Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio · 24-05-2021 10:23pm #1

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

lashes34 · 24-05-2021 10:34pm

No idea what the reaction was in the mentioned companies but imagine it's going to be common from now on. I don't think it's going to be enforced in our office but the boss said he doesn't care where we work as long as it gets done. Personally I'll mainly work from home but it suits me better.

If there is 50% space then I'm sure you can request working from the office, it may not be approved but push it if that's what works for you.

floorpie · 24-05-2021 10:40pm

I'm also hearing rumours of the same thing in my place.

Will I be paid for the company's use of my facilities (room, equipment, electricity, heating etc)? Or is this essentially a permanent pay cut and worse conditions?

I'm especially annoyed that it seems like they'll mandate a day or two in office a week. So not only will the employer get free use of my rented house, but I can't even move to a low cost area of the country.

I'm very annoyed by the whole thing but it seems most people are in favour of WFH.

24-05-2021 10:42pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are changing from assigned desks in work to all hot desks that must be booked in advance, thats all

If you want to go to the office, book a desk, thats it

Or am I missing something?

24-05-2021 10:48pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

Hot desks have been standard in loads of companies for a long time. Once you have accounted for those on holiday plus those that want to stay home some days, then you’ll find that you need many fewer desks than staff. Google and Facebook, like many MNCs, will have been doing flexible working for many years

Just because there are 50% fewer desks than people, it doesn’t follow that you will only be able to go into the office 50% of the time

In fact, it makes no sense for any company to maintain 1 desk per person. Just a waste of money

Padre_Pio · 24-05-2021 10:49pm

From what I've been told, the hot desk system is like a library. Not guaranteed the same desk, so I'll have to bring everything in and out of work each day. I have equipment that's not very portable too, so I'll need a trolley. About a quarter of the staff are in the same boat as me.

There was talk that the quarter would have permanent desk space (which also comes with storage and shelves) but that leaves 75% of employees vying for 25% of the space, so it was denied.

I'll have to see how things pan out, but it feels like a kick in the teeth after a year of working from home with COVID. I was prepared to give up space in my house, since there was no option, but I feel like I'm being taken advantage of now.

Darc19 · 24-05-2021 10:54pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

From what I've been told, the hot desk system is like a library. Not guaranteed the same desk, so I'll have to bring everything in and out of work each day. I have equipment that's not very portable too, so I'll need a trolley. About a quarter of the staff are in the same boat as me.
I'll have to see how things pan out, but it feels like a kick in the teeth after a year of working from home with COVID. I was prepared to give up space in my house, since there was no option, but I feel like I'm being taken advantage of now.

That's how hot desking works.

Many people are afraid of change, but a few months later they wonder why it wasn't done years ago.

Covid has advanced change dramatically and it has been beneficial to most people.

floorpie · 24-05-2021 10:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hot desks have been standard in loads of companies for a long time.

They've been standard in some places but you were essentially assured a space to work, which you wouldn't be here. As OP said, your permanent desk is now expected to be in your home. Has this been standard anywhere in e.g. Dublin pre-Covid?

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are changing from assigned desks in work to all hot desks that must be booked in advance, thats all

If you want to go to the office, book a desk, thats it

Or am I missing something?

Yes you're missing that you wont be guaranteed a space and therefore your desk is now expected to be in your home, and you'll cover the associated costs for the company.

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2021 10:59pm

Are people that commute to work not delighted to have 2+ hours extra every day of time back by working from home? (plus associated cost savings) .

Can a raise to cover higher bills directly resulting from work not be negotiated, especially seeing as the company will be making large savings?

Stark · 24-05-2021 11:01pm

Before covid there were laws that meant the employer had to ensure an employee had an ergonomic workspace at home before they were allowed WFH on a regular basis. Obviously all that got waived with pandemic emergency but I imagine that duty of care will return once the pandemic is over.

I imagine for young employees living in shared rented accommodation, their at-home workspaces are far from meeting the ergonomic requirements.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are people that commute to work not delighted to have 2+ hours extra every day of time back by working from home? (plus associated cost savings) .

