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Ultra Discussion Thread

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  • I personally think hills help but it depends on whether you mean hilly runs or mou ntains. I'm getting approx 2,000m+ ascent a week from hilly runs (over approx 100km total), it's hard to get both distance and time on the long trail runs.

    What sort of volume are you doing now and building up to? Am curious too - what you training for?

    I'm going to give the full Kerry Way Ultra a go. It's a year earlier than I would have been thinking to do it. I did the Ultranite last year and would have been planning to do a few more in the 50 mile/ 100k range this year before embarking on the big one in 2022. But in the absence of alternative races I've decided to jump in this year. I'm treating it as a trial run which takes the pressure off to some degree. Its all learning sure!

    Currently I'm up to nearly 9 hours with the last three weeks, works out just over 50 miles approx. Have been doing 6/7 hours a week since Christmas and that would generally be my mileage anyway. Doing intervals every Wednesday, pretty much lifted the workouts direct from the Hanson marathon plan as a guide. I haven't really been keeping track of elevation last year in any kind of systematic way and this year has been limited enough as the nearest hills are 20 minute drive away, and well over my 5k. I guess I mean hills - typical runs would be a 6 mile out and back route with 400m elevation, a 10 mile loop with a rolling 500m including a couple of long drags. Longer runs then might be done on some of the stiffer climbs around these parts, but not mountains either.

    I think when the long runs and the back to backs get longer, I'll trim the midweek mileage and try and do more cycling, but build the running volume towards 11/12 hours for the peak weeks in July/ August.

    What kind off effort do you run your 2000m a week at? Any hiking or is it all running? Do you do much repeats? 2000m a week is significant volume I think.




  • JohnDozer wrote: »
    I'm going to give the full Kerry Way Ultra a go. It's a year earlier than I would have been thinking to do it. I did the Ultranite last year and would have been planning to do a few more in the 50 mile/ 100k range this year before embarking on the big one in 2022. But in the absence of alternative races I've decided to jump in this year. I'm treating it as a trial run which takes the pressure off to some degree. Its all learning sure!

    Currently I'm up to nearly 9 hours with the last three weeks, works out just over 50 miles approx. Have been doing 6/7 hours a week since Christmas and that would generally be my mileage anyway. Doing intervals every Wednesday, pretty much lifted the workouts direct from the Hanson marathon plan as a guide. I haven't really been keeping track of elevation last year in any kind of systematic way and this year has been limited enough as the nearest hills are 20 minute drive away, and well over my 5k. I guess I mean hills - typical runs would be a 6 mile out and back route with 400m elevation, a 10 mile loop with a rolling 500m including a couple of long drags. Longer runs then might be done on some of the stiffer climbs around these parts, but not mountains either.

    I think when the long runs and the back to backs get longer, I'll trim the midweek mileage and try and do more cycling, but build the running volume towards 11/12 hours for the peak weeks in July/ August.

    What kind off effort do you run your 2000m a week at? Any hiking or is it all running? Do you do much repeats? 2000m a week is significant volume I think.

    Looking at my Strava it's pretty much identical to you, the elevation is from road hills and some woods nearby as opposed to mountain so they're all runnable. I too am thinking of KWU but am undecided, most likely will go for it. All in it's approx 100km a week with a total elevation of 2,000m. I tend to prioritise volume so I don't track elevation as key metric.

    I totally agree on intervals, hill repeats and so on. I think the 80/15/5 principle is great (mostly easy, less Zone 1 or 2), a tempo run and some hard stuff (intervals, hill repeats etc).

    Personally I would aim for intervals on Monday, Hill Repeats later in the week, slow volume in between and a fast-ish run Saturday but it's not always possible. I get my runs in the morning (6am ish) and I find it super hard to run hard in the mornings. It's mad, actually, how much easier running is after, say, 10 or 11am!




  • I finished KWH Ultra 2 years ago.

    There are many different approaches to train for a successful Ultra, but KWU has some peculiarities and take these into account:

    1. There is one very long hill climb - mainly on road - after Kenmare , and a few other significant climbs elsewhere where you are very likely to be walking even if you are running competitively. Do some power walking practice beforehand in preparation as you use different muscles when walking than running.

