Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

deeperlearning · 19-05-2021 10:03PM

JTMan wrote: »

Updated England vaccine roadmap aims to give first doses to everyone aged 16/18+ by the end of June.

https://twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1395110176886247426

The tweet stated that vaccines could be offered to to all adults in the UK by the end of June.

Varadkar basically said the same -

Leo Varadkar has suggested that anyone in Ireland over the age of 18 who wants a Covid-19 vaccine may be offered one by the end of June.
https://www.thejournal.ie/vaccine-roll-out-5435593-May2021/

All it means is that everyone over 18 will be able to register for their vaccine appointments by June 30.

Bit cynical · 19-05-2021 10:18PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

The tweet stated that vaccines could be offered to to all adults in the UK by the end of June.

Varadkar basically said the same -

Leo Varadkar has suggested that anyone in Ireland over the age of 18 who wants a Covid-19 vaccine may be offered one by the end of June.
https://www.thejournal.ie/vaccine-roll-out-5435593-May2021/

All it means is that everyone over 18 will be able to register for their vaccine appointments by June 30.

I suspect there's more substance though to the UK version as they've about twice as many total vaccines administered as we have per capita. What matters, of course, is the amount actually done by a particular date, not merely the amount offered.

hmmm · 19-05-2021 10:23PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Third dose may be trialled in UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57174733

A small trial of a third shot of the Astra Zeneca had excellent results.

https://www.ft.com/content/c5297d58-ad6d-490f-89e0-74f9c13377e4

Per the article no major reaction to the vector. High antibody count. Deals with all known variants.

lastusername · 19-05-2021 10:30PM

hmmm wrote: »

A small trial of a third shot of the Astra Zeneca had excellent results.

https://www.ft.com/content/c5297d58-ad6d-490f-89e0-74f9c13377e4

Per the article no major reaction to the vector. High antibody count. Deals with all known variants.

Until there are new variants in a year or two or three? How many shots will they be recommending over that time frame then? They say in the BBC article above that they don’t even know how long protection lasts! All feels a bit experimental.

astrofool · 19-05-2021 10:41PM

lastusername wrote: »

Until there are new variants in a year or two or three? How many shots will they be recommending over that time frame then? They say in the BBC article above that they don’t even know how long protection lasts! All feels a bit experimental.

a) these shots are to boost antibodies in those vaccinated
b) the vaccines are already safe, this trial is to observe antibody count after a booster vs. no booster
c) they are using the same vaccines that are already effective against variants as they are now, in future they'll likely include multiple variants in the same shot (similar to flu) depending on what the prevalent strain is, but it may not be needed at all

OwlsZat · 19-05-2021 10:42PM

We will be dosing covid vaccines for sometime to come!

Tyrone212 · 19-05-2021 11:07PM

Was talking to my father. He said someone on primetime said lots of people who had AstraZeneca both doses died in India with their variant. My father has had AstraZeneca so obviously was a bit put out by that comment. I don't know who it was, I'm going to guess that guy Kingstone? He's made dubious claims before. Anyway, is there any truth to that comment?

Edit- Tonight show on virgin not prime time. Sorry RTE

Happydays2020 · 19-05-2021 11:09PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Was talking to my father. He said someone on primetime said lots of people who had AstraZeneca both doses died in India with their variant. My father has had AstraZeneca so obviously was a bit put out by that comment. I don't know who it was, I'm going to guess that guy Kingstone? He's made dubious claims before. Anyway, is there any truth to that comment?

Report RTÉ to the broadcasting commission.

19-05-2021 11:25PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Was talking to my father. He said someone on primetime said lots of people who had AstraZeneca both doses died in India with their variant. My father has had AstraZeneca so obviously was a bit put out by that comment. I don't know who it was, I'm going to guess that guy Kingstone? He's made dubious claims before. Anyway, is there any truth to that comment?

Some earlier concern pre variant in february that I found
Seems to be an Indian manufacture problem
If it is,some of that was due to be exported to the UK

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/india-deaths-post-vaccine-raise-alarm-at-rights-groups/2137716

Professor Moriarty · 19-05-2021 11:29PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Was talking to my father. He said someone on primetime said lots of people who had AstraZeneca both doses died in India with their variant. My father has had AstraZeneca so obviously was a bit put out by that comment. I don't know who it was, I'm going to guess that guy Kingstone? He's made dubious claims before. Anyway, is there any truth to that comment?

The AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine is 97 per cent effective against the Indian variant.

Charles Babbage · 19-05-2021 11:32PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Was talking to my father. He said someone on primetime said lots of people who had AstraZeneca both doses died in India with their variant. My father has had AstraZeneca so obviously was a bit put out by that comment. I don't know who it was, I'm going to guess that guy Kingstone? He's made dubious claims before. Anyway, is there any truth to that comment?

