Article: "Having a kid is probably my biggest life regret: ‘Wife concurs’"

Faith · 01-06-2021 2:20pm #1

Interesting article on regretting having children here: https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/having-a-kid-is-probably-my-biggest-life-regret-wife-concurs-20210525-p57v3b.html

Some extracts:

“I never liked kids, but everyone kept saying ‘you will feel different when it’s your child’, or ‘having kids will be the best thing that ever happens to you’. So, we had a little girl and then we separated and now I have her 50/50 with my ex.

...

James says he feels as though he was tricked into having children. “People say how blessed they are to have kids and how they love them. But once you have kids and complain about school lunches, listening to the Wiggles and the lack of sleep, everybody agrees with you. Why do they wait to tell
you how bad it is after the fact? I can honestly say it’s harder than I ever imagined and if I had my time again, I would never have done it.”

Research shows that almost all couples – 92 per cent – experience increased conflict in their first year of parenthood, with the most divisive issue being the division of workload. And two-thirds report that their relationships suffered during the first three years of having a child.

Taylor says she often counsels parents who feel guilty about wanting to leave and being unable to cope with day-to-day challenges.

“They regret having kids and wish that they never did, and it’s very hard for them to admit that. A lot of parents don’t anticipate how significant the changes to their lives will be. It’s something they are not sufficiently prepared for.

“Some people expect being a parent to make their life happier, or make them more in love with their partner, and we know from research that is not the case."

GreeBo · 01-06-2021 2:24pm

I think being separated will significantly colour your experience of having children.

Also judging the experience when the kids are young is like judging a marathon after the first 5k.

R.D. aka MR.D · 01-06-2021 4:26pm

Articles like this are why open discussions of being childfree are important. Society does look to make you feel like you need to have kids so having an alternative point of view might help some people.

One point in the article that I wholeheartedly believe in is that there is almost an active cover-up of the realities of parenting.

I had a lot of friends had kids in secondary school, I can't imagine how terrified they were when certain things happened to them. I'm in my 30s and only recently learned of some of the physical aspects of pregnancy and childbirth. Girls need to be told at a young age, why hide the physical consequences? I get that it might be embarrassing to talk about incontinence, trauma, tearing etc etc but I really think it should be part if what girls are informed about at a young age.

And when it comes to raising kids, there are even more aspects I've learned from friends I'd absolutely no clue about. Like apparently you shouldn't even leave them alone so you can shower?!! I meab that is the low end of the scale of some of the stuff I've heard. But the biggest one for me is the parents I see who are still looking after their children or grandchildren. It isn't always 18 years and then everything is rosy and you can get back to how things were before. Having a child is literally lifechanging and there is no going back.

It is unfortunate that society really does shy away from open discussion. I mean it would be devastating for a child to find out their parents regretted them but maybe if there was more acceptance of things not always being easy or great, people would make more informed decisions.

GreeBo · 01-06-2021 4:36pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Articles like this are why open discussions of being childfree are important. Society does look to make you feel like you need to have kids so having an alternative point of view might help some people.

One point in the article that I wholeheartedly believe in is that there is almost an active cover-up of the realities of parenting.

I had a lot of friends had kids in secondary school, I can't imagine how terrified they were when certain things happened to them. I'm in my 30s and only recently learned of some of the physical aspects of pregnancy and childbirth. Girls need to be told at a young age, why hide the physical consequences? I get that it might be embarrassing to talk about incontinence, trauma, tearing etc etc but I really think it should be part if what girls are informed about at a young age.

And when it comes to raising kids, there are even more aspects I've learned from friends I'd absolutely no clue about. Like apparently you shouldn't even leave them alone so you can shower?!! I meab that is the low end of the scale of some of the stuff I've heard. But the biggest one for me is the parents I see who are still looking after their children or grandchildren. It isn't always 18 years and then everything is rosy and you can get back to how things were before. Having a child is literally lifechanging and there is no going back.

It is unfortunate that society really does shy away from open discussion. I mean it would be devastating for a child to find out their parents regretted them but maybe if there was more acceptance of things not always being easy or great, people would make more informed decisions.