    2. There are around 7 locations where you have an opportunity to place a drop bag - most Ultras have only 1 - which gives a lot of opportunities to swap kit for something more appropriate for the conditions and have exactly the food you prefer. Plan to take advantage of this.

    3. The ground tends to be every wet as the boggy soil retains water even in dry weather. Consider waterproof socks which may require an extra size of shoes to accommodate and take advantage of the aid check points to dry and clean feet. Feet that are permanently saturated for 30 plus hours get very soft and will blister.

    4. The leg from Gortmore into Waterville is long and on much rougher ground than the rest of the course. Navigation can be challenge on this stage so try and recce this in advance and get it completed in daylight.

    5. My experience of poles is that initially they tend to slow you down but you finish less tired and stronger if you use them. I would recommend using them on the course at least for the later sections. You do need though to have practiced with them beforehand to use them effectively.

    6. For me, very long hikes getting used to operating autonomously on the hills and adding time on the feet worked well also as preparation. i.e. Hike with lightweight camping gear from Dublin to Glendalough , bivvy overnight for a few hours , and then return , with minimal running. Its not essential however.




  • mithril wrote: »
    I finished KWH Ultra 2 years ago.

    There are many different approaches to train for a successful Ultra, but KWU has some peculiarities and take these into account:

    1. There is one very long hill climb - mainly on road - after Kenmare , and a few other significant climbs elsewhere where you are very likely to be walking even if you are running competitively. Do some power walking practice beforehand in preparation as you use different muscles when walking than running.

    2. There are around 7 locations where you have an opportunity to place a drop bag - most Ultras have only 1 - which gives a lot of opportunities to swap kit for something more appropriate for the conditions and have exactly the food you prefer. Plan to take advantage of this.

    3. The ground tends to be every wet as the boggy soil retains water even in dry weather. Consider waterproof socks which may require an extra size of shoes to accommodate and take advantage of the aid check points to dry and clean feet. Feet that are permanently saturated for 30 plus hours get very soft and will blister.

    4. The leg from Gortmore into Waterville is long and on much rougher ground than the rest of the course. Navigation can be challenge on this stage so try and recce this in advance and get it completed in daylight.

    5. My experience of poles is that initially they tend to slow you down but you finish less tired and stronger if you use them. I would recommend using them on the course at least for the later sections. You do need though to have practiced with them beforehand to use them effectively.

    6. For me, very long hikes getting used to operating autonomously on the hills and adding time on the feet worked well also as preparation. i.e. Hike with lightweight camping gear from Dublin to Glendalough , bivvy overnight for a few hours , and then return , with minimal running. Its not essential however.

    Plenty of useful stuff there, will definitely give consideration to 5 and 6 this year. Wouldn't have done either of them before much, if at all. I'm not unfamiliar with a run/hike strategy in general :) I had heard the section pre Waterville was tough so its definitely the plan to visit before hand for a look see.

    What kind of run training did you do if you don't mid me asking?




  • Looking at my Strava it's pretty much identical to you, the elevation is from road hills and some woods nearby as opposed to mountain so they're all runnable. I too am thinking of KWU but am undecided, most likely will go for it. All in it's approx 100km a week with a total elevation of 2,000m. I tend to prioritise volume so I don't track elevation as key metric.

    I totally agree on intervals, hill repeats and so on. I think the 80/15/5 principle is great (mostly easy, less Zone 1 or 2), a tempo run and some hard stuff (intervals, hill repeats etc).

    Personally I would aim for intervals on Monday, Hill Repeats later in the week, slow volume in between and a fast-ish run Saturday but it's not always possible. I get my runs in the morning (6am ish) and I find it super hard to run hard in the mornings. It's mad, actually, how much easier running is after, say, 10 or 11am!

    Likewise, I was always primarily a morning runner but the last year and a bit have been more lunch and early evening. So much easier on the body. I ran early one morning this week and couldn't get over the difference.

    Anyway, any good hill rep sessions?


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  • JohnDozer wrote: »
    Likewise, I was always primarily a morning runner but the last year and a bit have been more lunch and early evening. So much easier on the body. I ran early one morning this week and couldn't get over the difference.

    Anyway, any good hill rep sessions?

    This book is amazing https://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Uphill-Athlete-Mountain-Mountaineers/dp/1938340841/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=uphill+athlete&qid=1619166148&sr=8-1, definitely worth getting.

    My hill repeats are one of two types:
    - Small hill, approx 10 to 13% gradient on which I run 90% effort for approx 2 minutes, shuffle back and repeat 5 to 10 times
    - Nearby mountain (Sliavenamon, has a lovely super steep section on which I power hike up and sprint down, benefit is on the descents more so) which would give me at least 1000m elevation

    The latter I *rarely* do enough of though




  • JohnDozer wrote: »
    Anyway, any good hill rep sessions?

    The only thing I want to add here is.... work with what you've got. Anything is better than nothing. I've heard of dutch runners using Motorway overpasses for repeats as it was the only non flat ground for miles and miles.




  • Enduro wrote: »
    The only thing I want to add here is.... work with what you've got. Anything is better than nothing. I've heard of dutch runners using Motorway overpasses for repeats as it was the only non flat ground for miles and miles.

    And I know a Dutch runner who apparently built his own hill in order to do hill repeats! :)




  • New 100mile world track best for Aleksandr Sorokin, 11h14m. And he continued on to 12hr best.

    https://www.fastrunning.com/running-athletics-news/world/new-100-mile-world-best-of-111455/32323




  • New 100mile world track best for Aleksandr Sorokin, 11h14m. And he continued on to 12hr best.

    https://www.fastrunning.com/running-athletics-news/world/new-100-mile-world-best-of-111455/32323

    Joe Fejes was saying beforehand that its always entertaining when Sorokin turns up. He's definitely not wrong about that. So he is currently the 100 mile WR holder, the 12 hour WR holder, and the 24 hour world champion. He's definitely nailing it now!


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  • Mind boggling really. In view of what we've been trying this weekend (5k TTs) he did a sub 21 min 5k and kept going at the same pace for another 11 and a half hours! :eek:




  • Enduro wrote: »
    Joe Fejes was saying beforehand that its always entertaining when Sorokin turns up. He's definitely not wrong about that. So he is currently the 100 mile WR holder, the 12 hour WR holder, and the 24 hour world champion. He's definitely nailing it now!

    I will always remember him blowing up spectacularly in Albi in 2016 but he certainly made up for that at the same venue in 2019. Awesome runner, and definitely not scared to push the limits.




  • JohnDozer wrote: »
    Plenty of useful stuff there, will definitely give consideration to 5 and 6 this year. Wouldn't have done either of them before much, if at all. I'm not unfamiliar with a run/hike strategy in general :) I had heard the section pre Waterville was tough so its definitely the plan to visit before hand for a look see.

    What kind of run training did you do if you don't mid me asking?

    Typical training would be:

    Monday Recovery (40 minutes jog or easy 25 KM cycle)
    Tuesday 7*5 minutes LT Threshold repeats on track with club.
    Wednesday 16K easy on road or IMRA race
    Thursday 16K in hills if no IMRA race otherwise 16KM easy on road
    Friday Recovery (40 minutes jog or easy 25 KM cycle)
    Saturday (Either 3 loops around Ticknock , each about 350m Elevation Gain and 10k distance on a good trail) or 5 hours easy.
    Sunday 5-6 hours easy hill run.

    In addition, every month I would do some kind of stretch activity like a trail marathon or getting the bus to Glendalough and running back home (50-60 K) along the Wicklow Way. I would take a couple days rest after the stretch activity.




  • Busy day today....

    John Kelly looks like he will regain the Pennine Way record from Damian Hall by about 3 hours or so. He's in the closing stages now. Unbelievably steady running. He has a good shot at sub 60 hours. Phenominal stuff.

