What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

30-04-2021 12:49PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Why not add the 12 European countries with a worse death rate / population to give it some context.

The comparison drawn by the poster was Ireland v uk Nigel

30-04-2021 12:50PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Well if Ireland was more like the UK in terms of population density and being a global transport hub then the results would be different.
There are many other countries with a higher population totals and density than Ireland which have lower fatality figures.
It's why having a Covid Death League is about as useful as a European Super League.

But you are happy to compare vaccination outcomes. Got it, full scale Tory style hypocrisy today.

quokula · 30-04-2021 12:52PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Let's see.
The UK issued its stay-at-home orders a day before Ireland

That's just a blatant lie, Ireland locked down well in advance of the UK, they were still talking about herd immunity at the time we were taking action (a strategy which ultimately created the Kent variant that they exported to us causing our last wave)

, this country had exactly the same problems sourcing PPE as the UK,

Again, simply untrue, there were global shortages for everyone at the beginning of the pandemic but Ireland had nothing remotely close to the PPE issues the UK suffered for months. There are calls for inquiries as it's pretty much an open secret at this point that the UK government funnelled PPE money to companies owned by Tory donors with no ability to actually supply PPE, rather than procuring it properly like we did here.

It's amazing the desperation some people have to defend what anyone (including those in Britain) can see was an utter catastrophic handling of the pandemic, probably the second worst in the world outside of Brazil.

Ireland has unfortunately suffered disproportionately due to our border with Britain and the historic / political issues with closing it, but despite that we've handled things pretty well and kept our death rates way, way below the UK's, and mostly in line with European averages.

30-04-2021 12:56PM

quokula wrote: »

That's just a blatant lie, Ireland locked down well in advance of the UK, they were still talking about herd immunity at the time we were taking action (a strategy which ultimately created the Kent variant that they exported to us causing our last wave)

Again, simply untrue, there were global shortages for everyone at the beginning of the pandemic but Ireland had nothing remotely close to the PPE issues the UK suffered for months. There are calls for inquiries as it's pretty much an open secret at this point that the UK government funnelled PPE money to companies owned by Tory donors with no ability to actually supply PPE, rather than procuring it properly like we did here.

It's amazing the desperation some people have to defend what anyone (including those in Britain) can see was an utter catastrophic handling of the pandemic, probably the second worst in the world outside of Brazil.

Ireland has unfortunately suffered disproportionately due to our border with Britain and the historic / political issues with closing it, but despite that we've handled things pretty well and kept our death rates way, way below the UK's, and mostly in line with European averages.

Ireland also has the best fans in the world, so I hear.:rolleyes:

Tyrone212 · 30-04-2021 12:59PM

Aegir wrote: »

Ireland also has the best fans in the world, so I hear.:rolleyes:

Much better than the hooligans who do England proud every time they go away. They run home when the Russians come along though.

30-04-2021 01:13PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Much better than the hooligans who do England proud every time they go away. They run home when the Russians come along though.

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-04-2021 01:15PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Much better than the hooligans who do England proud every time they go away. They run home when the Russians come along though.

There's off topic...and then there's this shìte :pac:

Tyrone212 · 30-04-2021 01:19PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There's off topic...and then there's this shìte :pac:

And who took it off topic by bringing up Irish fans?

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-04-2021 01:21PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

And who took it off topic by bringing up Irish fans?

I can see that sarcasm isnt your strong point so I'll explain.

He was being sarcastic. :rolleyes:

Tyrone212 · 30-04-2021 01:24PM

Aegir wrote: »

Guy who mocks and laughs at the famine on a vaccine thread. Calls Ireland a banana Republic, constantly complains about it yet chooses to continue living here as an immigrant, why? although you did escape a real banana monarchy with all the dodgy dealings going on over there and has started 10+ threads crying about being banned from various topics. I think that little gif sums you up perfectly.

30-04-2021 01:26PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Guy who mocks and laughs at the famine on a vaccine thread. Calls Ireland a banana Republic, constantly complains about it yet chooses to continue living here as an immigrant, why? although you did escape a real banana monarchy with all the dodgy dealings going on over there and has started 10+ threads crying about being banned from various topics. I think that little gif sums you up perfectly.

Tyrone212 · 30-04-2021 01:37PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I can see that sarcasm isnt your strong point so I'll explain.

He was being sarcastic. :rolleyes:

I can see pretty much nothing is your strong point.
Given his previous statements of mocking and laughing about the famine on this thread, calling Ireland a banana Republic etc, constantly running the country down yet he chooses to move here from England and to continue living here, its just a constant theme of nonsense.