To be fair, I dont think any of those realities are hidden, if you actually go and look you can find details of childbirth going into all sorts of graphic detail, such as the pros and cons of a cut vs a tear...

The same is true for the lack of "me time" and showering with the door open and a kid on a bouncer, going to the jacks with an audience etc, etc.

Parents who are still looking after adult children or grandchildren are doing it because they want to, I would class that as a positive example of what having children means to some people, rather than a negative aspect to it.

A counter point might be more discussions on the reality of not having children and the reality of what that might mean in your later years. (note that this doesnt in any way mean that you should have children so they can look after/help/support you, it is however a reality)

01-06-2021 5:12pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Articles like this are why open discussions of being childfree are important. Society does look to make you feel like you need to have kids so having an alternative point of view might help some people.

One point in the article that I wholeheartedly believe in is that there is almost an active cover-up of the realities of parenting.

I had a lot of friends had kids in secondary school, I can't imagine how terrified they were when certain things happened to them. I'm in my 30s and only recently learned of some of the physical aspects of pregnancy and childbirth. Girls need to be told at a young age, why hide the physical consequences? I get that it might be embarrassing to talk about incontinence, trauma, tearing etc etc but I really think it should be part if what girls are informed about at a young age.

And when it comes to raising kids, there are even more aspects I've learned from friends I'd absolutely no clue about. Like apparently you shouldn't even leave them alone so you can shower?!! I meab that is the low end of the scale of some of the stuff I've heard. But the biggest one for me is the parents I see who are still looking after their children or grandchildren. It isn't always 18 years and then everything is rosy and you can get back to how things were before. Having a child is literally lifechanging and there is no going back.

It is unfortunate that society really does shy away from open discussion. I mean it would be devastating for a child to find out their parents regretted them but maybe if there was more acceptance of things not always being easy or great, people would make more informed decisions.

Well having kids certainly changes things, but, pretty much, you cant just leave them on their own when they are babies, you need to be there somewhere in the background when they are resting/sleeping, but certainly around when they are awake, their environment needs to be safe and they need to be kept safe.
It should be a personal choice, I could have continued without having a child, never really thought of it as a life step I had to take, but in the end I participated in planning for a child, my life would have been different and easier in ways, but since, I wouldnt change it.
Whether a child is planned or not, the parents outlook to it happening is what will colour their future impression, if ever its a situation that its always touted (or seems to the parent) as an essential life step and they are someone that needs convincing, then I think that person should do everything to avoid it, others will plan and others will be less cautious and deal with what happens.
An adult (presumably we are talking about mature reasonably responsible people and not underage pregnancies) engaging in intercourse knows the potential outcome of that, a person cant just assume everything they hear being all sweetness and nice is true, its hard work. I get that people will gush over the nice stuff, but I think it is in our genetic makeup to downplay the not so nice parts so we forget the difficult parts and hard work, as we are predisposed to procreating.

How much/long someone ends up looking after their own kids or further future generations might depend on how they raise them, what values they instill in them, mainly in terms of how much they promote education imo, and you still might encounter something different than planned.

I would never have thought it is for me, but the joys and highs outweigh the problems imo, but there will always be lows and problems.
Some people could do without the lows and problems, anyone could really, but others dont need or have the want to have a child and thats ok.
What I dont get is people pushing others as to how great it is, sometimes the people that push it so much, you'd nearly think they are trying to dupe people to go along as they are not so convinced themselves, where others just get on with it.

I started late so I doubt I'll be able to look after grandkids or ever know of them, which is ok by me.

eviltwin · 01-06-2021 5:22pm

One person’s idea of heaven is another person’s idea of hell. I think the guy in the article should have listened to his gut and never had kids if he knew he didn’t want them. Most parents I know would do anything for their kids and see the sacrifices as worth it.

We should be more encouraging of lives that don’t include children but should be careful that we don’t scare people off having children either. And just maybe stop being so bothered with what other people do and trying to convince them they made the wrong choice.

