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Spiral out - keep going

1456810

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    No 10 mile TT for me on Sunday. Had the week off work but have been non stop painting in the house which will continue until Monday. I'm not used to doing manual labour as spend most of my days sitting in front of a computer. Did my easy runs on Tuesday and Wednesday and legs felt super tired and stiff. Thursday's run was the same so made the decision then. It's a shame I can't do it but I feel like I've made the right decision. The extra stress this week would've increased the chance of injury. Life can get in the way sometimes

    So going to spend this week as a recovery week after the 10k TT and go back into the training cycle next week. Tomorrow is 7 miles easy and 14 miles easy on Sunday


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Last week All easy

    Tues 23rd 7m easy - 8:48 (grass)
    Wed 24th 7m easy - 8:42 (grass)
    Thurs 25th 6m easy - 8:38 Made the decision to not run the 10m TT
    Fri 26th 7m easy - 8:22
    Sat 27th 7m easy - 8:50 (grass)
    Sun 28th 12m easy - 8:42

    Was painting all week so legs were super fatigued all week, even at that easy pace

    This week return to normal training

    Tues 30th 7m easy - 8:55avg (grass). Finished most of the painting by now so was hoping the legs would freshen up some bit

    Wed 31st 20'@5:55, 5min rec, 12x1' on/off. 15' wu/cd
    Didn't know how this would go and how tired my legs would be. Said to myself that getting the 20' tempo done would be most of the battle won. Decided to wear the NEXT% and do the whole session on the flat Passage walkway.

    First mile of the tempo felt ok, was on target and the legs were good 5:56. Second mile and still going okay 5.54. Third mile and I was feeling it 5:55. Last 2mins were 5:54. The extra bit after doing a 5k in a 20' tempo is always the worst, feel like there's no point doing it. Plus the quicker these 20' tempos get, the longer you have to run after the 5k :D

    Was glad that it went to plan and tried to recover for the 5 minutes. Sometimes you can wing it through these 1 minute reps. Target pace was 5:30 and hit the first 6 under that pace. My legs though, seemed to double in weight and I was struggling to keep on pace. Next 6 were mainly just off target but was happy having to struggle through them.

    Legs survived the session so things would be able to go back to normal

    Thurs 1st 7m easy - 8:43avg (grass) was a struggle this one

    Fri 2nd 12x12" hill sprints, 25' wu/cd - 8:12avg
    Wore the 4% for this. They now serve me no purpose for sessions or races so will take the benefits of them for hill sprints. Nearly 200 miles on them so should give me another few months of wear

    Sat 2nd 7m easy - 8:34avg (grass)

    Sun 3rd 12m@6:35, 2m wu/cd
    Was feeling good about this one. 6:35 pace should be ok at this stage and was looking like a good morning to run. As the pace wasn't too hot, I wore the Nike Tempos. I settled into a nice comfortable pace (obviously after the usual sub 6 min starting pace) and was happy to see 6:30 average pace after the first 2 miles. The next couple were in or around that pace so I said I'd see how the rest goes at that pace.

    Legs were good as I got to the halfway point. Next 2 brought me to the end of the passage walkway and the turnaround. Once turned I was going into the wind, not strong but enough to slow the pace a bit. Had a decision to make on whether to battle into it to keep the 6:30 average or ease back. These runs are more structural so decided to ease it back a bit for the last 4 miles. Finished the 12 with a 6:33 average. That, coupled with 1.1 mile of the cooldown, gave me another HM PB of 1:27:51 - I should really run a HM TT.

    Nice run. Only complaint is the Tempo are not the most comfortable to run in for longer miles

    Weekly milesge - 56
    YTD - 716

    Have decided to do a rotation/downgrading for the shoes I'll wear for different types of runs
    Easy - Invincibles for road/ Pegasus turbo2 for grass (was Invincibles & std pegasus)
    Hill sprints - 4% (was pegasus turbo 2s) explained above
    Sessions - Longer Structural runs - will keep with the Tempos for now
    Midweek/Endurance runs - NEXT% and MetaSpeed Sky
    Races - Alphaflys

    Purchased the Metaspeed Sky this week so will give this pair a test drive for my faster work. Hoping they suit me. From looking at my running, my stride increases nearly 50% from easy running to TT. We'll see.

    Some may say it's a waste of money using these carbon plated shoes in training but they'll help me in the recovery (and paces). Plus I haven't touched a drink since July so just pi$$ing money away on shoes instead :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    :pac::pac: Fair comment! And as I spend more a month on drink than the price of a pair of Metaspeed I will zip it :D

    Any word on your shoes? I have nothing appearing delivery wise or no updates on the order..:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Hasn’t drank since July..........


