Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 01:56PM

ReturnOfThe wrote: »

The levels of "mouth foaming" from the alcohol users in this thread lends more credence to the argument for MUP than any scientific study could.
Follow the science and what the health professionals are saying and what most of you deep down already know.
There is a reason we have a sugar tax, a carbon tax etc..gentle fiscal nudges away from practices which cost us more in the long run.
Hopefully only the first in a series of measures to be deployed in the years ahead to address our nation's dependancy on alcohol.

Yeah we have sugar tax because some fatties can't control their eating - not at all comparable to carbon tax (a now ringfenced fund being used to offset emmission based damage to the environment - Also note these are taxes)

Your jump that comments provides more evidence than a scientific study adds no credence to the credibility of your argument. Of course not having open public discourse on the issue has not helped us understand it all.

If you are anti drinking I guess thats a blinkered mindset you have - some of us are adults and can enjoy a drink safely while living healthy lives.

The major issues here is that the fiscal policy employed gives nothing to revenue - provides no positive enforcement or long term improvement - merely makes a few drinks more expensive for everyone.

And has been driven by a few people who's minds are warped by experiences specific to individuals in their lives. If i grew up with an alco in the family I may have a hardline view - but then when has a hardline view worked well?

KrustyUCC · 04-05-2021 01:57PM

ReturnOfThe wrote: »

The levels of "mouth foaming" from the alcohol users in this thread lends more credence to the argument for MUP than any scientific study could.
Follow the science and what the health professionals are saying and what most of you deep down already know.
There is a reason we have a sugar tax, a carbon tax etc..gentle fiscal nudges away from practices which cost us more in the long run.
Hopefully only the first in a series of measures to be deployed in the years ahead to address our nation's dependancy on alcohol.

Follow the science lol

The exact same bottle of whiskey will now be over €10 dearer over the border than here

Is the same bottle of whiskey is 45% more harmful in Dundalk than Newry?

You can get a bottle of scotch for €6.59 in Germany

Same bottle would be 235% dearer here under MUP

We're already the second dearest in Europe

This will just be more price gouging

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 01:58PM

dubrov wrote: »

Well we already have a long history already of increasing the price of alcohol in Ireland.

Has it been effective at improving our relationship with alcohol?

Maybe it's time to look at other angles (see advertising/sponsorship)

Yup the old under 3 quid Guinness - long gone and no difference to how many i'd drink.

Also budget tax increase at least allows any increase to be used to fund something positive - this is merely a hack to suit a few mental cases.

odyssey06 · 04-05-2021 02:08PM

We have the 2nd highest alcohol prices in the EU in this country.

During 2020, pubs, restaurants, events etc were shut down for considerable periods.
Alcohol consumption dropped 6%.

People were purchasing cheaper alcohol in supermarkets & off licences relative to what would be pub and restaurants and event prices.

The faulty logic of MUP suggests this should have increased.
It did not, which suggests alcohol is price inelastic and MUP will not impact consumption.

Amirani · 04-05-2021 02:23PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Where are the facts to back this up? There just seems to be a general assumption that this is the case whereas it appears not to be, and an increase in drug use is minimal.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-48853004

Drug deaths in Scotland have been rising for a number of years, but have accelerated in more recent years. The page you linked says exactly that to, did you not read it yourself?

PopePalpatine · 04-05-2021 02:31PM

ReturnOfThe wrote: »

The levels of "mouth foaming" from the alcohol users in this thread lends more credence to the argument for MUP than any scientific study could.
Follow the science and what the health professionals are saying and what most of you deep down already know.
There is a reason we have a sugar tax, a carbon tax etc..gentle fiscal nudges away from practices which cost us more in the long run.
Hopefully only the first in a series of measures to be deployed in the years ahead to address our nation's dependancy on alcohol.

From the looks of things we also need an MUP for boot polish.

04-05-2021 02:51PM

ecoli3136 wrote: »

TBH that's for cooking with.