R.D. aka MR.D · 01-06-2021 5:28pm

GreeBo wrote: »

To be fair, I dont think any of those realities are hidden, if you actually go and look you can find details of childbirth going into all sorts of graphic detail, such as the pros and cons of a cut vs a tear...

The same is true for the lack of "me time" and showering with the door open and a kid on a bouncer, going to the jacks with an audience etc, etc.

Parents who are still looking after adult children or grandchildren are doing it because they want to, I would class that as a positive example of what having children means to some people, rather than a negative aspect to it.

A counter point might be more discussions on the reality of not having children and the reality of what that might mean in your later years. (note that this doesnt in any way mean that you should have children so they can look after/help/support you, it is however a reality)

That might be true now with the internet but it certainly wasn't always the case. I recently read that some women even suffer PTSD, it would be interesting to know how many women actively try to research the risks themselves or if they just listen to the platitudes.

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree on choice, i have the experience in my own family of parents looking after grandchildren due to the alternative of those children going into care. Of course they made the choice to keep them but what kind of a choice is that. All their other kids are mostly fine but there is one who unfortunately has issues. Maybe you can blame them, maybe you can't. My own parents were lucky to have two independent children straight away when they got to adulthood, it isn't always the case. I just think that assuming you're kids will be no hassle after 18 is optimistic.

Oh there are definitely downsides to not having kids, but those downsides will be suffered by you personally. You won't go creating another life who may or may not be impacted negatively by your choice to create them and how you choose to raise them. I support people speaking out but every single time I think how sad it is that those children have a parent who regrets them, they got no choice in that.

eviltwin · 01-06-2021 5:35pm

I’m the child of a parent who didn’t want kids. You just have to get on with it. Yes it’s sad but what is the alternative? Life is what you make it.

jimmycrackcorm · 01-06-2021 5:44pm

One of the biggest problems from a male perspective of having kids is if you split up with your partner. It means you generally are on the hook for the remaining childhood years paying a mortgage for a house you can't live in and high child maintenance payments for more than you'd have to outlay if you were living together. While also having to pay rent for your own space.

Without kids involved, you could split assets fairly and move on. I have a lodger in this position and he basically has no money to have a life, loves his kids but only had them through an expensive IVF process to make his partner happy.

R.D. aka MR.D · 01-06-2021 5:47pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I’m the child of a parent who didn’t want kids. You just have to get on with it. Yes it’s sad but what is the alternative? Life is what you make it.

It is great that you have found peace with it.I know others who haven't managed to get there yet.

I have an alcoholic parent (which is a whole different thing) and in my younger years, I struggled a lot with that but thankfully now that I'm older I have the same attitude as you. You just have to get on with it. No point in going over the damage done through no fault of my own, life isn't fair. But that takes a good bit of work to get to point where you just accept that you will never change your past. Not everyone manages to do it that either and that is also okay, people have different abilities to deal with difficult childhood experiences.

o1s1n · 02-06-2021 12:03pm

GreeBo wrote: »

A counter point might be more discussions on the reality of not having children and the reality of what that might mean in your later years. (note that this doesnt in any way mean that you should have children so they can look after/help/support you, it is however a reality)

It's something both side needs to be careful of. The child you spent all of your life and money rearing could feck off to Australia, never to be seen of again in your elder years. They might have a falling out with you and become estranged etc.

Meanwhile, your childfree friend might be sitting in a beautiful retirement home with all the money they invested in stock and property rather than children.

meeeeh · 02-06-2021 12:20pm

I'm sorry but this article reads like a collection of weaklings who blame everyone but themselves for their own decisions. If they cannot blame their partner they blame the society. They obviously didn't grow up enough to take responsibility for their own actions.

Oh and there is no doubt there are people who regret kids and there are people who shouldn't have kids even though they don't regret them. That's life though you can't expect everything to be perfect.

GreeBo · 02-06-2021 2:53pm

o1s1n wrote: »

It's something both side needs to be careful of. The child you spent all of your life and money rearing could feck off to Australia, never to be seen of again in your elder years. They might have a falling out with you and become estranged etc.