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    :pac::pac: Fair comment! And as I spend more a month on drink than the price of a pair of Metaspeed I will zip it :D

    Any word on your shoes? I have nothing appearing delivery wise or no updates on the order..:confused:

    Nope, still stuck on not shipped. Although I just checked under my orders and status is saying contact Customer Support. Not good, I hope they didn't take the order without having it in stock. I hate online sports stores that do that


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Hasn’t drank since July..........
    I said I wouldn't drink until we get out of all these lockdowns and go back to some form of normality. Didn't think I'd reach a year, now I'll be lucky to get a drink before Christmas :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Treviso wrote: »
    Nope, still stuck on not shipped. Although I just checked under my orders and status is saying contact Customer Support. Not good, I hope they didn't take the order without having it in stock. I hate online sports stores that do that

    I'm getting the same message and 2 emails have yet to yield a reply....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Treviso wrote: »
    I said I wouldn't drink until we get out of all these lockdowns and go back to some form of normality. Didn't think I'd reach a year, now I'll be lucky to get a drink before Christmas :mad:

    I haven’t had a drink since 30seconds ago. That’s very commendable man, fair play to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Treviso wrote: »
    Sun 3rd 12m@6:35, 2m wu/cd
    Was feeling good about this one. 6:35 pace should be ok at this stage and was looking like a good morning to run. As the pace wasn't too hot, I wore the Nike Tempos. I settled into a nice comfortable pace

    Its mad isn't it how our ideas of pace changes as the session and weeks go on!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Its mad isn't it how our ideas of pace changes as the session and weeks go on!!
    Yes totally. Just checked and I struggled to run 10 of these in December. Who knows, in July I might find 6:10 a comfortable pace!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Treviso wrote: »

    Fri 2nd 12x12" hill sprints, 25' wu/cd - 8:12avg
    Wore the 4% for this. They now serve me no purpose for sessions or races so will take the benefits of them for hill sprints. Nearly 200 miles on them so should give me another few months of wear

    Five days on and it still hurts when I think about this :D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Five days on and it still hurts when I think about this :D:D

    Still a great shoe but better options out there now. Did my first marathon, first sub 20 5k and still feel great running in them. But for sessions, even the Nike Tempos are faster these days

    They would be ideal for moderate long tempo runs but I don't do any of them anymore. So I'd rather put them to some use, than storing them away in case some suitable run crops up


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    I've never really found much of a difference between the 4% and Next% tbh. The OG's sole not quite as durable, but I'd happily wear a new pair of 4% in place of the Next% and not be worried about losing anything in the process.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    healy1835 wrote: »
    I've never really found much of a difference between the 4% and Next% tbh. The OG's sole not quite as durable, but I'd happily wear a new pair of 4% in place of the Next% and not be worried about losing anything in the process.

    Wasn't it true that they were called Next% because after testing they couldn't reach a 5% improvement over the baseline used in naming the 4%?


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Tues 6th - 7m easy, 8:32avg grass
    Thurs 8th - 7m easy, 8:28avg grass
    Fri 9th - 12x12" hill sprints, 8:17avg
    Sat 19th - 7m easy, 8:28 grass

    Wed 7th, 10'@5:55,5min rec,5x1' on/off,5min rec, 10'@5:55,5min rec,5x1' on/off, 10'@5:55, 15'WU/CD
    First look at this session and first thought was the coach did a double paste on the 10'@5:55 part. Second glance, I noticed the lack of 5min easy after the second set of 5x1's. I did check previous sessions of other athletes to confirm that this was indeed correct

    Did the 15' min warmup in the Invincibles before switching to the Next%. First 10 mins goes ok, probably started too fast and had to slow myself for the last 3 mins 5:55. Recovered ok and as a result the first couple of reps for the 5x1' were probably too fast 5:22,5:15,5:27,5:32,5:37.

    Second 10' rep started fast again but was feeling strong for it. My progress was slowed when a toddler ran across across the path, forcing me to check and go around the chasing mother. Was able to recover 5:54. Second set of 5x1' were in a dodgy GPS part of the greenway so can't be sure if they are accurate or I was suffering 5:40,5:59,5:39,5:28,5:36

    This is where it got really difficult. with just a minute recovery, I was into my final 10 min rep. First 5 minutes were with the wind and I just about sub 6 minute pace. Had no choice but to turn and finish into the wind. My legs had nothing left and my form went out the window as I struggled to the finish 6:04. Trudged around for the 15' cooldown.

