Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

robinbird · 11-05-2021 12:09AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I do not have asthma, so I wouldn't comment on it as I wouldn't know how being on certain medication would indicate how severe their asthma.
Look at the cohort 7 figures, look at the illnesses listed there, there's **** all done. These are people at high risk and healthy 50 year olds are being done before them.

Cohort 4 and Cohort 7 have been used interchangeably. So most of those that have Cohort 7 criteria have already been referred as part of the 250,000 Cohort 4 referrals. Most of those who have been complaining in this thread about not being allowed skip the queue are self diagnosed mild asthmatics that do not meet the Cohort 7 criteria.

political analyst · 11-05-2021 12:11AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0510/1219641-covid19-ireland/

.... over 1.8 million doses of Covid-19 vaccines were administered by the Health Service Executive up to last Saturday, 8 May.

So far, almost half a million people have been fully vaccinated.

Why is the exact number of people fully vaccinated so far not yet available?

robinbird · 11-05-2021 12:12AM

irishlad. wrote: »

What cohort will the 59-50 age group go under?

Strazdas wrote: »

None - they are part of the general population due to be vaccinated and are considered the healthy ones.

Thought this strange as well. The 60-69s have their own cohort so doesn't make sense that the 50-59 group don't.

ACitizenErased · 11-05-2021 12:12AM

robinbird wrote: »

Cohort 4 and Cohort 7 have been used interchangeably. So most of those that have Cohort 7 criteria have already been referred as part of the 250,000 Cohort 4 referrals. Most of those who have been complaining in this thread about not being allowed skip the queue are self diagnosed mild asthmatics that do not meet the Cohort 7 criteria.

Would love to hear how self-diagnosed people get access to high dose medications.

Wolf359f · 11-05-2021 12:14AM

robinbird wrote: »

Cohort 4 and Cohort 7 have been used interchangeably. So most of those that have Cohort 7 criteria have already been referred as part of the 250,000 Cohort 4 referrals. Most of those who have been complaining in this thread about not being allowed skip the queue are self diagnosed mild asthmatics that do not meet the Cohort 7 criteria.

There's 350,000 in cohort 7, 250,000 in cohort 4. In total only 260,000 have been done between the 2. So I don't see how most of the 350,000 in cohort 7 have been referred to as cohort 4. Figures simple don't add up.

robinbird · 11-05-2021 12:15AM

political analyst wrote: »

Why is the exact number of people fully vaccinated so far not yet available?

It is 499,789 up till last saturday.

Wolf359f · 11-05-2021 12:18AM

robinbird wrote: »

It is 499,789 up till last saturday.

That's hard to remember, maybe just say close to half a million!
God people just like bitching about anything.
Me thinks the OP knows damn well there's multiple official online sources for the exact figures.

ceegee · 11-05-2021 12:20AM

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0510/1219641-covid19-ireland/

Why is the exact number of people fully vaccinated so far not yet available?

The exact number upto end of day Saturday is widely available (499789). The exact number upto end of day Sunday will be available tomorrow morning. Theres a one day delay for the data from various sources to be compiled.

Chuzzle7 · 11-05-2021 12:21AM

When registering for the vaccine, can you choose your time and day or do they choose that for you?

ceegee · 11-05-2021 12:27AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's 350,000 in cohort 7, 250,000 in cohort 4. In total only 260,000 have been done between the 2. So I don't see how most of the 350,000 in cohort 7 have been referred to as cohort 4. Figures simple don't add up.

Do the 350k and 250k cover all ages with those conditions? Surely a significant amount of these people are being done as part of their age group?

robinbird · 11-05-2021 12:29AM

Chuzzle7 wrote: »

When registering for the vaccine, can you choose your time and day or do they choose that for you?

I suspect come mid June you will be able to pick your day, time and brand of vaccine. However at the moment you go where and when you're told and take what you're given.

robinbird · 11-05-2021 12:33AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's 350,000 in cohort 7, 250,000 in cohort 4. In total only 260,000 have been done between the 2. So I don't see how most of the 350,000 in cohort 7 have been referred to as cohort 4. Figures simple don't add up.

ceegee wrote: »

Do the 350k and 250k cover all ages with those conditions? Surely a significant amount of these people are being done as part of their age group?