Meanwhile, your childfree friend might be sitting in a beautiful retirement home with all the money they invested in stock and property rather than children.

Sure enough, but I think thats stats would show that children leaving to never be seen again is rarer than your alternative suggestion

(i have zero evidence to back this up, other than anecdotal)

R.D. aka MR.D · 02-06-2021 3:04pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm sorry but this article reads like a collection of weaklings who blame everyone but themselves for their own decisions. If they cannot blame their partner they blame the society. They obviously didn't grow up enough to take responsibility for their own actions.

Oh and there is no doubt there are people who regret kids and there are people who shouldn't have kids even though they don't regret them. That's life though you can't expect everything to be perfect.

I think that some people get pressured by society, some people find themselves in the position of parenthood through lack of proper sex education, some people are coerced by family or partners into keeping a child. I just don't think it is as black and white as people just moaning.

I agree people should think about having children more than they do but societal and family pressures are real. I don't think it is maturity a lot of the time but strength. I'm lucky that I had positive role models in my life from a young age, not everyone does.

I think if an article like this is out there at least it disrupts some the common narratives you hear about how once the baby arrives you'll love it, you'll feel fufilled and whole and it's different when it's your own.

meeeeh · 02-06-2021 3:20pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I think that some people get pressured by society, some people find themselves in the position of parenthood through lack of proper sex education, some people are coerced by family or partners into keeping a child. I just don't think it is as black and white as people just moaning.

I agree people should think about having children more than they do but societal and family pressures are real. I don't think it is maturity a lot of the time but strength. I'm lucky that I had positive role models in my life from a young age, not everyone does.

I think if an article like this is out there at least it disrupts some the common narratives you hear about how once the baby arrives you'll love it, you'll feel fufilled and whole and it's different when it's your own.

I don't know about being fulfilled but I would say even majority of people who regret having kids love their kids and feel different towards their own kids. People who regret having kids can still be good parents. They might not be as happy as they could be.

I don't accept that it's someone else's fault (unless there is a deception, rape or lack of access to abortion). I especially dislike 'my wife made me do it'. Healthy sane adults are responsible for our own actions although we might not be happy with the result.

Edit: there is also misconception that people feel the same all the time. I didn't regret having kids but I definitely didn't enjoy it when they were babies. Some will never regret having kids, some will regret it at some stage and some will always regret it. Nobody however enjoys it all the time and is happy all the time.

o1s1n · 02-06-2021 4:13pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Healthy sane adults are responsible for our own actions although we might not be happy with the result.

Indeed they are, however unfortunately a lot of people don't have your mental fortitude when it comes to resisting pressure like this. Be it by society, their family, their partner etc.

People cave on issues due to pressure and they do it all the time. Couple that with constantly being told 'ah you don't know what you're missing! and 'everyone does it, you'll be grand, it's normal!' definitely results in a lot of people ending up with children they probably would have been better off without.

meeeeh · 02-06-2021 4:26pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Indeed they are, however unfortunately a lot of people don't have your mental fortitude when it comes to resisting pressure like this. Be it by society, their family, their partner etc.

People cave on issues due to pressure and they do it all the time. Couple that with constantly being told 'ah you don't know what you're missing! and 'everyone does it, you'll be grand, it's normal!' definitely results in a lot of people ending up with children they probably would have been better off without.

It's nothing to do with mental fortitude. We don't make decisions in isolation, I accept that, but the easiest thing is to blame ex (parents, society, friends) for everything that went wrong. In the end it's ourselves who do or don't do something.

o1s1n · 02-06-2021 6:45pm

meeeeh wrote: »

It's nothing to do with mental fortitude. We don't make decisions in isolation, I accept that, but the easiest thing is to blame ex (parents, society, friends) for everything that went wrong. In the end it's ourselves who do or don't do something.

It is everything to do with mental fortitude though.

The old lady being harassed at her door by a salesman? The naïve 16 year old being pressured by his mates to try drugs? The atheist parents who keep at their children to baptise their grandchildren for fear of 'limbo'? The wife putting pressure on her husband to have children while 'she still can?' The husband who wants his own 'Little Johnny' to kick a ball around the garden with?