    Sun 11th, 6m@6:10, 4m wu/cd
    Start of the new cycle of mileage at the increased 6:10 pace. Was confident for the 6 mile effort but unsure of the upcoming 8 and 10 miles. Again wore the Next%. Started off strong and settled into a 6:03 first mile. I was feeling ok as well. Next mile was a 6:02 and everything was rosy. Had a turnaround here so the next 2 would be into the wind. Was still ok for the 3rd mile, 6:04, partly due to passing some other runners which always results in false speed.

    Running into the wind eventually took it's toll and next mile was a 6:10. Still into the wind and with a turn, the next mile was a 6:08. Last mile was a mixed bag but found that I finished quite strong 6:05 to give a 6:06avg for the 6. Recovered quickly for the cooldown.

    Weekly mileage - 57 miles
    YTD - 772

    As those of you who follow the shoe thread, I was able to order a pair of the new Asics MetaSpeed Sky after some initial worry about the order. Got my shipping confirmation but won't be certain about it until they are actually in my hands. They better live up to their reviews now.

    They will be nicknamed the MetaSpeed Skyblue46s when they arrive :p:p


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    You fookin langer boy!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    That Wednesday session looked damn tough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Tues 13th - 7m easy, 8:25avg grass

    Wed 14th - 10x3'@10mile pace, 35sec recoveries, 15' wu/cd
    All the focus was on the 35sec recoveries and how I would be able to get through it. Breaking it down though, it was "only" going to be 30min work at 10 mile pace (5:55). I had done 20mins in one go the previous week. It turned out to be a good session for me, short and fast. Pace in the 3 mins felt comfortable at 5:55 and was able to top up the breath during the 35 seconds recoveries (which I was able to jog instead of walking). With 3 reps to go I pushed the pace to 10k pace (5:45). Reps were 5:55, 5:56, 5:49, 5:56, 5:52, 5:52, 5:51, 5:50, 5:46, 5:40
    Turned out to be roughly a 10x800m with 35sec rec session. Legs felt fresh during the cooldown.

    Thurs 15th - 7m easy, 8:12avg grass. last mile and a half barefoot. Been a while since I've been able to run barefoot without freaking people out. Felt good. Legs were super fresh even after the previous day's session

    Fri 16th - 12x12" hill sprints, 25' wu/cd Legs felt great again, deja vu hill session

    Sat 17th - 7m easy, 8:12avg grass. last 1.5 miles barefoot again

    Sun 18th - 8m@6:10, 3m wu/cd
    Plan had this at 4m@6:15 4m@6:10 but felt I could do the 8 at 6:10 pace. Got my MetaSpeed SkyBlue46 shoes during the week so wanted to try them out for this session. All was good during the 3 mile warmup, switched into the new shoes and started on the 8 fast miles. The Metas felt quite firm, not as bouncy as Nike's super shoes but read that they would come good at faster paces. First couple hundred of metres saw the usual too fast pace but it settled into a 6:15 pace a lot earlier than normal. Almost straight away I needed to put the work in to keep up the pace, whereas with the NEXT%s it felt a lot easier the previous week. First mile was a 6:08 but didn't feel easy.

    Thought that maybe it was just the first mile and they would loosen out. The second mile felt better, was doing a more naturally stride and getting into a rhythm 6:12. Third mile though and the pace started to decrease. Told myself to up the effort again, a lot sooner than I would have to normally. Third mile was a 6:14 and the fourth, with a steep footbridge, 6:19. Watch said 6:14avg so needed to up it again, getting like a TT now. Next miles were on time 6:10, 6:10. 2 miles left but into the wind. The marina straight never felt so long and tried my best to push on but second last mile was a 6:16. Was able to finish with a fast mile 6:02 to finish with a 6:12 avg for the 8

    So the Metas are back in their Asics box, waiting to be sent back tomorrow. Why you ask? Well, they are not a bad shoe, legs feel quite good after the run today but I've no doubt that if I had the NEXT% on today I would have easily hit the 6:10 average for the 8. I actually feel if I had them on and put in that effort, I would've gone closer to 6 min pace. The Meta Skys feel very similar to Nikes Zoom Fly 3s, solid shoe but doesn't give you the same bounce or zip as the NEXT% or Alphas

    So the choice was to either keep the Metas or swap them for the new NEXT% v2 - easy decision.

