Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

asimp11 · 01-05-2021 09:50AM

graememk wrote: »

they all supply 32amps,
If your voltage is 220v you'll get 7.04kw

If your voltage is 240v you'll get 7.68kw.

Charge points are just control circuitry for the car, and a beefy contactor that enables the power when everything is ready.

Yes sounds like simple voltage drop. CT monitor would drop it much more drastically to protect your main fuse if you were overloaded. Remember the ESB have to allow for power factor which adds around 3 amps to their system which we don't have to pay for.

handpref · 01-05-2021 10:54AM

Patmwgs wrote: »

I think energias prices went up, and they wont do it for me either.

Careful on the small print, my energia deal put a cap of 2000 on the night rate per billing period. Think it only went up a cent or two but il be more careful the next time, in winter between the heat pumps, pv battery, washing machine etc and two cars we went well over.

AidenL · 01-05-2021 12:01PM

WayneEnterprise wrote: »

Their SLA is 4-6 weeks so I wouldn’t go hassling them. You’ll get the money.

Running at 9 weeks at the moment. It was for me anyway.

I found them very difficult to get updates from.

electrofelix · 01-05-2021 01:26PM

I'm looking to get an EV charger for my plugin hybrid. My current car can support max of 3.7KW charging, however I'd rather get one of the models that support 22KW so that there is no need to worry about replacing the charge point for the next car.

Given the following list of features (order of priority):
* Capable up to 22KW
* Load balancing
* Can support using solar PV
* Lockable socket
* Discrete
* Un-tethered (can you really have a discrete tethered???)

Currently it looks like I'm having to sacrifice a bit on the discrete and go with the zappi v2: https://ecarinfra.ie/collections/ev-at-home/products/zappi-v2-solar-connected

Am I missing any alternatives that would meet the above list of features in order of priority?

Patmwgs · 01-05-2021 01:44PM

electrofelix wrote: »

I'm looking to get an EV charger for my plugin hybrid. My current car can support max of 3.7KW charging, however I'd rather get one of the models that support 22KW so that there is no need to worry about replacing the charge point for the next car.

Given the following list of features (order of priority):
* Capable up to 22KW
* Load balancing
* Can support using solar PV
* Lockable socket
* Discrete
* Un-tethered (can you really have a discrete tethered???)

Currently it looks like I'm having to sacrifice a bit on the discrete and go with the zappi v2: https://ecarinfra.ie/collections/ev-at-home/products/zappi-v2-solar-connected

Am I missing any alternatives that would meet the above list of features in order of priority?

You need a three phase supply for 22kw

graememk · 01-05-2021 01:59PM

electrofelix wrote: »

I'm looking to get an EV charger for my plugin hybrid. My current car can support max of 3.7KW charging, however I'd rather get one of the models that support 22KW so that there is no need to worry about replacing the charge point for the next car.

Given the following list of features (order of priority):
* Capable up to 22KW
* Load balancing
* Can support using solar PV
* Lockable socket
* Discrete
* Un-tethered (can you really have a discrete tethered???)

Currently it looks like I'm having to sacrifice a bit on the discrete and go with the zappi v2: https://ecarinfra.ie/collections/ev-at-home/products/zappi-v2-solar-connected

Am I missing any alternatives that would meet the above list of features in order of priority?

As others have said, you need a three phase supply for 22kW - max you can have on single phase is 7kw (32 amps)

An eo mini pro might work for you too. I think load management is included.

I don't think any of them are lockable, unless you mean the cable locks into place? Like it does on the car end?

You could put a lock on the isolator, or just power it off at your consumer unit, and I think the zappi has a pin to use option.

Patmwgs · 01-05-2021 03:04PM

graememk wrote: »

As others have said, you need a three phase supply for 22kW - max you can have on single phase is 7kw (32 amps)

An eo mini pro might work for you too. I think load management is included.

I don't think any of them are lockable, unless you mean the cable locks into place? Like it does on the car end?

You could put a lock on the isolator, or just power it off at your consumer unit, and I think the zappi has a pin to use option.

The sync ev charger has an rfid card for personal use only as a setting.

eagerv · 01-05-2021 03:39PM

I would recommend a charge point that uses a delivery from the EU rather than the UK.

