Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

04-05-2021 11:41AM

SteM wrote: »

Anyone that thinks that MUP and tax increases on alcohol won't be happening up north is crazy. Britain has the same economic issues coming down the pike that we do and probably worse when the true cost of Brexit is seen. Get your cheap drink up there while you can, it won't stay cheap imo.

Except the UK is always less aggressive with taxes than Ireland is.

For example, Ireland and the UK introduced the plastic bag levy around the same time in 2002. In Ireland the levy was 15 cent. In the UK it was 5p. Ireland increased it to 22 cent in 2007. Last year, the UK doubled their levy to 10p.

Yes, there will be MUP and duty increases up north, but it will still be much cheaper to buy there than it is here.

odyssey06 · 04-05-2021 11:41AM

tjhook wrote: »

Even as a "gift set"? I think you can already see gift sets that are the same price or cheaper than the alcohol product alone. Maybe it's different if it's packaged as a single product, rather than separate items from a shelf?

Tullamore Dew €31
Same bottle with glasses, €27.50

Hmm you couldnt bring the price below MUP but if you packaged it up with sth else it might be ok.

You would need mixers though ppl would get fed up with glasses soon enough.

minitrue · 04-05-2021 11:43AM

FileNotFound wrote: »

One Question though, this price increase - is it basically just giving shops and companies more money - or is there a taxation increase to force this? In other words are the tax payer in a lose lose entirely or at least will there be more money for public expenditure? Surely this would be daft if all the extra cost just goes to drink companies ans shops selling... Punish the sale of alcohol by potentially increasing the profits is a bit daft no?

There is no change in taxation, it is giving the companies more money, it is daft.

Thelonious Monk · 04-05-2021 11:45AM

Irish Times are championing the measures here, ffs

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-s-the-story-with-plans-for-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol-1.4554957

04-05-2021 11:46AM

tjhook wrote: »

Even as a "gift set"? I think you can already see gift sets that are the same price or cheaper than the alcohol product alone. Maybe it's different if it's packaged as a single product, rather than separate items from a shelf?

Tullamore Dew €31
Same bottle with glasses, €27.50

Thats not a case of the gift set being cheaper, more a case of the regular bottle being more expensive. 31 euros for Tullamore Dew is shocking. Its 25 in SuperValu. About 22 in Tesco.

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 11:47AM

minitrue wrote: »

There is no change in taxation, it is giving the companies more money, it is daft.

That really is ludicrous altogether.

04-05-2021 11:50AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Irish Times are championing the measures here, ffs

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-s-the-story-with-plans-for-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol-1.4554957

"Minister for Health to bring memo to Cabinet on Tuesday detailing proposals"

Has he nothing else to be focussing on? There was something mentioned 'briefly' in the news about a virus? Maybe he should be looking into that?

sully123 · 04-05-2021 11:51AM

If I drank 1 can of beer a day (hardly a problem drinker) it would cost about 21 quid more per month. For many people that would mean having to go without something else.
Do TDs on 98k basic really understand?

ohnonotgmail · 04-05-2021 11:51AM

FileNotFound wrote: »

You are right, the ultimate irony of these kinds of decisions is they mostly hit those people who only buy on occasion as its not worth the effort getting around them.
The same people they are not really intended for.
Still amazed such changes are coming in with so little debate or opposition. Where the studies supporting this? Compared to studies showing negative impacts etc.
Mind you my opposition is more based on point of principle rather than anything else.

One Question though, this price increase - is it basically just giving shops and companies more money - or is there a taxation increase to force this? In other words are the tax payer in a lose lose entirely or at least will there be more money for public expenditure? Surely this would be daft if all the extra cost just goes to drink companies ans shops selling... Punish the sale of alcohol by potentially increasing the profits is a bit daft no?

apart from a tiny increase in the VAT collected the extra cost goes to the distributor/retailer.

