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Covid-19 likely to be man made

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Comments

  • #1082
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    More mainstream media coming out of the fog

    What fog? They are following evidence, not the flinging sh1t against the wall strategy of conspiracy theorists.


  • #1083
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    silliussoddius wrote: »
    What fog? They are following evidence, not the flinging sh1t against the wall strategy of conspiracy theorists.




    well, that evidence was previously labelled a conspiracy ;-)
    it's great to finally see the mainstream media embracing it.
    I'm looking forward to new evidence


  • #1084
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    well, that evidence was previously labelled a conspiracy ;-)
    it's great to finally see the mainstream media embracing it.
    I'm looking forward to new evidence

    Evidence of any kind regarding the origin of Covid19 and it's leap to man would be very welcome.

    The theory of 3 lab employees infected in Wuhan in November is both interesting and compelling.
    There are many reasons to think it's a silver bullet.

    There is however a glaring issue with it.
    Whilst noone is disputing that Wuhan is the source and seed of the outbreak.
    Italian research and review of samples has pointed to Covid circulating there as early as Sept 2019 and established in some lung cancer and pneumonia patients throughout October.
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755

    Now that doesn't mean Italy is the source, there is even some commentary on the reporting calling the earliest detection in to question but no study I can find as of yet to refute it.

    If Covid was circulating in Italy (and Italy does have a very busy trade and travel corridor with Wuhan).
    How does the November infection of Wuhan Lab employees play into the timing and seeding of the outbreak?
    It's 2 months later than the earliest European infection.

    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-circulating-italy-earlier-thought.html

    There are also confirmed infections in Paris in December 2019 that was confirmed on review of the samples in 2020.

    The virus was circulating long before November and there may well be a slew of deaths and infections that were misdiagnosed as flu or pneumonia that will need to have their sample histology and history reviewed.

    The issue with the earlier confirmed circulation though?
    Is that it undermines the theory that the Wuhan lab 3 are a patient 0.

    There needs to be a reassessment of the timeline of the spread and of samples of all patients deceased with flu and pneumonia from 2019 flu season on to try and identify the earliest infections.


  • #1085
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    And if it was accidentally released, was it then discovered it was released and covered up? If yes, then obviously that's big. If no, then there's a big issue over security controls etc


  • #1086
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    banie01 wrote: »
    Evidence of any kind regarding the origin of Covid19 and it's leap to man would be very welcome.

    The theory of 3 lab employees infected in Wuhan in November is both interesting and compelling.
    There are many reasons to think it's a silver bullet.

    There is however a glaring issue with it.
    Whilst noone is disputing that Wuhan is the source and seed of the outbreak.
    Italian research and review of samples has pointed to Covid circulating there as early as Sept 2019 and established in some lung cancer and pneumonia patients throughout October.
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755

    Now that doesn't mean Italy is the source, there is even some commentary on the reporting calling the earliest detection in to question but no study I can find as of yet to refute it.

    If Covid was circulating in Italy (and Italy does have a very busy trade and travel corridor with Wuhan).
    How does the November infection of Wuhan Lab employees play into the timing and seeding of the outbreak?
    It's 2 months later than the earliest European infection.

    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-circulating-italy-earlier-thought.html

    There are also confirmed infections in Paris in December 2019 that was confirmed on review of the samples in 2020.

    The virus was circulating long before November and there may well be a slew of deaths and infections that were misdiagnosed as flu or pneumonia that will need to have their sample histology and history reviewed.

    The issue with the earlier confirmed circulation though?
    Is that it undermines the theory that the Wuhan lab 3 are a patient 0.

    There needs to be a reassessment of the timeline of the spread and of samples of all patients deceased with flu and pneumonia from 2019 flu season on to try and identify the earliest infections.


    Other scientists could have been infected prior to November without developing symptoms and could have spread the virus around Wuhan. It's not unthinkable of considering how many people got nothing more than flue symptoms.

    In fact if Covid was around Italy in September and nobody noticed anything strange it's because nobody including doctors couldn't tell the difference between an unknown disease like Covid and a normal flue.
    As far as we know Covid could have escaped the lab sometime in mid 2019 without anyone realizing that people were being infected by something else that wasnt flue


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  • #1087
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Other scientists could have been infected prior to November without developing symptoms and could have spread the virus around Wuhan. It's not unthinkable of considering how many people got nothing more than flue symptoms.

