Forced to work from home

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

Why wouldn't you? Minus the hate part. Unless your boss is an asshole, they should try to help you with this. They hired you, they should want to retain you.

Because there is nothing my boss could do about it. If a lack of face to face or social interaction is a problem the only solution is to bring my team into the office or do after hours things. Do i really want to be the guy that forces my team into an office one day a week during a pandemic or force everyone to stay for online drinks on a friday evening?

newuser99999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why wouldn't you? Minus the hate part. Unless your boss is an asshole, they should try to help you with this. They hired you, they should want to retain you.

My company hires hundreds of graduates a year. I’m not going to be the person who complains to my boss over a situation he has no control over.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

Because there is nothing my boss could do about it. If a lack of face to face or social interaction is a problem the only solution is to bring my team into the office or do after hours things. Do i really want to be the guy that forces my team into an office one day a week during a pandemic or force everyone to stay for online drinks on a friday evening?

Is lack of social interaction the sole problem here? There's nothing else? It doesn't sound like it.

newuser99999

newuser99999 wrote: »

My company hires hundreds of graduates a year. I’m not going to be the person who complains to my boss over a situation he has no control over.

So does mine. I know you think I'm an evil boss, but if a graduate came to me voicing concerns I would listen and do what I can to make that person's life easier, even if I couldn't solve everything.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

Is lack of social interaction the sole problem here? There's nothing else? It doesn't sound like it.

I'm not a graduate. I don't have a problem. But you asked why a graduate wouldn't tell their boss they are unhappy.

That's quite the leap in bold there after you complaining about people putting words in your mouth.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

I'm not a graduate. I don't have a problem. But you asked why a graduate wouldn't tell their boss they are unhappy.

That's quite the leap in bold there after you complaining about people putting words in your mouth.

I'm asking a question, not making a statement. Try to keep up or don't respond to my posts.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm asking a question, not making a statement. Try to keep up or don't respond to my posts.

It doesn't sound like it.

That's a statement.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

It doesn't sound like it.

That's a statement.

It was preceded by a question. You've one more go at this.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

It was preceded by a question. You've one more go at this.

You finished with a statement. You asked a question and answered it yourself. You can pretend you were just asking questions all you want.

Do i think you are being genuine in this? No i do not.

Calahonda52

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

WFH suits us as we both have flexibility to work from teh office on alternate dates so we dont have to pay childcare and we really love the saving on commute times. That said we had to invest heavily in creating two office spaces in our home which neither company contributed in any way towards.

My work is all hotdesks now but since Im engineering an we need loads of test kit, we kept desks on one of teh smaller offices so thats good.

I see people on calls who are working from their bedroom. they work and sleep in the same place. Thats a horror. Huge investment in 'WeWork"/dogpatch type deskspace for hire scattered throughout the country and comnaies to subsidise using them would alleviate that a fair bit.

one thing for sure, LAW (Living at work) will be the absolute norm if people dont start making more clear demands from their companies on what they have to contribute.

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

This will be the next big shift, to off shore once the SW supports finish and 1,000's will be left go.

Christy42

newuser99999 wrote: »

My company hires hundreds of graduates a year. I’m not going to be the person who complains to my boss over a situation he has no control over.

It doesn't have to be a full on moan. Just a I am looking forward to being back in the office. Mentioning some pros with the cons. However if someone says they don't want the office to be open till next year it is one hell of a reach to then say they hate WFH.

There is a massive difference to college from and work from home. College was mostly about the social side with some work thrown in. Work is mostly about the work with a little social interaction thrown in.

Calahonda52

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

This will be the next big shift, to off shore once the SW supports finish and 1,000's will be left go.

Good. Plenty of dead wood in companies. The extinction of the dinosaurs.

Christy42

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

This will be the next big shift, to off shore once the SW supports finish and 1,000's will be left go.

Given most are going to a hybrid approach it seems rough to make that work from India. There are reasons places built offices here in the first place most of which will still apply in any case whether for regulatory reasons or skill sets or whatever.

Jim2007

Swaine wrote: »

Some folk actually enjoy and need the social interaction in the workplace. I certainly enjoy the craic at work with my colleagues. It's good for head. Also, the commute can be enjoyable for the most part too.

Well you’ll just have to learn to adapt and build a social life outside the office, which is probably better for your mental health in any case as loosing your social life as well as your job at the time is not good and the same for retirement.

The last two places I worked in before retirement had hot desks and in theory you needed to book them. In reality you never needed to do so because the office was always less than half full. You could even use the same office every day if you wished to.

Once you remove the obligation to attend the office, people will make different lifestyle choices. Some want to live close to where they grew up, be near aged parents, better access to schools or colleges, easier access to the countryside for hobbies etc. Your work routine may not change, but your office experience will be different, many of the people you meet will be occasional visitors you only see a couple of times a year and so on.

floorpie

Many people are saying something along the lines of "balance is the key, blended approaches will be the norm, 2 days a week in office is best".

This is the LEAST sensible approach.

Either companies should fully commit to WFH and let people move anywhere they want (including abroad) or they should assure you of office space every day without impediments (e.g. hoping that desks are free to book). It is senseless to chain people to high rent in cities, requiring them to keep their commute short, so that they can be arbitrarily called in for meetings maybe a day or two a week. I can see only one side that benefits from such a balance, and it's not the employee.