    And on the local front, 4 runners are still going strong up at Last One Standing (Backyard Ultra) after 53 hours in Florida Manor, Co Down. I think that means they have all broken the local record. Indeed I think they have all broken the Irish record. From the videos, they all appear to be in good shape, all things considered. Its looking like the sun will have to set before the winner emerges. Some running from all of them. (The Atlas Running FB page is best source of information I've found). Of the 4 only Peter Cromie has run a Backyard before. Standards are going through the roof here. 55 is the best in the world so far this year, so odds are good that that can be bettered.




  • Latest stats from Last One Standing (Backyard Ultra):
    Loop 58
    241.68 miles
    All 4 started (Peter, Jivee, Amy, Keith)

    The Uk / Irish record was 49 loops (204.2)miles

    The mind is well and truly boggled!

    Jivee has broken the Philippino national 48 hours record .. 10 laps ago! :eek:
    As for Amy ... legend :eek:




  • Jivee was the final man to drop out after 62 laps, and Keith Russell finished the 63rd to become the Last Man Standing!

    That's 262.5miles. Just think about it for a second!




  • Jivee was the final man to drop out after 62 laps, and Keith Russell finished the 63rd to become the Last Man Standing!

    That's 262.5miles. Just think about it for a second!

    Just the 10 marathons then. With a little mini-break (I guess) between each one.




  • Itziger wrote: »
    Just the 10 marathons then. With a little mini-break (I guess) between each one.

    It's a mini-break each hour, as long as you managed to run the previous
    loop in less than 1 hour.




  • Best in the world for 2021 so far for Keith Russell. Mightily impressive stuff. Smashed the Irish best too.

    Amy was best female in the world so far in 2021. Also smashed the Irish best. And the European best. I think she is now 3rd best in the world ever (behind the two female winners of the mother-lode BBYU in TN)




  • Phenomenal stuff from Keith Russell. He'll get a chance to be pushed even further in the world champs no doubt. And 4 over 60! Exciting stuff.


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  • Carol Morgan, amongst others, just started out on a Wainwright's Round

    Tracking http://live.opentracking.co.uk/cmw2021/




  • Carol Morgan, amongst others, just started out on a Wainwright's Round

    Tracking http://live.opentracking.co.uk/cmw2021/

    Unfortunately she has had to quit the attempt. No doubt tons of knowledge gained for the next go. If the weather today was as bad there as here then she was very unlucky with the timing.




  • RTE news : 21 dead as severe weather hits ultramarathon in China

    http://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0523/1223367-china-marathon-deaths-weather/

    You'd take it for granted here that safety/rescue plans in place




  • spc78 wrote: »
    RTE news : 21 dead as severe weather hits ultramarathon in China

    http://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0523/1223367-china-marathon-deaths-weather/

    You'd take it for granted here that safety/rescue plans in place

    Absolutely shocking, and terribly, terribly sad. Think I heard there were 151 survivors, so around 1 in 8 died.




  • Genghis wrote: »
    Absolutely shocking, and terribly, terribly sad. Think I heard there were 151 survivors, so around 1 in 8 died.

    Aye it's absolutely brutal, apparently it was a hail and blowing a gale as they ascended up into the mountains, temperatures dropped hugely and most were equipped with only shorts and a T-Shirt, tragic needless and wasteful loss of life RIP all caught up in it!




  • Backyard world record has been broken in the Suffolk event in England (So not pancake flat course). Two still going, with another few hours until sundown. Amazing endurance.

    And just like buses, more records trundle along... The Wicklow Round Female record was lowered by over an hour over the weekend by Ivana Kolaric in 21:15:37. Super running.




  • Enduro wrote: »
    Backyard world record has been broken in the Suffolk event in England (So not pancake flat course). Two still going, with another few hours until sundown. Amazing endurance.

    One of them has just dropped out, so the other guy now has 28 minutes to finish the lap or get a dnf.

    https://www.facebook.com/211693855623584/posts/3807110649415202/?sfnsn=scwspmo


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  • Enduro has a sizeable lead at the montaine summer edition. Looks to be in good shape and hoping to break his winter pb and previous course record. He'll enjoy running the course without all the wet/snow gear for a change I'm sure.
    Live.opentracking.co.uk/spine21sum


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