn't an appropriate pace. Is the effort not more mportant than the time on the watch?

Treviso wrote: »

Thanks S and it's something I need to be keep reminded about. Yes, the paces are a guide which should be dependent on conditions. I'm still not great on judging effort levels for runs, it's something that I'm still trying to learn - hence the watch gazing I suppose. The rapid improvement seems to be slowing down, so hopefully I'll get better at judging effort when the paces steady somewhat.

I think that session was an outlier though, where the body was struggling. I was trying every trick in the book to get through it. TBH the wind that day wasn't the strongest, just added to the strain on the day

We share the same coach and I had a conversation with him about this very subject.
Guidance is to run by effort - pace is guide only - you go slower on the uphills - slower into the wind etc.

The difference though is that we are runners - competitive beasts.
We see a time wrote down on our training plan and that then becomes the target to beat - rather than a guide pace - 5-10 secs either side wouldn't really matter in the overall scheme - but more often than not - we "beat" it.
We set out to 'beat' it - the nature of the athlete I suppose.

But to defend the coach - he epouses the pace as a guide and advises us to slow down on uphills & into the wind.

Treviso · 17-05-2021 10:07am

Thanks for putting it better than I could A

AuldManKing wrote: »

But to defend the coach - he epouses the pace as a guide and advises us to slow down on uphills & into the wind.

Yea to confirm, he constantly tells me that these paces are a guide and I should run by feel/effort. Also to stop the watch gazing - as well as going over effort levels, it may also be restricting me at times. I may eventually learn this lesson

skyblue46 · 17-05-2021 10:30am

Cheers lads. Ye are both putting in monstrous and tough sessions at the moment....my go to pain cave logs :pac:

healy1835 · 17-05-2021 1:00pm

FWIW I've been seeking out more undulating terrain for sessions and LRs lately. The loop I (and a lot of other local athletes) use in the Curragh Camp is just under a mile and relatively flat. It also is usually traffic free which adds to the appeal. I've found though that running on the shorter loop just gives a bit of a false economy and doesn't replicate any sort of race conditions really. Like I did 16 Miles MP on it a while back which pretty much finished me with it!

I've my trusty bog loop which is a great track and pretty challenging, and the Lidl loop, whilst pancake flat, usually gives you a decent breeze to contend with. But going forward for my marathon block I'm not going to stick to the loops for LR sessions, rather I'm going to get out of town and get as much variety as possible, paces be damned!

Swashbuckler · 17-05-2021 1:54pm

I'm similar in that I've used a pretty flat loop for my sessions over the past year, mainly that I want to focus on executing the session which is difficult when effort levels are continuously modulating.

On the topic of effort level/prescribed pace I've always been an advocate for learning how to run on feel. It's probably the best skill I've picked up over the years and makes a massive difference when racing. Funny tho, as AMK pointed out, when you see a pace it's hard not to chase it. I had a progression run at the weekend working down to 5.45. In reality it was working dowk to 10k effort. I never made it to 5.45 as I would have had to strain to do so. Even though I made it to 10k effort I was still a little annoyed at myself for not hitting the target. We're competitive beasts alright.

shotgunmcos · 17-05-2021 2:05pm

I'll do flat loop for anything up to 5 min reps as I can get it done in a lap. Otherwise tempo, MP etc is all terrain.

Sorry for asking in your log Treviso but seems folk have set up shop here today!

When plugging reps like 5x Xmin @6:XX into your watch do you create a +/- 5sec range then just run on feel and see how it turns out? Or try to stick to the middle of that range (your target pace)?

Reason I ask, is that I plug in the +/-5 sec and try to run on feel but the buzzing of the watch outside the range is distracting. However you do want it to buzz/beep to let you know rep/rest is over..

AuldManKing · 17-05-2021 2:56pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I'll do flat loop for anything up to 5 min reps as I can get it done in a lap. Otherwise tempo, MP etc is all terrain.

Sorry for asking in your log Treviso but seems folk have set up shop here today!

When plugging reps like 5x Xmin @6:XX into your watch do you create a +/- 5sec range then just run on feel and see how it turns out? Or try to stick to the middle of that range (your target pace)?

Reason I ask, is that I plug in the +/-5 sec and try to run on feel but the buzzing of the watch outside the range is distracting. However you do want it to buzz/beep to let you know rep/rest is over..

I set the watch up with no pace range - the buzzing and beeping would cloud my swearing at it.

Treviso · 17-05-2021 3:07pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I'll do flat loop for anything up to 5 min reps as I can get it done in a lap. Otherwise tempo, MP etc is all terrain.

Sorry for asking in your log Treviso but seems folk have set up shop here today!

When plugging reps like 5x Xmin @6:XX into your watch do you create a +/- 5sec range then just run on feel and see how it turns out? Or try to stick to the middle of that range (your target pace)?

Reason I ask, is that I plug in the +/-5 sec and try to run on feel but the buzzing of the watch outside the range is distracting. However you do want it to buzz/beep to let you know rep/rest is over..

Myself, I do not put a +/- 5sec range into the workout, just the 5x Xmin parts - hence the watch gazing on my part

Swashbuckler · 17-05-2021 3:28pm

Same here - I never program a pace range alert. It defeats the purpose of trying to run on feel in my opinion.

skyblue46 · 17-05-2021 11:23pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Same here - I never program a pace range alert. It defeats the purpose of trying to run on feel in my opinion.

I'm beyond baffled at this stage

Swashbuckler · 17-05-2021 11:40pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm beyond baffled at this stage

I'm guessing you think advocating running on feel and also running sessions on flat terrain and trying to avoid modulating effort is contradictory? Because I wouldn't blame you for thinking that

skyblue46 · 18-05-2021 5:25pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'm guessing you think advocating running on feel and also running sessions on flat terrain and trying to avoid modulating effort is contradictory? Because I wouldn't blame you for thinking that

Sorry P, I shouldn't have quoted you. I had just read a few posts and was at a bit of a loss.

Treviso · 23-05-2021 8:32pm

Now where was I?

Off an abandoned session and the rest of the week easy, this week was the remainder of the easy week and then back into the normal training. Could feel the legs getting fresher and fresher as the week went on

Tues 18th - 7m easy, 8:23avg grass

Wed 19th - 7m with 6x45" (75" rec), 7:38avg
Wore the VF4% for this and found that I was hopping along for the 45 seconds and the afterwards cooldown.

Thur 20th - 7m easy, 8:14avg
Absolutely bucketing down with wind and rain for this. It's ok once you get out in it. Wanted to get it done as quickly as possible

Fri 21st - 12x12" hill sprints, 7:55avg
VF4% again. You can see a pattern of average paces for these runs were a lot faster than normal. Wasn't running them too fast, legs just felt really good.

Sat 22nd - 7m easy, 8:17avg grass

Sun 23rd - 6m (4m@6:10, 2m@6:05), 4m WU/CD
I was fairly confident with this run. Knew the legs were feeling great and 6 miles is a nice distance for struggling through any difficulties. Weather conditions were fairly dreadful in terms of rain but wind didn't seem too bad.

There must be a correlation between how good/bad you're feeling versus the strength of the wind. You feel good = you think there's no wind. You feel bad = A tiny bit of wind seems like a hurricane

After the 4 mile warmup, switched into the NEXT% and off I went. Usual fast start settled into a pace that felt fast but one that I thought I could hold for the 6 miles. Looked at the watch and it was just under 6min/mile pace. It slowed a bit for the first mile 6:03 but kept the pace going down the marina for the 2nd 5:57. Next mile included the Blackrock Castle hilly lumps but my legs were feeling good at halfway 6:03 Normally they would be getting leggy or stiff by now.

