Hurling- what’s gone wrong and where do we go from here.

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

There was a bit of ground hurling in the 02 final which was on Eir tonight. Nowadays when there’s a stalemate on the ground you just get a ruck, no one ever pulls on it, because given the ease in getting scores, possession totally trumps territory. You can’t risk pulling on it cos possession could be lost. The fact that there are heaps of rucks is an unfortunate side effect.

And why would anyone pull on it when you know the outcome is negative. Its no longer a game driven by pure wild passion. Its a lot more considered and no amount of rule changes will change that.

Rosita wrote: »

So you reckon Kilkenny 2006/07 would be destroyed by the average county team now?

Playing those tactics against a team like Limerick now would play into their hands. No doubt KK had the superior hurlers but a system like that will negate how good the opposition are. Plus they're bigger and physically fitter. That should never be underestimated.

randd1 wrote: »

- Increase weight of the sliothar by 33%.
- Remove sin bin, instead have a rule to give a penalty for pulls down within 30 yards of the goal.
- Where the hand pass comes from the ball released from the hand, the receiving player can’t catch it. All other forms of passing are ok.
- 40 seconds to take a dead ball
- 6 subs allowed, but no more than 4 a half
- No subs allowed after time moves into injury time
- Reduce and standardize the size of the bás. Any player found in breach received an immediate 2 match ban.

Worth trying out I reckon.

I like that idea.

RedRochey wrote: »

Why do people hate the yellow sliothar so much?

Cause they were not that colour when we were youngins

threeball wrote: »

Hang on, there's been numerous references to sliothars being much heavier in the past and ground hurling which hasn't been a factor in the game since the mid eighties so no its not me bringing it up. The game is evolving, its in a good place apart from the rules that aren't enforced. That's where the conversation should start, not bringing in new rules.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/i4xicuecdjcyj3bgb52f.pdf


"The bas of a hurley at its widest point shall not be more than 13cm"


Here's the Tipp team of 2001 - no frying pan sized hurleys there:




There isn't a single hurley in the country that meets that definition. That's one of the biggest issues. The big bas is much more forgiving for a first touch. It has a much bigger sweet spot which combined with the lighter sliotar with the shaved down rim makes points from 90 metres commonplace. It facilitates a game where the ball is carried rather than propelled. Hurling now is essentially a different sport than the game of the 90s. Senior players, men of 6 foot 2 are now using 32" or 34" hurleys - this would have been the size associated with 15 year olds in the past. This has had a significant impact on the amount of ground hurling - that and the obsession with tactics, retaining possession and elimination of risk.New rules aren't needed here - just apply the current rules! Hurling at it's essence was a chaotic sport, littered with man on man clashes, excitement the norm, rather than the exception. Watching a top level game was exhausting, never mind play it. Hurling, unlike Gaelic football, was also a game where you didn't have to be 6 foot plus to make the grade



While hurling is still a game laced with high skill levels - hooks, blocks fantastic scores, etc.The players' fitness levels and physical conditioning have never been greater and the dedication of the players is exemplary. The constant scrums and rucks are a blight on the game as is the spare hand tackle. I don't believe teams should be regularly scoring 30 points in a game. Even the much celebrated points from line balls are becoming so commonplace and they'll be the expectation going forward.


Hurling is still an amazing game but the GAA need to decide what they want it to be - a high scoring shootout where teams play the ball up the field o
in a series of short passes (almost rugby league like) until the player reaches the "scoring zone" (which these days is probably his own half back line) and takes their shot? Do they which the determining factor in which team wins is the relative accuracy of the freetakers and the overall level of wides? Do they want to continually sanitise and productise the sport or can they see any way where they can marry the high skill and fitness levels of today's elite players and return to the traditional elements of hurling which involved uncertainty, "mano a mano" clashes, controversy and still had great skill.


Hurling is still a great sport to watch but I think that there is an increasing belief that the direction which is going is taking the sport away from some of the traditional (and tradition shouldn't be a dirty word) aspects and we may be approaching a crossroads where the GAA will need to decide what they want from our national game

leath_dub wrote: »

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/i4xicuecdjcyj3bgb52f.pdf


"The bas of a hurley at its widest point shall not be more than 13cm"


Here's the Tipp team of 2001 - no frying pan sized hurleys there:




There isn't a single hurley in the country that meets that definition. That's one of the biggest issues. The big bas is much more forgiving for a first touch. It has a much bigger sweet spot which combined with the lighter sliotar with the shaved down rim makes points from 90 metres commonplace. It facilitates a game where the ball is carried rather than propelled. Hurling now is essentially a different sport than the game of the 90s. Senior players, men of 6 foot 2 are now using 32" or 34" hurleys - this would have been the size associated with 15 year olds in the past. This has had a significant impact on the amount of ground hurling - that and the obsession with tactics, retaining possession and elimination of risk.New rules aren't needed here - just apply the current rules! Hurling at it's essence was a chaotic sport, littered with man on man clashes, excitement the norm, rather than the exception. Watching a top level game was exhausting, never mind play it. Hurling, unlike Gaelic football, was also a game where you didn't have to be 6 foot plus to make the grade



While hurling is still a game laced with high skill levels - hooks, blocks fantastic scores, etc.The players' fitness levels and physical conditioning have never been greater and the dedication of the players is exemplary. The constant scrums and rucks are a blight on the game as is the spare hand tackle. I don't believe teams should be regularly scoring 30 points in a game. Even the much celebrated points from line balls are becoming so commonplace and they'll be the expectation going forward.