My recent Zappi2 problem took almost 8 weeks for the replacement to arrive from Myenergi in the UK. Talking to an installer, they have had similar problems.

electrofelix · 02-05-2021 03:05PM

Patmwgs wrote: »

You need a three phase supply for 22kw

Based on the FAQs for the Zappi V2 I understand that you can connect the 3-phase to a 1-phase supply. This limits the initial charging power capabilities but I figured this will work nicely to allowing upgrading when it's useful for our future cars without needing to replace the charging unit as well.

Unless there is some restriction on getting 3 phase added to a domestic house that I'm unaware of? It's not something I'll be doing straight away as I don't need it yet, but I was assuming it would be relevant within 3-5 years, and hoping to get ~10 years from a charging unit.

graememk wrote: »

An eo mini pro might work for you too. I think load management is included.

I don't think any of them are lockable, unless you mean the cable locks into place? Like it does on the car end?

You could put a lock on the isolator, or just power it off at your consumer unit, and I think the zappi has a pin to use option.

I don't think the eo mini pro has the capability to be switched up to 22KW unless I've missed something? Have a higher preference for that over discrete, otherwise yes, it looks to be very neat and tidy.

Happy enough with the pin solution, it's not ideal but just as long as the unit has some ability to prevent someone else from using it. Ideally it would be nice to prevent someone from messing and unplugging it on me, but can't have everything.

Patmwgs wrote: »

The sync ev charger has an rfid card for personal use only as a setting.

That looks handy, and discrete, though looks like they don't have a 22KW version yet for home usage, unless I've missed it?

eagerv wrote: »

I would recommend a charge point that uses a delivery from the EU rather than the UK.

My recent Zappi2 problem took almost 8 weeks for the replacement to arrive from Myenergi in the UK. Talking to an installer, they have had similar problems.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when picking a supplier/fitter. Brexit is making a lot of stuff more inconvenient.

Thanks for all the suggestions, it does seem like given my personal preference order, unless I've missed some issue about getting 3 phase power in the future, that the zappi v2 is the best option as I can have it switched to 3 phase later.

the_amazing_raisin · 02-05-2021 04:02PM

You don't need a 3 phase charger, a 7kW charger is almost certainly enough for you

If you charge between midnight and 7am, that's 49kWh, enough for 250-300km driving in most cars. If you need more then just start charging earlier and spend a little more

It costs several thousand to upgrade to a 3 phase supply so unless you're getting a Tesla Roadster 2 with a 200kWh battery and driving 1000km every day, you'll never need it and it'll never pay for itself

It's tempting to try and future proof, but you'll be paying extra now for something that you're almost certainly never going to need

liamog · 02-05-2021 04:05PM

The reality being most cars are standardising on 11kW AC chargers anyway, so in all likelihood that's an expensive what to reduce your overnight charging time by 33%.

graememk · 02-05-2021 04:21PM

electrofelix wrote: »

Thanks for all the suggestions, it does seem like given my personal preference order, unless I've missed some issue about getting 3 phase power in the future, that the zappi v2 is the best option as I can have it switched to 3 phase later.

Getting upgraded to three phase, would basically be a new install from ESBN

And really depends on whats in your location, Going on esbn docs a special 3 phase connection is €4,294 + MV Network Charges (for 29kva), then new consumer unit + related wiring. Also new cables into your house.

Unless your charging 3 or more ev's you wont need a three phase connection.
(Id say you could nearly get away with a 29kva single phase if needing to charge 3 ev's at once)

Also about locking it etc, if your charging in your drive way, nobody is going to rock up and start charging and leaving their car, for hours. all to save a few euro.

If you ever go 3 phase, the charge point is the least of your worries.

Kramer · 02-05-2021 04:47PM

electrofelix wrote: »

Happy enough with the pin solution, it's not ideal but just as long as the unit has some ability to prevent someone else from using it. Ideally it would be nice to prevent someone from messing and unplugging it on me, but can't have everything.

New installs require a big red isolator switch fitted within reach of the unit - just so you aware. It's not the most discrete looking thing & obviously anyone can easily switch off your charge. It's something to be aware of if you're particularly worried about interference with your unit or in an exposed, vandal prone area.

Maybe worth touching base with an electrician about placement, if you had concerns, but generally, I've never heard of anyone interfering with someone's home charging. There are hundreds of EV owners charging every night & we'd surely have heard by now if it was a problem for anyone.