All these things are pressures put on people and the end result will depend on how strong their will is to stand their ground.

Unfortunately in many of these instances, the person caves to pressure and does a thing they are not comfortable doing or are lead to believe a different decision is the right one for them.

Is it their responsibility? Of course, I don't disagree with you there. Can people be coerced into things and routes they probably shouldn't have gone down? Most definitely. I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting you made a wrong choice and the reason you made that choice was down to pressure from another party. It definitely doesn't make you a 'weakling'.

meeeeh · 02-06-2021 9:07pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Is it their responsibility? Of course, I don't disagree with you there. Can people be coerced into things and routes they probably shouldn't have gone down? Most definitely. I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting you made a wrong choice and the reason you made that choice was down to pressure from another party. It definitely doesn't make you a 'weakling'.

Mental fortitude is how you deal with things after they don't go your way. I know a man who blamed his employers (multiple) for lack of success, ex for lack of a relationship, claimed others are more successful because of their parents and so on. It was always someone else until you realise you are just dealing with a weak person who needs something to excuse his failings.

Things go wrong in life. Some whinge and blame others and some make the best out of the situation. There is nothing wrong in admitting you regret having children but don't blame it on everyone but yourself.

Addle · 02-06-2021 9:16pm

It’s so sad.
No way kids don’t pick up on their parents feelings.
Resentment leading to more resentment.

meeeeh · 02-06-2021 9:29pm

Addle wrote: »

It’s so sad.
No way kids don’t pick up on their parents feelings.
Resentment leading to more resentment.

I think some parents are still very good parents despite regretting having kids. And there are rubbish parents who don't regret having kids. However if someone blames their ex or family for having kids you can be sure they will blame kids next.

Igotadose · 03-06-2021 6:27pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Oh there are definitely downsides to not having kids, but those downsides will be suffered by you personally.

Really? Can't think of any. Made the decision early in life to not have kids, now 60+ years old. Can enumerate hundreds of lives I know ruined by the decision to have kids.

So, tell me, what are these downsides to not having kids? About the only one I can think of is the "breeder mafia" controlling promotions/perks at work kind of thing, but that wasn't a huge downside in my experience, if I ended up working in a nest of breeders I moved on.

R.D. aka MR.D · 03-06-2021 6:49pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? Can't think of any. Made the decision early in life to not have kids, now 60+ years old. Can enumerate hundreds of lives I know ruined by the decision to have kids.

So, tell me, what are these downsides to not having kids? About the only one I can think of is the "breeder mafia" controlling promotions/perks at work kind of thing, but that wasn't a huge downside in my experience, if I ended up working in a nest of breeders I moved on.

I think for me as a women, the older I get the less seriously I'm taken because I don't have nor want children. Somehow I have less of an idea about the world because I couldn't possibly know anything because I don't have kids. Again, I am in my 30s now and have hardly any good friends because they all have kids and their lives revolve around that.

Decisions need to be made about our retirement etc. We have vastly more options but we need to make sure to save the additional money we have by not having kids to ensyre we're not stuck in late retirement with no one around to help us cook/drive etc.

Anecdotally I've heard people can find it difficult to find partners etc. I didn't have that issue but I can believe it is difficult for some.

I completely agree that I see more people unhappy with kids, especially lots of people with lost opportunity etc. But I definitely think there are downsides to being Childfree, not as devastating as having kids you don't want but still not all smooth sailing.

03-06-2021 11:29pm

Igotadose wrote: »

"breeder mafia"

Give it a rest with the slurs

meeeeh · 03-06-2021 11:36pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? Can't think of any. Made the decision early in life to not have kids, now 60+ years old. Can enumerate hundreds of lives I know ruined by the decision to have kids.

So, tell me, what are these downsides to not having kids? About the only one I can think of is the "breeder mafia" controlling promotions/perks at work kind of thing, but that wasn't a huge downside in my experience, if I ended up working in a nest of breeders I moved on.

That's an entertaining post. One would expect to have an advantage at work if you don't have commitments kids bring. Just admit you were not really that good at what you do if every parent got promoted ahead of you.

