Covid-19 likely to be man made

patnor1011 · 02-06-2021 04:55PM

There used to be scientific consensus once upon the time that Earth is flat, that nothing heavier than air can fly, that ships of steel will sink, that bathing is dangerous to your health... All of them made by experts in their respective fields backed by their colleagues.
Our scientists suddenly evolved to some supernatural creatures where they are unable to make mistake and some of us sadly evolved in some cult of followers of these unmistakable supernatural beings.

02-06-2021 04:59PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

Our scientists suddenly evolved to some supernatural creatures where they are unable to make mistake and some of us sadly evolved in some cult of followers of these unmistakable supernatural beings.

Again, complete and utterly dishonest misrepresentation.
Only a few posts ago you say banie09 explaining in detail the flaws and foibles in one study.

Ignoring things doesn't mean they stop existing.
Lying about things doesn't change reality.

Mic 1972 · 02-06-2021 05:02PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

There used to be scientific consensus once upon the time that Earth is flat, that nothing heavier than air can fly, that ships of steel will sink, that bathing is dangerous to your health... All of them made by experts in their respective fields backed by their colleagues.
Our scientists suddenly evolved to some supernatural creatures where they are unable to make mistake and some of us sadly evolved in some cult of followers of these unmistakable supernatural beings.

Galileo was a brave man, he insisted the earth was round and didn't even provide the links!

Fils · 02-06-2021 05:03PM

The Chinese variant is tomorrow’s news.

banie01 · 02-06-2021 05:07PM

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Galileo was a brave man, he insisted the earth was round and didn't even provide the links!

But you know what he did provide?
Original research, hypotheses and a provable theory via the methodology available.

Methodology that his contemporaries used to validate his research and to further investigate and experiment with.

So, albeit in 16th century form.
He did provide the links, or if you'd prefer?
He wrote the book!

02-06-2021 05:10PM

banie01 wrote: »

But you know what he did provide?
Original research, hypotheses and a provable theory via the methodology available.

Methodology that his contemporaries used to validate his research and to further investigate and experiment with.

So, albeit in 16th century form.
He did provide the links, or if you'd prefer?
He wrote the book!

It was also heliocentrism, not whether the Earth was round or not.
But why let facts ruin the fun now...?

02-06-2021 05:27PM

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Galileo was a brave man, he insisted the earth was round and didn't even provide the links!

Indeed..
But then these kind of people are always there..
In Catholic Ireland they'd be talking if you weren't at mass.. In Soviet Russia they'd be reporting on their neighbours.. In Nazi Germany they'd be putting the Jews on trains..

astrofool · 02-06-2021 05:31PM

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The lab leak theory does not exclude anything, it just does not address the origin of the virus in the first place

This is why it's so frustrating, this is my third post asking you what your theory is and you keep dodging answering the questions.

Let's completely ignore the lab leak, it seems to set you off in multiple directions, completely gone.

Is there a single shred of evidence to show that the virus, which multiple scientists around the world have studied in depth, has an origin that is not zoonotic?

The answer has to either be a yes, with examples of the evidence, or a simple no.

There is no other available answers to you and any answers other than the above would show that you do not have a coherent theory.

02-06-2021 05:35PM

astrofool wrote: »

This is why it's so frustrating, this is my third post asking you what your theory is and you keep dodging answering the questions.

.

Did that poster not start his thread in the coronavirus forum and post lots of links to many scientists over the course of it?..

banie01 · 02-06-2021 05:39PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did that poster not start his thread in the coronavirus forum and post lots of links to many scientists over the course of it?..

So surely he'd have no issue supporting the claims he is making on this thread then?

It's not up to any other poster to support or evidence his position.
If he, you or I make a claim it is incumbent upon us to evidence it.
Not say "look it up" or actually swerve the question completely.

Honest debate at least? Even if people are approaching a topic from polar opposites.
It is also a mod instruction made recently on thread.

astrofool · 02-06-2021 05:40PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

There is precisely zero evidence that covid-19 is natural, all of the studies you mentioned are riddled with plausible, possible, believable, highly likely and the most ridiculous statement is "scientific consensus" which is nothing but "we think so".
Therefore no facts or evidence.
Nada.

