Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

PTH2009 · 03-05-2021 04:09PM

giveitholly wrote: »

So no source or link,just you as usual spouting nonsense, of course if cases spiral out of control they will slow down the lifting of restrictions,that is hardly hard to comprehend.And if that did happen you would prob be happy because you could come on here to whinge and complain

This is a discussion fourm

I don't want any extension of any restrictions

dominatinMC · 03-05-2021 04:09PM

Gortanna wrote: »

In certain countries. Why would the Irish Government allow hospitals to be overrun every year when they can use lockdown?

You say this as if it a casual throwaway gesture. Do you actually realise the social and economic cost of lockdowns? For one thing, where are the government going to get the money for these lockdowns, the coffers are empty. Secondly, as if the public will idly stand by for a lockdown for the flu. Your argument is ridiculous, but you seem to be blinded by conviction in your conspiracy theory.

dominatinMC · 03-05-2021 04:11PM

Gortanna wrote: »

Prudent planning would be to plan to recruit them if necessary, not recruit them and put them to work until 2022, and possibly until 2023.

The UK Government extended the Coronavirus Act until October. Matt Hancock claimed it was necessary to extend the Act until October so that the furlough scheme could continue. Mark Harper, who chairs the Covid Recovery Group, said that simply wasn't true: “The basis for the financial support packages are supported by the parts of the Coronavirus Act that automatically remain in force. No matter how parliament votes this week on the temporary provisions of the Coronavirus Act, the financial support packages will remain in place regardless.”: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/23/tory-mps-hit-out-at-hancock-over-covid-powers-extension

The extension of the Act until October may suggest that a winter lockdown is going to happen.

Again - "may suggest". Not exactly conclusive evidence

03-05-2021 04:18PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

You say this as if it a casual throwaway gesture. Do you actually realise the social and economic cost of lockdowns? For one thing, where are the government going to get the money for these lockdowns, the coffers are empty. Secondly, as if the public will idly stand by for a lockdown for the flu. Your argument is ridiculous, but you seem to be blinded by conviction in your conspiracy theory.

Do the Government? It has been the response for over a year at this stage. No gyms, no sporting activities for people to enjoy. Mental health is on the floor for many.

But what evidence is there to suggest they wouldn't if RTÉ started reporting flu case numbers? Why wouldn't people be calling for a lockdown over hundreds of flu cases, or if the media reported about hospitals being overrun? I don't think it's a ridiculous argument, or a conspiracy theory. It may be unlikely, but it's a very real possibility.

03-05-2021 04:19PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Again - "may suggest". Not exactly conclusive evidence

I can't say it definitely suggests it, but it points to a future lockdown. If Mark Harper is right then there was no need to extend it.

dominatinMC · 03-05-2021 04:26PM

Gortanna wrote: »

Do the Government? It has been the response for over a year at this stage. No gyms, no sporting activities for people to enjoy. Mental health is on the floor for many.

Ah, yes they do. Look at the statements from Pascal Donoghue this week, the money is gone, they know it, and need to open up to get the economy going again to actually pay for these lockdowns.

Gortanna wrote: »

But what evidence is there to suggest they wouldn't if RTÉ started reporting flu case numbers?

Because they have stated numerous times that they won't be introducing restrictions again, hence, the cautious opening. And this is for covid, there is no appetite whatsoever for flu lockdowns - even typing that seems crazy.

Gortanna wrote: »

Why wouldn't people be calling for a lockdown over hundreds of flu cases, or if the media reported about hospitals being overrun? I don't think it's a ridiculous argument, or a conspiracy theory. It may be unlikely, but it's a very real possibility.

Finally, we agree

paddyisreal · 03-05-2021 04:26PM

gozunda wrote: »

My "beloved Nphet"?

Even more things which were never said? :pac:

Afaik the WHO originally came out with that guidance based on limited existing research. Research which was shown to be largely incorrect.

Though I wasn't aware it was a competition as to which country brought in mask wearing to help reduce the spread of infection first. But hey no matter

Though I'm surprised the Irish government didn't bring in mask wearing even before the beginning of the Pandemic. That would fit in with the general idea much pushed here that Ireland has had the worsest / harshest / strictest / most totalitarian restrictions / lockdowns / incarcerations in the Universe or wtte...

As you constantly state 'follow the science' and are the chief government,nphet apologist I was just wondering how they were so slow on masks, antigen testing, airports.
Maybe they were just a bit slow following the science as you say

growleaves · 03-05-2021 04:27PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Again - "may suggest". Not exactly conclusive evidence

Its not conclusive no, and nobody knows the future, but the UK are putting new covid-safety bureaucratic infrastructure in place.

