Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Covid-19 likely to be man made

1…3839414344…75

Comments

  • #1202
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Surely this needs to be moved from the conspiracy theories section? This is now the most likely scenario according to numerous sources.
    Which sources? Most of the ones I've seen still contend that the zoonotic origin is the more likely.

    And it's in the conspiracy theory section because people are suggesting things about the virus beyond the idea that a natural virus escaped from a lab.
    For example, it's been suggested that the virus was entirely created from whole cloth. Another claim is that there's a big global conspiracy to cover up the origin of the virus.


  • #1203
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Surely this needs to be moved from the conspiracy theories section? This is now the most likely scenario according to numerous sources.

    There is little evidence that the virus was "man-made", which sources are you referring to?


  • #1204
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,058 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Surely this needs to be moved from the conspiracy theories section? This is now the most likely scenario according to numerous sources.

    Read back over the last week or so of the thread.
    All issues raised with the Wuhan lab 3 November infections have been addressed and the mention of the possibility of alteration in an email to Fauci from Jan 2020 is well covered by saneman's recent posts.

    Then, could you outline which "part" you think is true?

    De Novo creation of a weaponised virus and deliberate release, or accidental release?
    Alteration of existing virus as part of research and deliberate or accidental release?
    Investigation and collection of Corona virus from zoonotic sources for research at Virology lab and accidental or deliberate release?

    Or is there a different spin you feel is true?

    Then could you outline any evidence to support your conviction?

    It may well be that Covid and it's spread from Wuhan is the result of a leak.
    But without credible evidence? It's basically shouting I know it was China without any evidence.

    The evidence that Trump relied on for his and Pompeo's effort to blame China has been disregarded by the US and a completely new- fresh start investigation stood up to review the origin of the outbreak.


  • #1205
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Surely this needs to be moved from the conspiracy theories section? This is now the most likely scenario according to numerous sources.


    This is already in the conspiracy theory section.
    Which in itself doesn't disqualify the point of view of scientists who have put forward their concerns about the origin of the virus. Especially after the outcome of the initial investigation is now up for debate again


  • #1206
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    astrofool wrote: »
    This is just a bizarre response, all available evidence points to a zoonotic origin, there, here is one posted in Nature last year with references and evidence included along with a few possible methods that the virus jumped to humans:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    There is more, but as a starting point, provide evidence that refutes some of the evidence in the peer-reviewed Nature article.

    Yeah. And you try to read your peer reviewed article mainly conclusion to see that it is just hypothesis as to this date there is no evidence pointing to origin of said virus


  • Advertisement
  • #1207
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Yeah. And you try to read your peer reviewed article mainly conclusion to see that it is just hypothesis as to this date there is no evidence pointing to origin of said virus
    No, there is evidence towards the zoonotic origin of the virus.
    The reasons for this are outlined in the article.

    I think you just don't understand what the words "evidence" "hypothesis" and "proof" actually mean in a scientific context.


  • #1208
    splashuum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭splashuum


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Surely this needs to be moved from the conspiracy theories section? This is now the most likely scenario according to numerous sources.

    I argued this a long time ago and the suggestion was laughed at by the Mods.


  • #1209
    splashuum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭splashuum


    Tokyo wrote: »
    Mod: Moved to conspiracy theories forum. xl9hyAS.gif

    Can you move this back to current affairs now?


  • #1210
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    splashuum wrote: »
    Can you move this back to current affairs now?

    There is little evidence that the virus is man-made and that hasn't changed much.

    What has changed is that the Biden admin is holding an investigation, part of which is to try and determine the origin of the virus, one of the theories is that it could have accidentally leaked from the lab.

    A number of people are conflating the two, repeatedly.

    To simplify: accidental lab-leak ≠ "man-made"


  • #1211
    Trigger
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    splashuum wrote: »
    Can you move this back to current affairs now?

    Mod: No.