    Weekly mileage - 52 miles
    YTD - 824


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Very interesting...and at odds with many of the reviews but let's face it reviews are a personal opinion too. I think I'll plough ahead and try to get them when the next batch are released. I kinda like the fact that you say they are not as soft or squishy as the Next%. Cheers for the feedback :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Genuine question, but would you be hitting the paces you are without the aid of carbon plated shoes? Do you use them on every run you do?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Very interesting...and at odds with many of the reviews but let's face it reviews are a personal opinion too. I think I'll plough ahead and try to get them when the next batch are released. I kinda like the fact that you say they are not as soft or squishy as the Next%. Cheers for the feedback :)

    It may just be that they don't suit my running style as much as Nikes, maybe it's all psychological and I'm brainwashed by their marketing. Who knows :D
    OOnegative wrote: »
    Genuine question, but would you be hitting the paces you are without the aid of carbon plated shoes? Do you use them on every run you do?
    Thanks for the question B and I'll try to answer as honest as I can
    I never used to run with carbon plated shoes and still wear the Nike Tempos at times. Made the decision a couple of weeks ago to run these sessions in those shoes, for two reasons:
    1. Paces: Yes I can run quicker in them but they'll indicate where I'm currently at in terms of race pace. In a weird way, it'll like before all of these carbon plated shoes were around (not that I know what that was like). Training pace only will dictate race pace - no other factors involved
    2. Recovery: Legs certainly are fresher after running in those shoes - which helps avoiding injuries (along with grass running)
    I've only been running for 2 and a half years which was the start of the VF craze. Its part and parcel of running for me, I've never experienced racing flat shoes nor would I want to. I don't consider them cheat shoes, just another bit of kit along with everything else. So it's not as big as a decision for me as it might be for someone who has been running longer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    I wasn’t questioning your fitness first and foremost, I own one pair of “cheat shoes” let’s call them but genuinely don’t get the hype. Look I hate U2 to!!

    Great to see such improvements T in just 2.5 years, keep it up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Genuine question, but would you be hitting the paces you are without the aid of carbon plated shoes? Do you use them on every run you do?

    I know nothing about Treviso, but I’m guessing he wouldn’t be hitting the paces he is (no offence), without the aid of carbon plated shoes. The huge chunks of time being taken off world records on the road recently, is all the proof you should need that these shoes help people run faster.

    I didn’t get my hands on carbon fibre soled shoes until 2019. Now I own five pairs, and generally wear one of the pairs for any run of consequence. I don’t think I’ve yet hit my form of 2018, but I’m getting there. I’ve no doubt the improvements in running shoes are helping me get there quicker. But so what? The shoes are here to stay. Either buy expensive runners utilising the latest technology, or don’t. Then once you’ve bought them, either wear them, or don’t. After that, I think people just need to stop going on about them. The horse has bolted, and nobody will be questioning the fairness of carbon plated shoes in 10 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    zico10 wrote: »
    I know nothing about Treviso, but I’m guessing he wouldn’t be hitting the paces he is (no offence), without the aid of carbon plated shoes. The huge chunks of time being taken off world records on the road recently, is all the proof you should need that these shoes help people run faster.

    I didn’t get my hands on carbon fibre soled shoes until 2019. Now I own five pairs, and generally wear one of the pairs for any run of consequence. I don’t think I’ve yet hit my form of 2018, but I’m getting there. I’ve no doubt the improvements in running shoes are helping me get there quicker. But so what? The shoes are here to stay. Either buy expensive runners utilising the latest technology, or don’t. Then once you’ve bought them, either wear them, or don’t. After that, I think people just need to stop going on about them. The horse has bolted, and nobody will be questioning the fairness of carbon plated shoes in 10 years.

    There is a lot to agree with here. I listened to an Asics presentation explain that the learnings from their research into the Metaspeed Sky would be passed down to other shoes in the range and I have no doubt that the gap between super shoes and mid range shoes will narrow. At the same time I see so many people looking to buy shoes on a budget and never before has the difference between budget and premium be so great in performance terms. Hopefully it will settle down shortly


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    I'd say he'd hit the paces, but with a bigger effort.
    The benefits are running faster AND recovery, but the session he had this week could have been completed with non carbon shoes.

    I own 4 pairs of carbon (Or Nylon) plated shoes and consider these my session shoes.
    No harm in that, its the same for most runners I would guess.

    I actually don't even know what non plated shoes you'd wear for a session? Or why you'd avoid it if you own a few pairs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Treviso, just curious about the Meta Sky. The geometry of the sky according to asics is more for the stride runner. Anything there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Treviso, just curious about the Meta Sky. The geometry of the sky according to asics is more for the stride runner. Anything there?

    I looked at the average stride length from this week's run, compared to last week. This week was 3 mile warmup, 8 miles tempo, 3 mile cool down. Last week was 4 mile warmup, 6 mile tempo, 4 mile cooldown.