Best of luck with it.

the_amazing_raisin · 02-05-2021 09:07PM

electrofelix wrote: »

Happy enough with the pin solution, it's not ideal but just as long as the unit has some ability to prevent someone else from using it. Ideally it would be nice to prevent someone from messing and unplugging it on me, but can't have everything.

What's the concern regarding people messing with the charger?

If you're concerned someone will come along and use the charger when you aren't around then don't worry, it'll never happen. To get a decent charge you'd probably need to stay there for 2 hours or more and it'd save maybe €1

If you were a thief, 2 hours of risk for €1 just isn't worth it, especially considering if you get caught you can't just drive away, you need to unplug first.

The biggest risk would be if your charger is in a public place like on street parking and someone thought it was for public use

I've heard of one incident where someone used a charger without permission and they were basically desperate for a charge and left an apology note and some money for the homeowner. The owner would likely not have found out if it weren't for the note

As for people unplugging your car, you can lock the cable into the car and only release when you allow it. So someone can't come along and rip out your cable

Probably the biggest risk would be kids pressing buttons on the charger and messing with the settings. A pin code (or a dumb charger with no buttons) easily solves this

electrofelix · 02-05-2021 10:06PM

Maybe I'm making a few too many assumptions on the limitations with single phase, so might have to rethink the option I'm picking and might be able to go with something else instead.

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

It's tempting to try and future proof, but you'll be paying extra now for something that you're almost certainly never going to need

I have a shed/workspace going in that the electrician has recommended a 32A circuit based on power/compression tools. Coupled with the expectation of an extension in a few years, I was thinking the car charger would bring me close enough to the limits that to do the extension I'd need to upgrade to an enhanced connection so going to 3 phase then would be just as convenient.

liamog wrote: »

The reality being most cars are standardising on 11kW AC chargers anyway, so in all likelihood that's an expensive what to reduce your overnight charging time by 33%.

That's interesting, while I understood most cars were getting 11kW chargers for now, I was thinking that we'll see quite a few more adopting the 22kW chargers about 5 years down the road.

graememk wrote: »

Getting upgraded to three phase, would basically be a new install from ESBN

And really depends on whats in your location, Going on esbn docs a special 3 phase connection is €4,294 + MV Network Charges (for 29kva), then new consumer unit + related wiring. Also new cables into your house.

Unless your charging 3 or more ev's you wont need a three phase connection.
(Id say you could nearly get away with a 29kva single phase if needing to charge 3 ev's at once)

I was assuming I would need to get at least an enhanced connection in the future (didn't see there was a 29kva single phase option), so I was thinking that going to 3 phase wouldn't be much of a jump in that case. Assuming getting enhanced is basically the same idea of being a new connection as well, which is why I was thinking I'd might as well go for 3 phase when that happens?

graememk wrote: »

Also about locking it etc, if your charging in your drive way, nobody is going to rock up and start charging and leaving their car, for hours. all to save a few euro.

I'm thinking more along the lines of children experimenting with sticking stuff in sockets, I'm sure there is some attempt to prevent this from happening, not sure that engineers foresight >> children's ingenuity. If it simply won't allow power out to the socket without a pin or key being waved over it, have piece of mind that it's even more unlikely to be an issue.

Kramer wrote: »

New installs require a big red isolator switch fitted within reach of the unit - just so you aware. It's not the most discrete looking thing & obviously anyone can easily switch off your charge. It's something to be aware of if you're particularly worried about interference with your unit or in an exposed, vandal prone area.

Thanks, good to know, looks like they are the same size as the charging sockets for the more discrete ones so will likely look like just another socket on the side of the house.

Kramer wrote: »

Maybe worth touching base with an electrician about placement, if you had concerns, but generally, I've never heard of anyone interfering with someone's home charging. There are hundreds of EV owners charging every night & we'd surely have heard by now if it was a problem for anyone.

Less theft and more safety, but yes I should probably check with my electrician as I forgot to mention about the car charger when it was over recently to see if he would know how close I'd come to needing to look at the connection with the power going to the shed.

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

What's the concern regarding people messing with the charger?

<snip>

Probably the biggest risk would be kids pressing buttons on the charger and messing with the settings. A pin code (or a dumb charger with no buttons) easily solves this

Agreed, unlikely there would be theft (rather small value), children messing with is the main concern.

