World Snooker Championship 2021

walshb · 04-05-2021 8:44pm

Nobody should take any real notice of Ronnie. Probably the most fake and insincere contrived sports people out there. Attention seeking prat. Just loves the sound of his own voice.

Great great player. He is the Federer of snooker. Greatest natural talent ever.

For folks slating Selby’s 2/3 minutes shots..

How many shots exactly did he spend 2/3 minutes on?

A handful at most. His average shot time is quite similar to many others.

Selby on form is a top 5 ever player..

Over 18 frames match play him and Higgins are the two I’d bet the house on

No weaknesses...so solid everywhere..

gormdubhgorm · 04-05-2021 9:23pm

zuutroy wrote: »

Colin Murray's last event for Eurosport. That's a pity, he was good. I dislike the way BBC have to hype the life out of everything they show....'extraordinary match, unbelievable standard, best championship ever' etc.

That is exactly what Murray does!!! A walking cliche/pun machine (he seems to think it is gas) and he just not stop and one he has to link about 10 of them just in case you do not get the message. :mad:

Alright in small doses that is about it.

Rothko · 04-05-2021 9:28pm

walshb wrote: »

For folks slating Selby’s 2/3 minutes shots..

How many shots exactly did he spend 2/3 minutes on?

A handful at most. His average shot time is quite similar to many others.

I've heard people criticise Robertson for the same reason. There's the odd time where he will spend over a minute on an important or tricky shot and he gets called a grinder for it. Ridiculous.

gormdubhgorm · 04-05-2021 9:31pm

volono wrote: »

Mr Ronnie who has the mindset through Steve peters of just enjoying the process of playing etc

I believe in one of the interviews Ronnie gave after he was knocked out he revealed the truth of how he sees snooker and himself now a as a 'business'.

Reading between the lines when he said he would be crazy to stop altogether. He means it would be silly to give up handy money. He seems to plan to keep cashing in for another five years at least.

@1:40 - snooker is a business

Likes the lifestyle great relationship, with his sponsors

Joe_ Public · 04-05-2021 9:51pm

Rothko wrote: »

I've heard people criticise Robertson for the same reason. There's the odd time where he will spend over a minute on an important or tricky shot and he gets called a grinder for it. Ridiculous.

In fairness i think robertson himself has often addressed that issue and spoken of his desire to change. It's not that it makes him a grinder, which would frankly be a ludicrous charge, it just tends to upset the rhythm and flow he wants to bring to the game and promotes frustration. I dont think it's fundamentally different to the questions Murphy asks of himself and probably other flair players as well. There's a balance to be found to be a consistent world title challenger and, as we've seen, it can be incredibly difficult to find.

walshb · 04-05-2021 10:05pm

I think a very important area of the game that sometimes gets forgotten is intelligence. Snooker is such a high level game. Similar to chess. It’s genius.

It’s not all about cue skill and potting and break building.

There is also so much delicacy, nuance, subtlety, and real thinking intelligence and anticipation..

The way some people dismiss this and try to use it as a crutch to criticise shows an ignorance to the complete game.

In terms of snooker tactics and intelligence, Selby could be the best ever!!

And it’s why he was spot on about Ronnie last year and his smashing the balls around hoping for some luck. It was disrespectful. Ronnie’s reaction to being in trouble was sore loser attitude.

Ronnie did it because it was his get out of jail card had he not won. He couldn’t face losing by trying hard to play with real thought. So he thought, if I’m going to lose, it’s because I didn’t really care; when in fact he really does care..but he wants viewers to think he doesn’t..

Me: give me a real high level tactical frame of intrigue over any big break!!!

It’s just fascinating..

zuutroy · 04-05-2021 10:15pm

I can think of a lot of words for handing someone £100,000 and a place in the World Final on a plate, but disrespectful isn't one of them!

Ronnie has openly said he can't win those frames against Selby, and the only chance he has is to try and take a huge risk to open the game and hope not to stick one. In his mind, if he's going to lose the frame anyway it's better for his rhythm if it happens in 5 minutes instead of 20, along with the small chance that he might run good and not leave anything. It went wrong in frame 30 last year, but worked out in frame 33.

B2021M · 04-05-2021 10:16pm

zuutroy wrote: »

Colin Murray's last event for Eurosport. That's a pity, he was good. I dislike the way BBC have to hype the life out of everything they show....'extraordinary match, unbelievable standard, best championship ever' etc.

What?! Does anyone do hype more than Colin Murray?!

gormdubhgorm · 04-05-2021 10:21pm

walshb wrote: »

I think a very important area of the game that sometimes gets forgotten is intelligence. Snooker is such a high level game. Similar to chess. It’s genius.

