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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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    #5312
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    FileNotFound wrote: »
    Thats sad - so in a year this random bunch of lunatics under this Gov will have:

    ...

    And their sh1t little charity/lobby group is funded by the tax payer getting screwed by this.

    Have you worked out what the bottom line impact is on you financially based on typical consumption?

    People should do that and if it's a lot of money they should drink less because the only way this is going to have a major financial impact on you is if you consume alcohol to excess very regularly in a way that is damaging to your health.


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    #5313
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    Have you worked out what the bottom line impact is on you financially based on typical consumption?

    People should do that and if it's a lot of money they should drink less because the only way this is going to have a major financial impact on you is if you consume alcohol to excess very regularly in a way that is damaging to your health.

    Why does something have to have a major financial impact before you can object?
    Why should you have to pay more whether that's €10 a year or €100 a year or €1000 a year?
    It's death by a thousand slashes in this country with rent seekers with politician's ears and privileged positions all grabbing undeserved shares of the public's cash.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #5314
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    Have you worked out what the bottom line impact is on you financially based on typical consumption?

    People should do that and if it's a lot of money they should drink less because the only way this is going to have a major financial impact on you is if you consume alcohol to excess very regularly in a way that is damaging to your health.

    anybody who drinks at home will be worse off financially. raising the floor price for alcohol will raise the price for all alcohol.


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    #5315
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why does something have to have a major financial impact before you can object?
    Why should you have to pay more whether that's €10 a year or €100 a year or €1000 a year?
    It's death by a thousand slashes in this country with rent seekers all grabbing undeserved shares of the public's cash.

    You can object for any reason.

    I'm just pointing out that if this change causes a major financial impact on your bottom line you have other bigger problems.

    Like I said, I don't support this as a control mechanism.

    I think problem drinkers should be given educational and public health support.


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    #5316
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    Have you worked out what the bottom line impact is on you financially based on typical consumption?

    People should do that and if it's a lot of money they should drink less because the only way this is going to have a major financial impact on you is if you consume alcohol to excess very regularly in a way that is damaging to your health.

    Its will be a low to no impact initially.

    However I disagree with it in principle. This is a major change to a competition driven market and the discussion forum seems to be closed to a few Gov personnel and some hard luck had a drunk in the family types.

    I'd rather see the euro saver menu banned than this as it would have a greater impact on the nations health.

    The number of changes in a short space of time is quite startling no?


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    #5317
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    We should just swallow our pride and rejoin the UK. We’re not fit to rule ourselves!


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    #5318
    tjhook
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭tjhook


    Perhaps there's scope for retailers and producers to be inventive?

    E.g. where a certain bottle of Gin may have costed €18 and now must cost at least €22, perhaps they could include mixer with it? So the bottle plus mixer (perhaps in a "presentation" box) comes to €22? A bit like how today you sometimes get free glasses when buying certain beers.

    It would adhere to the spirit of the law in that alcohol still can't be bought "cheaply" (whatever that means in an Irish context), maintains a buffer between basic and premium brands, and minimises the loss incurred by the consumer.


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    #5319
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    FileNotFound wrote: »
    Its will be a low to no impact initially.

    However I disagree with it in principle. This is a major change to a competition driven market and the discussion forum seems to be closed to a few Gov personnel and some hard luck had a drunk in the family types.

    I'd rather see the euro saver menu banned than this as it would have a greater impact on the nations health.

    The number of changes in a short space of time is quite startling no?

    Not worth getting worked up over.

    I don't think the people getting worked up over it are doing so because they're free-market hawks.


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    #5320
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    Have you worked out what the bottom line impact is on you financially based on typical consumption?

    People should do that and if it's a lot of money they should drink less because the only way this is going to have a major financial impact on you is if you consume alcohol to excess very regularly in a way that is damaging to your health.
    It's not about the money it's about the way they are going about it, nanny state treating us like little hamsters in a hamster cage turning the big wheel, if them little fecckers drink more than what's good for them we will just rise the price on them ha ha by the pricks on 100 I a year or the ex alcoholics who are now cleaner than clean and wants to go around waving the big stick fuuuck the lot of them I say.


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    #5321
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Those deals are already gone since January.
    Cheapest bottle of wine will now be €7.50 and that's for a 12% wine which is rare to see these days.

    TBH that's for cooking with.