Today Boris Johnson said social distancing will be discontinued next month.

Logically these 'Covid marshals' should not be recruited at all since the UK is (supposedly) in the midst of an irreversible winding-down of restrictions.

What these mixed signals say to me is that they're keeping another lockdown in their back pocket in case they decide they want one.

Many during and after the 1st lockdown in 2020 wrongly claimed it would be a one time event - and people who predicted future lockdowns were ridiculed then.

dominatinMC · 03-05-2021 04:30PM

growleaves wrote: »

Its not conclusive no, and nobody knows the future, but the UK are putting new covid-safety bureaucratic infrastructure in place.

Today Boris Johnson said social distancing will be discontinued next month.

Logically these 'Covid marshals' should not be recruited at all since the UK is (supposedly) in the midst of an irreversible winding-down of restrictions.

What these mixed signals say to me is that they're keeping another lockdown in their back pocket in case they decide they want one.

Many during and after the 1st lockdown in 2020 wrongly claimed it would be a one time event - and people who predicted future lockdowns were ridiculed.

Again, all prudent planning.

There seems to be this perception out there that governments enjoy lockdowns. Politicians are people too, who want to travel, meet, socialise. And they want to stay in power. Which they certainly won't be if they implement unwarranted lockdowns

B2021M · 03-05-2021 04:37PM

charlie14 wrote: »

What were these sudden changes or the difference between what politicians were saying ?
The politicians and NPHET have always stressed, and still are, how important it is to keep numbers low. Politically the message was that vaccines were the way out of this yoyoing in and out of lockdown.

I cannot see where anyone would get the idea from that NPHET suddenly decide out of the blue to give us a pleasant surprise.
NPHET primarily follow the data when it comes to recommendations. I cannot see how some are finding that so difficult to understand.

It was widely suggested no inter county travel until July. Changing that to May 10 is a big change.

03-05-2021 04:44PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Ah, yes they do. Look at the statements from Pascal Donoghue this week, the money is gone, they know it, and need to open up to get the economy going again to actually pay for these lockdowns.

Because they have stated numerous times that they won't be introducing restrictions again, hence, the cautious opening. And this is for covid, there is no appetite whatsoever for flu lockdowns - even typing that seems crazy.

Finally, we agree

And you believe them? In the UK the Government ruled out vaccine passports over and again and are now set to roll them out.

No appetite now, but there might be in the future if RTÉ start reporting on case numbers for the flu. But I hope they won't happen.

charlie14 · 03-05-2021 04:53PM

B2021M wrote: »

It was widely suggested no inter county travel until July. Changing that to May 10 is a big change.

If we were to believe suggestions then Covid wouldn`t exist and vaccines would contain microchips funded by Bill Gates.

B2021M · 03-05-2021 04:55PM

charlie14 wrote: »

If we were to believe suggestions then Covid wouldn`t exist and vaccines would contain microchips funded by Bill Gates.

Suggestions from government ministers who never mention the above.

charlie14 · 03-05-2021 05:00PM

B2021M wrote: »

Suggestions from government ministers who never mention the above.

Which goes to show you should never regard suggestions as being anywhere close to written in stone.

B2021M · 03-05-2021 05:01PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Which goes to show you should never regard suggestions as being anywhere close to written in stone.

I didnt. But they were making suggestions based on 'advice' presumably from NPHET. Something changed.

FintanMcluskey · 03-05-2021 05:10PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Ah, yes they do. Look at the statements from Pascal Donoghue this week, the money is gone, they know it, and need to open up to get the economy going again to actually pay for these lockdowns.

Agree with you here

That’s why the reopening was accelerated, there was no analysis of data regarding vaccine effectiveness, they just realised the pot is empty

charlie14 · 03-05-2021 05:10PM

B2021M wrote: »

I didnt. But they were making suggestions based on 'advice' presumably from NPHET. Something changed.

I would have no great faith in suggestions. Less so on suggestions assumed on suggestions from someone else. That is in the area of the line of soldiers where the first hears they are about to advance. By the time it reaches the end of the line it becomes "Lend us a tenner we`re going to a dance".

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:15PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

A u turn on June's reopening is a sad reality and how damaging will that be for everyone

Big Preparations are going into some pubs for the June 7th outdoor reopening

It's not a sad reality. It's not any kind of reality. It's currently a figment of your imagination.