It’s not all about cue skill and potting and break building.

There is also so much delicacy, nuance, subtlety, and real thinking intelligence and anticipation..

The way some people dismiss this and try to use it as a crutch to criticise shows an ignorance to the complete game.

In terms of snooker tactics and intelligence, Selby could be the best ever!!

And it’s why he was spot on about Ronnie last year and his smashing the balls around hoping for some luck. It was disrespectful. Ronnie’s reaction to being in trouble was sore loser attitude.

Ronnie did it because it was his get out of jail card had he not won. He couldn’t face losing by trying hard to play with real thought. So he thought, if I’m going to lose, it’s because I didn’t really care; when in fact he really does care..but he wants viewers to think he doesn’t..

Me: give me a real high level tactical frame of intrigue over any big break!!!

It’s just fascinating..

When I am watching I try and see what shot I would play to put a fella in trouble or get out of trouble. Invariably with the great tacticians or even the average ones - I do not see a lot of the shots until after it is played.

I cannot remember the frame but it was towards the end of the match Selby looked like he was in trouble. Had no obvious safety. I think it was Ken and Alan on the commentary together.

Ken immediately spotted a way to escape. Hitting the white off the black cushion barely glancing the red (which was near the green side black cushion).

Selby had to look at the shot for a few minutes. I was still wondering how you would manage Ken's shot.

McManus:

'He has not spotted your shot yet Ken...'

(Selby then eventually plays the shot Ken was on about - perfectly bringing the white back to baulk with the thinnest of snicks on the red, off the black cushion)

Doherty:

'Believe it or not a lot of pros would not have spotted that shot...'

zuutroy · 04-05-2021 10:24pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is exactly what Murray does!!! A walking cliche/pun machine (he seems to think it is gas) and he just not stop and one he has to link about 10 of them just in case you do not get the message. :mad:

Alright in small doses that is about it.

B2021M wrote: »

What?! Does anyone do hype more than Colin Murray?!

He is excitable alright, but I find that if a match is crap or someone is playing bad, Eurosport are far more likely to call it as it is. The combination of Hazel and Rob Walker hyperbole about everything does my head in.

someyoke · 04-05-2021 10:27pm

zuutroy wrote: »

I can think of a lot of words for handing someone £100,000 and a place in the World Final on a plate, but disrespectful isn't one of them!

Ronnie has openly said he can't win those frames against Selby, and the only chance he has is to try and take a huge risk to open the game and hope not to stick one. In his mind, if he's going to lose the frame anyway it's better for his rhythm if it happens in 5 minutes instead of 20, along with the small chance that he might run good and not leave anything. It went wrong in frame 30 last year, but worked out in frame 33.

Exactly, Ronnie said on a live Instagram feed with hendry during first lockdown he was going to intentionally open up games if his rhythm was slowed should be face Selby at crucible again. He'd rather take a quick hit than a slow death to be in a better place mentally going in to the rest of match.

Incredible to do say that, then situation presents itself at 2 down with 3 to play in world semi final and he does it. And proved his own theory correct. Selby was sour because he didn't get bogged down in game that suited his strengths. Had the temerity to try something incredibly risky with high tariff. That's genius in itself

gormdubhgorm · 04-05-2021 10:27pm

zuutroy wrote: »

He is excitable alright, but I find that if a match is crap or someone is playing bad, Eurosport are far more likely to call it as it is. The combination of Hazel and Rob Walker hyperbole about everything does my head in.

Rob Walker would be a fantastic wedding compere!

Asdfgh2020 · 04-05-2021 10:35pm

zuutroy wrote: »

He is excitable alright, but I find that if a match is crap or someone is playing bad, Eurosport are far more likely to call it as it is. The combination of Hazel and Rob Walker hyperbole about everything does my head in.

How many times this year was the ‘85 final mentioned during the BBC commentary and then you have John Virgo’s favourite line ‘and where is the cue ball going’ - with loads of intonation at the end...and of course the constant references to the ‘pressure’ of the crew-sha-bell’ and how unique it is as a venue.

volono · 04-05-2021 10:39pm

Well of course it's a business at some level for him but as always with Ronnie.....pinch of salt needed. If Williams was on the verge of packing it in before covid, I hardly think Ronnie is short of afew pounds.
You think Barry Hearn got involved with snooker to "save it", he did in his arse. When he first went to the circus tavern to watch darts he said " I can smell the money".
Tbf if youve played snooker it doesn't involve that much intelligence, more execution of chosen shot. 99 percent of the time I and others know exactly what they're going to play. Knowing and doing are 2 vastly different things though.
If you watched or do watch those Hendry podcasts from last year Ronnie explicitly says he'll refuse to get bogged down with Selby in his negative play
He says......right have that one Selby, rack them up please ref.
He knows what Selby's playing at and he said he'd refuse to play on his terms, for better or worse.
He said... I don't care because I know I can reel off 3/4 frames in 20/30 minutes if I'm in stroke etc etc
So no it wasn't disrespectful imo
I'm not sure what others where watching but if you don't think Selby was purposely taking excessively long at times during the match, fair enough.

zuutroy · 04-05-2021 10:39pm

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

How many times this year was the ‘85 final mentioned during the BBC commentary and then you have John Virgo’s favourite line ‘and where is the cue ball going’ - with loads of intonation at the end...!!