The One Doctor · 03-06-2021 11:41pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I think if an article like this is out there at least it disrupts some the common narratives you hear about how once the baby arrives you'll love it, you'll feel fufilled and whole and it's different when it's your own.

Pro tip: Have kids if you want to have kids. Don't have kids if you don't want to have kids.

Fcuk sakes this should be adulthood 101.

I wanted kids, I'm good with kids, therefore I have them and I'm happy with that. If you believe you're going to be a poor parent, enjoy your notional freedom or just hate screechy stuff then make sure you wear two condoms and pop the odd pill.

But please don't flaunt your inability to tolerate noise, mess and small people
to others.

You do realise that the government will choose your nursing home, right?

DavyD_83 · 03-06-2021 11:52pm

Disclaimer: I haven't read the full article, only the extracts in OP.
But it seems this is a person who didn't want kids, who had a child and essentially had before confirmed that they wish they didn't have a child.
All that says to me is of you don't want kids, don't have kids I'm not sure there is a deeper message.

I wanted to have kids, I have kids, and I love having kids.

People should do what they believe they want to do, and accept the consequences. Obviously this doesn't take into consideration unplanned or uncontrolled circumstances, but I didn't get the impression this came into the article either.

DavyD_83 · 04-06-2021 12:00am

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? Can't think of any. Made the decision early in life to not have kids, now 60+ years old. Can enumerate hundreds of lives I know ruined by the decision to have kids.

So, tell me, what are these downsides to not having kids? About the only one I can think of is the "breeder mafia" controlling promotions/perks at work kind of thing, but that wasn't a huge downside in my experience, if I ended up working in a nest of breeders I moved on.

You're not wrong.
The downside to not having kids is not experiencing the act of having and raising kids.
The downside to having kids is not experiencing living and adgng without kids and living for yourself and those you love rather than (frequently) for your children.

We all make choices, deliberate or otherwise, to include and exclude certain experiences from our lives.

That said, you do sound a wee bit melodramatic about the whole thing

barney shamrock · 04-06-2021 12:02am

I've two children, both around 20 years old now.
Today I can say they are my greatest achievement in life and now they are young adults making their own way in life they are both a source of great joy and pride to me.
However....
If you asked me for the first 7-8 years of their existence if I regretted having children I would have said yes, immediately.
The early years are hell but it gradually gets easier and more rewarding.

04-06-2021 12:25am

The One Doctor wrote: »

But please don't flaunt your inability to tolerate noise, mess and small people to others.

This would be why many choose to remain childfree, it would make sense that it may be "flaunted" in a forum labelled Childfree by Choice.

Flinty997 · 04-06-2021 12:31am

This forum in my opinion should be about the positives of being child free and how best to take advantage of that.

Way too focused on kids and parenting.

If you have made a life choice thats made you happy. There is no need to constantly reaffirm that choice. If there are people and family who constantly try to do this to you. Have minimal or no contact with them. It may not be easy but it's necessary.

Its not good to be constantly focused on negativity, as some on this forum seems to tend to do.

There was some good discussion on traveling during school time and adult only hotels, restaurants etc. Things like that are excellent.

Flinty997 · 04-06-2021 12:40am

DavyD_83 wrote: »

You're not wrong.
The downside ....

There is no downside if you're not interested.

04-06-2021 8:22am

The One Doctor wrote: »

You do realise that the government will choose your nursing home, right?

The government won't be choosing my nursing home, if I choose to go into one. Why would you think such a thing?

JimmyVik · 04-06-2021 8:31am

I think the amount of people who dont want kids after having them is very small.
Maybe for the first few years, which are hard, but after that it gets much easier and joyful.
At one point we didnt want kids ever either.
This changed as we got older.

I posted this in another thread,

All I can say is ...... Kids
You have two lives.
One before kids, and one after.

Before kids, you wonder what the fcuk do people do when they have kids. All the hardship and hassle of the little snot factories. You wonder how on earth could people let that happen to them.