Was moving freely for the fourth mile and did another sub 6 mile 5:58. With 2 miles to go, the mental aspect of nearly finishing the run caused the body to tire somewhat but physically I was fine 6:02. Last mile started with an upramp and the dreaded footbridge, which did cause a bit of leg wobble, but was able to keep it going for the last mile 6:01. Average for the 6m was 6:01 so was delighted. Route was quite fair too. Whether I could do that pace for 8-10 miles training, that's debatable. Legs feel fine as well today

Weekly mileage - 50
YTD - 1,093

Treviso · 05-06-2021 12:51pm

Training is a bit of a blur recently so another boring update here.

Tues 25th - 7m easy, 8:19avg lashing rain from start to finish

Wed 26th - 20x1' on/off
Wore the Nike Tempo shoes for this as I didn't expect it to be a tough session. They feel so uncomfortable these days, might retire them just shy of 215 miles. Target pace was a shade under 5k pace. Most of them came in around 5.30 pace which was fine. I always underestimate this session though, feeling it will be easier that it actually is.

Thurs 27th - 7m easy, 8:30avg grass

Fri 28th - 12x12" hill sprints Only thing of interest here was I felt I was sluggish for the hill sprints during them but turned out they were quite rapid when checking in Strava

Sat 29th - 7m easy, 8:36avg grass

Sun 30th - 6m@6:10, 2m@6:05, 30'WU/CD
So the coach has put together a group of his Cork runners roughy at the same level, so we can run these sessions together for a couple of reasons. One is to stop us from racing these sessions to the max, and second is group running will make them feel a bit easier. Called the group the Cork Hobbyjoggers, such a sense of humour

This was the first official run together but a few had different sessions (some had 8m@6:15). I was happy to go at that pace too but turned out it was a quick session for everyone. There were two big changes for me that I'll need to adapt to. First was not looping back to the car for the warmup, we stayed out for the whole session. Second and biggest was the pace of the warmup/cooldown miles. They were running them in the 7:30-8 range, whereas I would always be over 8min. I could feel it even before we started the fast miles.

There was 8 of us in total so was a nice group. Weather was particularly hot even at 8am, but I normally don't mind those conditions. First couple of fast miles felt good 6.16, 6:09, was nicely tucked in at the back. Had to remember to take my turn at the front, the unwritten rule. At the front for the next 2 6:08. 6:07, were a bit tougher but overall ok at halfway. Pace increased here by the group for the next mile 6:05 and one of the group dropped off. I took another go at the front and pace inadvertently increased again 6:03 (whoops)

I began to feel it a lot with 2 miles to go. Working off time is unusual for me, seeing 10 minutes left seems like the end of the run - whereas seeing nearly 2 miles left doesn't (hard to explain). The group started to eek ahead of me and I didn't have the energy to keep up. My main goal was not to leave them get that far ahead. The fact that the last two miles were both 6:07 was a great relief to me. If I ran this by myself I would be thrilled. Being left a bit by the group, even though they ran faster than prescribed, didn't make me feel as good. This group running thing may have it's drawbacks. Have to remind myself that these training sessions are part of an overall bigger picture - that'll come with more running experience.

Warm down pace was a bit quick as well, Overall the 16 miles averaged out at 6.52 :eek:

Weekly mileage - 55

Tues 1st - 7m easy, 8:38avg grass

Wed 2nd - 8x1mile@5.45 (3min rec)
No fear of me underestimated this one, in fact I had been dreading it since the weekly plan came out last Sunday. 46 minutes of work at 5.45 pace, jeez. Discovered from another person doing this session that it's 10 mile pace - haha, as if.....
Was able to meet up with one of the Hobby joggers for the session and I do think it was a big help for both of us. The mile rep seemed to always be the same, I would lead out too fast and he would overtake and be stronger towards the end. I think I paced them well, all came in under the 5.45. Got a slight twinge in the hamstring after the fourth rep, but it disappeared thankfully for the rest of the session. Mile reps were 5.40, 5.43, 5.43, 5.44, 5.43, 5.44, 5.43
I was delighted with how it went and just looking back at it now, makes me feel even better about it. Maybe it could be my 10 mile pace

Thurs 3rd - 7m recovery, 8.40avg grass with very stiff legs

Fri 4th - 12x12" hill sprints, 8.15avg Was snapped by the local paperazzi (club member who was doing some recon for today's Virtual HM) while doing the early reps. At least the form looked good in the photos, but probably degraded when he disappeared.

Sat 5th - 7m easy, 8.41avg grass. Good to see the increase in activity at the UCC Farm. Lots of GAA teams out training

That's me up to date. The Thoroughbred HM has snuck up quite quickly, just over 2 weeks to go. I really didn't think it would go ahead but looks like it will (yay). After tomorrow long tempo and Wed's session, I'll have a welcome taper to it. The plan at the moment will be to start at 6min mile pace and see how I'm feeling at halfway, push on if I can. Never thought that I ever would be planning to run a HM sub 6 min pace, but it's just a number right

AuldManKing · 07-06-2021 9:52pm

Great update - not boring at all.

I'd say having 8 people to run with does pose some challenges - but after a while - 3-4 of that group might stick together and it becomes a good little group. I'd still say it beats running on your own.

That 8x1m session - top marks on that !!

Treviso · 10-06-2021 9:00pm

Sun 6th - 10m@6:15, 30' wu/cd
From last week's group of 8, the bank holiday weekend had disrupted most people's plans and the group had whittled down to 3. This will happen most of the time but was still good to have two others to run with. Same route as last week but with an extra loop at the start of the warmup.

Some quick warmup miles and we were into the fast miles. We started at a fast pace, too fast probably, after the first 4 miles my watch showed a 6:08 average. Felt like I couldn't keep going at that pace. Thankfully the next few miles settled into more of the goal pace. One of the group kept going at the faster pace so went a bit ahead for the rest of the run. I had no inclination to follow and neither did the other guy. Last 3 miles and my legs felt very heavy and it did feel like a slog. Watch had us at 6.10 avg at the end, a 61.42 10 miler, which is very close to my current TT PB. Another fast cool down resulted in a 1.25.15 HM PB, and 18 miles at 6:47avg. Longest run of the year

Tues 8th - 7m easy, 8.43avg grass, legs felt surprisingly ok

Wed 9th - 20'@5.50-->5.45, 5min rec, 10x2' on/off. 20'wu/cd
Really worried about this one, because of the 2' reps instead of the normal 1'. Things lined up well for this session. 20' tempo meant I could use it for our club's Fota Cheetah 5k virtual race. I also needed to break in my new Alphaflys before the upcoming HM, so they helped me reduce the 5k time.

Conditions for the session were very warm and muggy, turns out humidity was at 100%. Honestly though, it didn't seem to affect me that much breathing wise - it was the legs that felt the session the most (unless the humidity drains the legs). Ran with the same person as last week, which was a great help again. Changed the shoes after the warmup and felt the spring of the AFs.

In my own head, I wanted to do the first 5k in 5.45 average and then relax a bit for the remaining 2.xx minutes. The first mile felt grand, thought the rest would be easy

but into the 2nd mile and I was working a lot. Had to do a 180 turn ten minutes into the tempo, getting up to pace after the turn was difficult. Was still holding the 5.45avg into the 3rd mile and managed to hang on till the end of the 5k. Finished on a 17.49 5k time.

Pace dropped quite a bit after those beeps, to a 5.56 pace. After the elation of that run came the realisation of the upcoming 10x2' portion. Goal pace was somewhere between 5.30-5.40 pace, depending on how the legs felt. They all came within that range but boy was it a struggle. My legs filled with lactate after the 3rd rep, by the 5th I couldn't get much pace into them but was able to grind out the remaining 4. It was a session that I suffered on but one that I felt great after completing it.

Thurs 10th - 7m recovery, 8.44avg grass. Legs felt great before the run but were quite lethargic during the run

AuldManKing · 10-06-2021 10:49pm

Cracking sessions there.
Flying!!