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    #5322
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    tjhook wrote: »
    Perhaps there's scope for retailers and producers to be inventive?
    E.g. where a certain bottle of Gin may have costed €18 and now must cost at least €22, perhaps they could include mixer with it? So the bottle plus mixer (perhaps in a "presentation" box) comes to €22? A bit like how today you sometimes get free glasses when buying certain beers.
    It would adhere to the spirit of the law in that alcohol still can't be bought "cheaply" (whatever that means in an Irish context), maintains a buffer between basic and premium brands, and minimises the loss incurred by the consumer.

    Fraid not - all such loopholes were closed back in January as you are unable to get another product free\discounted on purchase of alcohol. It's the reason you no longer earn loyalty points in supermarkets when you purchase alcohol.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #5323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    anybody who drinks at home will be worse off financially. raising the floor price for alcohol will raise the price for all alcohol.


    Which will make the local drug dealer look like better value as a result. It's really as though the government haven't considered that aspect of it at all. Madness. :rolleyes:


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    #5324
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Which will make the local drug dealer look like better value as a result. It's really as though the government haven't considered that aspect of it at all. Madness. :rolleyes:

    People shouldn't be doing drugs because there's already laws against it.
    So nobody should be doing it.
    So for the people who think like that in their ivory towers such people aren't their problem because they don't really exist.
    A large number of the people who push for these laws are that clueless.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #5325
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,590 ✭✭✭SteM


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    Anyone that thinks that MUP and tax increases on alcohol won't be happening up north is crazy. Britain has the same economic issues coming down the pike that we do and probably worse when the true cost of Brexit is seen. Get your cheap drink up there while you can, it won't stay cheap imo.


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    #5326
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    People shouldn't be doing drugs because there's already laws against it.
    So nobody should be doing it.
    So for the people who think like that in their ivory towers such people aren't their problem because they don't really exist.
    A large number of the people who push for these laws are that clueless.

    No you're right the only choices are cheaper drink or everyone will take illegal drugs instead.


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    #5327
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    Not worth getting worked up over.

    I don't think the people getting worked up over it are doing so because they're free-market hawks.

    I'd say you are wrong in that thought process.

    Most people I know who are anti these changes are low volume drinkers who just likes being able to use a voucher to get a free bottle of wine (was somehow nicer than a free bottle of olive oil).

    It really is the fact that this is being driven from a very narrow minded minority that have chips on their shoulders due to unfortunate life experiences, they are looking to blame an industry for something that happened due a persons own decisions.


    This is just very typical of the new way of things, fat people eat too much so we have a sugar tax I have to pay now (once again minor financial impact), some people drink too much so no we have minimum alcohol pricing.

    Always the every day person paying for someone else failings


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    #5328
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    SteM wrote: »
    Anyone that thinks that MUP and tax increases on alcohol won't be happening up north is crazy. Britain the same economic issues coming down the pike that we do and probably worse when the true cost of Brexit is seen. Get your cheap drink up there while you can, it won't stay cheap imo.

    MUP doesn't bring in revenue to Her Majesty's Exchequer.
    Shoppers from the Republic coming back with full boots from Sainsburys in the North will.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #5329
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    SteM wrote: »
    Anyone that thinks that MUP and tax increases on alcohol won't be happening up north is crazy. Britain the same economic issues coming down the pike that we do and probably worse when the true cost of Brexit is seen. Get your cheap drink up there while you can, it won't stay cheap imo.

    I think the Assembly will be collapsed soon and the UK Gov won't be rushing to piss off the average voter for a bit.

    Should be grand for the foreseeable future


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    #5330
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    No you're right the only choices are cheaper drink or everyone will take illegal drugs instead.

    Well there's a strawman if ever there was one.

    Scotland brought in MUP and has seen an increase in drug use.
    They aren't the only choices but some people seem to be making that choice.

    Other people will make the choice to smuggle booze down from the North or further afield; or go up themselves and come back down with a full boot.

    Were only choices people faced when cigarette taxes were jacked up to stop smoking or pay the tax?
    Then how do you account for how much blackmarket cigarettes are sold in the Republic?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #5331
    minitrue
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭minitrue


    Increasing the price is a nanny-state measure with an impact similar to the problems caused by regressive taxation but ultimately that would just irk me if it was done by taxation rather than have me disgusted.

    Increasing the price by forcing some to take increased profits is simply political corruption in my book.