I'd say I did about an hour total on BBC this year (enough to hear Ken say 'wonderful' about 20 times). It's a shame because McManus and Hendry are good, and Phil Studd and Joe Johnson become a bit tiresome but the fact that it was on Eurosport non-stop meant I would just sit down on the couch and press 410 on the remote without thinking.

gormdubhgorm · 04-05-2021 10:42pm

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

How many times this year was the ‘85 final mentioned during the BBC commentary and then you have John Virgo’s favourite line ‘and where is the cue ball going’ - with loads of intonation at the end...and of course the constant references to the ‘pressure’ of the crew-sha-bell’ and how unique it is as a venue.

'Where's the cue ball going?' is almost like a snooker proverb at this stage.
Sort of like 'if tree falls in the wood and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?'

People would be disappointed if Virgo did not say it at this stage!
I would anyway.

I always want to know where the cue ball is going!

B2021M · 04-05-2021 10:48pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When I am watching I try and see what shot I would play to put a fella in trouble or get out of trouble. Invariably with the great tacticians or even the average ones - I do not see a lot of the shots until after it is played.

I cannot remember the frame but it was towards the end of the match Selby looked like he was in trouble. Had no obvious safety. I think it was Ken and Alan on the commentary together.

Ken immediately spotted a way to escape. Hitting the white off the black cushion barely glancing the red (which was near the green side black cushion).

Selby had to look at the shot for a few minutes. I was still wondering how you would manage Ken's shot.

McManus:

'He has not spotted your shot yet Ken...'

(Selby then eventually plays the shot Ken was on about - perfectly bringing the white back to baulk with the thinnest of snicks on the red, off the black cushion)

Doherty:

'Believe it or not a lot of pros would not have spotted that shot...'

Im sorry i missed that! I find Ken quite annoying on commentary but he was a very talented player and is a great reader of the table.

Strumms · 04-05-2021 10:54pm

zuutroy wrote: »

Colin Murray's last event for Eurosport. That's a pity, he was good. I dislike the way BBC have to hype the life out of everything they show....'extraordinary match, unbelievable standard, best championship ever' etc.

Pity..He comes across as a good dude... very big likability factor and very very good at what he does.. the odd sports anchor can be a bit stuffy and formulaic theses days but he’s an excellent anchor.

gormdubhgorm · 04-05-2021 10:56pm

B2021M wrote: »

Im sorry i missed that! I find Ken quite annoying on commentary but he was a very talented player and is a great reader of the table.

Yeah someone should have a word with him and tell him to stop trying to be John Virgo. Grand the occasional joke or whatever. But sometimes less is more and tactics were always Ken's bread and butter. He always saw the tactical shots.

I still remember a game himself and Davis played in Goffs. Went on forever none of them giving an inch. The audience was literally red eyed. The players worse. They could barely sign autographs after it. Felt like non stop tactics.

volono · 04-05-2021 11:28pm

Yeah he's to full of clichés for me Ken which actually makes he sound alot worse then imo. I enjoy Hendry and McManus , simply for the fact they don't feel the need to talk incessantly.
Was surprised Trump and Lisowski got some airtime between commentating and "snooker corner". I wonder was it anything to do with Trump's comments about appealing to a younger audience?

B2021M · 04-05-2021 11:30pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah someone should have a word with him and tell him to stop trying to be John Virgo. Grand the occasional joke or whatever. But sometimes less is more and tactics were always Ken's bread and butter. He always saw the tactical shots.

I still remember a game himself and Davis played in Goffs. Went on forever none of them giving an inch. The audience was literally red eyed. The players worse. They could barely sign autographs after it. Felt like non stop tactics.

I can imagine! What year would that have been (roughly even!)?

Joe_ Public · 05-05-2021 12:08am

B2021M wrote: »

I can imagine! What year would that have been (roughly even!)?

Was the 1996 irish masters. Incredible night of drama that, every frame was a war and dragged on to god knows what time it was in the end and we never even got to a decider. Ken had already beaten jimmy and hendry that week, was certain his name was on the trophy.