I imagine people will largely fall into two camps. Older workers with families living in the commuter belt who will probably appreciate the increased flexibility of WFH when it comes to school/creche runs, not having to commute etc. And the younger workers living in cramped accommodation closer to the city who will want to get out of the house and into an environment that's setup for working and opportunities to socialise.

24-05-2021 11:04pm

floorpie wrote: »

They've been standard in some places but you were essentially assured a space to work, which you wouldn't be here. As OP said, your permanent desk is now expected to be in your home. Has this been standard anywhere in e.g. Dublin pre-Covid?

Yes you're missing that you wont be guaranteed a space and therefore your desk is now expected to be in your home, and you'll cover the associated costs for the company.

That’s not quite true: the only way that you’d be 100% assured a place to work is 1 desk per employee. Hotdesking relies on not everyone coming in for one reason or another.....either working from home a couple of days or on holiday or just a day off. If everyone come in, then not everyone has a desk.....as is the case in any hotdesking scenario. So, by definition, your only guaranteed desk is your home.

The other advantage is that it massively cuts down on waste. As you don’t have your own desk, and limited storage space, I found that I immediately started printing less and gathered less clutter.

limnam · 24-05-2021 11:06pm

Stark wrote: »

Before covid there were laws that meant the employer had to ensure an employee had an ergonomic workspace at home before they were allowed WFH on a regular basis. Obviously all that got waived with pandemic emergency but I imagine that duty of care will return once the pandemic is over.

I imagine for young employees living in shared rented accommodation, their at-home workspaces are far from meeting the ergonomic requirements.

Can see it now.

Guard pulling outside the house.

Well now boss. We've a warrant here to take a look at that secret lab chair we saw in your window to see if it's ergonomic like.

floorpie · 24-05-2021 11:08pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are people that commute to work not delighted to have 2+ hours extra every day of time back by working from home? (plus associated cost savings) .

It seems to me that people with kids, or who have nice offices at home, love it.

Personally I'd rather a commute than having to be in my bedroom for 18+ hours a day, and I can't believe companies seem to be segueing into this being "normal" and others defending it

GT89 · 24-05-2021 11:10pm

limnam wrote: »

Can see it now.

Guard pulling outside the house.

Well now boss. We've a warrant here to take a look at that secret lab chair we saw in your window to see if it's ergonomic like.

Would be down to the HSA and WRC not the Gardai I'd imagine

micar · 24-05-2021 11:11pm

My company had two offices in Dublin....1 city centre and other off the M50.

Lease on the city centre office was not renewed late last year.

The other office has space for maybe 500 out of a total of 800.

WFH 3 days a week and office 2 days a week will be norm going forward.

It will suit most people.

The office off M50 has remained open throughout and some of the guys always went in rather than WFH.

Don't think WFH would be in most people's contracts.

Most people are glad of the flexibility

blindsider · 24-05-2021 11:12pm

Stark wrote: »

Before covid there were laws that meant the employer had to ensure an employee had an ergonomic workspace at home before they were allowed WFH on a regular basis. Obviously all that got waived with pandemic emergency but I imagine that duty of care will return once the pandemic is over.

When did it get waived? I don't remember seeing that in the legislation...maybe I missed it...

Do you have any links etc to support this?

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2021 11:12pm

Stark wrote: »

I imagine people will largely fall into two camps. Older workers with families living in the commuter belt who will probably appreciate the increased flexibility of WFH when it comes to school/creche runs, not having to commute etc. And the younger workers living in cramped accommodation closer to the city who will want to get out of the house and into an environment that's setup for working and opportunities to socialise.

The second group could use the opportunity to move out a bit further to have more space maybe? No need to commute 5 days a week to work so swap it for 1 or 2 longer trips to socialise at the weekend.

floorpie · 24-05-2021 11:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s not quite true: the only way that you’d be 100% assured a place to work is 1 desk per employee. Hotdesking relies on not everyone coming in for one reason or another.....either working from home a couple of days or on holiday or just a day off. If everyone come in, then not everyone has a desk.....as is the case in any hotdesking scenario. So, by definition, your only guaranteed desk is your home.

The only places I'm aware of that had 100% hot desking, people were on shifts, so they were assured a space. I'm also aware of other places that were in-part permanent and in-part hot desks, but the hot desks were for people who the company knew would likely not be in, so in effect, everyone was assured a space.