    You would think that the extra 2 mile tempo would lead to an increased average stride but they were roughly the same (1.15m to 1.13m). Unfortunately, my watch doesn't collect stride length over real time and I'm not sure if I can just split the tempo miles


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Treviso wrote: »
    I looked at the average stride length from this week's run, compared to last week. This week was 3 mile warmup, 8 miles tempo, 3 mile cool down. Last week was 4 mile warmup, 6 mile tempo, 4 mile cooldown.

    You would think that the extra 2 mile tempo would lead to an increased average stride but they were roughly the same (1.15m to 1.13m). Unfortunately, my watch doesn't collect stride length over real time and I'm not sure if I can just split the tempo miles

    Thats interesting in terms of use case. If your stride length didn't increase much then you certainly had a significantly faster cadence for your tempo. Likely you were on your forefoot?

    Just for context, my easy/warm up stride would be about 1.25m and my tempo is 1.55m. I've tried 3 carbon/nylon plate shoes so far. VPN%, Speeds and Fuelcell TC. Next% aside, the shoes feel great at tempo, steady paces but I don't feel they have the pop at short intervals or strides. I actually prefer more road feel for short sharp stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Interesting discussion on the carbon plated shoes. I've gone from being completely against, to being somewhat for them for racing only to now using them in training. I still haven't made the leap to wearing the full whack top shoes like the Next% in training but not far off (fuelcell TC being my session shoe of choice).

    I've noticed a massive difference in effort levels for the carbon shoes when compared to the Adizero 4 for example. Also noticed a big difference in recovery. Really seems like a case of what zico said - the horse has bolted. And it's only going in one direction. In five years people ain't gonna be debating this. It will just be the norm to train in these.

    Still can't accept the 4% for hill reps... Breaks my heart Treviso..... Still... Lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Another week done and dusted, fairly standard running again this week. Looking at the easy running average pace and I must say I was consistent

    Tues 20th - 7m easy, 8:34avg grass

    Wed 21st - 20'@5:55 progress to 5:50, 5min rec, 15x1' on/off
    Had this session three weeks ago but pace for 20' slightly increased and 3 extra 1' reps for my trouble. Good to be back in the NEXT% for this. It was a lovely morning, with the heat increasing as the run progressed.

    First mile of the 20' was into the wind, which helped slow my usual too fast start 5:54. Once I turned and got the advantage of the tailwind, the same effort brought about an increase of pace for the second 5:47. Third mile and I was feeling it, but able to maintain pace 5:48. Last bit of the 20' nearly hits half a mile these days. Pace slowed to 5:56 for this as I wanted to conserve myself for the 1' reps. Ran 18:11 5k time here

    After the 5 min recovery, I felt ok and started on the 1 minute reps. Target was around 5:30-5:35. The route and wind were variable so a few reps were slower than target but was pleased with the effort levels and how the legs were feeling towards the end

    Thurs 22nd - 7m easy, 8:35avg grass

    Fri 23rd - 12x12" hill sprints, 25' wu/cd, 8:06avg

    Sat 24th - 7m easy, 8:35avg grass

    Sun 25th - 8m@6:10, 4m wu/cd
    After sending the Metaspeeds back to Asics on Monday, I had ordered the NEXT% v2 and luckily they arrived for this run. Same session as previous week but with an extra warmup and cool down mile. Wasn't feeling as fresh as the previous week and it was a windy and really warm morning - even at 8am.

    First mile and maybe showing my Nike bias, the 6:10 pace was noticeably easier to maintain. First 2 miles had a tailwind and the times show it 6:07, 6:07. Next half mile was the first hit of the headwind and it nearly gassed me, but was able to survive around the corner into a nicer sidewind 6:11. Was still recovering from the last mile and was finding it tough going 6:15.

    Halfway and had the Blackrock castle hill coming up. Surprisingly was able to get up and down in good shape, but breathing was heavier 6:08. Had to turn into the wind for the next mile which hit me for six 6:16. Had to up the effort a bit here with the remaining two miles into that wind. Next mile was a 6:06, which is remarkable looking back now. Last mile involved the dreaded footbridge at the start of it. Was suffering quite a bit here but managed to keep it going to the end 6:05 for a 6:09 average.

    The 4 mile cool down was torture, felt like my body was shutting down in the last mile. Once I got the recovery drink into me I was fine. Raced home to catch the end of the Wrexham (Cheshire) marathon to see Aoife Cooke win the woman's event with an amazing Olympic qualifying time of 2.28.36. Having the privilege of seeing her training program over the past few months and seeing her in action every Sunday, can't say I'm surprised by the time. Still a monumental achievement for her and hope for her sake that the Olympics now take place.

