2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

Timing belt · 13-05-2021 6:52pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Well, their own housing spokesperson opposed a social housing development for a start. If Sinn Fein want council land to be be built on by the council instead of private developers then why didn't they do that when they were the largest party in DCC? Also, my understanding is that the developer buys the land, builds on it, and some of the houses go to the council and affordable housing schemes. It might not be perfect but it doesn't sound like a bad idea and the alternative is that the site stays empty and nothing gets build there.

Then there are the private developments on land owned by the developer that councillors are opposing to appease the NIMBYs.

Who approves the long term leases? Is it DCC or the government?

The reason for asking is that if it is DCC then FF/FG only have 20 councilors elected to DCC so some of the other 43 councilors must be approving it. If a majority is required then another 12 councilors must have approved it.

derekgine3 · 13-05-2021 7:17pm

ElektroToad wrote: »

Past that point. Plenty in my generation are fed up being forgotten about on this area.

I'll be very very tempted taking the nuclear option and voting SF.

FG had over a decade to make it easier for young professionals like myself to afford a house or half decent apartment. I'd feel like a f***ing idiot to vote for them again unless they manage to pull a miracle within the next 3 years

Plenty in my circle in their 40's and 50's would be life long FFFG voters and have seen their "wealth" rise from their policies but will be voting for SF and other parties such as Aontu, Irish freedom, national party, etc in next election as a last resort to fix this housing crisis.

Why would do they do that? Because their kids are either living at home well into their 30's, being absolute destroyed by high rent or the ones who do get a mortgage are borrowing their life away for property that is subpar and an absolute rip off.

Browney7 · 13-05-2021 7:54pm

Timing belt wrote: »

Who approves the long term leases? Is it DCC or the government?

The reason for asking is that if it is DCC then FF/FG only have 20 councilors elected to DCC so some of the other 43 councilors must be approving it. If a majority is required then another 12 councilors must have approved it.

Presumably the head of housing delivery. Don't the councillors just approve the centrally allocated budget and have very little power?

Cal4567 · 13-05-2021 8:51pm

Unless someone can advise otherwise, I believe that is what happens but the Dept of Housing also have to sign this off. Councillors only approve the overall budget.

RichardAnd · 13-05-2021 9:11pm

derekgine3 wrote: »

Plenty in my circle in their 40's and 50's would be life long FFFG voters and have seen their "wealth" rise from their policies but will be voting for SF and other parties such as Aontu, Irish freedom, national party, etc in next election as a last resort to fix this housing crisis.

Why would do they do that? Because their kids are either living at home well into their 30's, being absolute destroyed by high rent or the ones who do get a mortgage are borrowing their life away for property that is subpar and an absolute rip off.

Better late than never, I suppose.

RichardAnd · 13-05-2021 9:29pm

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

With the covid news getting less prominent day by day (it appears there have been 0 deaths which have actually occurred in May, from my reading of the daily Journal.ie articles), there is going to be nothing to crowd out the housing crisis in the news, unless the government had the gall to try to paint the economic recovery post-covid, with increased GDP and the inevitable further rent and house price increases, as an opportunity to tax the people more in order to start to pay for the covid borrowing. It looks like housing is front and centre by itself for the foreseeable future, but I think it will probably bring down the government this year.

When the average commenter on the Journal.ie is not swallowing propaganda hook, line and sinker, something is genuinely out of sync. Encouraging sign to see...

I could certainly see a general election this year, but what would come of it? SF majority? What can he government even really do? To me, the state itself is systemically broken, and unless the next incumbent government plans to clear out the civil service, I don't see change happening in any noticeable way.

Graham · 13-05-2021 9:45pm

Mod Note

final friendly reminder - please take the politics chat to the appropriate forum.