In either case you didn't have to book your hot desk. What's being discussed here is different, which is your permanent desk is at home.

The other advantage is that it massively cuts down on waste. As you don’t have our own desk, and limited storage space, I found that I immediately started printing less and gathered less clutter.

I have limited space in my home also and do not want to clutter it with my company's equipment.

The DayDream · 24-05-2021 11:14pm

They're taking advantage of you by making it so you can basically live your entire life in pajamas if you choose?

You could always find a job in retail, restaurants, hotels etc if you like being away from home so much. And of course there is always the mines, if the conditions of working from a home office are so oppressive.

limnam · 24-05-2021 11:14pm

GT89 wrote: »

Would be down to the HSA and WRC not the Gardai I'd imagine

How many houses have either knocked on before the pandemic looking for ergonomic reports of home workers?

listermint · 24-05-2021 11:14pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

From what I've been told, the hot desk system is like a library. Not guaranteed the same desk, so I'll have to bring everything in and out of work each day. I have equipment that's not very portable too, so I'll need a trolley. About a quarter of the staff are in the same boat as me.

There was talk that the quarter would have permanent desk space (which also comes with storage and shelves) but that leaves 75% of employees vying for 25% of the space.

I'll have to see how things pan out, but it feels like a kick in the teeth after a year of working from home with COVID. I was prepared to give up space in my house, since there was no option, but I feel like I'm being taken advantage of now.

I may be taking this entirely wrong but your saying your are in a group of staff that most likely will not be impacted at all by this as your more than likely getting a permanent desk due to the nature of your work and equipment...

.what's the problem.

ari101 · 24-05-2021 11:15pm

I want back in office myself. The routine incl. the commute, sociability, leaving work behind where I can't see it, is part of my mental health. I expect I will have that choice though where I am now, but if I move, I'll be looking for a job with 3+ days a week in office.

Hot desking should come with peripherals and a set up you can dock into IMO, if it is to work efficiently. With the need to process and review data, for example, a laptop screen is just not big enough to do it efficiently, a separate screen is really required. With a riser and separate keyboard you can fix some of the ergonomics but the screen is too small far away for ease of sight/use for some work. And then docking stations are brand/laptop specific which makes them a problem to fit for hotdesks if your workforce have varied equipment.

In Dublin commuting requires carrying gear without a car for a lot, which is just not feasible beyond a laptop and charger regularly. It's a mine field.

I do think wfh has perks to offset some of the 'costs' in facility terms (save on the commute cost and time, no buying lunch out or pre preparing it in morn, get short house chores done during day on breaks) but gosh I also want my dining table back. And if you share a home are you expected to work from bedroom or take up shared space forever, or pay rent for an extra room for an office? Business need to consider that just because they want to kick us out doesn't mean we have realistic places to go. For some people it works well, let them stay home.

floorpie · 24-05-2021 11:15pm

The DayDream wrote: »

You could always find a job in retail, restaurants, hotels etc if you like being away from home so much. And of course there is always the mines, if the conditions of working from a home office are so oppressive.

What home office are you talking about? People are working from kitchen tables and all sorts on my Zoom calls.

Stark · 24-05-2021 11:17pm

blindsider wrote: »

When did it get waived? I don't remember seeing that in the legislation...maybe I missed it...

Do you have any links etc to support this?

My bad. It seems employers still have the same duty of care to remote employees during the pandemic as in normal times. Sounds like this isn't being enforced though judging from all the stories of people working from kitchen chairs in bedrooms and the like and nothing being done about it.

Padre_Pio · 24-05-2021 11:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So, by definition, your only guaranteed desk is your home.

The other advantage is that it massively cuts down on waste. As you don’t have your own desk, and limited storage space, I found that I immediately started printing less and gathered less clutter.

This is my issue. I don't want to work from home, or live in work as someone more eloquently put it.
I want to work in a place of work, go to lunch with my colleagues, clock out at 5pm and head home.

I get that hotdesking works for people whose work fits into a backpack, but mine does not.

It bugs me that someone saw massive savings in downsizing a building and pushed the costs of office space onto their staff.