I'm looking forward (I think) to coming out of the base period.

Comic Book Guy · 18-06-2021 9:05pm

Best of luck tomorrow T, you're in super shape for it.

Treviso · 18-06-2021 9:34pm

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow T, you're in super shape for it.

Thanks J, Sunday is the HM so I've another day of taper madness to get through :pac:

healy1835 · 19-06-2021 7:10pm

Best of luck tomorrow morning pal. It's a nice bit of a free hit for you. Put that fitness of yours to the test and take whatever the morning brings you.
Route is fair, but needs to be negotiated. Miles 6-10 is a bit of drag, nothing major but just be careful not to overdo it there. Once you turn left at 15k and have the Curragh on your right, you'll have a nice last 5k or so back into Kildare town. Wind will be in your favour too, so it's set up for a fast finish. I'll be at the 10 mile marker with some water so I'll keep an eye out for you.

Treviso · 19-06-2021 8:50pm

healy1835 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow morning pal. It's a nice bit of a free hit for you. Put that fitness of yours to the test and take whatever the morning brings you.
Route is fair, but needs to be negotiated. Miles 6-10 is a bit of drag, nothing major but just be careful not to overdo it there. Once you turn left at 15k and have the Curragh on your right, you'll have a nice last 5k or so back into Kildare town. Wind will be in your favour too, so it's set up for a fast finish. I'll be at the 10 mile marker with some water so I'll keep an eye out for you.

Thanks J, you'll hear the slap of the Alphaflys before you see me. I'll be in the Eagle black & yellow top

healy1835 · 22-06-2021 10:22am

How's the body after Sunday?

Treviso · 22-06-2021 5:35pm

healy1835 wrote: »

How's the body after Sunday?

Funny you should ask that, things went a bit downhill with my back after the race on Sunday. Guess I better do a quick update while I'm here to explain in more detail.

Thoroughbred HM
So the week before the race had me doing an easy 15x1' on/off session on Sunday and then all easy running for the week, with the mileage reducing as the race came closer. Felt in good nick, legs did feel a bit sluggish but remember them being like that before a TT. I was having the usual mental battle with myself all week, was really nervous about the race and was no doubt not nice to be around (my lucky family!)

Race was on at 10am. 2 hour trip from Cork so got up at 5.30am. Quick bite to eat, bit of stretching, numerous toilet visits and I was on my way. Arrived in plenty of time and drank my Maurten 320 drink - it is soooo much sweeter than the 160 version. Did a 2 mile warmup out and back to the car. Forecast was meant to be cool and a bit of rain but could feel the heat during the warmup. Got changed into my race gear and headed up to check in for the start.

The main street was full of runners. I had thought they were limited to 100 runners but looked like they were able to field more due to the staggered start times. It was a great sight to see. Went to the designated meeting point for our group, easy to find - just follow the NEXT% and Alphaflys shoes. The group were walked down to the starting point, felt like I was back in school going on a school tour.

Had studied the course during the week and had healy's advice about miles 6-10 in my head. The plan was to head out at 6min pace till halfway and see how I was then. If I was in a group and going a bit slower at the start, that was fine too. We started and I settled into a nice pace early on - had a few runners around me so things looked good. Trouble was the pace settled at 6.10 which was a bit too slow. I picked it up a bit

After going through the stud farm, pace was around the 6.05 mark and had a nice group around me - good to be in a race. I will say that I never felt comfortable even at that point but that how my training runs feel as well. Understandably, the roads were not closed for this race so spent a lot of time running on the edge of country roads and had to watch for uneven surfaces and potholes constantly.

Onto mile 4 and next 2 miles were on a straight road that was quite favourable. Was able to up the pace here a bit and the group were starting to motor. Things were fine but I think it was around this time my back sent me a sharp shock to my brain. I thought nothing of it at the time except where did that come from, and carried on. We turned the corner and met the oncoming wind. I knew these miles were lumpy so knew this is where I needed to put the work in. I knew mile times would suffer but felt I could make it back towards the end of the race.

The group started to stretch out and I did find myself drifting towards the back of it. I knew at this point I was in a spot of bother and started to drift off the back. Not sure what was causing it but I had nothing in the legs to push on and keep up. I was trying my best to maintain the pace but saw that the avg pace was dropping at this point. I was questioning everything - was it the heat, the wind, the hills, did I leave my race in my training, taper not easy enough, promised that I would never do a HM again & added another 10 mins to my marathon goal - the usual self talking when suffering.

I kept saying get to the top turn and things might be different then. I got to the top and things were different but not for the better. I could only go one pace, certainty not faster, and didn't want to go any slower and prolong the suffering. I entered a calm state of agony in trying to get the race over and done with. I passed jhealy around this point, I was well into the pain cave at this point but was at ease with it. The thing is my breathing was fine, was now thanking all the people cheering me on, it was just my legs wouldn't allow me to go any faster.

The last couple of miles felt like an eternity and there was one point that my legs nearly gave way - it was the only point where I thought I might have to stop. Thankfully I finished it out, no sign of a sprint at the end - was really disappointed with the result (1.22.56). Collected my goody bag and walked to the check out area. Talked with others from the group and thankfully they seemed to struggle too. It must've been how hot and humid it was. I got back to the car knowing I had to cool down - it was then when my lower back started to seize up. Attempted to do a cool down but couldn't even start it - I knew it wasn't going to happen.

Had to do a pitstop on the drive back to Cork and could barely get out of the car. It was sore the rest of that day, but it really hit me yesterday. I was like a 90 year man for the whole day, unable to stand up at times, crawling around the house like a baby

Today it is a small bit better but I'm booked in to see a physio tomorrow. There be no running for me (thankfully) for a few days, or rest of week. I'm not in a hurry to get back anyway.

So thinking back to the race
- yes the heat and humidity didn't help
- yes I wouldn't have hit the target time in those conditions anyway
- Hopefully the back issue caused the slowdown in pace in the second part of the race. That the body was protecting itself by reducing my mobility. I would definitely prefer that than knowing it wasn't in the legs and I wasn't able to put up a fight
- yes I hate hiding behind excuses. I think it was an important race for me to have. Every runner has bad races, so I need to learn from this one
- Finally, yes I will need to do some S&C work to prevent this from happening again (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!). Doesn't help when I work from home sitting at a desk all day. My posture wouldn't be great anyway

Comic Book Guy · 22-06-2021 8:26pm

First of all Massive Congrats on the super PB especially in those conditions and for toughing it out. Would have been easy to spit out the dummy and totally ease off in that second half.
Shows the progression you have made in the last year or more that sub 83 mins for HM is seen as a bad day at the office!

Hope all goes well with the Physio.

Laineyfrecks · 22-06-2021 8:33pm

Congrats on the PB T, wasn't an easy one for you but you toughed it out! Hope the back is ok & all goes well at the physio:)

demfad · 23-06-2021 12:08pm

Treviso wrote: »

Funny you should ask that, things went a bit downhill with my back after the race on Sunday. Guess I better do a quick update while I'm here to explain in more detail.

Thoroughbred HM
So the week before the race had me doing an easy 15x1' on/off session on Sunday and then all easy running for the week, with the mileage reducing as the race came closer. Felt in good nick, legs did feel a bit sluggish but remember them being like that before a TT. I was having the usual mental battle with myself all week, was really nervous about the race and was no doubt not nice to be around (my lucky family!)

Race was on at 10am. 2 hour trip from Cork so got up at 5.30am. Quick bite to eat, bit of stretching, numerous toilet visits and I was on my way. Arrived in plenty of time and drank my Maurten 320 drink - it is soooo much sweeter than the 160 version. Did a 2 mile warmup out and back to the car. Forecast was meant to be cool and a bit of rain but could feel the heat during the warmup. Got changed into my race gear and headed up to check in for the start.