30-04-2021 01:43PM

that's pretty bad taste to be honest

Beasty · 30-04-2021 01:47PM

Aegir wrote: »

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Guy who mocks and laughs at the famine on a vaccine thread. Calls Ireland a banana Republic, constantly complains about it yet chooses to continue living here as an immigrant, why? although you did escape a real banana monarchy with all the dodgy dealings going on over there and has started 10+ threads crying about being banned from various topics. I think that little gif sums you up perfectly.

Aegir wrote: »

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I can see pretty much nothing is your strong point.
Given his previous statements of mocking and laughing about the famine on this thread, calling Ireland a banana Republic etc, constantly running the country down yet he chooses to move here from England and to continue living here, its just a constant theme of nonsense.

Both of you are now banned from posting in this thread again

astrofool · 30-04-2021 03:56PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Either your memory is playing tricks on you or you have chosen to believe the Irish media's biased narrative. The planning and lockdown at the beginning of the outbreak was almost identical in the two countries.

Boris Johnson's attended his first emergency COBRA meeting on Monday March 2nd.

On the same day Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Health Minister Simon Harris established a special Cabinet committee to examine the full impact of the virus.

Boris Johnson announced the first full lock-down in the UK on Monday March 22nd in a televised address to the nation saying the public would not be allowed to leave their homes except for a few specific reasons

Leo Varadkar announced Ireland's first full lock-down on Wednesday March 24th in a televised address to the nation where he said the public would not be allowed to leave their homes except for a few specific reasons.

Look it up.

Ireland started closing everything on March 12th with a lockdown due to run until March 29th, on March 27th a full lockdown was announced. During this time the UK had already ploughed ahead with the Cheltenham races and were toying with going the herd immunity route before performing a volte face.

The UK never really recovered from that bad start and overtook the worst hit countries in cases and deaths, such as Italy and Spain, even though they had forewarning of what would happen.

I think the turning point was only when bojo himself got critically sick.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 30-04-2021 04:11PM

The State on Friday received its biggest shipment of AstraZeneca vaccines to date, with the delivery of 165,000 doses on Friday.

The doses against Covid-19 are expected to be used immediately in immunising those aged between 50 and 70, although the Health Service Executive is in the process of drawing up a revised overall vaccination plan.

However, Fine Gael published a guide to vaccination on social media on Friday that includes “key milestones” in the coming months albeit caveated as “subject to supply”.

According to its projection the vaccination of the over 70s will be “well-advanced” in May with the same assessment for the over-60s and “very high risk” groups having had a first dose in the same month.

It predicts that first dose vaccinations will be “underway” for 35 to 59 year olds in June and jabs for the “high risk” group will be “well advanced”.

July will see first dose vaccinations for 25-34 year olds underway in July, according to the party’s analysis.

It does not offer a prediction for when people aged 16 to 24 will be vaccinated.

Meanwhile, Mr Donnelly said the current rollout where over 60s are being vaccinated is going “very well” and the online portal for the over-50s opens next week.

Significant supplies of Johnson & Johnson are not expected to arrive in Ireland for some weeks.

On the possibility of people in their 40s being vaccinated at the same time as those in their 50s, Mr Donnelly said: “I want to stress, we’re running the numbers at the moments, we’ll be working on this through the weekend and we’ll be looking at various policy options early next week.”

Speaking on RTÉ Radio’s Today with Claire Byrne show insisted all four vaccines available are “incredibly effective”.

Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca have been linked to rare blood clots and are being administered to the over-50s because they are deemed to be at much less risk of developing such a side-effect.

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar previously said that those who refuse an AstraZeneca vaccine would find themselves waiting until the end of the vaccine rollout to be inoculated while Minister Simon Coveney said there would be at the end of the queue.

fly_agaric · 30-04-2021 04:34PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

So we're agreed then - the UK went into full lockdown before Ireland.

As mentioned above, Varadkar made his big speech from the US on the 12th of March.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0312/1121820-coronavirus/

You seem to be omitting things I remember like Cheltenham going ahead, all the schools being open in UK while they were shut here, Public transport running full tilt & offices open in London (when reduced capacity PT/work from home here) and of course the leader of the UK (Boris) flirting with outre "herd immunity via infection" ideas and casting doubt on seriousness of Covid-19 before he caught it himself and got quite ill.