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    #5332
    tjhook
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭tjhook


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Fraid not - all such loopholes were closed back in January as you are unable to get another product free\discounted on purchase of alcohol. It's the reason you no longer earn loyalty points in supermarkets when you purchase alcohol.

    Even as a "gift set"? I think you can already see gift sets that are the same price or cheaper than the alcohol product alone. Maybe it's different if it's packaged as a single product, rather than separate items from a shelf?

    Tullamore Dew €31
    Same bottle with glasses, €27.50


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    #5333
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Well there's a strawman if ever there was one.

    Scotland brought in MUP and has seen an increase in drug use.
    They aren't the only choices but some people seem to be making that choice.

    Other people will make the choice to smuggle booze down from the North or further afield; or go up themselves and come back down with a full boot.

    Were only choices people faced when cigarette taxes were jacked up to stop smoking or pay the tax?
    Then how do you account for how much blackmarket cigarettes are sold in the Republic?


    You are right, the ultimate irony of these kinds of decisions is they mostly hit those people who only buy on occasion as its not worth the effort getting around them.
    The same people they are not really intended for.
    Still amazed such changes are coming in with so little debate or opposition. Where the studies supporting this? Compared to studies showing negative impacts etc.
    Mind you my opposition is more based on point of principle rather than anything else.


    One Question though, this price increase - is it basically just giving shops and companies more money - or is there a taxation increase to force this? In other words are the tax payer in a lose lose entirely or at least will there be more money for public expenditure? Surely this would be daft if all the extra cost just goes to drink companies ans shops selling... Punish the sale of alcohol by potentially increasing the profits is a bit daft no?


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    #5334
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SteM wrote: »
    Anyone that thinks that MUP and tax increases on alcohol won't be happening up north is crazy. Britain has the same economic issues coming down the pike that we do and probably worse when the true cost of Brexit is seen. Get your cheap drink up there while you can, it won't stay cheap imo.

    Except the UK is always less aggressive with taxes than Ireland is.

    For example, Ireland and the UK introduced the plastic bag levy around the same time in 2002. In Ireland the levy was 15 cent. In the UK it was 5p. Ireland increased it to 22 cent in 2007. Last year, the UK doubled their levy to 10p.

    Yes, there will be MUP and duty increases up north, but it will still be much cheaper to buy there than it is here.


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    #5335
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    tjhook wrote: »
    Even as a "gift set"? I think you can already see gift sets that are the same price or cheaper than the alcohol product alone. Maybe it's different if it's packaged as a single product, rather than separate items from a shelf?

    Tullamore Dew €31
    Same bottle with glasses, €27.50

    Hmm you couldnt bring the price below MUP but if you packaged it up with sth else it might be ok.

    You would need mixers though ppl would get fed up with glasses soon enough.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #5336
    minitrue
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭minitrue


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    One Question though, this price increase - is it basically just giving shops and companies more money - or is there a taxation increase to force this? In other words are the tax payer in a lose lose entirely or at least will there be more money for public expenditure? Surely this would be daft if all the extra cost just goes to drink companies ans shops selling... Punish the sale of alcohol by potentially increasing the profits is a bit daft no?
    There is no change in taxation, it is giving the companies more money, it is daft.


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    #5337
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Irish Times are championing the measures here, ffs

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-s-the-story-with-plans-for-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol-1.4554957


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    #5338
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tjhook wrote: »
    Even as a "gift set"? I think you can already see gift sets that are the same price or cheaper than the alcohol product alone. Maybe it's different if it's packaged as a single product, rather than separate items from a shelf?

    Tullamore Dew €31
    Same bottle with glasses, €27.50

    Thats not a case of the gift set being cheaper, more a case of the regular bottle being more expensive. 31 euros for Tullamore Dew is shocking. Its 25 in SuperValu. About 22 in Tesco.


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    #5339
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    minitrue wrote: »
    There is no change in taxation, it is giving the companies more money, it is daft.

    That really is ludicrous altogether.


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    #5340
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Irish Times are championing the measures here, ffs

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-s-the-story-with-plans-for-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol-1.4554957

    "Minister for Health to bring memo to Cabinet on Tuesday detailing proposals"

    Has he nothing else to be focussing on? There was something mentioned 'briefly' in the news about a virus? Maybe he should be looking into that?


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    #5341
    sully123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭sully123


    If I drank 1 can of beer a day (hardly a problem drinker) it would cost about 21 quid more per month. For many people that would mean having to go without something else.
    Do TDs on 98k basic really understand?


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