    Possibly, but without evidence this is speculation
    As far as we know Covid could have escaped the lab sometime in mid 2019 without anyone realizing that people were being infected by something else that wasnt flue

    Likewise, this is also speculation

    Note that both cases tend towards the lab-leak theory, as if that outcome has already been chosen.


  • #1088
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Other scientists could have been infected prior to November without developing symptoms and could have spread the virus around Wuhan. It's not unthinkable of considering how many people got nothing more than flue symptoms.

    It's not unthinkable, neither is faster than light travel.
    However if I want to present a theory in the topic?
    Some maths, a theory and perhaps even an experiment would all be required.
    The method at hand by some posters here is to present an idea, and defend it with "it's not unthinkable".

    You might as well smear shít on a wall and call it art.
    It is pointless.
    Dismissing the earliest suspected Wuhan Lab infection, on the basis of "other scientists could have spread it"?
    Carries as much weight as the Nazi's having a base on the moon!
    Because they had rockets and didn't Von Braun build them?


    Just because the lab exists? Does not mean the outbreak came from there and though it is certainly a possibility?
    So are Nazi's on the moon!
    In the absence of evidence to the contrary? Any inference can be extended to some outlandish conclusions.

    The US are reviewing the Data, with the Brits assistance and want a report in 90days.
    What's also interesting though, and I've not seen discussed?
    Is that the Biden admin binned the Trump investigation amid concerns around the standard of its evidence. The evidence that Trump and Pompei relied on for their claim, is binned as unreliable.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/05/26/biden-team-shut-down-secretive-trump-era-project-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/
    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    In fact if Covid was around Italy in September and nobody noticed anything strange it's because nobody including doctors couldn't tell the difference between an unknown disease like Covid and a normal flue.
    Not really, as its initial victims were in the Italian example at least suffering from co-morbidity that caused severe respiratory distress and the search for an alternative diagnosed was likely masked by Dr's treating what they thought was something else.
    Hence the review of the earlier samples and the discovery.

    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    As far as we know Covid could have escaped the lab sometime in mid 2019 without anyone realizing that people were being infected by something else that wasnt flue

    Who's we?
    Your rambling and disjointed proclamations aren't evidence, and tbh they aren't even much of a theory.
    You seem to jump from it being unlikely that a virus was circulating in Italy without being flagged that the Docs are at fault, whilst ignoring the co-morbidity in the study I cited?
    To in your final paragraph, continuing the claim that the virus escaped the lab in mid-2019?
    The earliest suspected Wuhan lab employee hospitalisations are in November.

    Assuming or alleging an earlier leak requires evidence.
    Maybe the yanks will present some, but given you are galloping on with your thought experiment and claiming an even earlier than Nov leak?
    Where's yours?


  • #1089
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    You seem to ask the same questions over and over in every thread. Do you read anything outside of Boards? because if you do you won't need to beg for links and source all the time.

    Kinda have to ask the same questions over and over again because you folks keep ignoring, dodging and running away from them.


  • #1090
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So what happens if the American investigation doesn't find anything to support the lab leak idea? What if it directly states that the lab leak idea isn't true?

    Will the conspiracy theory shift again?

    Conspiracy folks seem to be putting a lot of faith in the American intelligence services and the mainstream media about this claim. But I think the moment that they don't help support the conspiracy theory explanation, we'll be suddenly hearing about how they're part of the conspiracy again.


  • #1091
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    King Mob wrote: »
    So what happens if the American investigation doesn't find anything to support the lab leak idea? What if it directly states that the lab leak idea isn't true?

    Will the conspiracy theory shift again?

    Conspiracy folks seem to be putting a lot of faith in the American intelligence services and the mainstream media about this claim. But I think the moment that they don't help support the conspiracy theory explanation, we'll be suddenly hearing about how they're part of the conspiracy again.

    You know as well as I do that if that happens?
    The goalposts will just shift again to some other cover up explanation.