Then after to have kids, yes they are snot factories and all the other stuff too. But you have a brand new life. A better one. And you wonder how that happened. You wonder what did I ever do before I had kids. What a life I have now. So much happiness and joy, and snots.

04-06-2021 8:38am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Then after to have kids, yes they are snot factories and all the other stuff too. But you have a brand new life. A better one. And you wonder how that happened. You wonder what did I ever do before I had kids. What a life I have now. So much happiness and joy, and snots.

And this patronising post is why people wanted a childfree by choice forum!

Mike Murdock · 04-06-2021 8:40am

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think the amount of people who dont want kids after having them is very small.
Maybe for the first few years, which are hard, but after that it gets much easier and joyful.

And then they hit the teenage years...

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Igotadose · 04-06-2021 8:45am

Flinty997 wrote: »

This forum in my opinion should be about the positives of being child free and how best to take advantage of that.

Way too focused on kids and parenting.

Usually when Parents find out about fora like this, they invade and burble about the joy of having had children. How can anyone think differently? A Parent can't be wrong, can it? And a parent's choice to have children can NEVER be criticized, unlike the choice to not have children.

They never ever consider the risks of having children. Never. Nor the costs.

If you have made a life choice thats made you happy. There is no need to constantly reaffirm that choice.

Great point - but it's the Parents that need the reaffirmation, not the child-free. Why else show up and proselytize?

If there are people and family who constantly try to do this to you. Have minimal or no contact with them. It may not be easy but it's necessary.

Its not good to be constantly focused on negativity, as some on this forum seems to tend to do.

There was some good discussion on traveling during school time and adult only hotels, restaurants etc. Things like that are excellent.

JimmyVik · 04-06-2021 8:49am

bubblypop wrote: »

And this patronising post is why people wanted a childfree by choice forum!

What ????
Cop on to yourself there.
Nobody is patronising or having a go at you.
Have kids if you want them. Dont if you dont want them.
But there is no need to attack people who have the opposite experience as yourself.

JimmyVik · 04-06-2021 8:49am

Mike Murdock wrote: »

And then they hit the teenage years...

I am coming up to that

Was lucky to make it out of my own teenage years.
I hear it will be interesting times ahead

04-06-2021 8:54am

JimmyVik wrote: »

But you have a brand new life. A better one.

Who's 'you' in this scenario? Maybe it should say 'I'?

That's what's so annoying about the weird taboos we have about how we talk about becoming a parent.

Sure, most parents don't regret it, but those that do are forbidden from talking about it.

As for those of us that choose not to become a parent at all? I can't think of any other choices in life that invite people to tell you that they have a better life than you.

Igotadose · 04-06-2021 9:00am

JimmyVik wrote: »

What ????
Cop on to yourself there.
Nobody is patronising or having a go at you.
Have kids if you want them. Dont if you dont want them.
But there is no need to attack people who have the opposite experience as yourself.

Cop on yourself. "A better life?" So, you're judging the child-free's choice as *worse* than the choice to have kids? Seems patronizing to me.

And, it's not 'experience' that's being debated here. It's the choice. Better to say that the child-free have made the opposite choice. The decision to have children is a choice, after all, even in Ireland.

LillySV · 04-06-2021 9:06am

Faith wrote: »

Interesting article on regretting having children here: https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/having-a-kid-is-probably-my-biggest-life-regret-wife-concurs-20210525-p57v3b.html

Some extracts:

This is the ramblings of a pathetic and selfish loser who probably blames everyone else for being a miserable prick with a miserable life

Faith · 04-06-2021 9:11am

The One Doctor wrote: »

Pro tip: Have kids if you want to have kids. Don't have kids if you don't want to have kids.

Fcuk sakes this should be adulthood 101.

I 100% agree with you. But the problem is typified in this very thread - say you don't want children and you're deluged with people telling you how wrong you are, how delightful children are and how lesser your life is without them.

It takes an enormous amount of strength not to bow to that societal pressure, and not everyone manages that. Thus, you end up in the situation of having regretful parents, and it's a fact of life that needs to be openly discussed. Being open about it is the only way to bring about change, not hiding it in a corner and pretending it doesn't exist.