Patmwgs · 02-05-2021 10:28PM

electrofelix wrote: »

Maybe I'm making a few too many assumptions on the limitations with single phase, so might have to rethink the option I'm picking and might be able to go with something else instead.

I have a shed/workspace going in that the electrician has recommended a 32A circuit based on power/compression tools. Coupled with the expectation of an extension in a few years, I was thinking the car charger would bring me close enough to the limits that to do the extension I'd need to upgrade to an enhanced connection so going to 3 phase then would be just as convenient.

That's interesting, while I understood most cars were getting 11kW chargers for now, I was thinking that we'll see quite a few more adopting the 22kW chargers about 5 years down the road.

I was assuming I would need to get at least an enhanced connection in the future (didn't see there was a 29kva single phase option), so I was thinking that going to 3 phase wouldn't be much of a jump in that case. Assuming getting enhanced is basically the same idea of being a new connection as well, which is why I was thinking I'd might as well go for 3 phase when that happens?

I'm thinking more along the lines of children experimenting with sticking stuff in sockets, I'm sure there is some attempt to prevent this from happening, not sure that engineers foresight >> children's ingenuity. If it simply won't allow power out to the socket without a pin or key being waved over it, have piece of mind that it's even more unlikely to be an issue.

Thanks, good to know, looks like they are the same size as the charging sockets for the more discrete ones so will likely look like just another socket on the side of the house.

Less theft and more safety, but yes I should probably check with my electrician as I forgot to mention about the car charger when it was over recently to see if he would know how close I'd come to needing to look at the connection with the power going to the shed.

Agreed, unlikely there would be theft (rather small value), children messing with is the main concern.

If you are worried about your shed supply, you could tap in to the meter box and get a charger with power management, it throttles back when other heavy appliances are on. If you get one with an card no power will go to the plug so child proof.

graememk · 02-05-2021 10:55PM

electrofelix wrote: »

I was assuming I would need to get at least an enhanced connection in the future (didn't see there was a 29kva single phase option), so I was thinking that going to 3 phase wouldn't be much of a jump in that case. Assuming getting enhanced is basically the same idea of being a new connection as well, which is why I was thinking I'd might as well go for 3 phase when that happens?

I'm thinking more along the lines of children experimenting with sticking stuff in sockets, I'm sure there is some attempt to prevent this from happening, not sure that engineers foresight >> children's ingenuity. If it simply won't allow power out to the socket without a pin or key being waved over it, have piece of mind that it's even more unlikely to be an issue.

It's the medium voltage network charges that would make or break it for a three phase install really. Eg for me the nearest 3 phase lines are miles away.

As for the charger itself, the plug is totally dead until it's connected and locked and the car requests the power, then the contactor goes ka-chunk and only at that point there is power flowing, as soon as it's disconnected the power is cut. Also the pins are very recessed into the sockets/plugs,

electrofelix · 03-05-2021 11:01AM

Patmwgs wrote: »

If you are worried about your shed supply, you could tap in to the meter box and get a charger with power management, it throttles back when other heavy appliances are on. If you get one with an card no power will go to the plug so child proof.

The load balancing feature is definitely on the must have list.

Actually I just remembered that I've previously blown an LED bulb in my office, most likely due to unstable power. Could just be using the wrong circuit, definitely need to have a chat with the electrician to check what the peak/average power consumption is right now as when the shed is hooked up I'll likely want to add a vacuum system to keep the amount of dust down when cutting/sanding.

Having the car charger have load balancing isn't much good if I'm tripping fuses on a regular basis due to the rest of the appliances being capable of overloading.

electrofelix · 03-05-2021 11:16AM

graememk wrote: »

It's the medium voltage network charges that would make or break it for a three phase install really. Eg for me the nearest 3 phase lines are miles away.