Cyrus

floorpie wrote: »

Either companies should fully commit to WFH and let people move anywhere they want (including abroad)

that opens up all sorts of taxation issues around permanent establishment for the company.

also even if it were possible, how long do you think a company will pay you an irish wage to live in a much lower cost jurisdiction, that arbitrage wont exist for very long.

newuser99999

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well you’ll just have to learn to adapt and build a social life outside the office, which is probably better for your mental health in any case as loosing your social life as well as your job at the time is not good and the same for retirement.

Why is it that as soon as someone mentions the social life in work it’s assumed that they have none outside of it? You can have both.

Jim2007

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

But finding that someone is becoming problematic. Even in say India the demand for competent software engineers outstrips the supply.

Jim2007

newuser99999 wrote: »

Why is it that as soon as someone mentions the social life in work it’s assumed that they have none outside of it? You can have both.

Of course you can, but the majority indicating the need human interaction at work don’t.

floorpie

Cyrus wrote: »

that opens up all sorts of taxation issues around permanent establishment for the company.

also even if it were possible, how long do you think a company will pay you an irish wage to live in a much lower cost jurisdiction, that arbitrage wont exist for very long.

Not my problem. I can't afford to subsidise my company's expenditure on office space, so either let me WFH from anywhere I please or give me an office to work from (I know this wont happen however).

sekond

Cyrus wrote: »

so is the person who is WFH also minding kids

No - or at least not out of the Covid/emergency type. But with a slightly older child who can get a bus/walk home from school, get themselves a snack etc and generally occupy themselves until work is finished, it's a godsend. With one of mine, all I usually have to do is open the door for her, and when I'm making myself a cup of tea check that she has started her homework. (Her younger sister is still in childcare because she would need a bit more attention and couldn't get herself home by herself just yet).

For some people it will save having to pay for breakfast clubs because instead of heading for a 7am train and dropping a child off to a creche on the way, they can drop the child to school, and still be sitting at their desk at home just after 9am.

RugbyLover123

newuser99999 wrote: »

I can guarantee no graduate is enjoying WFH.

Really?

I’m just slightly older then a graduate and I can assure you none of my friends are dying to get back into the office 5 days a week. WFH allows you to save more and have more free time, which means there is more money and time to spend socialising with your actual friends. I know I’d much rather have €40 extra in my pocket at the weekend for food & drink instead of it going on Petrol for the weekly commute.

I understand WFH isn’t for everyone, especially if you’ve kids, but being able to shut your laptop at 5pm and being able to go straight out for a walk, as opposed to spending 1+ hours driving home has done wonders for my mental health.

Jim2007

Cyrus wrote: »

that opens up all sorts of taxation issues around permanent establishment for the company.

also even if it were possible, how long do you think a company will pay you an irish wage to live in a much lower cost jurisdiction, that arbitrage wont exist for very long.

They can and do already move work to low cost locations!

And here in Switzerland our cost base is much higher than Ireland, even higher than the neighboring countries, but it has not made much of an impact on the jobs market. Between international competition, increased productivity levels and declining work forces its not that easy to up sticks and find a large workforce somewhere else. Of course some will move, but most will not because it is just not that easy.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

As I've already stated, we have recruited graduates and integrated them successfully. This really isn't difficult.

Yeah, I think at under a year its a bit early to be popping the champagne to be honest.

Mrs OBumble

kathleen37 wrote: »

And every day an everyday sexism day....

Ya.

I regard the phrase as either misogyny BS.

Or as a compliment, meaning a stroppy woman who doesn't take nonsense from a$$holes.


Kinda funny to be called it for giving someone factual advice about their employer making a unilateral change to terms and conditions of employment.

KaneToad

Cyrus wrote: »

depends on how much you want to get paid in the future.

when we were trainees in a large accountancy practice being paid relative peanuts taking the i am only working the hours i am being paid for would have been detrimental to future career prospects.

depends on what sector you are in.

Depends on how much you value your time & abilities.

floorpie

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well you’ll just have to learn to adapt and build a social life outside the office, which is probably better for your mental health in any case as loosing your social life as well as your job at the time is not good and the same for retirement.

I can see no way in which WFH is in any way conducive to a better social life overall, please explain how.

Obvious reasons that it's not conducive: you and your peers/friends/family aren't in a common place every day (e.g. Dublin city centre); your only human contact for 40-50 hours a week is through Zoom; you aren't allowed leave your house for 40-50 hours a week etc. These are obvious antisocial attributes of WFH.

I imagine "building a social life outside the office" is perhaps insurmountably difficult if you WFH any distance from an urban centre.

newuser99999

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Really?

I’m just slightly older then a graduate and I can assure you none of my friends are dying to get back into the office 5 days a week.

So you’re not a graduate and were in the office before this? Kind of missing the point.

musiknonstop

Same thing here, COVID has been a gift for the company I work for. They were already downsizing before COVID hit, but the understanding was that they would find an alternative office for us.

Now it looks like that's off the table and WFH will be permanent. The only contribution they have made is a laptop.

swarlb

Just curious about this. Being semi retired it doesn't really affect me, and having never worked in an 'office' environment, I'm just curious as to what kinds of jobs are these. Are they primarily IT.. or telephone call based.
Would it be a thing in the future that at the interview stage of one of these jobs the criteria for working at home would be laid out.
How exactly would it work, insofar as you'd need to be monitored by a 'boss' as to if you were actually working the allocated hours, breaks etc.
And excuse me for being ignorant... but what is a 'hot desk' ?

I ask mainly out of curiosity, but as my children have not yet entered the workplace... is this something they should consider for the future.