Wine Snob Alert!

Just because its cheap does not mean it's sh1te.

tjhook · 04-05-2021 02:56PM

I think at this stage MUP is a done deal. The next question is how is its effectiveness going to be measured?

If alcohol consumption goes down in the coming year, does it prove MUP works?

If alcohol consumption goes up does it mean MUP works but more is needed?

A kind of "heads I win, tails you lose"?

KrustyUCC · 04-05-2021 03:02PM

Exactly if consumption goes up increase MUP it's not working

If consumption goes down increase MUP it's working

Either way MUP will increase particularly if the North eventually brings it in

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 03:09PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Exactly if consumption goes up increase MUP it's not working

If consumption goes down increase MUP it's working

Either way MUP will increase particularly if the North eventually brings it in

Did the change from 11.30pm to 10.00pm finish ever have an actual impact?

I do not think i have ever seen a study reviewing its impact - positive or negative.

This will be much the same - brought in - new norm - then the anti drink fruits can start inventing the next scheme.

If only they would relax with a drink or 2 they might find some pleasure in life.

Fandymo · 04-05-2021 03:14PM

tjhook wrote: »

I think at this stage MUP is a done deal. The next question is how is its effectiveness going to be measured?

If alcohol consumption goes down in the coming year, does it prove MUP works?

If alcohol consumption goes up does it mean MUP works but more is needed?

A kind of "heads I win, tails you lose"?

Its being going down steadily since the start of the new millenium. We're mid table in Europe for alcohol consumption, and falling.

ShamNNspace · 04-05-2021 03:14PM

^^^ the findings, statistics call them what you will, will be twisted and bent to fit whatever agenda suits, the average Joe and Mary will be ones who foot the bill in the end

KrustyUCC · 04-05-2021 03:16PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

Did the change from 11.30pm to 10.00pm finish ever have an actual impact?

I do not think i have ever seen a study reviewing its impact - positive or negative.

This will be much the same - brought in - new norm - then the anti drink fruits can start inventing the next scheme.

If only they would relax with a drink or 2 they might find some pleasure in life.

The only change it made was that people had to buy alcohol earlier in the day

I still think it's mad that you can't get a bottle of wine etc before lunch on a Sunday

Contrast that to Krakow, Barcelona, Madrid, Paris where you can go on a night out and get a few beers on the way home as well

VinLieger · 04-05-2021 03:18PM

tjhook wrote: »

I think at this stage MUP is a done deal. The next question is how is its effectiveness going to be measured?

If alcohol consumption goes down in the coming year, does it prove MUP works?

If alcohol consumption goes up does it mean MUP works but more is needed?

A kind of "heads I win, tails you lose"?

The thing those for MUP will never admit to is alcohol consumption has dropped to 2/3 of what it was in 2005 in a year over year decline so if that trend simply continues they will just falsely claim MUP was responsible.

Also the Irony is that alcohol consumption has decreased for the entire time they have claimed alcohol was getting cheaper.... try to get them to square that circle

PTH2009 · 04-05-2021 03:23PM

It's all a load of bollocks. Basically making targets of Alcoholics and students 'lads because ye can't behave yourselves on cheap drink were putting the price up, that will show you'

Government will make a killing with the tax from this

VinLieger · 04-05-2021 03:25PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Government will make a killing with the tax from this

How is this misinformation still going around? There will be a neglible increase in taxes from this as its a minimum price cap not a tax hike, the vast vast majority of the new hiked prices will go to the shops and the alcohol producers.

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 03:28PM

VinLieger wrote: »

How is this misinformation still going around? There will be a neglible increase in taxes from this as its a minimum price cap not a tax hike, the vast vast majority of the new hiked prices will go to the shops and therefore the alcohol producers.

I'd say its more assumption than misinformation - assumed that any increase will mean monies generated are used to fight the issues.

But unlike sugar and carbon taxes this one doesn't equate as you rightly point out.