    Stepback week next week

    Weekly mileage - 57 miles
    Year to date - 881 miles


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    Another savage weeks work nailed T.

    Have you a target race in mind late in the year if we manage to get to the far side of covid?


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Another savage weeks work nailed T.

    Have you a target race in mind late in the year if we manage to get to the far side of covid?

    Might have another TT coming up in June and then it'll be starting the marathon training for either DCM or Manchester. In my opinion DCM won't go ahead so will focus on Manchester. There's a really large number of people doing Manchester so hoping to get a group of similar paced runners together to make the training block a bit easier.

    Have you a race booked other than DCM?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Treviso wrote: »
    Might have another TT coming up in June and then it'll be starting the marathon training for either DCM or Manchester. In my opinion DCM won't go ahead so will focus on Manchester. There's a really large number of people doing Manchester so hoping to get a group of similar paced runners together to make the training block a bit easier.

    Have you a race booked other than DCM?

    I've also booked Manchester - but only as a plan B to Berlin - that being said - with the numbers ging over to Manchester from the group - it could be a very good alternative (or even a Plan A)


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    I've also booked Manchester - but only as a plan B to Berlin - that being said - with the numbers ging over to Manchester from the group - it could be a very good alternative (or even a Plan A)

    We'll have a large amount of runners in Cork going to either Amsterdam or Manchester so all will go through similar or the same training blocks. When you need to hammer out 12-18 miles at MP every other week, then having a group around you is essential imo. Hopefully there is a few Dublin runners from the group with the same marathon pace as you so ye can do similar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    How were the VPN%2?


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    How were the VPN%2?

    Versus the MetaSpeeds, they were a lot bouncier and required pace was easier to maintain. About a 3-5sec per mile faster in my opinion. Versus the v1 of the NEXT%, they were the exact same but a slightly comfier upper fit. AlphaFlys are still my favourite


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Treviso wrote: »
    Versus the MetaSpeeds, they were a lot bouncier and required pace was easier to maintain. About a 3-5sec per mile faster in my opinion. Versus the v1 of the NEXT%, they were the exact same but a slightly comfier upper fit. AlphaFlys are still my favourite

    How do the Alpha flys feel at faster than MP pace??

    I hear they are more of a Marathon pace shoe vrs Next % being more versatile?


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    How do the Alpha flys feel at faster than MP pace??

    I hear they are more of a Marathon pace shoe vrs Next % being more versatile?

    I've worn the Alphas 3 times. First was a 20' tempo to test them out, they felt so springy when I put them on first - noticeable more than the NEXT%. Second was for a 10 mile TT and third for the recent 10k TT. Have to take into account the taper for both TTs, but I felt that the Alphas gave more bounce to my stride. I would wear them for all distances race wise

    It's hard to compare a 10k TT with my 8m tempo on Sunday, but stride length for the TT was 1.41m versus 1.30m in the tempo with the NEXT% v2. Interestingly my average cadence for the tempo was higher than the TT, 202 versus 196. But maybe that is just my lack of running form for the tempo :D

    Enjoyed reading your answers this morning on the Stable news


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Treviso wrote: »

    Enjoyed reading your answers this morning on the Stable news

    :eek:
    Didn't know I was on this week.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    :eek:
    Didn't know I was on this week.

    If OOnegative could see your pic!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    If OOnegative could see your pic!!

    pretty sure he seen it on Social media already :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 t00019475


    Really looking forward to Manchester going ahead. I can see a large number of Irish entries again this year, Dublin marathon would need to plan / announce what's happening with their event.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Was a stepback week for me last week, so plenty of easy running

    Tues 27th, 7m easy - 8:31avg grass
    Wed 28th, 7m easy - 8:20avg went to Tramore Valley park for a change of scenery
    Thurs 29th, 7m easy - 8:29avg grass
    Fri 30th, 12x12" hill sprints - 8:12avg
    Sat 1st, 7m easy - 8:30avg grass

    I don't know what it is with stepback weeks but legs always seem very heavy with no pep in them for the week.

    Sun 2nd, 12m@6:40 & 2m wu/cd
    Have underestimated this run the last two times, thinking it would be a piece of cake compared to the faster paced runs. I was prepared this time but still found elements of the run tough.

    Wore the Nike Tempo for this run and my god how uncomfortable they felt. Like two bricks covered with sandpaper on my feet. I guess I've experienced what AMK was talking about in his log, been spoiling my feet too much with super cushioning. Need to lose a toenail or gain multiple blisters to call myself a proper runner.