The main street was full of runners. I had thought they were limited to 100 runners but looked like they were able to field more due to the staggered start times. It was a great sight to see. Went to the designated meeting point for our group, easy to find - just follow the NEXT% and Alphaflys shoes. The group were walked down to the starting point, felt like I was back in school going on a school tour.

Had studied the course during the week and had healy's advice about miles 6-10 in my head. The plan was to head out at 6min pace till halfway and see how I was then. If I was in a group and going a bit slower at the start, that was fine too. We started and I settled into a nice pace early on - had a few runners around me so things looked good. Trouble was the pace settled at 6.10 which was a bit too slow. I picked it up a bit

After going through the stud farm, pace was around the 6.05 mark and had a nice group around me - good to be in a race. I will say that I never felt comfortable even at that point but that how my training runs feel as well. Understandably, the roads were not closed for this race so spent a lot of time running on the edge of country roads and had to watch for uneven surfaces and potholes constantly.

Onto mile 4 and next 2 miles were on a straight road that was quite favourable. Was able to up the pace here a bit and the group were starting to motor. Things were fine but I think it was around this time my back sent me a sharp shock to my brain. I thought nothing of it at the time except where did that come from, and carried on. We turned the corner and met the oncoming wind. I knew these miles were lumpy so knew this is where I needed to put the work in. I knew mile times would suffer but felt I could make it back towards the end of the race.

The group started to stretch out and I did find myself drifting towards the back of it. I knew at this point I was in a spot of bother and started to drift off the back. Not sure what was causing it but I had nothing in the legs to push on and keep up. I was trying my best to maintain the pace but saw that the avg pace was dropping at this point. I was questioning everything - was it the heat, the wind, the hills, did I leave my race in my training, taper not easy enough, promised that I would never do a HM again & added another 10 mins to my marathon goal - the usual self talking when suffering.

I kept saying get to the top turn and things might be different then. I got to the top and things were different but not for the better. I could only go one pace, certainty not faster, and didn't want to go any slower and prolong the suffering. I entered a calm state of agony in trying to get the race over and done with. I passed jhealy around this point, I was well into the pain cave at this point but was at ease with it. The thing is my breathing was fine, was now thanking all the people cheering me on, it was just my legs wouldn't allow me to go any faster.

The last couple of miles felt like an eternity and there was one point that my legs nearly gave way - it was the only point where I thought I might have to stop. Thankfully I finished it out, no sign of a sprint at the end - was really disappointed with the result (1.22.56). Collected my goody bag and walked to the check out area. Talked with others from the group and thankfully they seemed to struggle too. It must've been how hot and humid it was. I got back to the car knowing I had to cool down - it was then when my lower back started to seize up. Attempted to do a cool down but couldn't even start it - I knew it wasn't going to happen.

Had to do a pitstop on the drive back to Cork and could barely get out of the car. It was sore the rest of that day, but it really hit me yesterday. I was like a 90 year man for the whole day, unable to stand up at times, crawling around the house like a baby Today it is a small bit better but I'm booked in to see a physio tomorrow. There be no running for me (thankfully) for a few days, or rest of week. I'm not in a hurry to get back anyway.

So thinking back to the race
- yes the heat and humidity didn't help
- yes I wouldn't have hit the target time in those conditions anyway
- Hopefully the back issue caused the slowdown in pace in the second part of the race. That the body was protecting itself by reducing my mobility. I would definitely prefer that than knowing it wasn't in the legs and I wasn't able to put up a fight
- yes I hate hiding behind excuses. I think it was an important race for me to have. Every runner has bad races, so I need to learn from this one
- Finally, yes I will need to do some S&C work to prevent this from happening again (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!). Doesn't help when I work from home sitting at a desk all day. My posture wouldn't be great anyway

Good effort and hard luck in this race.

The conditions on these warm days are actually unusually sapping for this country. Many people have noticed the striking difference between an early morning session compared with how the same session feels later in the morning/day. Must be same for a race.

You'll get a serious fitness boost from that race and you'll knock bigger chunks out of that PB next time.

shotgunmcos · 24-06-2021 9:17am

demfad wrote: »

Good effort and hard luck in this race.

The conditions on these warm days are actually unusually sapping for this country. Many people have noticed the striking difference between an early morning session compared with how the same session feels later in the morning/day. Must be same for a race.

You'll get a serious fitness boost from that race and you'll knock bigger chunks out of that PB next time.

+1 the muggy humidity raises my heart rate by 5-10bpm for similar effort. Totally agree that its money in the bank in terms of fitness boost

Treviso · 01-07-2021 3:37pm

The upside of being injured is not having to update this log.

Visiting the physio last Wednesday to get the back checked out. The pain and stiffness had been easing but was still very tight. After the physio checked it out, pressure applied to certain areas, there didn't seem to be any serious damage done thankfully. Probably caused by combination of working from home work posture and the 2 hour drive to the race.

Applying pressure to and working the back was uncomfortable at times but when she started working on the glutes, it was unbearable - pure torture. Tightness of the glutes could've added to the the back stress so will try to loosen them up too - sports massage booked for week. Looser glutes might make me run faster

Running wise, I waited until Sunday to go for a run. Was going to start Friday but caught stupid manflu (headcold) so had to recover from that as well. Probably a blessing as the back felt normal by the time Sunday came around

Sun 27th - 5m moderate, 7.31avg
I decided on 2 laps of the Farm and to do it at a moderate pace between 7:30 & 8min pace. Apart from remnants of the headcold, everything went great - no sign of any back issues. Still didn't feel confident in it being fully recovered though.

Mon 28th - 7m easy, 8:30avg
Back to my usual easy distance - everything was good.

Tues 29th - 7m easy, 8:24avg
Same as above.

Returned to the Physio on Wed for a followup. Everything back to normal it seems. Again the glute work was torture.

Thurs 1st - 7m easy, 7:54avg
Ran this one on tarmac to test the body on the harder surface. Legs felt very good so pace was a bit quicker than usual

The plan for this week is 2 more easy runs of 7 miles and then back to a longer tempo run on Sunday. The plan is for 8-12miles@6:40. The rest of the group are doing 14m at that pace. I will go along with them, see how I'm feeling and call the distance during the run. Just need the run to go well to get full confidence back

Swashbuckler · 01-07-2021 8:14pm

Have had a bit of work done on the piriformis right in the buttcheeks. My physio seems to get great pleasure torturing me with her elbow. It's a horrible horrible area to have to get work done.

shotgunmcos · 01-07-2021 9:12pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Have had a bit of work done on the piriformis right in the buttcheeks. My physio seems to get great pleasure torturing me with her elbow. It's a horrible horrible area to have to get work done.

My guy brings out the needles at will. Glutes are often the culprit for so many problems

ThebitterLemon · 01-07-2021 9:17pm

Tight glutes/piriformis definitely can cause back issues.

I also find lots of sitting of driving plays havoc with my hip flexors and when they are too tight it also causes me back issues.

Savage time by the way

TbL

Treviso · 02-07-2021 12:20pm

Thanks for sharing your own experiences with tight glutes; sounds like I have a lot of painful physio visits in front of me.

AuldManKing · 02-07-2021 3:46pm

Did coach talk to you about an osteopath??

Treviso · 02-07-2021 3:57pm

AuldManKing wrote: »

Did coach talk to you about an osteopath??