It has been a long year though and I'm sure there's so so much we'd all rather shove down the memory hole now but we should not re-write history.

astrofool · 30-04-2021 06:53PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

So we're agreed then - the UK went into full lockdown before Ireland.

Nope, Ireland went into lockdown first, did you not check the dates? We realised the danger and shut everything quickly on March 12th to contain the virus, our big mistake was allowing travel from the basket case UK over Christmas 2020 (along with sending them PPE expecting the UK to be a civilised neighbour and not hoard all their and EU vaccines by nationalising AstraZeneca).

Bojo was going full bore ignore until the cases, deaths and his own almost death forced a turnaround. He is a fully signed member of the incompetent at handling coronavirus club.

Once the vaccination glee wears off he'll be facing up to 70,000 excess deaths and friends and relatives blaming him for it.

Professor Moriarty · 30-04-2021 06:59PM

Weeks before being diagnosed with Covid-19, Johnson boasts about shaking hands with Covid-19 patients:

Beechwoodspark · 30-04-2021 07:04PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Hmm https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-bodies-covid-resign-starmer-b1838863.html

Did he actually say that?

Resigning matter if true?

Call me Al · 30-04-2021 11:42PM

Hindsight hindsight...the man ended up in ICU in April all down to his ill-advised behaviour in March.
You'd think he'd behave more responsibly thereafter.
How reckless for a prime minister to carry on.

Enzokk · 01-05-2021 06:07AM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Either your memory is playing tricks on you or you have chosen to believe the Irish media's biased narrative. The planning and lockdown at the beginning of the outbreak was almost identical in the two countries.

Boris Johnson's attended his first emergency COBRA meeting on Monday March 2nd.

On the same day Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Health Minister Simon Harris established a special Cabinet committee to examine the full impact of the virus.

Boris Johnson announced the first full lock-down in the UK on Monday March 22nd in a televised address to the nation saying the public would not be allowed to leave their homes except for a few specific reasons

Leo Varadkar announced Ireland's first full lock-down on Wednesday March 24th in a televised address to the nation where he said the public would not be allowed to leave their homes except for a few specific reasons.

Look it up.

I still remember the debates that we could not compare Irish death rates to the UK at the start of the pandemic, because we were 2 weeks behind the UK in the pandemic timeline. So on which side of the argument would you have been in that debate?

Also, funny how comparisons are the rage when it comes to giving out vaccines, but not to death rates because rural population. Much like Johnson posters on here like to cherry pick and have their cake and eat it when it comes to what other can and cannot post about.

When talking about comparisons, I am happy that Germany and Italy seem to be ramping up nicely in their vaccine drive. Germany did more than 1m doses in one day the other day. Good news all round it seems.

RobMc59 · 01-05-2021 08:32AM

Interesting link detailing Spains astrazeneca vaccine rollout strategy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-extend-gap-between-astrazeneca-doses-16-weeks-2021-04-30/

is_that_so · 01-05-2021 08:35AM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Interesting link detailing Spains astrazeneca vaccine rollout strategy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-extend-gap-between-astrazeneca-doses-16-weeks-2021-04-30/

We have 16 weeks too for people done with AZ before they started the over 60s, mostly HCWs and that ever-growing Group 2.

embraer170 · 01-05-2021 09:28AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Weeks before being diagnosed with Covid-19, Johnson boasts about shaking hands with Covid-19 patients:

I think we all know a few people with such attitudes in our workplaces, extended circle of contacts, etc..

You would think they learn their lesson after catching and suffering from COVID, but I have come to realise that they just don't. I know one person who ended up in hospital but afterwards still couldn't care less about protecting others.

astrofool · 01-05-2021 12:28PM

Enzokk wrote: »

I still remember the debates that we could not compare Irish death rates to the UK at the start of the pandemic, because we were 2 weeks behind the UK in the pandemic timeline. So on which side of the argument would you have been in that debate?

Also, funny how comparisons are the rage when it comes to giving out vaccines, but not to death rates because rural population. Much like Johnson posters on here like to cherry pick and have their cake and eat it when it comes to what other can and cannot post about.

When talking about comparisons, I am happy that Germany and Italy seem to be ramping up nicely in their vaccine drive. Germany did more than 1m doses in one day the other day. Good news all round it seems.

It's just funny watching a poster literally try and rewrite history.

Reminds me of the delusional after the US election who would be claiming conspiracy from youtube videos of events that millions of people watched live.