You would have to assume that as older people have more health issues that a significant number of those within those cohorts would already have been done separately as part of the age rollout.
As well from what I recall Cohort 4 was originally estimated at 140,000 yet it is already up to 260,000 referrals.

bodhrandude · 11-05-2021 12:37AM

I'm thinking now I'm one of the luckier ones to get done in cohort 7, my GP was vaccinating folk from both cohorts so I'm glad I got that first shot. Out of curiosity I use these type of inhalers, a Trelegy Ellipta inhaler and a normal Ventolin one but my condition is emphysema rather than asthma.

Wolf359f · 11-05-2021 12:37AM

ceegee wrote: »

Do the 350k and 250k cover all ages with those conditions? Surely a significant amount of these people are being done as part of their age group?

There would be a lot of crossovers. Even so far as some of the 350k and 250k would also be HCW's.
But if the plan is to just roll out cohort 7 in line with the age groups, then they may as well dump cohort 7 and have all high risk register by age.

robinbird · 11-05-2021 12:44AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

There would be a lot of crossovers. Even so far as some of the 350k and 250k would also be HCW's.
But if the plan is to just roll out cohort 7 in line with the age groups, then they may as well dump cohort 7 and have all high risk register by age.

To an extent that may be what is happening. You would hope that anyone genuinely at risk or receiving ongoing treatment would already have gotten a Cohort 4/7 referral.
However anecdotally I have heard of some people that have been using GP referrals to choose their vaccine. e.g people in their 60s who have gotten a portal referral for AZ going to their doctor and getting a cohort 4 referral for Pfizer instead. Would assume that the GPs will be busy for next two weeks giving cohort 4 referrals to 50 -59s that have got a text saying they are getting AZ.

Wolf359f · 11-05-2021 12:47AM

robinbird wrote: »

You would have to assume that as older people have more health issues that a significant number of those within those cohorts would already have been done separately as part of the age rollout.
As well from what I recall Cohort 4 was originally estimated at 140,000 yet it is already up to 260,000 referrals.

It was revised upwards to 250,000. That wasn't done because they went past 140k referrals and decided we best just add 110k on to the figure or else people may question it. They could have been initial estimates and revised upwards when they got more information.

I assume the initial estimates excluded 70+ in the figures. But your point still stands, you would assume the higher the age the more chance of underlying conditions.
It's just weird how that doesn't feed into cohort 4 high figures. You would assume that they would also be going at a snail's pace because the age rollout would be hoovering up those figures.

It's very easy to see progress on all the other cohorts. For the 50-69, it was announced daily when x age could sign up, so people could see progress. Cohort 7, just doesn't seem to have that transparency.

If the HSE came out and said they are still processing all the referrals and they will be starting cohort 7 on this day, that would be a relief at least. There just doesn't seem to be any communication at all. All I've seen was the HSE vaccine report saying cohort 7 has started and other reports stating it's starting early May.

Wolf359f · 11-05-2021 12:51AM

robinbird wrote: »

To an extent that may be what is happening. You would hope that anyone genuinely at risk or receiving ongoing treatment would already have gotten a Cohort 4/7 referral.
However anecdotally I have heard of some people that have been using GP referrals to choose their vaccine. e.g people in their 60s who have gotten a portal referral for AZ going to their doctor and getting a cohort 4 referral for Pfizer instead. Would assume that the GPs will be busy for next two weeks giving cohort 4 referrals to 50 -59s that have got a text saying they are getting AZ.

Well my GP is not doing cohort 4 or 7. Hospitals clinic gave my name to the HSE, heard nothing since.

If people in their 60's who are not in cohort 4 or 7 and are going to their GP for a Pfizer jab instead, well there's something up there. If they were in cohort 4 or 7, well there was nothing stopping them getting Pfizer from their GP as soon as their GP's started it.

Scuid Mhór · 11-05-2021 12:54AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Exactly , no workable solution was offered
( ps . I am a she !!! )

Noted, no disrespect intended!

robinbird · 11-05-2021 01:01AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Well my GP is not doing cohort 4 or 7. Hospitals clinic gave my name to the HSE, heard nothing since.