    Moderator: Forum Games, Conspiracy Theories, Current Affairs/IMHO



  • Advertisement
  • #1212
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    10,000 emails from Fauci leaked

    "...In one email sent to Fauci last April, an executive at EcoHealth Alliance, the global nonprofit that helped fund some research at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology, thanked Fauci for publicly stating that scientific evidence supports a natural origin for the coronavirus and not a lab release"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/03/health/anthony-fauci-emails/index.html


  • #1213
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,908 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    10,000 emails from Fauci leaked

    "...In one email sent to Fauci last April, an executive at EcoHealth Alliance, the global nonprofit that helped fund some research at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology, thanked Fauci for publicly stating that scientific evidence supports a natural origin for the coronavirus and not a lab release"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/03/health/anthony-fauci-emails/index.html

    He also said
    "I have always said, and will say today to you, John, that I still believe the most likely origin is from an animal species to a human, but I keep an absolutely open mind that if there may be other origins of that, there may be another reason, it could have been a lab leak," Fauci told Berman. "I believe if you look historically, what happens in the animal-human interface, that in fact the more likelihood is that you're dealing with a jump of species. But I keep an open mind all the time. And that's the reason why I have been public that we should continue to look for the origin.


  • #1214
    Unicorn Milk Latte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    No emails were leaked.


    Fauci's emails were disclosed via Freedom of Information Act, which is a perfectly normal, legal process.


    Fauci has stated, ad nauseam, that a lab leak origin is highly unlikely, but thorough scientific methodology demands to look into it, because it's a theoretical possibility, however small.


  • #1215
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »
    No emails were leaked.

    Fauci's emails were disclosed via Freedom of Information Act, which is a perfectly normal, legal process.


    same thing, emails are now out there


  • #1216
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    same thing, emails are now out there

    And the conspiracy community are busy leaving out context in order to sow conspiracy narratives.


  • #1217
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    And the conspiracy community are busy leaving out context in order to sow conspiracy narratives.
    Do you think Alina Chan with her tweets is part of the conspiracy community? It's a little disingenuous to talk about "context" when the WHO/China investigation did not include investigating a lab origin of any kind in its terms of reference.


  • #1218
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    10,000 emails from Fauci leaked

    "...In one email sent to Fauci last April, an executive at EcoHealth Alliance, the global nonprofit that helped fund some research at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology, thanked Fauci for publicly stating that scientific evidence supports a natural origin for the coronavirus and not a lab release"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/03/health/anthony-fauci-emails/index.html

    Everything Fauci is quoted as saying there is coherent, consistent, and makes sense.
    What's your problem, and why are you selectively quoting, and trying to spin it?

    In relation to what you quoted, Fauci also says
    "You can misconstrue it however you want -- that email was from a person to me saying 'thank you' for whatever it is he thought I said, and I said that I think the most likely origin is a jumping of species. I still do think it is, at the same time as I'm keeping an open mind that it might be a lab leak."

    Why didn't you give the full picture of what was said?
    You effectively decided to misconstrue it?
    How are you different to the misinformation merchants?


  • #1219
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    lucernarian wrote: »
    It's a little disingenuous to talk about "context" when the WHO/China investigation did not include investigating a lab origin of any kind in its terms of reference.

    No, because I was referring to something else, the conspiracy community's general response to Fauci's emails.


  • #1220
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,058 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    same thing, emails are now out there

    It really isn't.
    Leaked, implies secret or restricted information that people sought to suppress has been "leaked".
    It implies that despite an effort to suppress it's gotten out there.

    That's not what happened here though.
    In a demonstration of how transparency and accountability should work.
    An FOI request was made, and on foot of that the requested communications were released to the public.

    Doesn't sound as exciting or as conspiratorial as "leaked" though does it?
    Leaked makes it seem like hidden knowledge has been discovered, rather than just someone handing over the somewhat redacted emails.


  • #1221
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    banie01 wrote: »
    It really isn't.
    Leaked, implies secret or restricted information that people sought to suppress has been "leaked".
    It implies that despite an effort to suppress it's gotten out there.

    That's not what happened here though.
    In a demonstration of how transparency and accountability should work.
    An FOI request was made, and on foot of that the requested communications were released to the public.