It also worries me that my lease, and I believe nearly every other lease and rental agreement prohibits conducting business from the house. Now, I know this has not been enforced, but I'm sure it may be an easy way for a landlord to initiate an eviction if it ever came to pass.

listermint wrote: »

I may be taking this entirely wrong but your saying your are in a group of staff that most likely will not be impacted at all by this as your more than likely getting a permanent desk due to the nature of your work and equipment...

.what's the problem.

We asked for permanent desks and were denied.
Basically say 200 employees, 100 desks.
50 employees need a permanent desk for laptops, monitors, equipment etc (in our opinion), so that leaves 50 desks for 150 employees, which was a no go.

limnam · 24-05-2021 11:18pm

Stark wrote: »

My bad. It seems employers still have the same duty of care to remote employees during the pandemic as in normal times. Sounds like this isn't being enforced though judging from all the stories of people working from kitchen chairs in bedrooms and the like and nothing being done about it.

Was it enforced pre-Covid?

wally1990 · 24-05-2021 11:21pm

floorpie wrote: »

What home office are you talking about? People are working from kitchen tables and all sorts on my Zoom calls.

Yup, I live with wife , my sister and 5 year old niece and 3 dogs now In a smallish house in an estate
I work at the kitchen table
Sister works in the front room
Wife works in the bedroom on the bed
Nightmare for me as a manager of a team and constantly on calls with clients and colleague's
Dogs constantly barking at any noise ,
Niece in and out of the kitchen after 2pm from school
Wife or sister making lunch or tea (we have different shifts )
Can't wait to get back to the office

ineedeuro · 24-05-2021 11:23pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

This is my issue. I don't want to work from home, or live in work as someone more eloquently put it.
I want to work in a place of work, go to lunch with my colleagues, clock out at 5pm and head home.

I get that hotdesking works for people whose work fits into a backpack, but mine does not.

It bugs me that someone saw massive savings in downsizing a building and pushed the costs of office space onto their staff.

It also worries me that my lease, and I believe nearly every other lease and rental agreement prohibits conducting business from the house. Now, I know this has not been enforced, but I'm sure it may be an easy way for a landlord to initiate an eviction if it ever came to pass.

We asked for permanent desks and were denied.
Basically say 200 employees, 100 desks.
50 employees need a permanent desk for laptops, equipment etc (in our opinion), so that leaves 50 desks for 150 employees, which was a no go.

You will find your lease means you can’t run a business from the house/apartment

It will not say you can’t work from home.

Padre_Pio · 24-05-2021 11:27pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

You will find your lease means you can’t run a business from the house/apartment

It will not say you can’t work from home.

"not to permit any business, trade or profession on or from the property"

Vague as it gets, but you could argue WFH violates that.

ineedeuro · 24-05-2021 11:31pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

"not to permit any business, trade or profession on or from the property"

Vague as it gets, but you could argue WFH violates that.

You could argue. Not sure who would agree with you

ari101 · 24-05-2021 11:32pm

limnam wrote: »

Was it enforced pre-Covid?

No, but I think a lot of employees were so happy the company agreed to their desire to WFH so they set themselves up with a good desk etc. They wanted to be at home and didn't push for more than the agreement that they could do so longer term. Either that or like all of those with flexible employers we did a day here or there when something came up and no one minded because we weren't going to injure ourselves doing one day in the dodgy kitchen chair in our bedroom leaning over the chest of drawers.

Maybe I'm wrong but that was my experience of people around me working from home. Not saying it is correct either just my take on what used to happen.

People have, in an emergency situation, made WFH work, so they could keep money in their bank a roof over their head. However I think a lot did it with the expectation it was not long term (weeks we thought, then months, they quarters, 14.5 months later for some...). Just because we have been equally productive doesn't mean we should not be allowed choose to return to the working conditions pre Covid, at some stage, unless they actual endanger health and safety.

Swaine · 24-05-2021 11:33pm

The DayDream wrote: »

They're taking advantage of you by making it so you can basically live your entire life in pajamas if you choose?

You could always find a job in retail, restaurants, hotels etc if you like being away from home so much. And of course there is always the mines, if the conditions of working from a home office are so oppressive.

:rolleyes:

Breaking news: Not everyone is the same as you.