Yea, if the injury pops up again I will be venturing down to Clonakilty for a visit

Treviso · 20-07-2021 9:29pm

Time I suppose to update this log, even though the new format is annoying me big time. Christ - 19 days to update 😲

July 2nd - 7m easy

July 3rd - 7m easy (grass)

July 4th - 14m@6.40, 2m wu/cd

On the plan, the coach had it down as 8-12 miles at 6.40. Back and legs were feeling good so I said I would see how it goes and do the 14 with the group if everything was ok. Had even programmed 14 miles on the watch - shows how confident I was. Having the group to run with was a big help and things were fine for the majority of the run. Only struggled for the last 2 miles, which happens on nearly every run! Averaged 6.35 for the 14.

July 6th - 7m easy on grass

July 7th - Supposed to be 20' tempo, 5min rec, 10' tempo

Ended up running just a 2 mile tempo. The target pace was 10 mile effort, which would be about the 5.55-6min mark. I remember during the warmup that my right calf was quite stiff but thought it would loosen up during the tempo. It did to a degree, but I wasn't moving as free as I could. The first fast mile was 5.54 but I was really feeling it in the legs. Was nearing the end of the 2nd mile and decided to call it quits after the 20' tempo. 2nd mile came in at 6.07 and that made me stop there and then. Not that I was fixated with the time, I knew the pace was only going downhill from there so made the call early to prevent me from damaging myself any further

July 8th - 7m easy on grass.

Trip to the physio for a deep tissue massage. It certainty ironed out the tightness in my calves, was not a pleasant experience but it worked

July 9th - 7m easy on grass

July 10th - 7m easy on grass

Legs were definitely feeling very fatigued and weary on these two easy runs. It's like they were still suffering a trauma from the back injury and were taking their time to get back to normal. Either that or there was after effects from the massage (don't think it was though)

July 11th - 90' easy

This was a planned easy run weekend so took advantage of it and ran at my easy pace. Was feeling leggy at the start but got into some sort of rhythm and felt a lot better after it

July 13th - 20' tempo, 5min rec, 10' tempo, 20' WU/CD

Confidence going into this was a bit shot and moving this session to the Tuesday had me worried. Was heading to Tayto Park at the weekend so all runs had to be done before we left on Saturday. Weather was super warm so my aim for this was just to complete the session and not worry about the pace. Started out the 20' tempo first mile in about 6min pace but it slowed over the course of that part to a 6.07 at the finish. Was happy with that, even though I stopped last week doing the same pace. The 10' tempo came in at the same time, with me struggling towards the end. I was actually delighted that I was able to complete it

July 14th - 7m easy on grass

July 15th - 7m easy on grass

As the week went on, the legs seemed to be getting back to normality

July 16th - 14m@6.40, 2m wu/cd

Same session as two weeks ago but two changes. First, was running it by myself on a Friday. Secondly, it was absolutely scorching, Strava said 18C but it was at least a million degrees hot. Good thing about running by myself was being able to do a slow warmup in the Invincibles and then change into the NEXT%. Picked a route that was basically running from Centre Park road in the city center, out to Passage and back again. With the weather the way it was, I didn't mind if the pace drifted out to 6.50 but wanted to keep the effort consistent if I could. Overall, I managed a 6.43 average for the 14 and pleasingly the Heart rate seem to stay constant during the run. It's strange running the session on a Friday, you don't get that "look at me i'm doing a session vibe" 😂

I was absolutely baked at the end of the run. Was sick of the sun already and it was only the start of the heatwave.

July 17th - 5m recovery on grass

I could detail the activities in Tayto park for the weekend but will banish them to the back of my head for good. Walked for about 9 hours in the sun, a good long slow walk. We did visit the National Stud on the way up, just a few weeks after me running through it during the Thoroughbred HM. Highly recommend it to anyone to go visit, even if you don't have an interest in horses (which I don't).

Treviso · 11-08-2021 8:04pm

Nearly a month without logging and it is still on the first page, tells a lot about the boards migration. Although in saying that, I have been fascinated by the GDPR thread in the Feedback forum - kinda relates to my line of work. To say that Boards messed up the migration GDPR wise would be an understatement. Moving all data to Canada without prior consent, previously deleted private messages were restored after the migration (especially the Talk to forums), email addresses of users being leaked etc. I can see why usage of the site is down 60-70%

Anyway, I needed to add that in in order to fill some space for this update. Running wise, I have had to take another break from it - this time it is an achilles issue. Here's the lowdown:

Tues 18th - Sat 24th - Did 7 miles easy for each of these days. Got the second vaccine jab on the 18th so decided not to run a session that week, as a number of people had boinked their sessions.

Sun 25th - 8m tempo, 3m wu/cd

Didn't have a plan for this run. Met up with one of the Dublin joggers group that AMK runs with and was going to run at his pace. He was meant to do 8 miles at HM pace so thought it would be manageable. When we met up, he mentioned 6.15 as his HMP which scared me a bit. I hadn't run at that pace since the HM in Kildare. Weather was roasting at 8am as well. After the 3 mile warmup, we started the tempo and he took off like a shot - defo under 6 min pace. I gradually reached 6.15 pace and starting to reel him in, ran for a bit together at 6.20 but he started to struggle into the second mile (he did a lot of walking around Cork on his holidays that weekend). He dropped back so I continued on myself. I was finding the pace tough so started to ease back and eventually went to a 6.30 average, which in itself felt really tough. In terms of conditions though, it was definitely the right effort levels

Tues 27th - 7m easy on grass

Wed 28th - 20' tempo, 5min rec, 10x1min on/off. 20'wu/cd

Felt I was back on track after this session. The 20' tempo was 5.55 avg, and although I had a tailwind, it felt like great progress from the previous week. the 1 mins were fine as well, all at roughly 5k pace

Thurs 29th, Fri 30th, Sat 31st - 7m all on grass

Sun 1st - 16m steady, 2m WU/CD

A 20 miler was on the cards for the first time, but the pace was reasonably slow at 50' slower than MP. Had it planned at between 7.00 - 7.05 pace. Not saying that 6.10-6.15 was the MP but it seemed like a comfortable pace to go at. Had two other hobbyjoggers to go with which would help a lot. The pace itself was very comfortable, was able to have good conversations with the other 2 at that pace, which is always a good sign. Looking back, I did notice an usual pain in the achilles in the early steady miles, but it went away after 1 mile. Thought nothing of it, did come back for a small while but disappeared again. My legs did feel tired for the last 2-3 of those steady miles but it was the normal tiredness, no pain or anything like that.

Finished up the run, which was quite enjoyable, but wondered how I would cope the following week running 14m at MP. I didn't need to worry.

Right achilles was a bit stiff that day but thought it was just normal long run stiffness. Woke up the following day and it was super sore and tight. I was only able to walk around with a noticeable limp even after icing it quite a bit. Had booked Spike island with the family that day but didn't know how I would survive that. In fairness though, walking around for the day made it quite loose and not as painful. Booked the physio for the Tuesday and took another rest day. Physio gave some exercises to do and performed some dry needling which helped but did warn it will take 6-9 months to get the achilles right (well right in the physio's mind) but the good news was I could continue to run. It would be painful at the start, would then disappear but would be sore again afterwards. I could live with that

Wed 4th - 7m easy

So did the normal 7 miles here but not on grass, in case the uneven surface was contributing to the injury. First mile was really painful but it did start to ease off. Looking back now, it was still quite painful during the run, just not as painful as the 1st mile. Was this the way it was going to be?

Thurs 5th - 7m easy

Another 7 miles on concrete. This time the first 2 miles were painful, eased a very small bit but towards the end the pinch and soreness started to return. It was not pleasant or enjoyable - there was no way I was going to continue running if it was going to be like this. Could only imagine the damage I would have done for a long run or session. Made the decision to take a break until the achilles felt better. Kept the stretching, icing, heating exercises going all the while.