    After the usual 5.xx pace start, I quickly settled into the required 6:40 pace (or a bit below it). First bit of the run was with the wind so was relaxed enough. Pace began to slow a bit and I didn't feel like I was in a good rhythm by halfway. Mentally I was feeling the slog and thought I would struggle till the end. I knew the last 4 miles would be into the wind so needed to get a move on for miles 7 & 8. Passage walkway is such a nice part of a run to get some fast miles, dead straight and flat for most of it.

    By the time I turned into the wind, I was in a good zone so kept it going. I wasn't pushing myself to the max but the effort levels felt ok. Finished the run with a 6:35 average and another HM PB of 1:27:15.

    The Tempos definitely don't give the same recovery benefits of the NEXT% as the legs are quite stiff today. The fear of next Sunday's tempo has already started (10m@6:10), which will be roughly my TT time from December 2020. I struggled to get 8 done 2 weeks ago but hopefully the stepback week will benefit me. I'm sure it'll go ok, I like a challenge


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Lol lost toenail on left foot, blister on blister on blister on right big toe. I guess I'm a runner then :) Much to my daughters disgust though..


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    A very up and down week, with all routine thrown out the window. An imperfect storm where my kids were off school for the week but my OH was not, meant I was looking after them in the morning. Also had to endure several days of US audits in work late afternoon/evening so a few evening runs thrown in as well.

    Tues 4th - 7m easy, 8:29avg grass

    Wed 5th - 10x2' on/off, 5min rec, 10x90secs on/off, 10x1' on/off
    Guide on paces were the 2mins at roughly 10k pace, 90secs at 5k, 1min at 3k. So on paper this looks like an okish session right. A coaches warning about it made me examine more closely. 45 minutes at sub 10k pace - oh boy. Those fears were proved right

    It was the second day of audit work and only finished up at 7pm. Knew I would be out more than 2 hours so was going to be a late one. For the 2', advice was to run the first 5 at 5:45 pace and the next 5 slightly quicker. Knew they would be the worst so decided to take a tailwind for all of these. Only drawback is the rest of the reps would be against the wind. Got off to a good start 5:40, 5:49, 5:45, 5:37, 5:49, with the next 5 on target as well 5:38, 5:38, 5:44, 5:43, 5:39. 6 miles covered, with 5 minutes easy.

    Turned into the headwind and knew it was going to be a sufferfest on the way back. My legs were already tired from the 2'. I said I would try to hit 5:45 for the 90secs into the wind, anything lower was a bonus. I was able to hit most of them but my legs were killing me 5:49, 5:40, 5:38, 5:39, 5:45, 5:34, 5:44, 5:38, 5:38, 5:48. Didn't know what I had left in me for the minute reps.

    At this stage I didn't care about targets, just get them done. First few went ok but things went downhill then 5:37, 5:39, 5:09!! Pace slowly reduced for the next four 5:41, 5:46, 5:48, 6:00. Then my legs started to cramp up for the last 3. Probably should've finish there but was determined to finish out the session, albeit with half walked recoveries 5:53, 5:48, 5:54

    Got to admit that was the toughest session I've ever done and I was in bits that night and the next few days. Ran over 17 miles for this one, finishing after half 9 :eek:

    Thurs 6th - 7m recovery, 8:45avg grass. Evening run, legs in bits, tough to get through

    Fri 7th - 7m easy, 8:29avg Was meant to be a hill sprint session but decided against it during the warmup. Right leg was still quite stiff, calf was rock hard. Did ease out over the course of the run

    Sat 8th - 7m easy, 8:49avg grass. legs still tired as can be seen from the average pace. Was worried about tomorrow's session

    Sun 9th - 10m@6:10
    Woke up and at least my legs didn't hurt anymore. I was still quite nervous about the run as I knew they were tired and weather conditions weren't the best. Could feel the tiredness during the warmup but said I'd give it a shot and see how it goes. Can always cut it short if things went pearshaped.

    First mile had a wind assisted feel to it and came in at 6:04. In fact the first 5 miles would have favourable wind so wanted to have some time banked for the second half. Things settled for the next 2 miles with a strong side wind 6:10, 6:10. Next mile gave me my first taste of the headwind for half it 6:15 before the last tailwind assisted mile. Thought I could claw some time for that one but ended as a 6:10

    Halfway and I was feeling really tired but nothing was hurting. Next mile had me going over the Blackrock castle hill and it really stressed the legs going over that part. I felt like I was barely moving down the marina stretch and seriously debated whether to call it quits here or after mile 8 6:14 Turned down the railway line walkway into the wind and said to keep going till mile 8, thats a respectable distance. At this point the average pace was around 6:12 and I noticed that during the 7th mile that it wasn't dropping that much 6:14.