PTH2009 · 03-05-2021 05:16PM

Parachutes wrote: »

Flu lockdowns? That’s fcuking nuts.

Yeah if is but it could be reworded as

'Protect the health service lockdown'

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:17PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

That magic line of

'The following will considered for June subject to maintaing progress of the virus'

I'm not saying it will happen but the danger is there

You did say it would happen though. You said it was a sad reality.

B2021M · 03-05-2021 05:23PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I would have no great faith in suggestions. Less so on suggestions assumed on suggestions from someone else. That is in the area of the line of soldiers where the first hears they are about to advance. By the time it reaches the end of the line it becomes "Lend us a tenner we`re going to a dance".

Nobody is talking about having faith in suggestions. There was a clear line from the govt which changed quite a bit at the last minute. My only point is it reduces the credibility of the govt in this and other areas.

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Covid marshals: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/covid-marshals-could-place-until-24003205

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/hertfordshire-county-council-councils-government-england-hertfordshire-b932048.html

As I say, I agree that planning is important, but the marshals are going to be put to work. That's different from something like 'plan for the recruitment of marshals if necessary'. That's why I don't buy the statement by Jim McManus that's linked to in the article. They are recruiting them to put them to work.

I can't link to all the surveys, but the results of YouGov surveys have consistently shown strong support for lockdowns, and even harsher lockdowns.

I think they will be used from now on. I can't see the government allowing hospitals to be overrun every year.

You don't buy this statement - hiring Covid marshals was "not indicative of any increases in restrictions from July 2021 onwards".
I do.

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In certain countries. Why would the Irish Government allow hospitals to be overrun every year when they can use lockdown?

They can...but in my opinion, they won't. One of us will be right.

charlie14 · 03-05-2021 05:28PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Agree with you here

That’s why the reopening was accelerated, there was no analysis of data regarding vaccine effectiveness, they just realised the pot is empty

If you think about it that really does not make a lot of sense.

The plan was that this lockdown would hopefully be the last. Do you think that had nothing to do with vaccines ?
I mean, do you honestly see the easing of restrictions is because nobody looked at the books until last week and then decided suddently we should open up.

PTH2009 · 03-05-2021 05:29PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You did say it would happen though. You said it was a sad reality.

Well i didn't mean it would definitely happen

Jesus Christ is a person allowed say a non positive comment nowadays without getting someone jumping down their throat

I don't want anymore lockdowns ever and want things to back to pre covid times sooner rather than later

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:34PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Prudent planning would be to plan to recruit them if necessary, not recruit them and put them to work until 2022, and possibly until 2023.

January 2022. So, basically the end of the year. Possibly until January 2023.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The extension of the Act until October may suggest that a winter lockdown is going to happen.

It suggests nothing of the sort. It would possibly suggest it if the act was extended to January or February. October is only autumn, not winter.

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:36PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But what evidence is there to suggest they wouldn't if RTÉ started reporting flu case numbers? Why wouldn't people be calling for a lockdown over hundreds of flu cases, or if the media reported about hospitals being overrun? I don't think it's a ridiculous argument, or a conspiracy theory. It may be unlikely, but it's a very real possibility.

That's a change in your outlook. Earlier, you said we'd be locked down every winter.

Penfailed · 03-05-2021 05:43PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Agree with you here

That’s why the reopening was accelerated, there was no analysis of data regarding vaccine effectiveness, they just realised the pot is empty

I disagree with you here. If money was going to be an issue, we'd never have locked down in the first place.

B2021M · 03-05-2021 05:45PM

Penfailed wrote: »

I disagree with you here. If money was going to be an issue, we'd never have locked down in the first place.

Its the amount of money....no more can be spent.

charlie14 · 03-05-2021 05:45PM

B2021M wrote: »

Nobody is talking about having faith in suggestions. There was a clear line from the govt which changed quite a bit at the last minute. My only point is it reduces the credibility of the govt in this and other areas.

I really do not know how many times or how many ways I have to say this at this stage.
The U.K. began phased reopening on 12th April based on their level of those vaccinated. Had their eestimate of that level being incorrect it would have shown within 14 days. It didn`t.

Our plan was always to begin reopening based on vaccines ensuring we would not have to go yoyoing back into lockdown, but until the U.K. went at their level, nobody knew what level worked. Several countries had tried at lower levels and got it wrong.

We will basically be reopening on the same level as the U.K. first phase on June 7th. when our levels of vaccination are much the same as the U.K. was on April 12th.

The U.K. had a 4 tests that had to be passed before they moved to the next level of reopening and the same applies here.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings