What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

is_that_so · 29-05-2021 04:53PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

You simply don't know that.

Too few second doses have been administered to younger women to state this with any certainty.

And we will not get to that level of data either as the usage of AZ is coming to an end after the current second doses.

Enzokk · 03-06-2021 04:03PM

This seems not great for AZ and new variants,

Prof Kingston Mills said that NIAC's recommendation to reduce the gap between doses from 12 weeks to eight comes after studies in the UK showed that a single dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine was "not really going to prevent infection or even disease" from the Delta variant of the virus.

He said that this is now the predominant variant in the UK and increasing numbers have been detected in Ireland, rising from 97 to 150 and it could be higher.

Prof Mills said that there are moves to give a second dose of Pfizer to the under 50s who were vaccinated with AstraZeneca first time, but no mention of doing this for the over 60s or over 70s.

Prof Mills said "in my estimation this is the group who should get a booster with Pfizer as they are a high-risk group and should be given the best vaccine".

HSE working on NIAC advice in relation to AstraZeneca vaccine

Wolf359f · 03-06-2021 04:48PM

Enzokk wrote: »

This seems not great for AZ and new variants,

HSE working on NIAC advice in relation to AstraZeneca vaccine

It's not even confirmed that we have 150 cases of the Indian variant. I didn't quite catch it at the last press conference, but the way the sequencing works they are still confirming the previous 2 weeks, so I think any increase would be spread out over a 2 week period.

But taking it as 50 in a week, it accounts for less than 2% of all cases so far in a week. We also only have or will only have 15% of the adult population vaccinated with AZ, so they will gain protection from the other 85% who will be vaccinated with mRNA/J&J. In the UK, AZ currently accounts for 63% of their vaccine rollout.

Moyglish · 05-06-2021 11:36AM

It's almost 9 weeks ago now since I had my first shot of AZ.

With the recent announcement that they are going to minimise the waiting period between doses from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, does this mean that I am likely to get my second shot before my 12 weeks are up?

How likely is it that the HSE will adopt a mix and match policy and offer alternatives to AZ for those due their second vaccine?

astrofool · 05-06-2021 01:21PM

Moyglish wrote: »

It's almost 9 weeks ago now since I had my first shot of AZ.

With the recent announcement that they are going to minimise the waiting period between doses from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, does this mean that I am likely to get my second shot before my 12 weeks are up?

You might get a shot quicker but there's still logistics to put in place for it to happen so will probably end up on the 12 week schedule.

The reason they are looking at bringing it in to 8 weeks is to enhance the protection against some of the variants (and allow those with AZ to take advantage of the "vaccine bonus" which is a political construct and not really science based given when it kicks in), I do not believe that it's because 8 weeks is when the greatest protection is offered. The other important thing to remember is that the vaccine will be protecting against severe symptoms a a much higher % than the efficacy rate, this is important as it's what protects you against death, the news headlines aren't really going with those numbers, for whatever reason.

Moyglish wrote: »

How likely is it that the HSE will adopt a mix and match policy and offer alternatives to AZ for those due their second vaccine?

Probably unlikely for those already vaccinated, could definitely see booster variance.

ddarcy · 05-06-2021 01:37PM

Moyglish wrote: »

It's almost 9 weeks ago now since I had my first shot of AZ.

With the recent announcement that they are going to minimise the waiting period between doses from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, does this mean that I am likely to get my second shot before my 12 weeks are up?

How likely is it that the HSE will adopt a mix and match policy and offer alternatives to AZ for those due their second vaccine?

They said yesterday that they would start from the people at 12 weeks and gradually being it down. They are still vaccinating HCWs who has theirs pushed out to 16 weeks and brought down to 12 weeks. There is a massive delivery expected in a couple of weeks (21st of June) so you will probably get offered it around then. I think this is all for show, they just don’t have the vaccines yet so if you are above 8 weeks currently, you’ll probably have to wait the full 12 weeks to get it.

On the second dose being mRNA, two studies show this is better combination to get, but our politicians won’t want to lose those 500k doses when they can go to the unvaccinated, remember it’s all about numbers right now to make themselves look good and this will slow down rollout by a few weeks. So very unlikely unless there is a mass boycott of people refusing to take AZ as a second dose. You’ll notice the media is very quiet about reporting the results from Spain and the UK as I believe people would boycott the dose if they talked about it.

Dyr · 05-06-2021 03:32PM

ddarcy wrote: »

. You’ll notice the media is very quiet about reporting the results from Spain and the UK as I believe people would boycott the dose if they talked about it.

But you're free to report the results, so fire away.

ddarcy · 05-06-2021 03:54PM

Bambi wrote: »

But you're free to report the results, so fire away.

The Combivacs study, run by Spain's state-backed Carlos III Health Institute, found the presence of IgG antibodies in the bloodstream was between 30 and 40 times higher in people who got the follow-up Pfizer shot than in a control group who only received one AstraZeneca dose.

Meanwhile, the presence of neutralising antibodies rose sevenfold after a Pfizer dose, significantly more than the doubling effect observed after a second AstraZeneca shot.

[url] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/spanish-study-finds-astrazeneca-vaccine-followed-by-pfizer-dose-is-safe-2021-05-18/[/url]

Nothing on RTE other than mixing doses is not recommended. Other Irish outlets just talk about side effects from the studies, but don’t bring up the results.

is_that_so · 06-06-2021 08:23AM

ddarcy wrote: »

[url] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/spanish-study-finds-astrazeneca-vaccine-followed-by-pfizer-dose-is-safe-2021-05-18/[/url]

Nothing on RTE other than mixing doses is not recommended. Other Irish outlets just talk about side effects from the studies, but don’t bring up the results.

And there won't be any unless NIAC recommend a change. That mixed approach is still at what is effectively a clinical trial stage. AZ for us is basically for second doses and it will likely cease to be part of our programme over the next two months.

deeperlearning · 08-06-2021 10:24PM

The UK's daily cases per 100,000 are now twice that of countries such as Germany, Italy, Canada and the United States.

Is this showing up an inherent weakness in the AstraZeneca vaccine (predominant vaccine in the UK) compared to mRNA vaccines which have been predominant elsewhere.

Stark · 08-06-2021 10:45PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

The UK's daily cases per 100,000 are now twice that of countries such as Germany, Italy, Canada and the United States.

Is this showing up an inherent weakness in the AstraZeneca vaccine (predominant used in the UK) compared to mRNA vaccines which have been predominant in Germany, Italy, Canada and the United States.

No it's to do with combination of Covid Delta and UK being further along in lockdown easing than the other countries.

robinph · 08-06-2021 11:05PM

Stark wrote: »

No it's to do with combination of Covid Delta and UK being further along in lockdown easing than the other countries.

Yup. Whilst there is around 60% of those vaccinated so far who have had AstraZenica rather than any of the others, and that ratio is actually reducing with the current rollout, there is still minimal people who have had any versions of vaccine who are ending up in hospital in the UK.

Cases are rising amongst the younger unvaccinated and those who are older and skipped the vaccine are ending up in hospital. But hospital numbers are not rising massively as those presenting are younger and healthier than people who were turning up at hospital in previous waves.

ddarcy · 09-06-2021 01:05PM

Another study showing AZ followed by Pfizer gives the best response. That’s 3 studies now showing this. But I see the government and NIAC kicking the can down the road to have everyone given 2 doses of AZ instead of following what other countries are doing, and being proven right to do, and give Pfizer as the second dose. Especially as it’s mostly high risk and front line workers who got this vaccine. You’d think there would be long term thinking…

[url] https://innovationorigins.com/en/vaccine-study-best-immune-response-with-combination-of-astrazeneca-and-biontech/[\url][/url]

astrofool · 09-06-2021 02:00PM

ddarcy wrote: »

Another study showing AZ followed by Pfizer gives the best response. That’s 3 studies now showing this. But I see the government and NIAC kicking the can down the road to have everyone given 2 doses of AZ instead of following what other countries are doing, and being proven right to do, and give Pfizer as the second dose. Especially as it’s mostly high risk and front line workers who got this vaccine. You’d think there would be long term thinking…

[url] https://innovationorigins.com/en/vaccine-study-best-immune-response-with-combination-of-astrazeneca-and-biontech/[\url][/url]

a) that study is still not completed, it would be akin to rolling out vaccines while they were in the middle of phase 3 trials
b) there is no great concerns about a 2 dose AZ vaccine course against the variants right now
c) any boosters are highly likely to be mRNA or protein based vaccines which will have gone through the trials by the time they are given
d) given supply, every dose of Pfizer given to someone who got AZ is one less Pfizer vaccine for someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet who is unlikely to be able to use AZ, it won't be until July/August that there will be any flexibility to start mixing doses, hopefully based on a full set of results

ddarcy · 09-06-2021 03:11PM

astrofool wrote: »

d) given supply, every dose of Pfizer given to someone who got AZ is one less Pfizer vaccine for someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet who is unlikely to be able to use AZ, it won't be until July/August that there will be any flexibility to start mixing doses, hopefully based on a full set of results

Don’t get me wrong this is exactly why they won’t do it. If they kick the can out for another 3-4 weeks everyone who chooses to get the service jab will have gotten it. So by delaying they are ensuring Pfizer isn’t used for the group. In time we’ll see if this is a mistake or if they get away with it.

Given what is going on with the US submission, I think it’s a mistake. The FDA is much more rigorous than the EMA and they definitely see something they don’t like.

deeperlearning · 09-06-2021 10:24PM

It's crazy to leave Cohort 4, who are medically most vulnerable, as well as the over 60s on AstraZeneca vaccines.

These are the cohorts who need good protections. Following an AZ with a Pfizer would have given these cohorts fantastic immunity.

09-06-2021 10:30PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

It's crazy to leave Cohort 4, who are medically most vulnerable, as well as the over 60s on AstraZeneca vaccines.

These are the cohorts who need good protections. Following an AZ with a Pfizer would have given these cohorts fantastic immunity.

Everyone who has had a second dose has fantastic immunity as seen be the case numbers in the older age groups.

12 months ago the talk was about getting vaccines as effective as the flu vaccine. The worst of the vaccines in use in Ireland is far more effective at preventing illness against the most challenging variant than any flu vaccine is against influenza. Not to mention the exceptional effectiveness against severe disease

volchitsa · 09-06-2021 10:31PM

astrofool wrote: »

a) that study is still not completed, it would be akin to rolling out vaccines while they were in the middle of phase 3 trials
b) there is no great concerns about a 2 dose AZ vaccine course against the variants right now
c) any boosters are highly likely to be mRNA or protein based vaccines which will have gone through the trials by the time they are given
d) given supply, every dose of Pfizer given to someone who got AZ is one less Pfizer vaccine for someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet who is unlikely to be able to use AZ, it won't be until July/August that there will be any flexibility to start mixing doses, hopefully based on a full set of results

Plus we're prohably all going to need boosters in 6 months to a year. I've had 2 doses of Astra Zeneca and am thoroughly grateful for that, and I'll probably ask for a different one as a booster. Not because I'm unhappy with AZ, but because it seems logical to me that getting a full dose of one vaccine (ie two jabs) and then mixing it up with a different vaccine when the time comes round for a booster is intuitively the best of all.

is_that_so · 10-06-2021 08:37AM

volchitsa wrote: »

Plus we're prohably all going to need boosters in 6 months to a year. I've had 2 doses of Astra Zeneca and am thoroughly grateful for that, and I'll probably ask for a different one as a booster. Not because I'm unhappy with AZ, but because it seems logical to me that getting a full dose of one vaccine (ie two jabs) and then mixing it up with a different vaccine when the time comes round for a booster is intuitively the best of all.

The need for boosters is open to debate, certain groups may anyway. For now it's just planning for them.

volchitsa · 10-06-2021 08:43AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The need for boosters is open to debate, certain groups may anyway. For now it's just planning for them.

Have there been any suggestions that boosters won't be necessary? I thought that was pretty much a given, especially with the way the virus seems to be mutating constantly.

Wompa1 · 10-06-2021 11:47AM

Am I wrong in thinking the UK study from a couple of weeks ago stated that the level of protection from 2 doses of AstraZeneca was close in efficacy to 2 doses of Pfizer but a single dose was relatively low in efficacy which is what was behind the rush to get the 2nd doses administered.

Seems on here some reckon AZ is useless but that doesn't seem to be what was reported in the UK study.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 10-06-2021 12:19PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Have there been any suggestions that boosters won't be necessary? I thought that was pretty much a given, especially with the way the virus seems to be mutating constantly.

Most likely the boosters won't be the same as the original vaccine.

They are likely to be optimised for variants and possibly completely different vaccines.

What's the supply system looking like for second generation Vaccines?

The most optimistic suggestions for boosters have been that it will be necessary in 3-5 years for the majority but the vulnerable will receive a booster for prior to that.

10-06-2021 12:48PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking the UK study from a couple of weeks ago stated that the level of protection from 2 doses of AstraZeneca was close in efficacy to 2 doses of Pfizer but a single dose was relatively low in efficacy which is what was behind the rush to get the 2nd doses administered.

Seems on here some reckon AZ is useless but that doesn't seem to be what was reported in the UK study.

Both Pfizer and astra on one dose were circa 33% overall on Delta
Then 88.9 and 60 respectively on two
The risky aspect being longer intervals between AJ doses
Aj seems to build more immunity over time

is_that_so · 10-06-2021 04:03PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Have there been any suggestions that boosters won't be necessary? I thought that was pretty much a given, especially with the way the virus seems to be mutating constantly.

There is a lot of talk, most of it from pharma but the alarm over variants has governments planning as well. In truth nobody really knows but it's still best to talk about them anyway.

deeperlearning · 10-06-2021 08:09PM

The UK are planning on giving boosters tailored to the South African variant in the Autumn:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-in-talks-to-buy-astrazeneca-jab-for-covid-variants-xv8599z8j

astrofool · 10-06-2021 08:21PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

The UK are planning on giving boosters tailored to the South African variant in the Autumn:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-in-talks-to-buy-astrazeneca-jab-for-covid-variants-xv8599z8j

They are planning in case they are needed, there is no data forthcoming that boosters will be needed yet, even for the Beta (SA) variant.

Call me Al · 10-06-2021 09:17PM

Has there been any data released on what proportion of the UK vaccine programme is comprised of AstraZeneca?
I think they've about 66% or 70% of adults with first vaccine and they're doing under 30s in England at the moment who afaik are to be offered an MRNA alternative. But have they been hanging on to their MRNA supply to vaccinate this younger population?

robinph · 10-06-2021 11:15PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Has there been any data released on what proportion of the UK vaccine programme is comprised of AstraZeneca?
I think they've about 66% or 70% of adults with first vaccine and they're doing under 30s in England at the moment who afaik are to be offered an MRNA alternative. But have they been hanging on to their MRNA supply to vaccinate this younger population?

The latest numbers I saw was with 60% of people on Astra Zeneca, and that number reducing as more are now being given Pfizer.

Call me Al · 10-06-2021 11:38PM

robinph wrote: »

The latest numbers I saw was with 60% of people on Astra Zeneca, and that number reducing as more are now being given Pfizer.

Thank you
Any idea where data like this us recorded?
Last I saw they weren't giving this breakdown.

BillyBiggs · 12-06-2021 03:12PM

robinph wrote: »

The latest numbers I saw was with 60% of people on Astra Zeneca, and that number reducing as more are now being given Pfizer.

Is Covid-19 an obsession for you?:-)

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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