    I know I only mentioned it a couple of posts ago, but it bears repeating IMO.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/05/26/biden-team-shut-down-secretive-trump-era-project-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/

    The evidence that Trump and Pompeo relied upon to lay blame on deliberate Chinese actions has been binned by the Biden admin and the Investigation team that delivered that intel and assessment has been disbanded.

    The Biden Admin cited poor quality of evidence and work.
    The new Biden intel review is just as much a quality check against the data and conclusions raised in the shuttered investigation, as it is an effort to find the smoking gun of Chinese complicity.

    The Trump admin probe seems to have started from an assumption that the virus was engineered as a Bio-weapon.
    That's not how any investigation should work.
    Find evidence and let it lead you to a conclusion.
    Not create a theory and find and shape evidence to fit!

    KEY FACTS
    The undisclosed project, run out of the arms control unit and led by then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, was established in late 2020 to investigate the possibility a Chinese bioweapons lab played a role in the pandemic’s origin, CNN reports, citing sources familiar with the matter.

    It was swiftly shuttered by Biden’s team after they were briefed in February and March, CNN reports, citing concerns over the quality of the work and being a poor use of resources.

    One former State Department official familiar with the project told CNN the way the team conducted its work was secretive and “suspicious as hell,” cutting out the Department’s technical experts and the intelligence community, prematurely briefing senior officials before work had concluded and, according to another source, excising experts critical of their science.

    Those involved with the project defended the work, according to CNN, pointing to a close collaboration with the intelligence community and the deliberate use of “dissenting perspectives.”

    Ned Price, a State Department spokesperson, disputed CNN’s reporting in an email to Forbes, acknowledging the project but denying its cancellation.

    Price said the team’s work on the origins of the pandemic concluded when the team briefed the new administration and the group has switched its focus to other arms control work in the unit’s portfolio.

    CRUCIAL QUOTE
    “China’s position that their part in this investigation is complete is disappointing,” Price told Forbes. Price said China’s position is “at odds with the rest of the international community,” which still has “serious questions about the earliest days” of the pandemic and its origins.

    KEY BACKGROUND
    There is no clear evidence supporting the theory Covid-19 came from a lab—especially, as Pompeo’s program explored, an illegal biological weapons program—but the theory has gained ground in recent weeks as more and more experts highlight that it cannot be ruled out without more information and a rigorous investigation. China’s lack of transparency on the issue has infuriated world leaders, who argue it is needlessly hindering a vital investigation for the world’s recovery, both during the official investigation into the pandemic’s origins and its obscuring during the early days of the pandemic. The continued uncertainty has fueled calls for another more open investigation that revisits China and is able to adequately address all theories on Covid’s origins.

    TANGENT
    The investigation began a long time after Trump and Pompeo claimed to have substantial evidence supporting the theory, evidence that has still not been produced. Trump has said he is near certain the disease leaked from the lab after referencing the Journal article.

    WHAT TO WATCH FOR
    The State Department is still working to investigate the lab leak hypothesis, according to a spokesperson speaking to CNN, who also confirmed the closure of the Trump-era inquiry. Pressure is also mounting on the international stage for another, freer probe into the pandemic’s origins. This is something China is unlikely to sanction, especially in light of the resurgent lab theory it vehemently rejects.


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  • #1092
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    banie01 wrote: »
    You know as well as I do that if that happens?
    The goalposts will just shift again to some other cover up explanation.
    Yea, but it will be funny if some people say that they won't do this now, but then later do anyway when the investigation doesn't turn out in their favour.


  • #1093
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    King Mob wrote: »
    Yea, but it will be funny if some people say that they won't do this now, but then later do anyway when the investigation doesn't turn out in their favour.

    You sound worried about the potential outcome of the investigation.


  • #1094
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    banie01 wrote: »
    It's not unthinkable, neither is faster than light travel.
    However if I want to present a theory in the topic?
    Some maths, a theory and perhaps even an experiment would all be required.
    The method at hand by some posters here is to present an idea, and defend it with "it's not unthinkable".

    You might as well smear shít on a wall and call it art.
    It is pointless.
    Dismissing the earliest suspected Wuhan Lab infection, on the basis of "other scientists could have spread it"?
    Carries as much weight as the Nazi's having a base on the moon!
    Because they had rockets and didn't Von Braun build them?