Tues 10th - 4m easy

So this is what it was meant to feel like. First mile had the small pinch and soreness, which then subsided for the reminding 3 miles. Felt so much better than last week but still didn't want to push any further distance wise. Can still feel the pinch during the run

Wed 11th - 4m easy

Same again today but maybe just a little bit more tiredness from the achilles as it is put under more stress. Getting better

Will do 5m easy tomorrow and Friday and reassess then. In terms of Manchester, I have written it off - too much catching up to do in order to get any type of goal time. Plus i would be risking going back too soon and probably getting injured again. That being said, if the recovery goes well I still might run it with the OH and maybe I can be of some use pacing her. Alternatively, I might scrap the race and maybe target a local 10 mile or HM around end of October. Again, it all depends on the recovery - want to take it slow.

I would now say this is the chance for all you runners that have experienced achilles tendonitis in the past to come forward with their advice. But with the ghost town that is the A/R forums these days, I'm probably just writing this update for my future self

AuldManKing · 12-08-2021 10:39am

Jaysus - 6-9 months to 'get right'

Never suffered from it myself but from listening to 'Inside Running' - Shoe Geeks - they often talk about the choice of shoe and the impact on those runners who have dodgy achilles - moreso in terms of running with no pain (but I know its not 'fixing' the issue).

I'd also start to question the cause of it - is there something further up the chain pulling at it or even pulling at something that pulls at it?

ariana` · 12-08-2021 10:58am

Seeing as you asked for advice! I've had on going Achilles issues since DCM 2018. Post marathon they were both really quite sore and swollen at the point of insertion. Both settled after a couple of weeks rest & maybe iced them occasionally. However ever since then the right one has caused trouble. Like your experience, it would be sore for the first 10-15mins of a run, after extended periods sitting, or first thing in the morning it was tight & painful until it warms up. Earlier this year joined a research study in UCD in relation to Achilles issues. Honestly I felt a bit of a fraud as it wasn't really impacting my day to day life in the sense that I've been running on it since 2018 & able to work/function day to day but the assessment did show a chronic issue so I was accepted. I had to follow the Alfredson Protocol, 2 exercises (eccentric heels drops) * 3 sets, twice a day for 12 weeks and track progress in an app. I was assessed regularly during the 12 weeks and at the mid point the improvement was significant. The final assessment showed that the right achilles is actually stronger than the left one now. So in a long winded way I'm saying that the Alfredson protocol seems to have worked for me. I still do the exercises but only 2-3 times per week now and I do them on both sides whereas during the study I only did the problematic right leg. I carried on running during the study but I did notice a lot of fatigue doing the heel drops on running days, sometimes it felt like I was going backwards and without commitment to the study I probably wouldn't have kept going. I know the Alfredson protocol gets mixed opinions online but my experience is fairly positive.

Treviso · 12-08-2021 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741621#Comment_117741621

I would imagine there is something amiss further up the body that might be elevating the recent issues. Something I need to investigate further with an osteopath. However, I've been so lucky with injuries since I start running without doing any sort of stretching, strengthening or additional work. It's more than likely that the intensity of the training finally caught up with me. Need to strengthen those muscles in order to get the training levels back to the same intensity.

Treviso · 12-08-2021 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741714#Comment_117741714

Thanks for taking the time to provide that information. I looked up Alfredson protocol and the exercises are exactly what I have been doing since the first physio visit. Confirmed with him today that he uses that treatment for these types of injuries. Glad to hear that it worked for you. I know it will be a long term fix but the fact that I can keep running with it is a big plus.

Treviso · 23-08-2021 9:20pm

Nice steady improvements in the running since the last update. It even managed to see through a week in Killarney, and all the extra family activities that that entails.

Thurs 12th - 5m easy (grass), 8:37avg

Increased the run to 5 miles, including the last mile barefoot - felt good but still had the pinch there

Fri 13th - 6m easy (grass), 8:16avg

Another mile increase, with another mile barefoot - increased average pace shows the improvement in the achilles

Sat 14th - 6m easy (grass), 8:14avg

Carbon copy of the previous day run. Did think of increasing it to 7 miles but achilles felt a bit tired (not as sore though). Drove down to Killarney with the family straight afterwards, back on the Friday.

Sun 15th - 7m moderate, 7:33avg

Don't think I updated the log with me having my first bit of alcohol in nearly a year at the end of July. Again, I never felt I was off the drink, just didn't have the opportunity! Anyway, I had quite a number of Killarney IPAs the previous evening - starting with the Liverpool Norwich game at 5.30pm. Was feeling a bit rough for this run but the achilles felt ok when I started the run. First time running properly in the Killarney National Park but was able to find a flattish route. I did plan on keeping the pace around 8 min/mile but thought to myself I could up the pace some bit and give the achilles a bit of a tester. I had a rest day the following day so felt it could recover then. Did a 6:56 and 7:06 before a slower cool down mile of 7:41 to finish the run off, was happy with it

Tues 17th - 7m easy, 8:22avg

Achilles was in good shape after the rest day, still that same pinching soreness but was easing off more during the run. Trying to get back to the full compliment of 4 easy runs at 7 miles

Wed 18th - 3m wu, 20' Tempo, 3m cd

Didn't plan on doing any sort of session this week but with the fast(ish) miles I ran on Sunday it was a natural progression to see how 20' would go. Planned to go between 6:30 and 6:40 for the tempo. As I didn't plan on the session, I didn't have my usual NEXT%s - had to make do with those crumby hill sprint shoes - VFs (😉 SwashBuckler). Started my usual too fast (at least injury hasn't stopped this habit) but it felt ok (ish). First mile was a 6:19, was definitely feeling the faster pace in the lungs but at least the achilles was ok. 2nd mile was more reasonable at 6:29 but the body was defo not used to it. Last mile & a bit came in around 6:40 which was a combination of struggling towards the end and making some uturns in the park after taking the wrong path. All in all, it was a successful session.

Thurs 19th - rest

After the session, my achilles was fine - just the usual tiredness. We had planned to bring the girls pony trekking that afternoon so thought I would get some relaxing time while they were doing that. Unfortunately, given the lack of guides at the pony trekking place, myself and OH had to lead our girls' ponies through the rocky, hilly parts of Killarney National Park for the best part of an hour (and pay for that privilege as well). I knew my achilles would be in bits afterwards and my limp returned straight afterwards. At least my kids enjoyed the experience.

So I decided to skip the run today and had a relaxing day instead (which worked a treat)

Fri 20th - 7m easy, 8:45avg

Was a quick recovery from that setback, which was unexpected and very welcomed. Did a 2 mile warmup with the OH, left her doing laps of a nearby GAA pitch and then met her on the way back. Legs felt quite good afterwards. And that was after packing up the car for the journey home too

Sat 21st - 7m easy (grass), 8:38

Ah the Farm, how I missed you. Did my normal 7 miles here but did 3 laps of the back field barefoot (about 1.8m). I know the coach doesn't like barefoot running (sorry Stazza 👋) but it does feel like it strengthens my feet when I do it and irons out any niggles with them as well

Sun 22nd - 3m wu, 20' tempo (5min rec), 10' tempo, 2m cd

Adding another 10' to the midweek session seems like nothing on paper but in my mind it was like an extra 10 miles! Again the plan was to go at 6:30 pace but as much as anything, I was going to go by feel. Never do that again! First mile was too fast, came in at 6:06 - needed to slow it down given the extra 10'. Second mile at 6:15 so still going faster than prescribed but felt it was a good effort. 3rd mile and I finally got the pace right, 6:28. Averaged about 6.18 for the 20'. Took a 2min from the 5 recovery as a walking recovery, to get my breath back - lungs definitely out of practice.

For the 10' tempo, It averaged at about 6.20 and felt great to complete a proper session. I could definitely feel that the achilles was getting more fatigued as it went on and I wasn't running as freely as I used to. Still though, it felt ok and was at a decent effort as well. Again, having a rest day on the Monday it should be good to go again.