Some folk actually enjoy and need the social interaction in the workplace. I certainly enjoy the craic at work with my colleagues. It's good for head. Also, the commute can be enjoyable for the most part too.

24-05-2021 11:42pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

You could argue. Not sure who would agree with you

I can sell most things......but, nope I couldn't sell / argue tyat

atilladehun · 24-05-2021 11:44pm

24-05-2021 11:46pm

Swaine wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Breaking news: Not everyone is the same as you.

Some folk actually enjoy and need the social interaction in the workplace. I certainly enjoy the craic at work with my colleagues. It's good for head. Also, the commute can be enjoyable for the most part too.

I get my social interaction outside of work with friends and family and just do my work when I'm working

Not commuting gives me extra time for socializing. Its great

Granted WFH does nto suit everyone for various reasons (tiny home, no space, kids interrupting etc) but for the most part, WFH is bloody awesome.

As we come out of covid, employers have coped on to the fact that WFH is a viable option that works for both parties in most cases.

There will be staff who hate working in the office if forced, they'll leave and get another job

Same with the few who WFH doesn't suit, they'll find something where they can be in the office 100%.

People switch jobs every day of the week for less

I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't

24-05-2021 11:52pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

From what I've been told, the hot desk system is like a library. Not guaranteed the same desk, so I'll have to bring everything in and out of work each day.

Yup, thats hot desking

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I have equipment that's not very portable too, so I'll need a trolley. About a quarter of the staff are in the same boat as me.

They need to come up with a solution for that, either permenant desks, or that equipment gets assigned to hot desks that only certain people can book, or lockers etc etc. Its not an unfixable problem

Padre_Pio wrote: »

There was talk that the quarter would have permanent desk space (which also comes with storage and shelves) but that leaves 75% of employees vying for 25% of the space.

So take one of those permanent desks then?

Believe me when I tell you that most of that 25% of space will be empty a lot of the time

Mrs OBumble · 24-05-2021 11:52pm

limnam wrote: »

How many houses have either knocked on before the pandemic looking for ergonomic reports of home workers?

I worked for one MNC where a home-inspection was part of the process for getting approval for WFH.

25-05-2021 12:01am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup, thats hot desking

They need to come up with a solution for that, either permenant desks, or that equipment gets assigned to hot desks that only certain people can book, or lockers etc etc. Its not an unfixable problem

So take one of those permanent desks then?

Believe me when I tell you that most of that 25% of space will be empty a lot of the time

You got it in a nutshell.......these are small molehills on the plains of life, all very surmountable. I think the OP is 'seeking' negatives in the new world.... the title of the thread is " FORCED TO WFH", as another poster implied nobody is ' forcing' anyone to do anything, it isn't North Korea.

25-05-2021 12:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You got it in a nutshell.......these are small molehills on the plains of life, all very surmountable. I think the OP is 'seeking' negatives in the new world.... the title of the thread is " FORCED TO WFH", as another poster implied nobody is ' forcing' anyone to do anything, it isn't North Korea.

I remember a few years ago when the company I worked for in London first switched to hotdesking for all. There was a lot of this same kind of chat. But after just a few days, not even weeks, it settled down and everyone found their rhythm. Some desks moved around between ‘zones’ (a zone might have been around 30 desks)....some teams took a few more, some a few less, depending on level of utilisation which in turn depended on how many people in each team worked from home a couple of days

And then it very fast became 2nd nature. Booked your desks on an app each week for the week ahead. Was very easy.

Laptops with docking stations and a couple of screens, that you could supplement with your own wireless mouse and Bluetooth keyboard if you wanted.

And, of course, over time as people got used to it, there started to be more and more empty desks as people become more accustomed to the flexibility

But it started with much the same sentiment as the OP here

Mrs OBumble · 25-05-2021 12:15am

OP, try not to listen to the WFH fans as they try to convince you that you're being unreasonable: you aren't, and you know it.

Right now, you have a contract which says your place of work is "the office address". Your employer is asking you to change this. As a first step, you need to ask them for a copy of the proposed new contract.