This is just a bizarre response, all available evidence points to a zoonotic origin, there, here is one posted in Nature last year with references and evidence included along with a few possible methods that the virus jumped to humans:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

There is more, but as a starting point, provide evidence that refutes some of the evidence in the peer-reviewed Nature article.

02-06-2021 05:43PM

banie01 wrote: »

So surely he'd have no issue supporting the claims he is making on this thread then?

It's not up to any other poster to support or evidence his position.
If he, you or I make a claim it is incumbent upon us to evidence it.
Not say "look it up" or actually swerve the question completely.

Honest debate at least? Even if people are approaching a topic from polar opposites.
It is also a mod instruction made recently on thread.

So he has to go searching the thread for you?..
I can't now, but search his posts in this thread..go back a few months..

In fairness to him..he did..and didn't realise he would be thrown to the wolves/have his thread moved to conspiracy theories..

There's probably an argument to be made for it to be moved back now instead of being merged here..

02-06-2021 05:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So he has to go searching the thread for you?..
I can't now, but search his posts in this thread..go back a few months..

In fairness to him..he did..and didn't realise he would be thrown to the wolves/have his thread moved to conspiracy theories..

There's probably an argument to be made for it to be moved back now instead of being merged here..

Or they could just point to some of the articles and repost the links to the papers they read.
It's not hard.

But given how much dodging has been going on, the reason you guys aren't providing examples of studies that support the lab origin is very clear.

02-06-2021 05:51PM

King Mob wrote: »

Or they could just point to some of the articles and repost the links to the papers they read.
It's not hard.

But given how much dodging has been going on, the reason you guys aren't providing examples of studies that support the lab origin is very clear.

He has many, many posts doing just that on this thread..

astrofool · 02-06-2021 05:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Did that poster not start his thread in the coronavirus forum and post lots of links to many scientists over the course of it?..

If they did, surely you can provide those links as well? Again, without going too off track, I've just asked for a single shred of evidence on which a theory could be built, nothing has been offered so far for whatever reason, remembering that opinions of scientists (even if they have nobel prizes) are not evidence.

02-06-2021 05:54PM

astrofool wrote: »

If they did, surely you can provide those links as well? Again, without going too off track, I've just asked for a single shred of evidence on which a theory could be built, nothing has been offered so far for whatever reason, remembering that opinions of scientists (even if they have nobel prizes) are not evidence.

It's been merged into this thread..
It's only 90 pages..50 of those are probably King Mob asking people questions, so you can probably skip those..

You'll fly through it..

02-06-2021 05:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He has many, many posts doing just that on this thread..

No he didn't.
That's why you keep dodging the question and keep getting upset when people ask you to provide support to the lab origin idea.

banie01 · 02-06-2021 05:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So he has to go searching the thread for you?..
I can't now, but search his posts in this thread..go back a few months..

In fairness to him..he did..and didn't realise he would be thrown to the wolves/have his thread moved to conspiracy theories..

There's probably an argument to be made for it to be moved back now instead of being merged here..

From Feb 29th last year.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

the only "purpose" i can see for an artificially created virus like this one is to get rid of the elderly. Sad really

31st of May,

Mic 1972 wrote: »

you can find plenty of material in the usual places
the news is slowly making into way onto the mainstream

1st June

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Actually no. The current consensus is that the first investigation is up for debate due to compelling arguments coming from scientists/virologist.

So, that's a complete u-turn from the initial dismissal

And also yesterday.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

People shouldn't spoon-feed you evidence all the time. Especially if the evidence is in your own posts

A pattern of making claims and dismissing any questions regarding supporting their position.

Search is showing 140 posts for Mic on the subforum, none of which on the topic of Covid are providing any evidential basis for a position they've held now for 15 months?

Is it really too much to ask that claims are at least provided a foundation?

02-06-2021 06:00PM

King Mob wrote: »

No he didn't.
That's why you keep dodging the question and keep getting upset when people ask you to provide support to the lab origin idea.

I provided you with a study an hour ago that's just as valid as any of your studies..

02-06-2021 06:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I provided you with a study an hour ago that's just as valid as any of your studies..

But it wasn't though. We explained why it wasn't.