Personally that makes less sense to me - all we are doing is damaging market competition and impacting the everyday person who is not an alco.

odyssey06 · 04-05-2021 03:28PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

It's all a load of bollocks. Basically making targets of Alcoholics and students 'lads because ye can't behave yourselves on cheap drink were putting the price up, that will show you'
Government will make a killing with the tax from this

The only Government that'll be making a killing from it will be Her Majesty's Government, unless Stormont enacts the same folly.

And they came for the alcoholics and the students first... my concern is that eventually they will ratchet up MUP so the prices are the same as pubs across the board.

Macy0161 · 04-05-2021 03:29PM

Yes, they could at least argue justification if it was going to help those with issues.

VinLieger · 04-05-2021 03:42PM

Macy0161 wrote: »

Yes, they could at least argue justification if it was going to help those with issues.

If the entirety of the new price increase was a ring fenced tax hike going towards treatment etc I literally wouldn't have a problem and tbh would welcome it.

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 03:51PM

VinLieger wrote: »

If the entirety of the new price increase was a ring fenced tax hike going towards treatment etc I literally wouldn't have a problem and tbh would welcome it.

Ditto to that - Never love tax increases but when they are put aside to get a job done i can get behind them.

This is pure nonsense though

buried · 04-05-2021 04:04PM

VinLieger wrote: »

If the entirety of the new price increase was a ring fenced tax hike going towards treatment etc I literally wouldn't have a problem and tbh would welcome it.

This is exactly it. A easy cash grab from some of the most vulnerable in society. All in order to keep the greasy gold plated pensions for another section of our society, a section who if they had to survive in a actual functional and productive real economy, would be dead in a ditch long ago.

ThunbergsAreGo · 04-05-2021 04:06PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

Did the change from 11.30pm to 10.00pm finish ever have an actual impact?

I do not think i have ever seen a study reviewing its impact - positive or negative.

This will be much the same - brought in - new norm - then the anti drink fruits can start inventing the next scheme.

If only they would relax with a drink or 2 they might find some pleasure in life.

I got a nagin for the train instead of after, only real change...

dirkmeister · 04-05-2021 04:14PM

Rte.ie said there was “only” a 6.6% in consumption in their article this morning.

Since when is it their job to decide what’s a good or bad rate of consumption?!?

odyssey06 · 04-05-2021 04:26PM

The Sunday Independent had an opinion piece challenging the assumptions behind MUP (paywalled alas!)

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/minimum-unit-pricing-of-alcohol-may-well-prove-acostly-solution-40378369.html

Tony EH · 04-05-2021 04:48PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

Who is really driving all this - I mean there must be a group of lunatics somewhere behind the scenes, those sad sorry types that have few to no friends and hate anything anyone does that may constitute having fun.

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Alcohol Action Ireland

The "Independent" (almost entirely government funded) charity

I don't believe that it's that simple.

ThunbergsAreGo · 04-05-2021 05:21PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't believe that it's that simple.

So what is it?

04-05-2021 05:39PM

there's a definite cultural problem in Ireland with alcohol that could definitely do with changing.

an over-reliance culturally on it due to a general lack of imagination and pure laziness in my opinion and cultural acceptance of excessive drinking and indeed encouragement of it.

this is even evident in the cultural norms present where being excessively drunk is "great craic" and hangovers are even celebrated.

the Irish vintners association would have you believe that the only fun to be had in Ireland was in a pub when in fact most of them are very uncomfortable and crappy places which you could only put up with if you're at least half-pissed.

one of the few good things to come out of the pandemic might be an adjustment of the Irish relationship with the pub

but going at the problem by increasing the off-trade price when it's already only behind Finland in the EU is not a good solution

it's a classic Irish type of solution though.

p.s. the two poll options are complete cack

Mecrab · 04-05-2021 05:39PM

Will I still be able to get 4 cans of pratsky for a 5er?

KrustyUCC · 04-05-2021 05:41PM

1st January 2022 apparently for MUP

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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