Things are progressing well, this week I will do 2x20' at around the same pace as a midweek session and then will increase to a 40' tempo at the weekend (albeit at a slower pace). Have decided not to run the Manchester marathon at all, even at a slower pace. Like AMK, I will return to the 10k-10m base training and see if I can get to my pre Thoroughbred HM form. Will look to do some form of a race in Oct/Nov, before switching to a few 5k races in December. Will then begin a hopefully normal racing and injury free 2022

AuldManKing · 24-08-2021 9:41am

Will look to do some form of a race in Oct/Nov, before switching to a few 5k races in December. Will then begin a hopefully normal racing and injury free 2022

We'll do a couple of 5k races, realise just how bl00dy tough they are and then be scrambling to sign up for the next available Marathon!!

healy1835 · 24-08-2021 10:23am

5k's, 😯

Murph_D · 24-08-2021 10:25pm

@AuldManKing @healy1835 There’s a 2-mile race every Tuesday night in Raheny for the next four weeks. Open to all. Just sayin’ 😉

AuldManKing · 25-08-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799569#Comment_117799569

Tuesday night?? ah no - I'm doing my tan those nights.

Treviso · 01-09-2021 9:34pm

Another week (and a bit) gone by and I'm beginning to get back to my usual self. Strength in the achilles seems to be returning, which is allowing me to up the pace a bit

Tues 24th - 7m easy, 8:28avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Wed 25th - 2x20' tempo, 5 min rec. 3m WU, 2m CD

Mixed bag for this run. With the OH back to school but my two kids not returning until Thursday, had to leave this run until 3pm. Was a bit tired heading out for it and it was super hot as well, so wasn't feeling confident. Good news was the achilles wasn't feeling too bad during the warmup. Tempo was meant to be at 10 mile effort. I had targeted 6.20ish as this was the pace I ran at the weekend. With the hot weather, I was happy to drop the pace once the effort was ok. First tempo went to plan and averaged 6.25ish - effort was definitely there. Took a walking recovery for the first 2 minutes and could feel the achilles was quite tender. Started a slow jog and noticed that I was carrying that side a bit more than normal. Could've called it there but decided to see how it was for the second tempo. It was only about mile back to the car so gave me an easy out! Started the second tempo and whilst I could keep the pace and effort, I was definitely not running as I would normally. Decided to quickly to call the tempo once I reached the car. Changed shoes and was able to do a 2 mile cooldown. Disappointed not to finish the session but made the right call. Preferred to be able to run the following day

Thurs 26th - 7m easy, 8:34avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Achilles was quite good despite yesterdays session

Fri 27th - 7m easy, 8:30avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Sat 28th - 7m easy, 8:33avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

All similar runs, a bit of deja-vue going on but really good for the legs and feet. Running in the same place in loops doesn't bother me in the slightest

Sun 29th - 40' tempo, 2m WU 4m CD

Plan called for 40' at marathon pace, no idea what that is at the moment. A few of the Cork lads were doing their long marathon runs that morning so had a number of options of pace to go with (6.20, 6.35 or 6.50). Decided that 6.35 would be the best choice. Good to be back running with them, even though I only had 6 miles and they had 18! Been getting a stitch in my side for the past week early in all my runs and it was the same here during the warmup. Not too concerned with it but it's the first time it has happened to me this often. Anyway, that went away and we were onto the tempo miles. First mile was ok but must admit I struggled during the 2nd and 3rd miles (which on hindsight were faster than prescribed). Gradually though I started to feel more comfortable as the miles ticked on - which was a great sign. Wish my colleague the best of luck for the rest of his miles as I finished up with an average of 6:31 for the tempo. Another good step forward. Did 4 miles cooldown to up the overall mileage of the run

Tues 31st - 7m easy, 8:25avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

A new week and some more cause for optimism. Achilles pain/pinch has been subsiding all weekend to the point where I've been walking around during the day without noticing anything. Still bit of a pinch when running but that will hopefully go soon as well

Wed 1st - 20'@6:05, 5min rec, 15'@6:05 20' wu/cd

Was unsure when I saw the training plan on Sunday if this pace was possible for a 20' and 15' session. Last week's struggles to hit 6:25 was playing on my mind. I was feeling stronger though so trusted in the process and see how it would go. After spending the 20' warmup trying to decide on the route, settled on running the first mile into the wind and then turn to get the majority of the rest with a tailwind. Wind was quite strong so expected the first mile to be quite slow - also did want to push too much and gas myself too early. Early in that mile the pace was around 6:15 but to my surprise started to drift down towards the target pace. At the turn I focussed on recovering a bit while maintaining the pace, to keep something in reserve for the second tempo. Got the next two miles done, albeit slower than target, so put in a bit more effort for the last 90 secs (5:43) - good to see I can still run that quickly! Took another 2 minute walking recovery, finding that my lungs are still struggling to catchup to the increased pace. Jogged the rest of the recovery and was fully recovered starting the next tempo. This tempo would be done around a short loop so no escaping the wind really. First mile in was on pace but second was a struggle into the wind. Managed to claw it back for the final half mile though. Tempos both averaged around the 6:08 mark, which I was delighted with. First time in ages where I could feel a bit of power returning to the legs.

Delighted with the progress but still want to keep the recovery steady. In saying that, some extra entries were released for the Charleville HM end of September and I was "lucky" enough to get one. I know, I know, it's less than 3 weeks away and I'm just back from injury. Gonna be sensible with the target for it. Im due to run 8 miles at the weekend and 10 the follow week (I presume). Whatever pace I'm able to run that 10m at in 2 weeks time will be the target pace - think that should be sensible enough as long that I keep to that

Treviso · 12-09-2021 9:38pm

Since the last update, it's been a week and a half of the same old runs and routines, which is fantastic news. Easy runs were all done on grass, with 1.8m barefoot. Seems to be really strengthening the feet. Midweek sessions and weekend long runs are similar, but with the paces and/or times increasing.

Thurs 2nd - 7m easy, 8:15avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Fri 3rd - 7m easy, 8:36avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Sat 4th - 7m easy, 8:30avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Sun 5th - 50'@6.25, 30' wu/cd

An extra ten minutes from last week and 10 second increase in pace. After the midweek 6.05 pace, I was confident going into this one. Unfortunately didn't have anyone to run with so it ended up being tougher. After the first four miles into the wind, was maintaining a 6.29 average so knew I had to make some time up on the way back. Wasn't able to push on that much and the achilles was more noticeable than usual. Didn't have the same strength as last week. Still managed to reel it into a 6.26avg and took a suffering decision to run over a steep footbridge in the last minute - so it must not have been too bad

Tues 7th - 7m easy, 8:24avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Wed 8th - 2x20'@6.05, 5min rec, 20' wu/cd

Same session as last week but an extra 5 minutes tagged on. Picked the same route. It was really humid, was sweating loads during the warmup. Said to myself that 6.15 should be goal given the conditions. First tempo and first mile comes in at 6.02 into the wind - go figure. Anyway, was feeling ok so kept it to the 6.05 for that tempo. Legs were feeling that effort during the 5 minute recovery. Struggled to get going again and when I did the pace was around the 6.17 mark. Was determine to get through no matter what the pace was going to be. The effort levels were high as I managed to complete it in 6.18. Was happy with the session

Thur 9th - 7m easy, 8:24avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Fri 10th - 7m easy, 8:32avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot

Sat 11th - 7m easy, 8:25avg (grass) 1.8m barefoot Was circling around the farm in the middle of Leevale doing a bit of a speed session. Made me increase my speed subconsciously as they passed me

Sun 12th - 60'@6.20, 2m wu/40' cd

Plan was originally 60'@6.25 but a few of my running mates were down to do 6.20 mile sessions. Decided it'd be a good idea to go with them and give the fitness a bit of a test. Ended up being three of us running together (well for a mile anyway). After a 2 mile warmup, off we went on the tempo miles. After a comfortable first mile, the 2nd mile felt tough and I drifted off the back of the two lads already. Didn't panic as I was going faster than prescribed, around the 6.15 mark. The next couple of miles were me off the back but the gap remained constant. Next mile and I started to pull them back a bit and was feeling quite good. Breathing was relaxed and no ill effects from the achilles. With a few of miles to go though, my legs were feeling quite fatigued - the nice horrible feeling when you know you're putting in a good effort. The run was starting to catch up on them and the pace slowed a notch. Still I was able to grind them out to finish with a 6.19 average - job done. With a shorter warmup, I decided to do a 40' even though I was wrecked. Needed to run away from the car as far as possible so I wouldn't cut it short. It was torture but got it done.