Bass Reeves · 13-05-2021 10:02pm

Finance Ireland 30% owned by Stragetic investment fund is going to offer 20 year fixed rate Mortgages rates seem fairy compedetive. As your LTV ratio ncreases the loan rate will reduce

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0513/1221325-finance-ireland-mortgages/

It will give great stability to some borrowers. They also offer 10 and 15 year fixed rate loans

Timing belt · 13-05-2021 10:24pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Finance Ireland 30% owned by Stragetic investment fund is going to offer 20 year fixed rate Mortgages rates seem fairy compedetive. As your LTV ratio ncreases the loan rate will reduce

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0513/1221325-finance-ireland-mortgages/

It will give great stability to some borrowers. They also offer 10 and 15 year fixed rate loans

That's an interesting development and will be interesting if other funds follow and provide more competition to the banks. I assume the business model will all be about the guaranteed cash flow from the repayments and the ability to package it up and sell it on. The only drawback for the consumer would be not having the ability to repay early. I'm sure if other funds follow it will put the spot light on shadow banking and regulation to manage the systematic risk that these funds will have on the economy.

AlmightyCushion · 13-05-2021 10:34pm

Timing belt wrote: »

That's an interesting development and will be interesting if other funds follow and provide more competition to the banks. I assume the business model will all be about the guaranteed cash flow from the repayments and the ability to package it up and sell it on. The only drawback for the consumer would be not having the ability to repay early. I'm sure if other funds follow it will put the spot light on shadow banking and regulation to manage the systematic risk that these funds will have on the economy.

According to this they let you overpay 20% of the balance in any 12 month period. That's pretty good.

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/understanding-fixed-rates-breakage-costs.204427/

Amadan Dubh · 13-05-2021 10:59pm

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/ballycasheen-killarney-kerry-v93c58a/4500285

€425,000 for this McMansion named "Anfield Manor" due to the former owner's love for Liverpool FC; rapscallion that he is! MyHome describe it as a "fine house" and a "family home".

However...

https://extra.ie/2021/05/13/business/property/kerry-manor-e425k-cab-seizure

It would be great if CAB could be responsible for evictions of non-paying tenants as well in the normal rental market as it took three weeks to seize it and get it on the market!

Hubertj · 14-05-2021 7:08am

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/ballycasheen-killarney-kerry-v93c58a/4500285

€425,000 for this McMansion named "Anfield Manor" due to the former owner's love for Liverpool FC; rapscallion that he is! MyHome describe it as a "fine house" and a "family home".

However...

https://extra.ie/2021/05/13/business/property/kerry-manor-e425k-cab-seizure

It would be great if CAB could be responsible for evictions of non-paying tenants as well in the normal rental market as it took three weeks to seize it and get it on the market!

Quality job on the tarmacing and paving front and back. I would prefer a garden though.

Amadan Dubh · 14-05-2021 7:13am

Hubertj wrote: »

Quality job on the tarmacing and paving front and back. I would prefer a garden though.

I think they only do a good job on tarmacing when it applies to their own homes!

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/kerry-dad-whose-home-seized-23964851

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/palatial-kerry-home-seized-from-man-under-investigation-for-preying-on-vulnerable-1.4545093

It would be a brave person to take that place over and love their family in!

Cal4567 · 14-05-2021 7:57am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/how-do-opposition-party-policies-on-housing-stack-up-1.4564584

It's basically what SF will do once in power. It's not that critical either - it doesn't have the usual 'experts', such as lobbyists for institutional investors or estate agents to spoil the narrative. I list below an insert which details issues that may prove challenging but are not totally insurmountable, if there is the political will. The most interesting is bringing in leasehold houses which I take it would mean 99 or 150 leases, proper leases, not these made up thingies that have been thought up on the back of a fag packet by someone in Custom House.

Experts who spoke to The Irish Times said that while the policies are ambitious, there are many pitfalls and potential problems.

They can be summarised as follows:

Building from scratch can be slower, riskier and more complicated for local authorities and housing bodies for a whole variety of complicated reasons in comparison to buying from developers;

Using local authorities as developers carries huge risk;

The level of public land differs depending on the local authority;

There is often debt attached to State land although experts differ on how significant an issue this is;

Substantially higher subsidies would be needed for affordable housing developments on State lands in urban areas which could also fall foul of EU state aid rules;

High density units such as apartment blocks are much more expensive at a time when many people on social housing lists are single or lone parents;

Building costs are also considered to be still too high.