Asdfgh2020 · 05-05-2021 12:16am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

'Where's the cue ball going?' is almost like a snooker proverb at this stage.
Sort of like 'if tree falls in the wood and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?'

People would be disappointed if Virgo did not say it at this stage!
I would anyway.

I always want to know where the cue ball is going!

Someone has gone to the trouble of putting together half hour compilations on YouTube of Virgo uttering ‘and where is the cue ball going’....as you say it’s become a snooker ‘proverb’.....he and others such as Dennis Taylor also love to emphasise the ‘pressure’ at the ‘cue-sha-ball’

Mysterypunter · 05-05-2021 12:21am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rob Walker would be a fantastic wedding compere!

Would be a better circus clown

fran38 · 05-05-2021 1:09am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When I am watching I try and see what shot I would play to put a fella in trouble or get out of trouble. Invariably with the great tacticians or even the average ones - I do not see a lot of the shots until after it is played.

I cannot remember the frame but it was towards the end of the match Selby looked like he was in trouble. Had no obvious safety. I think it was Ken and Alan on the commentary together.

Ken immediately spotted a way to escape. Hitting the white off the black cushion barely glancing the red (which was near the green side black cushion).

Selby had to look at the shot for a few minutes. I was still wondering how you would manage Ken's shot.

McManus:

'He has not spotted your shot yet Ken...'

(Selby then eventually plays the shot Ken was on about - perfectly bringing the white back to baulk with the thinnest of snicks on the red, off the black cushion)

Doherty:

'Believe it or not a lot of pros would not have spotted that shot...'

AFAIK Ken was talking about playing the cue ball up behind that red and leaving nothing on. I'm open to correction though.

05-05-2021 2:51am

fran38 wrote: »

AFAIK Ken was talking about playing the cue ball up behind that red and leaving nothing on. I'm open to correction though.

I don't know who came up with that idea. I thought it was Angles... Open to correction though.... You seem to remember the commentary better than me :pac: Am pretty sure McManus mentioned the idea, or likely 'reiterated' Ken's coming off the cush

, and glancing the red before Selby played that shot..

That's what my memory is telling me anyway..

I do however, definitely remember Ken coming out with the "not many professionals etc.... " bit...

Maybe it was a team effort - Ken saying to lie behind the red off the cushion, and Angles coming up with the 'coup de gras' re the glancing return..

Was a disappointing result; but pretty much a foregone conclusion at 14-11. Fair play to Selby. He really put on a masterclass of Selbying

That pink though

walshb · 05-05-2021 6:32am

fran38 wrote: »

AFAIK Ken was talking about playing the cue ball up behind that red and leaving nothing on. I'm open to correction though.

I think he was on about exactly what Selby did.

Brian? · 05-05-2021 7:32am

walshb wrote: »

Nobody should take any real notice of Ronnie. Probably the most fake and insincere contrived sports people out there. Attention seeking prat. Just loves the sound of his own voice.

Great great player. He is the Federer of snooker. Greatest natural talent ever.

For folks slating Selby’s 2/3 minutes shots..

How many shots exactly did he spend 2/3 minutes on?

A handful at most. His average shot time is quite similar to many others.

Selby on form is a top 5 ever player..

Over 18 frames match play him and Higgins are the two I’d bet the house on

No weaknesses...so solid everywhere..

Selby is the Djokovic of snooker. To labour your analogy a bit. An unbelievably winner, grafts for every game.

I don’t enjoy watching that graft though as much as I enjoy watching someone like Ronnie, Murphy or Trump. Why can’t I say that?

flasher0030 · 05-05-2021 8:55am

Brian? wrote: »

Selby is the Djokovic of snooker. To labour your analogy a bit. An unbelievably winner, grafts for every game.

I don’t enjoy watching that graft though as much as I enjoy watching someone like Ronnie, Murphy or Trump. Why can’t I say that?

Nothing wrong with saying that. Everybody is entitled to choose what they prefer in life.
The difference is though that nobody is slating Ronnie, Murphy or Trump for their style of play. But people feel they have the right to condemn Selbys style of play because it doesn't warm to their agenda of how they feel snooker should be played.
I prefer the cautious tactical play than just straightout potting. That's my choice. But I respect players who are not so much into that and wouldn't slate them for how they play. Like many others, Jimmy White was my favorite in my youth.

StupidLikeAFox · 05-05-2021 10:05am

My favourite quote was when the camera panned to the crowd and Dennis Taylor remarked how great it was to see a full house again that "He'd never seen so many smiling faces" - they were all wearing masks??

World Snooker Championship 2021

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