56 miles for the week.

So running those 10 miles at 6.20 will now make that the target pace for Charleville Hm in 2 weeks. Hopefully the taper, improving fitness and race adrenaline will get me through the last 3 miles.

Treviso · 31-12-2021 5:58pm

Wow, still on the second page of the training logs. Good to see that the traffic to the A/R forum has increased, prompting me to revive this log. Three major factors caused me to stop updating it to be honest. Firstly, the update to the forum was horrendous and the way they moved all data to Canada (and US) had me questioning how secure this site would be in the future. I seriously considered a GDPR deletion request at one point. Secondly, the forum seemed to be dead - that caused me to question why I am updating a log that no one will read (they probably still wont read now 😁). Lastly, my running was being constantly interrupted with injuries and niggles - we all know when running isn't going to plan, you tend to keep away from all aspects of running related material - or maybe thats just me. So I've neglected Boards, Strava, race results for the past few months.

Maybe it's down to the recent activity in the forum, or my running is getting back on track but I will try to keep the updates going here and also start contributing to other logs as well. I've always felt like a newcomer running wise in the past, so didn't voice my opinions as much as I would've liked. Now, with improvements in running and the experience with injuries, nothing should be holding me back

Quick update since the last entry. I did the Charleville HM in 84mins end of Sept in windy conditions, which I was happy with given my achilles issues earlier. Had a good month's training in October until I started to get pain in my groin/glute, which prompted a visit to a recommended physio. It was with him where the issue with the alignment in my spine was discovered. My right vertebrae was significantly higher than the left, which was pulling on all the muscles on the right hand side of my body. That was the cause of my earlier problems with my achilles, and also the more recent groin/glute issues. After massaging the area for quite a while, I was doubting if it was going to help at all. But he then contorted my body, folded me like an accordion and made my back crack about twenty times. He then worked on the groin area, which was seriously painful, but it worked wonders. I was back running after 2 days - miracle man!

Built up again in November and set my mind to the upcoming 5ks in December (discarding the races I'd booked for November). Had Newmarket as my target race, with Togher shortly afterwards. Did my 2nd ever parkrun in 18.26 as a bit of a rustbuster in the middle of the month, so I was optimistic of the upcoming races. Following week though, the stiffness on my lower back returned after a session. I was able to run easy but it felt like I had a pole stuck up my ar$e as I ran. Not able for any speed work at all. Went back to the miracle worker and the misalignment had returned, but not as bad as before. Only about 5 cracks were needed this time!

Had to build up again but Newmarket was only 2 weeks away. Was advised by the coach to give it a miss but was determined to get to the start line as I've missed so many races this year already. I also feel that I can bluff a 5k when it comes to fitness - if it was a 10 miler, I would've missed it. Did some short speed work in the 2 weeks leading up to the 5k which went well. I felt I was in or around 18min shape if things went well (around 5.45 avg pace). On the day itself, things worked out. Course was good (very similar to Jingle Bells by all accounts, except start in Newmarket is where the downhill is), weather conditions ideal and the quality of the field was exceptional. Got a PB of 17.32 which I was delighted with - race went according to plan. Even with that time, I only finished 81st - showed how good the field was. Was going to race Togher 5k as well but felt it would be better to get a block of training in before Dungarvan 10 in February. That's the focus distance for the next few months, with Dungarvan 10 and Adare 10k in February, Mallow 10 in March. A HM will be done around June (probably Cork) and then focus on DCM22.

Thats if everything goes well injury wise. I'm still apprehensive about my back and that injury reoccurring, it's holding me back some bit. I've book a FCE scan next week to get my back, hips, glutes, legs scanned to see if the root of the issue can be discovered. They will provide rehab if an issue is discovered but I will go to an osteopath if I need further work done. All in all, looking forward to getting back into the tough sessions again next week.

What do you mean I'm too late for the A/R awards - why did I write this essay of an update for 🤣

Treviso · 03-01-2022 5:31pm

Bit of a reality check this week after the high of that 5k time in Newmarket. Maybe it was the hectic festive period, loads of junk eaten or just general tiredness after a full weeks training, but the Sunday session was a lot tougher than I expected. Still got a good week's training in

By taking Christmas day as a rest day, I ended up switching my normal rest day from Monday to Thursday - like most people, I didn't know what day of the week it was between Christmas day and New years. Monday and Tuesday were a normal easy 7m between 8.15 & 8.30 pace. Wednesday's session went quite well

8x2' on/off, 8x1' on/off - Normally this would 10x reps but was given 8x just to ease myself back in. Have no idea what target paces should be so went with feel somewhat and started off conservatively. Started off around the 6min/mile pace for the first couple of 2 mins and ended up around 5.50 for the rest. Wind was a small bit of a factor for the 1 min reps but I was more focussed on effort than pace. By the end of the session, I felt I had a few more reps in me so I guess I judged everything nicely. 12 miles in total

Easy days are increasing from 7m to 65' so will be around the 8m mark instead. Didn't want to do 65' for all easy days this week, will gradually increase them. It's amazing how mentally tough it is to increase these runs by just 1 mile, seems like a lot more effort than it actually is. Will get used to it I guess, was the same when I went from 6m to 7m. So rest day on Thursday, following by 8 miles easy on Friday and back to 7 miles on Saturdays. Sunday was the normal session day

30' tempo, (5min rec), 8x45" (75" rec), 25-30' wu/cd - So as I said above, struggled a lot more on this than I should have. Legs were feeling tired during the warmup but they would normally snap out of it during the session itself. Target for the 30' was meant to be a progression run, starting at 6.30 pace and going to 6.10 maybe, but the wind prevented this from happening. First mile into the wind and it felt grand - going out too fast but settled into a 6.25 pace eventually - going to be a piece of cake I said to myself. Second mile had the wind and ended with another 6.25 mile, but probably faster due to the poor gps in that section. Third mile is where the legs started to fill with lactate, it was not nice to experience that feeling again! Most people hate the puke/metal burn of a 5k run. For me, the lactate fill/burn of the legs when you've another 5 miles to complete is a lot worse. The third mile was 6.09, which may have explained the lactate filling, but it was with the wind on a fast straight section of the walkway. Fourth mile was a lot more painful, legs had the lead feeling again and was against the wind for most of it. Managed to keep it to a 6.23 so not too shabby. Last 5 mins into the wind was damage limitation - was on the same sort of pace but had to stop to talk to a buddy that I hadn't seen in ages (I was delighted to be able to stop early!). Once I stopped chatting, finished out the last minute or so pain free 😀

The 8x45" were again done to feel, on tired creaky legs but happy how they went. Finished out the cooldown quite tired and glad it was over. Over 13 miles in total

Looking back, did a full week's training, with 2 sessions of higher than recent mileage, it's normal that the legs were feeling fatigued. Next week's training will see another gradual increase in mileage and intensity so I'm moving in the right direction. Also have the FCE scan on Wednesday, very interested to see what comes back. Not sure if I want them to find something or not!

Spiral out - keep going

Comments