    Doesn't sound as exciting or as conspiratorial as "leaked" though does it?
    Leaked makes it seem like hidden knowledge has been discovered, rather than just someone handing over the somewhat redacted emails.

    "I don't care about the truth, I only want the conspiracy, any conspiracy will do"


  • Advertisement
  • #1222
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    PintOfView wrote: »
    Everything Fauci is quoted as saying there is coherent, consistent, and makes sense.
    What's your problem, and why are you selectively quoting, and trying to spin it?

    In relation to what you quoted, Fauci also says
    "You can misconstrue it however you want -- that email was from a person to me saying 'thank you' for whatever it is he thought I said, and I said that I think the most likely origin is a jumping of species. I still do think it is, at the same time as I'm keeping an open mind that it might be a lab leak."

    Why didn't you give the full picture of what was said?
    You effectively decided to misconstrue it?
    How are you different to the misinformation merchants?


    If i put the link, you want the summary
    if I put the summary, you want the link


    You guys are never happy LOL


    instead of going around in circle spamming the thread as usual, you can address the fact that Fauci's email are painting a dodgy picture of what may have gone on in the background.
    I'm glad that mainstream media is finally free to talk. Even Facebook stopped censoring discussions about the origin of Covid


  • #1223
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No, because I was referring to something else, the conspiracy community's general response to Fauci's emails.
    Do you think the signatories of the letter to Science are part of the conspiracy community? The likes of Alina Chan or Prof. Ralph Baric?

    I'm trying to get a measure of the meaning of the phrase, whether it's there to point out a fringe of Twitter lunatics, or a tool of rhetoric used to dismiss legitimate scientific discussion about the general topic.


  • #1224
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,058 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Do you think Alina Chan with her tweets is part of the conspiracy community? It's a little disingenuous to talk about "context" when the WHO/China investigation did not include investigating a lab origin of any kind in its terms of reference.

    I certainly don't.
    I also think her expressed of the lab leak and her dissatisfaction with journalists asking "how likely a lab leak is?"

    Squares very well with a competent researcher who wants to follow the evidence to a conclusion, rather than create a conclusion and fit evidence to it.


  • #1225
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »
    No emails were leaked.


    Correct. Yesterday, Dipshít Twitter was describing it as a leak and were being corrected constantly by Reality Twitter.


  • #1226
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    If i put the link, you want the summary
    if I put the summary, you want the link

    If you are claiming something you need to justify it with the source so others can judge for themselves.
    You put in both a summary and the link, thanks, and in my judgement you were cherry picking to skew the picture.
    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    instead of going around in circle spamming the thread as usual, ...
    Are you talking to me?
    I'm an infrequent poster on this thread, how do you conclude I spam the thread?
    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    you can address the fact that Fauci's email are painting a dodgy picture of what may have gone on in the background.
    I don't have time to read 10,000 emails, so I'll wait and see what those that read them come up with.
    I have an open mind on this. If Fauci is found to have done anything wrong I'll acknowledge it,
    until then I'll stay with my impression that Fauci seems reasonable.

    If you have a reason to think that Fauci's emails paint a dodgy picture please explain why?
    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    I'm glad that mainstream media is finally free to talk. Even Facebook stopped censoring discussions about the origin of Covid
    Since when were the mainstream media not free to talk?
    I've seen discussion on the origin of Covid since it started.

    The theories then were pretty much the same as now,
    a) it could have passed from animal to human, or
    b) it might have been a virus that escaped from a lab


  • #1227
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    same thing


    How? Is a fatal heart attack the same as being bludgeoned to death with a dildo? I mean they both lead to the same outcome.


  • #1228
    Fils
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 293 ✭✭Fils


    link


  • #1229
    Lewis_Benson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    In the first post....

    “Donald Trump recently stated"

    I stopped there.


  • #1230
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    How? Is a fatal heart attack the same as being bludgeoned to death with a dildo? I mean they both lead to the same outcome.


    source?


  • Advertisement
  • #1231
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    source?
    The source of the questions? That would be me. Here's a link for reference.


Advertisement