For me it's less than 300m or less than 100m depending on which one they would have to run the wiring from based on https://www.esbnetworks.ie/new-connections/generator-connections/network-capacity-map

graememk wrote: »

As for the charger itself, the plug is totally dead until it's connected and locked and the car requests the power, then the contactor goes ka-chunk and only at that point there is power flowing, as soon as it's disconnected the power is cut. Also the pins are very recessed into the sockets/plugs,

Thanks I'll keep that in mind. As it turns out between the eo mini pro and the sync ev, the latter of which has locking, the app appears to be sufficiently poor for the eo mini pro2 based on reviews that I'd go for the sync ev over it, which does have an rfid based lock.

electrofelix · 03-05-2021 11:24AM

So I think the final list of options I have is:

* Zappi V2 - if it looks like I'll need to upgrade the house supply this seems like it will be more beneficial in the future
* Sync EV + load balancing option - if it looks like no supply upgrade needed, this may be the best alternative for me to the zappi

Looking at the app reviews, I'm discounting the eo mini pro as an option. Seems like it's relatively poor. The Sync EV doesn't have many reviews on android, but appears to be rated slightly better than the myenergi though with less reviewers on apple, so possibly about the same.

I possibly need to try and find out a bit more about the Sync EV app, as even if there is no point to consider a supply upgrade for other reasons, the app for the Zappi models suggests that it might just be more convenient.

WayneEnterprise · 03-05-2021 12:06PM

electrofelix wrote: »

So I think the final list of options I have is:

* Zappi V2 - if it looks like I'll need to upgrade the house supply this seems like it will be more beneficial in the future
* Sync EV + load balancing option - if it looks like no supply upgrade needed, this may be the best alternative for me to the zappi

Looking at the app reviews, I'm discounting the eo mini pro as an option. Seems like it's relatively poor. The Sync EV doesn't have many reviews on android, but appears to be rated slightly better than the myenergi though with less reviewers on apple, so possibly about the same.

I possibly need to try and find out a bit more about the Sync EV app, as even if there is no point to consider a supply upgrade for other reasons, the app for the Zappi models suggests that it might just be more convenient.

The Mini Pro 2 has a brand new app which is separate to the previous Pros.

EO apparently outsourced the app to a third party originally but have now brought development in house with the Pro 2. I have the Pro 2 and the app is perfect with no issues.

electrofelix · 03-05-2021 12:32PM

WayneEnterprise wrote: »

The Mini Pro 2 has a brand new app which is separate to the previous Pros.

EO apparently outsourced the app to a third party originally but have now brought development in house with the Pro 2. I have the Pro 2 and the app is perfect with no issues.

This app -> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eocharging.eoAppHome&hl=en_IE&gl=GB&showAllReviews=true

Does the scheduled charging work, as there is a few reviews there indicating there are issues with getting it to work, settings not saving correctly?

No reviews on the apple app store https://apps.apple.com/us/app/eo-smart-home/id1471103159

The sync ev is a bit lacking on reviews, but the zappi certainly has enough to suggest it's ahead of both of them?

Patmwgs · 03-05-2021 01:12PM

electrofelix wrote: »

This app -> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eocharging.eoAppHome&hl=en_IE&gl=GB&showAllReviews=true

Does the scheduled charging work, as there is a few reviews there indicating there are issues with getting it to work, settings not saving correctly?

No reviews on the apple app store https://apps.apple.com/us/app/eo-smart-home/id1471103159

The sync ev is a bit lacking on reviews, but the zappi certainly has enough to suggest it's ahead of both of them?

Some zappi users in the uk are having problems with timed charging and solar charging not working with the id3

Felexicon · 03-05-2021 01:31PM

electrofelix wrote: »

This app -> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eocharging.eoAppHome&hl=en_IE&gl=GB&showAllReviews=true

Does the scheduled charging work, as there is a few reviews there indicating there are issues with getting it to work, settings not saving correctly?

No reviews on the apple app store https://apps.apple.com/us/app/eo-smart-home/id1471103159

The sync ev is a bit lacking on reviews, but the zappi certainly has enough to suggest it's ahead of both of them?

You should take a look at the Wallbox Pulsar Plus too.

Load balancing
Has app with the ability to lock charger
Wifi enabled

Or if unthetered is what you really want the Wallbox Copper SB is a lovely looking charger with all the features of the Pulsar Plus

Cyrus · 03-05-2021 04:23PM

electrofelix wrote: »

So I think the final list of options I have is:

* Zappi V2 - if it looks like I'll need to upgrade the house supply this seems like it will be more beneficial in the future
* Sync EV + load balancing option - if it looks like no supply upgrade needed, this may be the best alternative for me to the zappi

Looking at the app reviews, I'm discounting the eo mini pro as an option. Seems like it's relatively poor. The Sync EV doesn't have many reviews on android, but appears to be rated slightly better than the myenergi though with less reviewers on apple, so possibly about the same.

I possibly need to try and find out a bit more about the Sync EV app, as even if there is no point to consider a supply upgrade for other reasons, the app for the Zappi models suggests that it might just be more convenient.

What are you looking for from an app ? There isn't much to it

electrofelix · 03-05-2021 06:05PM

Patmwgs wrote:

Some zappi users in the uk are having problems with timed charging and solar charging not working with the id3

Fun, why is it never simple. Hopefully someone has it and can share.

Felexicon wrote:

Or if unthetered is what you really want the Wallbox Copper SB is a lovely looking charger with all the features of the Pulsar Plus

That does look very nice, and appears to cover all the bases as well as being smaller than the zappi. Will look into the app.

Cyrus wrote:

What are you looking for from an app ? There isn't much to it

Generally just want the scheduler to work, some costing based on usage and rates. Little bit surprised to have seen comments about the time scheduling not working. As that seems fairly core. Hence my thinking they might not all that good.

I guess one important question is how well do any of these smart capabilities work if the company supplying fails? Not clear how much depends on the cloud vs local smarts

Felexicon · 03-05-2021 06:18PM

electrofelix wrote: »

Fun, why is it never simple. Hopefully someone has it and can share.

That does look very nice, and appears to cover all the bases as well as being smaller than the zappi. Will look into the app.

Generally just want the scheduler to work, some costing based on usage and rates. Little bit surprised to have seen comments about the time scheduling not working. As that seems fairly core. Hence my thinking they might not all that good.

I guess one important question is how well do any of these smart capabilities work if the company supplying fails? Not clear how much depends on the cloud vs local smarts

There is also an online portal with Wallbox if you are looking to track usage and costs. Makes it easier to view than through the app.

KCross · 03-05-2021 08:31PM

electrofelix wrote: »

I'm looking to get an EV charger for my plugin hybrid. My current car can support max of 3.7KW charging, however I'd rather get one of the models that support 22KW so that there is no need to worry about replacing the charge point for the next car.

Given the following list of features (order of priority):
* Capable up to 22KW
* Load balancing
* Can support using solar PV
* Lockable socket
* Discrete
* Un-tethered (can you really have a discrete tethered???)

Currently it looks like I'm having to sacrifice a bit on the discrete and go with the zappi v2: https://ecarinfra.ie/collections/ev-at-home/products/zappi-v2-solar-connected

Am I missing any alternatives that would meet the above list of features in order of priority?

electrofelix wrote: »

Maybe I'm making a few too many assumptions on the limitations with single phase, so might have to rethink the option I'm picking and might be able to go with something else instead.

+1 on this. I think you are over complicating it.

Unless you are doing crazy miles you wont need 22kW even if the car can take it and even if you have a charge point to deliver it. It isnt a case of go as high as you can to future proof it.

The decision you need to make there is around how likely you are to get 3-phase in the future. Nothing you have described would suggest you need 3-phase but only your electrician and your wallet can really answer that.

Bear in mind its not just the connection charges from the ESB, there is also the electrician charges for (re)wiring your consumer unit for 3-phase. It wont be cheap so you would need a really good reason to retrospectively install 3-ph in this country. Even then, 11kW would be fine for home charging. If you stick with 1ph then obviously 7kW is what you need.

You can still buy a 22kW capable car if that becomes the norm and you will utilise the 22kW when using public chargers and 11kW at home.

electrofelix wrote: »

I was assuming I would need to get at least an enhanced connection in the future (didn't see there was a 29kva single phase option), so I was thinking that going to 3 phase wouldn't be much of a jump in that case. Assuming getting enhanced is basically the same idea of being a new connection as well, which is why I was thinking I'd might as well go for 3 phase when that happens?

electrofelix wrote: »

I have a shed/workspace going in that the electrician has recommended a 32A circuit based on power/compression tools. Coupled with the expectation of an extension in a few years, I was thinking the car charger would bring me close enough to the limits that to do the extension I'd need to upgrade to an enhanced connection so going to 3 phase then would be just as convenient.

No, it wouldnt.

Big difference between getting the "enhanced supply" to a "3-phase supply" from a financial and electrical perspective. The enhanced supply is just taking you up to 16kVA from 12kVA (standard). You can go higher again and stay on single phase if you really need to.

An enhanced supply is a higher rated fuse in the meter box and you have to upgrade the "tails" from the meter to your consumer unit (basically a thicker cable). You may have to upgrade the consumer unit too if it is too old. Getting 3ph in is alot more complicated.

However, the shed/workspace you have described doesnt sound like it warrants 3-phase. 3-ph would be better, of course, for compressors but 32A supply to a shed isnt that big a deal for 1ph and I presume you would not be running those items during the night when the car is charging and with a load sensing charge point like the Zappi it wouldnt matter anyway as it would ramp up/down as the machinery comes on/off. Thats the whole point of getting a load sensing charge point.

electrofelix wrote: »

That's interesting, while I understood most cars were getting 11kW chargers for now, I was thinking that we'll see quite a few more adopting the 22kW chargers about 5 years down the road.

Possibly but you still dont need it at home. Do you care if your car finished charging at 3am instead of 6am?.... thats the primary benefit to you really.

If you think you will pay the piper and get 3ph in, then get a 3ph charger but other than that just get a charge point that provides 7kW and it will do you fine.

Worst case scenario is that you sell it on later and get a higher powered one then. Paying up front for something that you are very unlikely to utilise is the wrong direction, imo.

electrofelix wrote: »

I'm thinking more along the lines of children experimenting with sticking stuff in sockets, I'm sure there is some attempt to prevent this from happening, not sure that engineers foresight >> children's ingenuity. If it simply won't allow power out to the socket without a pin or key being waved over it, have piece of mind that it's even more unlikely to be an issue.

No issues there. Its been thought of and designed into every charge point. They are not live until it is plugged into a car and the car "asks" for the power.

You dont need the lockable feature if you have a private driveway.

electrofelix wrote: »

Actually I just remembered that I've previously blown an LED bulb in my office, most likely due to unstable power. Could just be using the wrong circuit, definitely need to have a chat with the electrician to check what the peak/average power consumption is right now as when the shed is hooked up I'll likely want to add a vacuum system to keep the amount of dust down when cutting/sanding.

Again, is any of that gear going to be running at 1am in the morning when the car is charging? Even if it is, it doesnt matter as the charge point will ramp down to counteract the extra load. If you are close to the max already when the car wants to charge it simply wont start the charge session.

electrofelix wrote: »

Having the car charger have load balancing isn't much good if I'm tripping fuses on a regular basis due to the rest of the appliances being capable of overloading.

All the more reason to have it actually. You absolutely want the charge point to sense those high loads so that it doesnt become the extra load that causes the fuse to blow.

If you are close to the max already then you need the enhanced supply (16kVA) or maybe the 20kVA if your electrician works it out that you need it.

electrofelix wrote: »

Fun, why is it never simple. Hopefully someone has it and can share.

Its not a Zappi fault. Its a fault on the car side.

One of your requirements above is Solar integration. Do you have Solar already or is that another future proof idea?

There are a few things to consider there. 3-ph does have an added benefit of being able to export more excess than single phase (11kW vs 6kW).

The Zappi is the better known charge point for load sensing and Solar integration. Its hard to see passed it if you are serious about Solar, 3ph, app support and decent load management by default.

Patmwgs · 03-05-2021 08:46PM

You dont need a three phase supply to run a few machines in a workshop. I have been using a 3 phase rotary converter for about 20 years running a two motor large panelling saw and a 3 phase industrial extractor with out any problems. Im not sure but you may even be able to use it for a three phase charger should you need to.

Cyrus · 03-05-2021 09:40PM

electrofelix wrote: »

Fun, why is it never simple. Hopefully someone has it and can share.

That does look very nice, and appears to cover all the bases as well as being smaller than the zappi. Will look into the app.

Generally just want the scheduler to work, some costing based on usage and rates. Little bit surprised to have seen comments about the time scheduling not working. As that seems fairly core. Hence my thinking they might not all that good.

I guess one important question is how well do any of these smart capabilities work if the company supplying fails? Not clear how much depends on the cloud vs local smarts

Scheduler works fine on eo, you can't legislate for user error .

Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Comments