There is huge effort these days on rewriting narratives after the fact, luckily the history books are written by the winners

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Stay-at-home orders meaning people were not allowed to leave their homes for non-essential reasons were issued in the UK two days before Ireland.
That is lockdown.

Ah right, so closing all schools public gatherings and telling people to work from home isn't "lockdown", good to know the definition.

How about this, Ireland took action that saved thousands of lives weeks before the UK did, this has led to the UK having at least 70,000 excess deaths due to incompetent governance throughout an epidemic and only partially redeemed itself by an effective vaccination program. This was despite the prime minister himself almost dying after shaking hands with patients who had a very infectious disease in an attempt by that prime minister to downplay the seriousness of the virus.

Melanchthon · 01-05-2021 10:24PM

astrofool wrote: »

Nope, Ireland went into lockdown first, did you not check the dates? We realised the danger and shut everything quickly on March 12th to contain the virus, our big mistake was allowing travel from the basket case UK over Christmas 2020 (along with sending them PPE expecting the UK to be a civilised neighbour and not hoard all their and EU vaccines by nationalising AstraZeneca).

Bojo was going full bore ignore until the cases, deaths and his own almost death forced a turnaround. He is a fully signed member of the incompetent at handling coronavirus club.

Once the vaccination glee wears off he'll be facing up to 70,000 excess deaths and friends and relatives blaming him for it.

I genuinely think by the end of this there is only going to be a 10-20% difference in deaths in the large western European countries excluding Germany (which did a lot of things right).

Borris and the UK screwed up badly at times but the people that bash that don't bash Tony holohan and the minister for health attending a indoor gathering of 500 people from 50 different countries or the Spanish government encouraging mass marches for international women's Day.

Shouldn't this thread be about Astra Zeneca / Oxford not an excuse for posters to complain about the Tories and "da Brits"

Wolf359f · 01-05-2021 10:31PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

I genuinely think by the end of this there is only going to be a 10-20% difference in deaths in the large western European countries excluding Germany (which did a lot of things right).

Borris and the UK screwed up badly at times but the people that bash that don't bash Tony holohan and the minister for health attending a indoor gathering of 500 people from 50 different countries or the Spanish government encouraging mass marches for international women's Day.

Shouldn't this thread be about Astra Zeneca / Oxford not an excuse for posters to complain about the Tories and "da Brits"

What was the indoor gathering the CMO & MOH attended?

On the thread, yeah it's wildly gone way off course.
In some eyes, AZ can do no wrong because it's an effective and safe vaccine.
That's never been the question, it's been about the absolute shoddy production quantities and deliveries. Playing the not for profit card doesn't absolve them either.

Melanchthon · 01-05-2021 10:58PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

What was the indoor gathering the CMO & MOH attended?

https://globalgapa.org/index.php/2020/03/27/gapc-2020-in-dublin-ireland/

https://gript.ie/harris-gapc-covid-19/

Gript can put people off so included the video that's most relevant to this where he is questioned about why he is attending the event

https://youtu.be/dmZydRIKhxM?t=709

Rest of your post is pretty reasonable point.

Anyway my relevant to the thread question. I presume there is on going population study of impact of the Indian variant on Astra Zeneca effectiveness but it hasn't been reported yet?

Since these questions tend to bring out the people that hate astra zeneca due to other political reasons and will say "good thing we are using Pfizer unlike those granny killing Tories" I will quote the Israelis. Note the underlined part

"The impression is that the Pfizer vaccine has efficacy against it, albeit a reduced efficacy," the ministry's director-general, Hezi Levy, told Kan public radio

quokula · 01-05-2021 11:24PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

https://globalgapa.org/index.php/2020/03/27/gapc-2020-in-dublin-ireland/

https://gript.ie/harris-gapc-covid-19/

Gript can put people off so included the video that's most relevant to this where he is questioned about why he is attending the event

https://youtu.be/dmZydRIKhxM?t=709

That's kind of clutching at straws - in hindsight we could of course have stopped all gatherings earlier but that was still the beginning of March, and no country on this side of the world had started taking such measures yet.

At that point in time Dublin Airport, like pretty much every airport on the planet, was acting at normal capacity which was about 100,000 passengers per day. The specific event in question, contrary to Gript's claim, was actually attended by 300 people. It is unclear how many were international travellers, but even if all 300 were, it was an utterly tiny number in the context of a world where absolutely everything was still open.

Wildly different to the UK government's continual failure to act for many weeks later, after facts had become much clearer and most other countries including Ireland had already begun to act decisively.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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