First among which: It hasn't actually been published yet.
Second, it doesn't actually say it supports a lab origin.

Unfortunately, just posting a link doesn't mean you've proven something.

Do you have any other studies beyond that one?
If so, don't beat around the bush. Just post them. Show us up. It should be easy.

02-06-2021 06:10PM

Fauci was told in January 2020 it looked engineered according to his released emails..

Trigger · 02-06-2021 06:12PM

Mod: I've been pretty lenient today on these threads, but any more attacking the poster and not the post and posting rights will swiftly be removed, don't say you haven't been warned

02-06-2021 06:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fauci was told in January 2020 it looked engineered according to his released emails..

Ok. That's a new claim.
What's the source for this?

What did he say? A few posts ago you claimed he said something he didn't, so I suspect that's the case here.

Do you have any studies that support the lab origin?
If so, please provide a link.

Mic 1972 · 02-06-2021 07:25PM

astrofool wrote: »

This is why it's so frustrating, this is my third post asking you what your theory is and you keep dodging answering the questions.

Let's completely ignore the lab leak, it seems to set you off in multiple directions, completely gone.

Is there a single shred of evidence to show that the virus, which multiple scientists around the world have studied in depth, has an origin that is not zoonotic?

The answer has to either be a yes, with examples of the evidence, or a simple no.

There is no other available answers to you and any answers other than the above would show that you do not have a coherent theory.

There is no evidence and i never said there was.
Stop asking for links to things I haven't said

banie01 · 02-06-2021 07:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He has many, many posts doing just that on this thread..

Well funnily enough?
According to himself...

Mic 1972 wrote: »

There is no evidence and i never said there was.
Stop asking for links to things I haven't said

He doesn't.

So where does that leave us?

mcsean2163 · 02-06-2021 09:35PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fauci was told in January 2020 it looked engineered according to his released emails..

Yes good point.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ydeigin/status/1399898755500068865/photo/1

"inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory"

And yet anyone suggesting that even a natural origin could have leaked from a lab were branded conspiracy theorists by the same team...

Dohnjoe · 02-06-2021 10:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fauci was told in January 2020 it looked engineered according to his released emails..

Source for this?

Below is one of his latest comments, May 25th 2021

"As I've said many times: Many of us feel that it is more likely that this is a natural occurrence, as has happened with SARS-CoV-1, where it goes from an animal reservoir to a human. But we don't know 100 percent the answer to that," Fauci said. "So, because we don't know 100 percent what the origin is, it's imperative that we look and we do an investigation."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/05/25/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-39/

saneman · 02-06-2021 10:39PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Yes good point.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ydeigin/status/1399898755500068865/photo/1

"inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory"

And yet anyone suggesting that even a natural origin could have leaked from a lab were branded conspiracy theorists by the same team...

The following line is also important " But we have to look at this much more closely and there are still further analyses to be done, so those opinions could still change."

And he answers that himself (given that the email above was from Jan 2020):

https://mobile.twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1377826269098766337

https://mobile.twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1377830426048262148

https://mobile.twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1377830427289772032

https://mobile.twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1377830428493508609

The paper in question, which he co-authored, being this one, "The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2" published on 17-03-2020 in Nature Medicine:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

"Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus, it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here. However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible."

Those other theories being:
1. Natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer
2. Natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer

saneman · 02-06-2021 10:49PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Source for this?

Below is one of his latest comments, May 25th 2021

"As I've said many times: Many of us feel that it is more likely that this is a natural occurrence, as has happened with SARS-CoV-1, where it goes from an animal reservoir to a human. But we don't know 100 percent the answer to that," Fauci said. "So, because we don't know 100 percent what the origin is, it's imperative that we look and we do an investigation."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/05/25/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-39/

I'm presuming they mean the email from Kristian G. Andersen, it can be found here (specifically page 3187):

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20793561/leopold-nih-foia-anthony-fauci-emails.pdf

"The unusual features of the virus make up a really small part of the genome (<0.1%) so one has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered."

...noting the word "potentially" ofc... especially given the subsequent paper in March

TefalBrain · 03-06-2021 11:41AM

Surely this needs to be moved from the conspiracy theories section? This is now the most likely scenario according to numerous sources.

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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