    Just because the lab exists? Does not mean the outbreak came from there and though it is certainly a possibility?
    So are Nazi's on the moon!
    In the absence of evidence to the contrary? Any inference can be extended to some outlandish conclusions.

    The US are reviewing the Data, with the Brits assistance and want a report in 90days.
    What's also interesting though, and I've not seen discussed?
    Is that the Biden admin binned the Trump investigation amid concerns around the standard of its evidence. The evidence that Trump and Pompei relied on for their claim, is binned as unreliable.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/05/26/biden-team-shut-down-secretive-trump-era-project-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/


    Not really, as its initial victims were in the Italian example at least suffering from co-morbidity that caused severe respiratory distress and the search for an alternative diagnosed was likely masked by Dr's treating what they thought was something else.
    Hence the review of the earlier samples and the discovery.




    Who's we?
    Your rambling and disjointed proclamations aren't evidence, and tbh they aren't even much of a theory.
    You seem to jump from it being unlikely that a virus was circulating in Italy without being flagged that the Docs are at fault, whilst ignoring the co-morbidity in the study I cited?
    To in your final paragraph, continuing the claim that the virus escaped the lab in mid-2019?
    The earliest suspected Wuhan lab employee hospitalisations are in November.

    Assuming or alleging an earlier leak requires evidence.
    Maybe the yanks will present some, but given you are galloping on with your thought experiment and claiming an even earlier than Nov leak?
    Where's yours?


    The only rambling I see is in your post


    Wuhan scientists being taken to hospital in November is not evidence that Covid couldn't have escaped the lab prior to that, since it's universally recognized that the virus can produce very mind symptoms in most people.


    As far as we know Covid could have been spreading as early as mid 2019, and the Italian cases from September 2029 may be an indication that this was the case


  • #1095
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    The only rambling I see is in your post


    Wuhan scientists being taken to hospital in November is not evidence that Covid couldn't have escaped the lab prior to that, since it's universally recognized that the virus can produce very mind symptoms in most people.


    As far as we know Covid could have been spreading as early as mid 2019, and the Italian cases from September 2029 may be an indication that this was the case

    Great rebuttal ;) and very illustrative of the fact that you have zero idea, zero thesis and zero evidence other than an urge to blame "China".

    Let's be clear, conspiracy and cover up do happen but when the folk such as yourself base their "theories" on whataboutery and yeah but?

    It does actual conspiracy the great service of being shielded by outright stupidity.
    Conspiracy can't hide in the light of investigation or evidence, but put a few incoherent idiots on the case and it quickly becomes far easier to point at the Kooks.


  • #1096
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I don't think anyone in here is claiming it's man-made or genetically altered.


    Actually, a number of biologists and virologist are saying exactly that. Only, this hasn't been confirmed by an official investigation


  • #1097
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    banie01 wrote: »
    Great rebuttal ;) and very illustrative of the fact that you have zero idea, zero thesis and zero evidence other than an urge to blame "China".

    Let's be clear, conspiracy and cover up do happen but when the folk such as yourself base their "theories" on whataboutery and yeah but?

    It does actual conspiracy the great service of being shielded by outright stupidity.
    Conspiracy can't hide in the light of investigation or evidence, but put a few incoherent idiots on the case and it quickly becomes far easier to point at the Kooks.


    No idea what you are after here, I cant be bothered with blaming China
    I'm interested in the opinion of virologists and biologists who know more than random forum posters


  • #1098
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    No idea what you are after here, I cant be bothered with blaming China
    I'm interested in the opinion of virologists and biologists who know more than random forum posters

    Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

    Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

    Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
    Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
    What evidential basis and research are they using?

    Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
    Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.


  • #1099
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Actually, a number of biologists and virologist are saying exactly that. Only, this hasn't been confirmed by an official investigation
    As promised from the other thread, just so we can all be clear what the basis of your thoughts are.
    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    No idea what you are after here, I cant be bothered with blaming China
    I'm interested in the opinion of virologists and biologists who know more than random forum posters

    Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

    Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

    Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
    Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
    What evidential basis and research are they using?

    Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
    Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.


  • #1100
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Actually, a number of biologists and virologist are saying exactly that. Only, this hasn't been confirmed by an official investigation

    There are always individual experts who have contrarian opinions, which is why we look at the consensus (majority) of experts and see what they are saying

    The current consensus is that its not man-made or genetically altered in any way


  • #1101
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    banie01 wrote: »
    Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

    Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

    Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
    Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
    What evidential basis and research are they using?

    Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
    Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.


    Look. Them. Up

    It is assumed that if you are entering a conversation about a specific subject you have done your homework and you are up to speed with what information is being discussed in the outside world.


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  • #1102
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    There are always individual experts who have contrarian opinions, which is why we look at the consensus (majority) of experts and see what they are saying

    The current consensus is that its not man-made or genetically altered in any way


    That inst the general consensus. That is the opinion of some, which up until a month ago was also the only truth we were told.
    Luckily more scientists are finally being allowed to talk


  • #1103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    You sound worried about the potential outcome of the investigation.
    No. Why would I be worried?

    Notice how you don't actually answer my question.
    What happens if the investigation doesn't support your conspiracy beliefs?
    What if it says that there's no evidence or that the lab origin isn't true?

    Will you accept that?


  • #1104
    dickdasr1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234


    banie01 wrote: »
    Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

    Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

    Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
    Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
    What evidential basis and research are they using?

    Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
    Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.
    Holymudderajaysus, neither of you twits can properly construct a sentence!


  • #1105
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Look. Them. Up

    It is assumed that if you are entering a conversation about a specific subject you have done your homework and you are up to speed with what information is being discussed in the outside world.

    Just so I can be crystal clear.
    Are you refusing to cite any papers in support of your position and hiding behind the BS of the above?


  • #1106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    That inst the general consensus. That is the opinion of some, which up until a month ago was also the only truth we were told.
    Luckily more scientists are finally being allowed to talk

    Ok. What studies have there been that show that the virus was man made?

    Please link to the papers directly.


  • #1107
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    That inst the general consensus. That is the opinion of some, which up until a month ago was also the only truth we were told.
    Luckily more scientists are finally being allowed to talk

    You seem to be getting confused:

    Theory 1: The virus came directly from a host (e.g. a bat), or an intermediate host (e.g. a mink) via zoonotic transmission
    Theory 2: The virus was being studied in a lab and was accidentally leaked by a worker

    Some people are conflating the 2nd theory with another theory completely, that the virus was manufactured in a lab, for which there's no consensus

    As for your personal claim that "scientists are finally being allowed to talk", international experts have been sharing their opinions of this since the beginning of the pandemic, which scientists were being muzzled by whom?


  • #1108
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    banie01 wrote: »
    Just so I can be crystal clear.
    Are you refusing to cite any papers in support of your position and hiding behind the BS of the above?


    I'm just tired of the usual people begging for links.

    You sound like you have been locked inside this boards with no access to the outside world.


  • #1109
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You seem to be getting confused:

    Theory 1: The virus came directly from a host (e.g. a bat), or an intermediate host (e.g. a mink) via zoonotic transmission
    Theory 2: The virus was being studied in a lab and was accidentally leaked by a worker

    Some people are conflating the 2nd theory with another theory completely, that the virus was manufactured in a lab, for which there's no consensus

    As for your personal claim that "scientists are finally being allowed to talk", international experts have been sharing their opinions of this since the beginning of the pandemic, which scientists were being muzzled by whom?


    i stand by my original post, your summary looks inaccurate


  • #1110
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    I'm just tired of the usual people begging for links.

    You sound like you have been locked inside this boards with no access to the outside world.

    So that's a yes.
    It is a convention of honest debate and exchange, particularly on a contentious issue that where one seeks to rely on evidence, papers or studies.
    That they cite them, they debate honestly.

    That seems far beyond your ken.
    As for where I'm locked, it certainly isn't boards and far too much of my time is unfortunately spent reading evidence and academic opinion across a broad range of topics.


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  • #1111
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,910 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    I'm just tired of the usual people begging for links.

    You sound like you have been locked inside this boards with no access to the outside world.

    People are not "begging for links"


    They are asking you to show evidence for your claims, something you refuse to do time and time again.

    Without proof of your claims how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?


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