The question is when did they get it? Any vaccine is not much use for a fortnight after you get it.

stephenjmcd · 19-05-2021 11:39PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Was talking to my father. He said someone on primetime said lots of people who had AstraZeneca both doses died in India with their variant. My father has had AstraZeneca so obviously was a bit put out by that comment. I don't know who it was, I'm going to guess that guy Kingstone? He's made dubious claims before. Anyway, is there any truth to that comment?

Just saw it on virgin media +1 on the tonight show. Disgraceful segment really.

Some utter amount of nonsense spoken about vaccines. Trying to hold up the seychelles as a worry about vaccines, failure to mention the multiple caveats mentioned on this thread and in other places regarding Seychelles.

Not sure what Kingston Mills has against AZ in particular because he's taken a hatchet to it with many inaccurate statements and basing opinion on very old data

penelope2012 · 19-05-2021 11:44PM

It was on Tonight with Matt Cooper. Kingston Mills said doctors who had AZ died from the Indian varient. Was kind of relieved I had got the call today telling me to come up for my first vaccine Friday 28TH I asked and was told I am getting Phizer.

Marine Layer wrote: »

Some earlier concern pre variant in february that I found
Seems to be an Indian manufacture problem
If it is,some of that was due to be exported to the UK

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/india-deaths-post-vaccine-raise-alarm-at-rights-groups/2137716

19-05-2021 11:45PM

A 49 year old just posted on the appointments thread that they registered this morning and received a text this evening. Appointment is for J&J.

Seems that if you want to exercise your choice for an mRNA, you have to turn up to the appointment and tell them. Surely there's a better way to manage this than wasting slots?

Degag · 19-05-2021 11:55PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

A 49 year old just posted on the appointments thread that they registered this morning and received a text this evening. Appointment is for J&J.

Seems that if you want to exercise your choice for an mRNA, you have to turn up to the appointment and tell them. Surely there's a better way to manage this than wasting slots?

Or you could just take what you're being given.

20-05-2021 12:01AM

Degag wrote: »

Or you could just take what you're being given.

The choice is being allowed by NIAC for people in their 40s, based on the data available.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with people making that choice for themselves.

Degag · 20-05-2021 12:04AM

Flying Fox wrote: »

The choice is being allowed by NIAC for people in their 40s, based on the data available.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with people making that choice for themselves.

There's not. But if that's the process in place accept it and move on.

A few weeks ago there was no choice if i remember correctly. As it should be. And if someone doesn't like it they go to the back of the queue.

Strazdas · 20-05-2021 12:06AM

penelope2012 wrote: »

It was on Tonight with Matt Cooper. Kingston Mills said doctors who had AZ died from the Indian varient. Was kind of relieved I had got the call today telling me to come up for my first vaccine Friday 28TH I asked and was told I am getting Phizer.

It seems Mills is talking nonsense. The Sunday Times reported at the weekend that both AZ and Pfizer are at around the same level in protecting against the Indian variant :

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaccines-are-nearly-as-effective-against-the-indian-variant-2rdqx5bdr

dominatinMC · 20-05-2021 12:20AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Just saw it on virgin media +1 on the tonight show. Disgraceful segment really.

Some utter amount of nonsense spoken about vaccines. Trying to hold up the seychelles as a worry about vaccines, failure to mention the multiple caveats mentioned on this thread and in other places regarding Seychelles.

Not sure what Kingston Mills has against AZ in particular because he's taken a hatchet to it with many inaccurate statements and basing opinion on very old data

Using the Seychelles as an example of a vaccination programme is a bit like referring to Anglo Irish Bank as an exemplar of economic prudence. Why would you focus on the worst? But then again, we have been accustomed to the media's portrayal of events throughout the last 15 months. Reminds me of the study which concluded that AZ was more-or-less ineffective against the SA variant (remember that) which was quickly dismissed by everyone other than "journalists" and their celebrity "scientific compatriots".
Have to say, I'm a bit surprised by Kingston Mills though. I didn't hear his comments tonight, but he's usually one of the more balanced contributors

20-05-2021 12:25AM

Degag wrote: »

There's not. But if that's the process in place accept it and move on.

A few weeks ago there was no choice if i remember correctly. As it should be. And if someone doesn't like it they go to the back of the queue.

??

The point I'm making is that having people turn up to an appointment to make that choice is counterproductive. It wastes a slot that could be used by someone else. There should be a process in place that allows people notify their choice without wasting a slot.

JPup · 20-05-2021 12:26AM

Flying Fox wrote: »

A 49 year old just posted on the appointments thread that they registered this morning and received a text this evening. Appointment is for J&J.

Seems that if you want to exercise your choice for an mRNA, you have to turn up to the appointment and tell them. Surely there's a better way to manage this than wasting slots?

Why would you show up in person to refuse the vaccine? Can’t you reply by text to schedule another appointment.

Also someone in the other thread pointed out that if you are born in 1971 you are considered 50 on the HSE system (open to correction there) so it may not be the case that 40 somethings are being offered Janssen just yet.

dominatinMC · 20-05-2021 12:30AM

penelope2012 wrote: »

It was on Tonight with Matt Cooper. Kingston Mills said doctors who had AZ died from the Indian varient. Was kind of relieved I had got the call today telling me to come up for my first vaccine Friday 28TH I asked and was told I am getting Phizer.

Unfortunately, although the vaccines (including AZ) have been shown to be extremely effective, they are not 100%. So there is a very small chance that vaccinated people will still die. That is something we have to accept. However, we don't know the exact circumstances pertaining to these doctors - did they have underlying issues, was the second dose given sufficient time to prime the immune system, etc.? Very easy to pick a few isolated cases to try and undermine the vaccines. How about all the millions of people who have had the vaccine and have not died? I just don't get this constant need to downplay the vaccine by some. Not you OP.

20-05-2021 12:37AM

JPup wrote: »

Why would you show up in person to refuse the vaccine? Can’t you reply by text to schedule another appointment.

Also someone in the other thread pointed out that if you are born in 1971 you are considered 50 on the HSE system (open to correction there) so it may not be the case that 40 somethings are being offered Janssen just yet.

Rescheduling and indicating consent are two different things though. If you reschedule, you could be offered the same vaccine again. And you can't keep rescheduling repeatedly. There surely must be some mechanism for people to exercise the choice that's being offered to them.

Don't know about the HSE system thing, but from NIAC's pov I'm not sure 49 should equal 50. Anyway we'll see what kind of texts go out in the next few days.

Degag · 20-05-2021 12:43AM

Flying Fox wrote: »

??

The point I'm making is that having people turn up to an appointment to make that choice is counterproductive. It wastes a slot that could be used by someone else. There should be a process in place that allows people notify their choice without wasting a slot.

Yes there should be but there’s not.

They shouldn’t be offering choice of vaccine IMO.

But they are and thats the process they have. Not ideal but it’s a fast moving business.

I would hope the vast majority of people take what they’re given when they turn up otherwise they just add to the inefficiency.

Take what your given = no problem.

20-05-2021 03:07AM

Can't trust China. Saw Fauci on the *box last night saying that they didn't have/need any active virus to work off when they were making the vaccine... They got the prototype (not his words, but I can't remember what he said exactly) in the form of a structural formula graph (again, not his exact words, but it's the best way I can describe it - basically a picture

) via computer from the Chinese...:cool: Not very "scientific" imo..... Another reason not to trust those vaccines.

*Was on BBC4 iirc in the small hours...

iguana · 20-05-2021 07:05AM

Flying Fox wrote: »

Rescheduling and indicating consent are two different things though. If you reschedule, you could be offered the same vaccine again. And you can't keep rescheduling repeatedly. There surely must be some mechanism for people to exercise the choice that's being offered to them.

Don't know about the HSE system thing, but from NIAC's pov I'm not sure 49 should equal 50. Anyway we'll see what kind of texts go out in the next few days.

It is possible to call the HSELive vaccine helpline. So if you do get an appointment for a vaccine you can't/don't want to take, then the best thing to do is probably to phone them and discuss it.

Vaccinated30 · 20-05-2021 07:13AM

Degag wrote: »

Yes there should be but there’s not.

They shouldn’t be offering choice of vaccine IMO.

But they are and thats the process they have. Not ideal but it’s a fast moving business.

I would hope the vast majority of people take what they’re given when they turn up otherwise they just add to the inefficiency.

Take what your given = no problem.

Absolutely ridiculous point.
This is like saying someone who is entitled to claim a social welfare payment shouldn't claim what they're entitled to and be happy with what they get.

The choice is being offered to certain cohorts due to the fact that AZ and JJ do cause a life threatening blood clot. And yes I am aware its a small chance but there will be people who will refuse the vaccine and then there won't be herd immunity amongst the country. Yes all vaccines work and I have 2 doses so I Couldn't give a flying **** what the government do with the rest of the country, but the point still stands. Saying take what your given or tough ****e is not how to get out of this pandemic and the people in charge are aware of it.
Talk risk vs benefit of the blood clot v vaccine but ignore the risk v benefit of giving the choice of vaccine.

Lumen · 20-05-2021 07:20AM

The risk of a blood clot isn't "small", it's so miniscule as to be barely statistically significant.

Our brains can't really process the concept of a one in hundreds of thousands risk, so we just focus on the one.

Anyone who is happy to fly or drive but scared of a vaccine is an idiot. I realise I should be using warmer, more inclusive language but that's the truth.

pc7 · 20-05-2021 07:23AM

On news talk saying 89 didn’t turn up one day this week in drogheda. That makes me think people aren’t getting the texts. Why would you register and not respond/turn up.

Cloudio9 · 20-05-2021 07:34AM

pc7 wrote: »

On news talk saying 89 didn’t turn up one day this week in drogheda. That makes me think people aren’t getting the texts. Why would you register and not respond/turn up.

89 out of how many though?

Also they will have built in a no-show rate to their models so not necessarily a big deal.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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