All of these complex problems present major stumbling blocks to the plans, they say.

Villa05 · 14-05-2021 8:07am

Amadan Dubh wrote:

It would be great if CAB could be responsible for evictions of non-paying tenants as well in the normal rental market as it took three weeks to seize it and get it on the market!

If we sent them after white collar crime, brown envelope brigade and corrupt politicians we would be going a long way to fixing the ills of the nation

Villa05 · 14-05-2021 8:20am

Governments own research in 2019 showed that investment funds would not deliver affordable homes and threatened monopolistic powers in areas of the market they dominated according to indo

A bit of stating the obvious, but at least we know that they know

Amadan Dubh · 14-05-2021 8:32am

Great article in The Journal this morning from Dr Lorcan Sirr who is Senior Lecturer in Planning and Development at the Technological University Dublin and not a member of any political party; and Orla Hegarty who is an architect and Assistant Professor of Architecture in UCD and not a member of any political party.

It's a long read but worthwhile. Here are some extracts which really stood out for me.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/housing-crisis-ireland-5436118-May2021/

WHEN THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION recently looked at Ireland’s affordability crisis, it warned that ‘the surge in house prices in recent years seems to have been mainly driven by increases in land prices and construction margin’. As ever, land and money. And as in the past, it is not only the physical environment that is changed by housing, the economic and electoral landscapes are affected too.

Lobbyists confirmed giving then Minister for Housing Simon Coveney and his officials their SHD recommendations who ‘took it lock, stock and barrel and stuck it into the new housing bill.’ At that time, then opposition spokesman Darragh O’Brien said: ‘It is evident that a lot of power is concentrated among a select group of developers.’

Prior to Covid, it should be noted that despite removing opportunities for meaningful public participation – a way of balancing power and influence between different parties – less than two per cent of all housing with planning permission under the SHD process had been built. This does not add weight to central premise of the SHD lobbyists that public objections were holding up development.

There were more new homes completed in Naas (176) and Drogheda (197) in the first three months of this year than there were in Dublin postcodes 1 to 8 (137).

The deregulation of apartment standards for build-to-rent and co-living has enhanced profits, inflated land values and raised prices for potential purchasers and renters. It has also made Ireland a very attractive place for institutional investment.

As a result, decent housing in urban areas is increasingly out of financial reach; the cost of housing is damaging Ireland’s competitiveness and putting serious pressure on government finances. According to Gillen Markets, an experienced advisor to large funds, the greatest risk to investors now is that the government might do something to make housing more affordable.

The housing policies of the parties of the left are actually quite conservative in the context of Ireland’s century-long history. Indeed, their centrist policies are the very ones the larger parties were proud of not that long ago. Building housing that is affordable, rather than helping people buy housing that is unaffordable, is neither radical nor reactionary.

SmokyMo · 14-05-2021 8:42am

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Great article in The Journal this morning from Dr Lorcan Sirr who is Senior Lecturer in Planning and Development at the Technological University Dublin and not a member of any political party; and Orla Hegarty who is an architect and Assistant Professor of Architecture in UCD and not a member of any political party.

It's a long read but worthwhile. Here are some extracts which really stood out for me.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/housing-crisis-ireland-5436118-May2021/

She is excellent on twitter. https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty

Cal4567 · 14-05-2021 9:01am

Villa05 wrote: »

Governments own research in 2019 showed that investment funds would not deliver affordable homes and threatened monopolistic powers in areas of the market they dominated according to indo

A bit of stating the obvious, but at least we know that they know

But even that report concluded that it was only apartments in Dublin, so it sort of didn't really matter. It says as much about our in bred attitudes to apartment living.

Villa05 · 14-05-2021 9:15am

Cal4567 wrote:

But even that report concluded that it was only apartments in Dublin.