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 11:52AM

Deleted User wrote: »

"Minister for Health to bring memo to Cabinet on Tuesday detailing proposals"

Has he nothing else to be focussing on? There was something mentioned 'briefly' in the news about a virus? Maybe he should be looking into that?

That useless baldy headed fella hasn't a clue what he is doing.

He is looking for his MM smoking ban moment - something to claim as his when he gets dumped out forever in another year or so.

KungPao · 04-05-2021 11:59AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Irish Times are championing the measures here, ffs

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-s-the-story-with-plans-for-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol-1.4554957

“It all seems very sensible” to them. Unbelievable.

No mention of the poor being affected, because **** them. Only heavy drinkers and young people who seek ‘cheap’ drink.

Some neck.

04-05-2021 12:11PM

Segment on the news just now saying Cannabis is much more dangerous than previously thought, especially for younger brains.

Everyone ignoring the fact MUP makes weed more attractive.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

ThunbergsAreGo · 04-05-2021 12:30PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

That useless baldy headed fella hasn't a clue what he is doing.

He is looking for his MM smoking ban moment - something to claim as his when he gets dumped out forever in another year or so.

I'm too young to remember, what was the reaction to the smoking ban

dubrov · 04-05-2021 12:36PM

That Irish times article is pure trash. It presents some poorly thought out assumptions as fact. No attempt is made at any deeper analysis at all.

FileNotFound · 04-05-2021 12:36PM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I'm too young to remember, what was the reaction to the smoking ban

Was a contentious one but it was well discussed and the justifications for it were presented for everyone to see.

I supported the move as a smoker at the time. The impact on non smokers in pubs was undeniable so we chose to hit the few to save the many.

This time we hit the many to compensate the few.

VinLieger · 04-05-2021 12:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Segment on the news just now saying Cannabis is much more dangerous than previously thought, especially for younger brains.

Everyone ignoring the fact MUP makes weed more attractive.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

What happened in Scotland after MUP was introduced? Drug use skyrocketed across the board.

screamer · 04-05-2021 12:54PM

VinLieger wrote: »

What happened in Scotland after MUP was introduced? Drug use skyrocketed across the board.

Of course that’ll happen. Drugs definitely the substance of choice amongst the younger generation, and far more damaging and toxic. I’d much rather my kids have a few drinks than take drugs, but anyways. Point of diminishing returns will be hit quickly with alcohol and the drug dealers will be delighted with the boost in sales.

04-05-2021 12:56PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

VinLieger wrote: »

What happened in Scotland after MUP was introduced? Drug use skyrocketed across the board.

All those low-volume consumers of alcohol just decided they weren't going to put up with this anti-competitive intervention in the free-market and went mad on the smack did they?

KungPao · 04-05-2021 12:59PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

Was a contentious one but it was well discussed and the justifications for it were presented for everyone to see.

I supported the move as a smoker at the time. The impact on non smokers in pubs was undeniable so we chose to hit the few to save the many.

This time we hit the many to compensate the few.

I smoked then too. Sure it was the end of an era and an adjustment, but we all knew it made sense and long before then, smoking was banned from planes, buses, shopping centres, inside work places (bar the staff room) so it was a logical progression. Martin gets way too much credit for it.

But I don’t believe now as drinker, I’ll happily pay more for a can of beer and think ‘jeez, what were we thinking ‘only’ paying €1.30 for a can of Karpackie?’

And Paddy the gambler who also likes a drink will still be getting plastered anyway, he won’t care. Just his kids can forget about getting FIFA 22 for their birthdays. Paddy needs his medicine.

VinLieger · 04-05-2021 12:59PM

ecoli3136 wrote: »

All those low-volume consumers of alcohol just decided they weren't going to put up with this anti-competitive intervention in the free-market and went mad on the smack did they?