Then you need more details of how the proposed setup will work. Will you be given dual equipment, one set to have at your office and one for your off-site location? Will there be storage in the office, if you aren't able to leave it in a desk? Will you be able to block-book a hot-desk? Will there be ergonomic and security inspections of your off-site location - exactly what facilities will you be required to provide? (Eg I know one mid-west company which insist on a non-SIM based modem for wi-fi).

Then weigh up the options, and look hard for alternatives: Does your neighbourhood have an office hubs, or even just empty offices which you could rent? (This could get expensive, but do explore it. Maybe you could even share space with 2-3 colleagues who feel similarly). You could even look for a room in a house-share: perhaps an owner-occupier who doesn't WFH would be willing to rent their home-office to you during the day.

If you cannot find an alternative which works, you need to explore the legal route. If you're in a union, contact them. If not, you may need to hire a solicitor. In short, the company's request to alter your contract needs to be something you can agree to (it may need some sweeteners from the) - or they need to make you redundant.]

Or - you just look for another job. But if you're permanent now, remember that you'll be doing through the whole probation thing again. This could be painful.

Good luck.

Mongfinder General · 25-05-2021 12:34am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, try not to listen to the WFH fans as they try to convince you that you're being unreasonable: you aren't, and you know it.

Right not, you have a contract which says your place of work is "the office address". Your employer is asking you to change this. As a first step, you need to ask them for a copy of the proposed new contract.

Then you need more details of how the proposed setup will work. Will you be given dual equipment, one set to have at your office and one for your off-site location? Will there be storage in the office, if you aren't able to leave it in a desk? Will you be able to block-book a hot-desk? Will there be ergonomic and security inspections of your off-site location - exactly what facilities will you be required to provide? (Eg I know one mid-west company which insist on a non-SIM based modem for wi-fi).

Then weigh up the options, and look hard for alternatives: Does your neighbourhood have an office hubs, or even just empty offices which you could rent? (This could get expensive, but do explore it. Maybe you could even share space with 2-3 colleagues who feel similarly). You could even look for a room in a house-share: perhaps an owner-occupier who doesn't WFH would be willing to rent their home-office to you during the day.

If you cannot find an alternative which works, you need to explore the legal route. If you're in a union, contact them. If not, you may need to hire a solicitor. In short, the company's request to alter your contract needs to be something you can agree to (it may need some sweeteners from the) - or they need to make you redundant.]

Or - you just look for another job. But if you're permanent now, remember that you'll be doing through the whole probation thing again. This could be painful.

Good luck.

Don't forget the added bonus from working from home. Now that you've proven that you can work from home instead of highlighting the **** show you're faced with and not demanding a return to the office at the earliest available opportunity, your bosses know that you'll put up with it. And sure if you can work from home you can work from anywhere. So the graduates in Eastern Europe can join the company. What's that I hear the boss say? Why are we still paying and hiring staff based in Ireland? Now, do we see where this is headed?

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2021 12:43am

Change is good when you look at any situation you can see a glass half full or half empty. If you are renting and the place you are in is unsuitable look for a place that suits better. Maybe this is the chance to move a distance and buy a cheap one or two bed apartment or house.

I worked for a company twenty year's ago that put us working from home more or less. We were a mobile workforce we went to work straight from home. You had your tasks it was up to you to get them done. There was about 3-4 hours administration to be done toward the end of the week. You were supposed to go into the office, I installed an ISDN line at home(days of dial up internet access) mobile service was brutal at the house still is.

Anyway after a while I started to make sure I only had admin work on Friday so it was a half day, then I started doing a bit Thursday night, then I do bits of it when I get the chance during the week or catch up over the weekend if need be. I spend 5-6 years and I hardly ever worked a Friday. Ya you take a few phone calls on the mobile but Friday was great if you sorted everything else during the week. It was all about organisation.

If 75% of staff get the option to work from home a desk for 1 in 3 should be adequate. As one poster said get the hotdesks set up right, Most of the stuff is there anyway. Book your HD in advance work from home 1-2 days a week. Maybe work late in the office so when at home you have more free time. It may not be easy but look at the solution not the problem.

shadyslimshady · 25-05-2021 12:46am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, try not to listen to the WFH fans as they try to convince you that you're being unreasonable: you aren't, and you know it.

Right not, you have a contract which says your place of work is "the office address". Your employer is asking you to change this. As a first step, you need to ask them for a copy of the proposed new contract.

Then you need more details of how the proposed setup will work. Will you be given dual equipment, one set to have at your office and one for your off-site location? Will there be storage in the office, if you aren't able to leave it in a desk? Will you be able to block-book a hot-desk? Will there be ergonomic and security inspections of your off-site location - exactly what facilities will you be required to provide? (Eg I know one mid-west company which insist on a non-SIM based modem for wi-fi).

Then weigh up the options, and look hard for alternatives: Does your neighbourhood have an office hubs, or even just empty offices which you could rent? (This could get expensive, but do explore it. Maybe you could even share space with 2-3 colleagues who feel similarly). You could even look for a room in a house-share: perhaps an owner-occupier who doesn't WFH would be willing to rent their home-office to you during the day.

If you cannot find an alternative which works, you need to explore the legal route. If you're in a union, contact them. If not, you may need to hire a solicitor. In short, the company's request to alter your contract needs to be something you can agree to (it may need some sweeteners from the) - or they need to make you redundant.]

Or - you just look for another job. But if you're permanent now, remember that you'll be doing through the whole probation thing again. This could be painful.

Good luck.

Always a Karen in every office.

Strumms · 25-05-2021 12:52am

You simply say that you don’t have any suitable space or environment with which to set up an office, you don’t want to compromise your home life by having a mixed work / home environment. You want separation...

JCX BXC · 25-05-2021 1:03am

Indeed, I can't fathom how WFH has such a big following, if the pandemic has thought me anything it's that staying inside the same room for most of your time will drive you bonkers.

This is just personal, but I cannot see how I'd offer the same quality of work while at home, between distractions with others in the house, me wanting to skive off, watch TV, browse boards or meet friends, as well as having no set routine. I personally would despise being unable to differentiate between work and home life, I like to switch off, fairly hard to do when the laptop you've been working on all day is staring at you in the face. Maybe for those who have their own luxurious home office it's easier, most of us don't have that luxury.

I think a massive incoming issue is the right to switch off, I know the government have implemented some (likely useless) legislation on this matter, but I feel it will have little effect. When you're at home, why wouldn't your boss expect you to do a certain urgent task when your laptop is beside you. This turns into several seemingly urgent tasks, meaning you do X amount of hours now, that you wouldn't have done in an office.

I'd personally hate it, and if I was forced to do that in my job I would leave it.

Qrt · 25-05-2021 1:14am

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

25-05-2021 1:26am

Qrt wrote: »

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

If you don't have a dedicated space, WFH sucks, if you do, its great

VG31 · 25-05-2021 1:37am

Qrt wrote: »

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

I did only did my final year of college at home so that was tolerable but it would be awful as a first year not knowing anyone.

I think there's a significant difference in opinions between age groups. Most people who want 100% WFH seem to be 40+ and married. I'm in my 20s and the majority of people I know prefer the office.

I would personally favour a 3-2 or 4-1 office/home split. Although if the choice was fully office or fully WFH I'd go with the office. I'm relatively introverted but I still like having work colleagues to talk to. Spending 16+ hours a day in my bedroom is not my idea of fun.

Even as someone who hates getting up early, I don't really mind the commute that much.

VG31 · 25-05-2021 1:40am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you don't have a dedicated space, WFH sucks, if you do, its great

That's a bit simplistic. While it's much better to have a dedicated home office it doesn't have anything to do with why some people prefer going into the office.

25-05-2021 1:55am

VG31 wrote: »

That's a bit simplistic. While it's much better to have a dedicated home office it doesn't have anything to do with why some people prefer going into the office.

Its simplistic because its simple

Funny that

witnessmenow · 25-05-2021 2:06am

I have a spare room that I use as an office and I absolutely prefer not having to commute to Dublin but working from home is even still not without it's challenges. We've got two young kids and as soon as they hear my door opening they are ready to pounce! It's a lovely complaint but it's very difficult to take any sort of a break. It was nice to grab tea with buddies at work or go out somewhere for lunch.

I completely understand people wanting to get back into the office. Although I do think comapnies that move to an on demand system will probably be ok space wise as for every one person who wants to be in the office there is probably another who doesn't

Forced to work from home

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