If people in their 60's who are not in cohort 4 or 7 and are going to their GP for a Pfizer jab instead, well there's something up there. If they were in cohort 4 or 7, well there was nothing stopping them getting Pfizer from their GP as soon as their GP's started it.

Indeed. You would wonder why some people are waiting till they get the age referral to ask their GP for a referral.
Cohort 4/7 is leading to at least a perception of unfairness. Some GPs seem to be referring everyone on their patient lists on request. Others with genuine health issues are with GPs that aren't participating so are in limbo.
Given that most of those at risk have probably already been referred we might be better off just scrapping Cohort 7 and proceeding purely on age.
However given that we will be ramping up numbers GPs will be a useful addition for another few weeks at least so referrals from patient lists will continue.

Turtwig · 11-05-2021 01:29AM

I don't think it would be prudent to go age only at the moment. Some cohort 7 folks are difficult to define. There may also be issues with their referrals for a vaccination. These could be part of a much larger problem. Too early to tell. Either way you'd have to fix that problem. As otherwise people at high risk will be waiting several more weeks. All the while the disease is still circulating at relatively high levels in some communities. Delaying these people's vaccinations could actually impact the rate at which we relax restrictions.

robinbird · 11-05-2021 01:44AM

Interesting figures coming out of Northern Ireland. Significant vaccine hesitancy in the 16- 39 age group. Well below 50% uptake.
Likely once the 40s are done here by early June it will be the same here.

Turtwig · 11-05-2021 01:46AM

robinbird wrote: »

All the worked up mild asthmatics need to stop with the righteous indignation.
Using an inhaler you bought in a shop does not entitle you to jump the queue.
You need to be getting specific medication to qualify for Cohort 7. Age is a greater risk factor so you will just have to wait your turn in this age based rollout.
Or else find a GP that will add you to the 250,000 that have already got a Cohort 4 referral, many for the asthma.

It's possible for other comorbidities to exist along side asthma. We have no way of knowing whether a poster is a certain cohort. It's a bit much to dismiss something as righteous indignation when you have no way knowing the person's personal situation.

There's many people in Ireland in these cohorts who've scoffed at the suggestion they belong in one not appreciating how vulnerable they actually were to covid.There's many others that think their risk to covid is massively greater than it likely is and feel they belong in a vulnerable cohort. There's many that know exactly where they belong. There's some who even with the best of intentions it's not clear which cohort, if any, they fall into. And all kinds in between these. There's a huge variety. So many different sources of anxiety for some. All we can do here is assist people in how to resolve their issues. We can't assume anything. We simply have no way of knowing their personal circumstances.

Turtwig · 11-05-2021 02:02AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Would love to hear how self-diagnosed people get access to high dose medications.

From the Internet. Trips abroad is another.

robinbird · 11-05-2021 02:25AM

Turtwig wrote: »

There's many people in Ireland in these cohorts who've scoffed at the suggestion they belong in one not appreciating how vulnerable they actually were to covid.There's many others that think their risk to covid is massively greater than it likely is and feel they belong in a vulnerable cohort. There's many that know exactly where they belong. There's some who even with the best of intentions it's not clear which cohort, if any, they fall into. And all kinds in between these. There's a huge variety. So many different sources of anxiety for some. All we can do here is assist people in how to resolve their issues. We can't assume anything. We simply have no way of knowing their personal circumstances.

But is this not an argument for just getting rid of Cohort 7 and referring everyone based on age. All those undergoing clinical medical treatment of who are objectively clearly at risk have already been referred in the 260,000 cohort 4/7 referrals already done.

So if you take away the idea they are at additional and special risk and should be looking for cohort 7 referral then maybe you remove to an extent the anxiety and nervousness for these people. They would just have to accept that they will have to wait their turn.

Deeper Blue · 11-05-2021 04:13AM

robinbird wrote: »

Interesting figures coming out of Northern Ireland. Significant vaccine hesitancy in the 16- 39 age group. Well below 50% uptake.
Likely once the 40s are done here by early June it will be the same here.