Ohh look a straw man, this thread hasn't had one of them in a while.

tjhook · 04-05-2021 01:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats not a case of the gift set being cheaper, more a case of the regular bottle being more expensive. 31 euros for Tullamore Dew is shocking. Its 25 in SuperValu. About 22 in Tesco.

Yes, I agree.

But it does appear that a "gift set" has no legal requirement to be more (or as) expensive than the alcoholic product alone. Which opens the possibility that an imaginative brand could package a €18 bottle of gin with something like glasses or mixer at the MUP of €22. Thus maintaining a gap between basic and premium brands, and minimising the loss to the consumer.

Whether or not they have any motivation to do so is another question... I won't hold my breath but you never know.

VinLieger · 04-05-2021 01:02PM

KungPao wrote: »

And Paddy the gambler who also likes a drink will still be getting plastered anyway, he won’t care. Just his kids can forget about getting FIFA 22 for their birthdays. Paddy needs his medicine.

More like the kids can get used to having a chipper 7 nights a week instead of 2-3... ohh whats that suddenly the diabetes and obesity epidemic in our children has gotten worse? Well at least they cant walk down the alcohol aisle in a supermarket cus that would lead to real problems......

ShamNNspace · 04-05-2021 01:04PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Segment on the news just now saying Cannabis is much more dangerous than previously thought, especially for younger brains.

Everyone ignoring the fact MUP makes weed more attractive.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

RTE where the(ir) truth matters

04-05-2021 01:05PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohh look a straw man, this thread hasn't had one of them in a while.

Pfff.

You're the one attempting to link MUP with "skyrocketing" drug use (in Scotland).

Hey. Look. I don't really care about this change so I'm going to leave the thread to people who do. Good luck with it.

jimmycrackcorm · 04-05-2021 01:07PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Deleted User wrote: »

Which will make the local drug dealer look like better value as a result. It's really as though the government haven't considered that aspect of it at all. Madness. :rolleyes:

ecoli3136 wrote: »

No you're right the only choices are cheaper drink or everyone will take illegal drugs instead.

VinLieger wrote: »

What happened in Scotland after MUP was introduced? Drug use skyrocketed across the board.

Where are the facts to back this up? There just seems to be a general assumption that this is the case whereas it appears not to be, and an increase in drug use is minimal.

Mr. teddywinkles · 04-05-2021 01:19PM

Drug use will be cheaper. Good on yis. Pack of thickos running the gaff.

04-05-2021 01:32PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Where are the facts to back this up?

It's common sense. If Joe Soap has access to alcohol and drugs, and suddenly the price of one of those products increases, the alternative looks a lot more appealing.

Personally, I don't really drink (about a can a month if you averaged it out across a year) and I've never touched drugs in any form. However, I can still see the obvious transition from one to the other that many people will make. Especially those in their teens who can now get off their tits for a fraction of the price than alcohol.

Drug use is widely accepted in Irish society, despite the damage it does. People will turn to it fairly fast, in my opinion.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-05-2021 01:39PM

KungPao wrote: »

“It all seems very sensible” to them. Unbelievable.

No mention of the poor being affected, because **** them. Only heavy drinkers and young people who seek ‘cheap’ drink.

Some neck.

TBH if you are reading the Irish Times you probably won't be affected by MUP in the same that people who are aren't at that end of the socio-economic scale.

04-05-2021 01:47PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

The levels of "mouth foaming" from the alcohol users in this thread lends more credence to the argument for MUP than any scientific study could.
Follow the science and what the health professionals are saying and what most of you deep down already know.
There is a reason we have a sugar tax, a carbon tax etc..gentle fiscal nudges away from practices which cost us more in the long run.
Hopefully only the first in a series of measures to be deployed in the years ahead to address our nation's dependancy on alcohol.

dubrov · 04-05-2021 01:54PM

Well we have a long history already of increasing the price of alcohol in Ireland.

Has it been effective at improving our relationship with alcohol?

Maybe it's time to look at other angles (see advertising/sponsorship)

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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