    With 3 miles to go, I decided to struggle through the whole ten miles . I was going ok and keeping the pace. Even though it came in at 6:24, the main reason was it ended on the uphill part of the footbridge. Second last mile and legs are burning, gone were the idealistic thoughts of clawing back the pace - instead just wanted to keep at the current 6:13 average 6:14. Last mile was torture. The long straight walkway seemed to go on forever, was glancing at the distance left on my watch every 100m till the beeps finally began the countdown 6:09

    It was a 6:13avg for the 10 miles. Considering the midweek session, how sore and stiff the legs were since then and the wind conditions, I was delighted with the run. This week was a tough one and must admit I didn't enjoy running from Thursday to Saturday. Glad things went well today and the body feels better now

    Weekly mileage - 59 miles
    Year to date - ???? (strava is down) should reach 1k next week

    On racing, yes racing news, thanks to a member of the novices group's whatsapp message, I was able to get an entry to the Thoroughbred HM in Kildare on the 20th June. I'm cautious about whether it'll go ahead or not but at least I have something to aim for in the short term.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    For what it's worth, on paper it looks like a hellish session. I'm not sure what you were reading!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    For what it's worth, on paper it looks like a hellish session. I'm not sure what you were reading!

    +1 brute of a session :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Its only when I'm reading that midweek session back that I can see what a tough one that is. 30 reps / 45 mins of hard running!! - Top marks.
    Getting the recovery in to run the 10miler in a 6.13 ave is more impressive - given the conditions too.

    You're in great shape.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Well it was bound to catch up with me at some point. After some recent big sessions, the legs finally pushed back on Wednesday

    Tues 11th - 7m easy 8:24avg grass
    Legs actually felt great for this one, after the rest day. A lot better than the previous week

    Wed 12th - 2x10'@5:55, 2x7'@5:50, 5x3'@5:45 (3min rec), 20'wu/cd
    All seemed normal, except knowing that the session was going to be seriously hard. 49 minutes of the longer tempo type rep will be a serious challenge.

    First 10' rep went to plan and didn't hit me too hard. Did the 3 min rec and turned into the wind to start the second one. As it was into the wind, I didn't mind the pace drifting out a bit but still had to put a big effort to keep it at 6min pace. I needed to walk the majority of the recovery and knew I was in trouble.

    Changed the planned route as needed to turn with the wind if I had any chance of completing the session. Surely the reps would get easier as the time decreases, i was over the worst!? The first mile of the 7 mins was on pace but my legs lost all sense of power/energy for the last minute. My form was super ragged. I needed to walk this recovery as well, and decided to call the session there and then.

    At the end of recovery I decided to give the last 7 min rep a shot, but not care how fast I go for it - just give it a bit of effort back to the car. Was a 6:15 rep. Changed the shoes and went for the cool down. It's a strange feeling, knowing that you definitely have nothing in the legs speed wise, but are still able for a cooldown. Still was a decent 34min workout so not a total loss

    Conversation with the coach that afternoon and it was decided that I would go into a week of easy running, to allow the legs to recovery properly and to absorb the recent big sessions. Those big sessions are here to stay but will be spaced out to allow me to recover from them

    Thurs 13th - 7m easy, 8:34avg grass. Legs were heavy but got through it
    Fri 14th - 7m easy, 8:25avg Went to Tramore Valley for a change
    Sat 15th - 7m easy, 8:32avg grass

    Sun 16th - 90' easy, 7:55avg
    Wore the VF 4% for easy as wanted to keep it around the 8' pace, so easy(ish). Went to the west of the city around the Straight road for a bit of a change. Must admit that I enjoyed this run, legs felt ok and the 90' flew by

    Weekly mileage - 51m
    Year to date - 1043m

    So passed the 1k marker for the year (ironically during the warmup of the failed session) so happy with that. Another 5 more days of easy running before i get back into the faster stuff. Was happy answering the questions put to me during the week for the A/Rtist in the Spotlight - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058184999 Will try to pick the next victim person next week


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    T, I hope you don't mind if I ask a question. Don't take it the wrong way because as you know from the training I'm doing at the moment I'm not afraid to go against conventional wisdom either :pac:

    I'm just wondering what the absolute adherence to paces is all about? Wearing special shoes, turning downwind, turning yourself inside out...Surely allowance must be made for weather conditions, inclines etc? For example if the intention of the 5:55 paces was to have you running at 10 mile pace thats great. But in a straight 10 mile race into the wind you would not be trying to run at 5:55 as you would realise it wasn't an appropriate pace. Is the effort not more mportant than the time on the watch?


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