47% of 30-39 year olds have been jabbed so I wouldn't say "well below 50%", also that doesn't mean the other 53% don't want it.

Considering that cohort could only book jabs from 30th April onwards I actually think having half of that group vaccinated already is quite impressive.

11-05-2021 06:31AM

robinbird wrote: »

Interesting figures coming out of Northern Ireland. Significant vaccine hesitancy in the 16- 39 age group. Well below 50% uptake.
Likely once the 40s are done here by early June it will be the same here.

Would suggest, in most cases its inertia rather than hesitancy which is driving it.

seamus · 11-05-2021 07:41AM

Turtwig wrote: »

I don't think it would be prudent to go age only at the moment. Some cohort 7 folks are difficult to define. There may also be issues with their referrals for a vaccination. These could be part of a much larger problem. Too early to tell. Either way you'd have to fix that problem. As otherwise people at high risk will be waiting several more weeks. All the while the disease is still circulating at relatively high levels in some communities. Delaying these people's vaccinations could actually impact the rate at which we relax restrictions.

It's all a bit of a mess with cohort 7. As it's been said to me, cohort 4 was more easily controlled. The GP had to register each dose against a PPSN (or maybe IHI), which meant it's was very easy to audit and ensure that doses were going in the right arms.

With cohort 7 the GPs know that there's virtually no way to audit it. Someone with a pre-existing condition doesn't need to have come to the attention of the HSE before. Retroactive audits may be possible, but I suspect once the vaccine programme is done, all sins will be quietly forgiven, the HSE will have no interest in raking back over old records.

As a result, people are getting vaccinated out of order. I know of 6 that occurred over the weekend in 3 different GPs.

We can only trust that for the most part, GPs are prioritising the "true" cohort 7 cases, and anyone else getting an early jab is just being given spare doses.

But then I'm not entirely sure how a referral system with GPs would be any different. If GPs can refer someone in cohort 7 to an MVC, then they can refer anyone.

muckisluck · 11-05-2021 08:08AM

The roll out of the vaccine is so unpredictable. Early on in the process there was a lot of vaccinating of people who had very tenuous links to front line services. Then we heard a lot of instances of doctors vaccinating people who did not seem to meet the criteria for vulnerability. When it went to portal registration I felt happier that these instances would be a thing of the past. Not so it seems. Some areas of the country are flying through the age groups while others (like mine in Louth) are going at snails pace with many over 60s still waiting on a vaccine. Why is this happening. Surely vulnerable 60+ year olds are vulnerable no matter where they live. While there is a MVC in Dundalk I can only guess that it must be working with very low staffing or very poor supplies. Even with catering for Louth, parts of Meath and Monaghan, surely the numbers here are smaller than places like Cork, Galway, City West etc. Yet these centres are all down to the 50's age groups. Anecdotally it seems other centres around the country are in the same boat as ours. It is very frustrating when the point at issue is potentially life and death.

is_that_so · 11-05-2021 08:09AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

But they did enable the programme to get up and running quickly. They had the data and the alternative would have taken more time.

Not sure what alternative you imagine here. They are the GPs so you'd hope they'd have the data but they did not come up with the plan. For this phase now ending they've been key but what we are now moving into they are just one part of a very big system.

Panrich · 11-05-2021 08:16AM

robinbird wrote: »

But is this not an argument for just getting rid of Cohort 7 and referring everyone based on age. All those undergoing clinical medical treatment of who are objectively clearly at risk have already been referred in the 260,000 cohort 4/7 referrals already done.

So if you take away the idea they are at additional and special risk and should be looking for cohort 7 referral then maybe you remove to an extent the anxiety and nervousness for these people. They would just have to accept that they will have to wait their turn.

It’s not about jumping the queue.

The advice against giving AZ to cohort 7 is the problem. There’s no way to distinguish on the portal and people may end up with an unsuitable vaccine for their conditions simply based on age.
It’s no good telling these people to take whatever they’ve been offered while that advice is out there.

It’s causing a lot of anxiety for many many people who are the in the most vulnerable unvaccinated group.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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