Igotadose · 04-06-2021 9:12am

LillySV wrote: »

This is the ramblings of a pathetic and selfish loser who probably blames everyone else for being a miserable prick with a miserable life

Did you read the article? There were many people quoted, survey results shared, books quoted. Are they all pathetic losers with miserable lives? They share one thing - regret at having children. Even a mention of an FB group, 28000 followers, sharing the regret.

JimmyVik · 04-06-2021 9:16am

Jesus there is a lot of animosity towards anyone who states that they might be happy to have kids in this thread.
Its almost like having kids somehow makes other people forget what it was like to not have kids, therefore they are not allowed to compare life without kids against life after kids as a good thing.
Only bad experiences allowed in here I guess.
Kinda scary actually. I think i'll leave.

magicbastarder · 04-06-2021 9:24am

you have to understand the context; this is the childfree by choice forum. pretty much everyone in here has had quite a bit of 'you're missing out' or 'you'll regret it when you're older' etc.; some quite pointed comments.
'i had kids and i don't regret it' doesn't really add much to the debate, especially when no one is arguing that most parents regret it. most of us here probably had happy childhoods with parents who made the choice and didn't regret it.
it's more about that minority of parents who have admitted to regretting parenthood. and i know people - both my own age, and my parents' generation, who have admitted that having kids might have been a mistake (and yes, i accept that regarding my own generation, they may be going through a slump and will come out the other end happy)

i'm not trying to justify/excuse all comments btw; there have been some shall we say, hasty, things said.

R.D. aka MR.D · 04-06-2021 9:26am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Jesus there is a lot of animosity towards anyone who states that they might be happy to have kids in this thread.
Its almost like having kids somehow makes other people forget what it was like to not have kids, therefore they are not allowed to compare life without kids against life after kids as a good thing.
Only bad experiences allowed in here I guess.
Kinda scary actually. I think i'll leave.

It isn't about comparing the two, it's about going on to a specific forum and saying your life is better with kids.

What would happen if I went on to the parenting forum and started talking about how great my life without kids is, all the things i can do and how now that people have kids they just can't understand because they are trapped. It is just rude!

Flinty997 · 04-06-2021 9:28am

Igotadose wrote: »

....Great point - but it's the Parents that need the reaffirmation, not the child-free. Why else show up and proselytize?...

It's human nature and its an open forum. If you have a Topic Title that says Soccer is a waste of time, you're going to get people who want to disagree with you. Some will be to argue with you some will be trying to be helpful and give their perspective.

On some forums like the cycling one certain topics are banned to one thread only. Because drivers derailed every thread with the same "opinions" which were based on flawed information and a lack of experience. Cyclists wanted to talk about cycling not driving in every thread. They do have threads like the near miss thread to share experience's like that. But the majority of the forum is not focused on bad things about driving.

Mike Murdock · 04-06-2021 9:30am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It's not surprising that the entitled self obsessed child adults today don't like the responsibility and self sacrifice of children.

Some people are just not emotionally equiped

Himnydownunder · 04-06-2021 9:43am

Governments need babies to be born, so that they have a tax paying workforce to pay for pensioners and civil servants. That is a big source of the societal pressure to have a child. Also regarding others putting pressure on you to have a child, people will always pester you about something. When you are in your late teens it’s “what college course are you interested in?” When you finish said college course it’s “have you got a job with your degree yet?” Then it’s “where are you working?” Add in “are you seeing anybody?” When you are seeing somebody “when are ye getting married?” And so on and so forth till you die.

meeeeh · 04-06-2021 9:53am

Igotadose wrote: »

Usually when Parents find out about fora like this, they invade and burble about the joy of having had children. How can anyone think differently? A Parent can't be wrong, can it? And a parent's choice to have children can NEVER be criticized, unlike the choice to not have children.

That's not true. Whatever issues childfree people have one of the favourite sports in the country is kick the single mother (historically even lock away the single mother). This points to complete lack of awareness what's going on in society.

Article: "Having a kid is probably my biggest life regret: ‘Wife concurs’"

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