Yet we continously hear from politicians that these investment funds have an insignificant portion of the market, yet there own reports are suggesting that they have or are developing a monopolistic environment in the most expensive market in the country

Mad_maxx · 14-05-2021 9:16am

SmokyMo wrote: »

She is excellent on twitter. https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty

Read some of her , comes across as a #we can be zero type

The mask in the profile is a giveaway to ignore her too

Amadan Dubh · 14-05-2021 9:21am

SmokyMo wrote: »

She is excellent on twitter. https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty

Agreed, very informative and knowledgeable. She is excellent and should be given a prominent platform to speak on the housing issues.

Says a lot about a person would dismiss her property views because she has a face mask in her twitter profile.

PropQueries · 14-05-2021 9:27am

Cal4567 wrote: »

But even that report concluded that it was only apartments in Dublin, so it sort of didn't really matter. It says as much about our in bred attitudes to apartment living.

It is weird alright. For decades, policy makers have been asking us why we don’t embrace apartment living like the Europeans and then they appear to go out of their way to ensure that apartments aren’t built in a family friendly manner or are built with significant structural defects and now they’re ensuring that a family couldn’t buy one even if they wanted to (build-to-rent) and even if they did manage to buy one, there’s a high chance that the apartment next door will be an AirBnB (or whatever takes its place) or social housing.

Never mind the fact that we have one of the lowest population densities in Europe and don’t really need any more apartments and we prefer real houses for very good reasons IMO

But then again, the same policy makers have been asking for decades why we don’t embrace outdoor dining like the Europeans. I don’t think I need to explain why we don’t

Villa05 · 14-05-2021 9:28am

Amadan Dubh wrote:

Says a lot about a person would dismiss her property views because she has a face mask in her twitter profile.

Yes of course, we must only listen to paid lobbyists for specific sectors that profit greatly from policies when implemented

If your opinion is debatable on 1 topic all your points are invalid

If your opinion helped collapse the world financial system, we want more

PropQueries · 14-05-2021 9:45am

According to the SBP today:

“Nine of the country’s 31 local authorities have no sites listed on their vacant site register and six county councils have not valued the sites on their register and so cannot collect the vacant site levy.”

I think I’ve driven through every county in Ireland at some stage over the past few years and for 9 local authorities to have no sites at all on their register is impossible.

Link to SBP article here: https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/almost-half-of-local-authorities-not-set-up-to-collect-vacant-site-levy-2d0c4678

Cyrus · 14-05-2021 9:46am

this 3 bed with no garden made 880k according to the PPR,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvqbmAJZ4U

It must be at nearly 800 a sq foot in dalkey now for ready to move in properties.

Hubertj · 14-05-2021 10:08am

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Agreed, very informative and knowledgeable. She is excellent and should be given a prominent platform to speak on the housing issues.

Says a lot about a person would dismiss her property views because she has a face mask in her twitter profile.

Yes Twitter is an excellent way of communicating with the general public when a significant majority of the general public doesn’t use Twitter.

A much better way of communicating is through articles such as the journal article you linked, which is excellent.

Amadan Dubh · 14-05-2021 10:23am

Hubertj wrote: »

Yes Twitter is an excellent way of communicating with the general public when a significant majority of the general public doesn’t use Twitter.

A much better way of communicating is through articles such as the journal article you linked, which is excellent.

I don't have twitter, I just clicked into the link posted and read through the property pieces. While I don't agree with the concentration of politicians, journalists, etc. on Twitter, it at least attracts more people of education and authority than those who use Snapchat, Facebook or Tik Tok - I don't think the same calibre of posting would appear on these platforms!

Mad_maxx · 14-05-2021 10:57am

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Agreed, very informative and knowledgeable. She is excellent and should be given a prominent platform to speak on the housing issues.

Says a lot about a person would dismiss her property views because she has a face mask in her twitter profile.

i read a good bit of her twitter page , most of it is extreme covid 19 prevention stuff , endless tweets about the danger of spread in classrooms etc

she comes across as an ISAG type so thats enough for me to dismiss her

CorkRed93 · 14-05-2021 11:03am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i read a good bit of her twitter page , most of it is extreme covid 19 prevention stuff , endless tweets about the danger of spread in classrooms etc

she comes across as an ISAG type so thats enough for me to dismiss her

seems logical!

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1