Hurling is still an amazing game but the GAA need to decide what they want it to be - a high scoring shootout where teams play the ball up the field o
in a series of short passes (almost rugby league like) until the player reaches the "scoring zone" (which these days is probably his own half back line) and takes their shot? Do they which the determining factor in which team wins is the relative accuracy of the freetakers and the overall level of wides? Do they want to continually sanitise and productise the sport or can they see any way where they can marry the high skill and fitness levels of today's elite players and return to the traditional elements of hurling which involved uncertainty, "mano a mano" clashes, controversy and still had great skill.


Hurling is still a great sport to watch but I think that there is an increasing belief that the direction which is going is taking the sport away from some of the traditional (and tradition shouldn't be a dirty word) aspects and we may be approaching a crossroads where the GAA will need to decide what they want from our national game

A lot of this is fair enough but your point that there's no need for new rules just application of the existing ones doesn't really show how many of the issues you mention will be addressed. It does seem like a lot of it needs some rules involvement.

leath_dub wrote: »

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/i4xicuecdjcyj3bgb52f.pdf


"The bas of a hurley at its widest point shall not be more than 13cm"


Here's the Tipp team of 2001 - no frying pan sized hurleys there:




There isn't a single hurley in the country that meets that definition. That's one of the biggest issues. The big bas is much more forgiving for a first touch. It has a much bigger sweet spot which combined with the lighter sliotar with the shaved down rim makes points from 90 metres commonplace. It facilitates a game where the ball is carried rather than propelled. Hurling now is essentially a different sport than the game of the 90s. Senior players, men of 6 foot 2 are now using 32" or 34" hurleys - this would have been the size associated with 15 year olds in the past. This has had a significant impact on the amount of ground hurling - that and the obsession with tactics, retaining possession and elimination of risk.New rules aren't needed here - just apply the current rules! Hurling at it's essence was a chaotic sport, littered with man on man clashes, excitement the norm, rather than the exception. Watching a top level game was exhausting, never mind play it. Hurling, unlike Gaelic football, was also a game where you didn't have to be 6 foot plus to make the grade



While hurling is still a game laced with high skill levels - hooks, blocks fantastic scores, etc.The players' fitness levels and physical conditioning have never been greater and the dedication of the players is exemplary. The constant scrums and rucks are a blight on the game as is the spare hand tackle. I don't believe teams should be regularly scoring 30 points in a game. Even the much celebrated points from line balls are becoming so commonplace and they'll be the expectation going forward.


Hurling is still an amazing game but the GAA need to decide what they want it to be - a high scoring shootout where teams play the ball up the field o
in a series of short passes (almost rugby league like) until the player reaches the "scoring zone" (which these days is probably his own half back line) and takes their shot? Do they which the determining factor in which team wins is the relative accuracy of the freetakers and the overall level of wides? Do they want to continually sanitise and productise the sport or can they see any way where they can marry the high skill and fitness levels of today's elite players and return to the traditional elements of hurling which involved uncertainty, "mano a mano" clashes, controversy and still had great skill.


Hurling is still a great sport to watch but I think that there is an increasing belief that the direction which is going is taking the sport away from some of the traditional (and tradition shouldn't be a dirty word) aspects and we may be approaching a crossroads where the GAA will need to decide what they want from our national game

For the record I have no issue with changing the core of the ball or with regulating bas size, I've had numerous posts on boards about that subject. I do however object to rule changes trying to curb the evolution of the game.

A heavier sliothar is dangerous and shouldn't be considered but a less "bouncy" core is acceptable and the bás is just another rule thats ignored which is the issue in the first place.

Just one query on this - whats the implications of increasing the weight of the sliotar. I coach at underage - am no expert on the game, but I do have to implement any new rules as they come in - and I'd just wonder about the transition for kids when they move to the heavier ball, as they currently do at around age 14 I think.

How would that be for catching for example in terms of impact.

As an aside - a lot of people talk about GAA as if it only exists in the little prism of the top 6 championship teams. In fact thats just a tiny part of it, and I'd question whether any rules should be changed because of tactics issues that have emerged with just that tiny slice of the playing population.

Is it too much to ask that managers find a way to counter it?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

As an aside - a lot of people talk about GAA as if it only exists in the little prism of the top 6 championship teams. In fact thats just a tiny part of it, and I'd question whether any rules should be changed because of tactics issues that have emerged with just that tiny slice of the playing population.

Is it too much to ask that managers find a way to counter it?

Sometimes, yes, it is not possible to deal with issues which emerge through managers finding a way to counter it. Hence, the sin bin and black card solutions in the GAA, one player in goal for penalties etc. It's okay to change.

And realistically it's always the best teams and players which drive rule changes and trends. With due respect to the Naomh Mearnóg or Dicksboro under 12s, they are not really in a position to be influencers, and given that many will drop out of the game early anyway it's maybe just as well.

What you say is superficially attractive as it makes an argument for the 'small guy' but doesn't stack up unfortunately.