Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Strazdas · 30-04-2021 02:53PM

ddarcy wrote: »

I think people keep forgetting that ireland has ordered full doses for 10.3 million people. We were always going to not use it all. Its really down to deliveries, but Pfizer seems to be picking up anyways.

Plus the US has kind of hit the point where everyone that will get vaccinated has. So they’ve a lot of supplies to be handed out as well (realistically this will go to poorer nations/ harder hit countries). So there is a potential of more Pfizer/Moderna as both are for profit coming to Europe

Yes, people keep suggesting we are going to be left with many hundreds of thousands of unused J & J doses in late June and a slowed down rollout, as if it is an accepted fact and that the Govt have already publicly admitted it. They have admitted no such thing and seem quite relaxed about how the rollout is going.

The policy of vaccinating each eligible cohort with every vaccine going at the moment seems by far the most sensible one. The end of June is still a good bit away, they can start to think about that the nearer they get to it.

30-04-2021 02:57PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, people keep suggesting we are going to be left with many hundreds of thousands of unused J & J doses in late June and a slowed down rollout, as if it is an accepted fact and that the Govt have already publicly admitted it. They have admitted no such thing and seem quite relaxed about how the rollout is going.

The policy of vaccinating each eligible cohort with every vaccine going at the moment seems by far the most sensible one. The end of June is still a good bit away, they can start to think about that the nearer they get to it.

That is a terrible idea for planning a vaccine rollout of this scale.

SJFly · 30-04-2021 03:00PM

Strazdas wrote: »

All of the speculation about unused J & Js is coming from the media and on social media. The government and HSE don't seem overly bothered by this scenario : let's see how this pans out, they may have their reasons for believing it will not unfold this way.

It is speculation, based on our currently projected deliveries. If the only people that can use the vaccine have already been vaccinated when the bulk of the order arrives, then it can't be used. If this is in Q3, who cares. If this is in Q2 it will slow us down.
To be honest I hope you are right and that the HSE do know something we don't know. Lots of things could improve the situation, but based on current information it's creating challenges for the rollout.

seamus · 30-04-2021 03:01PM

There's a lot of heavy lifting to be done in the "if there are no other vaccines available" clause.

It might be as simple as burning through the other vaccines at the start of the week, and then everyone of whatever age that attends the MVC at the end of the week gets the J&J because that's all that's available.

stephenjmcd · 30-04-2021 03:02PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, people keep suggesting we are going to be left with many hundreds of thousands of unused J & J doses in late June and a slowed down rollout, as if it is an accepted fact and that the Govt have already publicly admitted it. They have admitted no such thing and seem quite relaxed about how the rollout is going.

The policy of vaccinating each eligible cohort with every vaccine going at the moment seems by far the most sensible one. The end of June is still a good bit away, they can start to think about that the nearer they get to it.

While I see where your coming from here, proper planning is planning in advance, not a cross the bridge when we come to it situation.

We have to plan based on the current advice, if NIAC advise changes and age restrictions drop again then great, however as things stand, there is no getting around that unless J&J is used only as advice currently stands, there will be a large number of 1 shot vaccines not used in this country and the alternative is pushing the vaccine program out a number of weeks, quite possibly well into August & September as for each dose left unused we require 2 doses of Pfizer or Moderna for example.

Now, the "unless there's no other vaccine" advice is wide open to interpretation and how that moves forward could play a large role. But this all needs to be planned for now, not in June

astrofool · 30-04-2021 03:03PM

snotboogie wrote: »

It is correct, all countries on the list are vaccine shots per 100 of the population, first and second dose inclusive. Its the standard measure used.

I thought (and could be completely wrong) that Italy was more prioritising first doses which is logistically easier and means less vaccine held back, thus they have a higher % overall but lower fully dosed % (or it was just a misread

). Ireland's fully dosed is ~11% by comparison.

plodder · 30-04-2021 03:15PM

seamus wrote: »

There's a lot of heavy lifting to be done in the "if there are no other vaccines available" clause.

It might be as simple as burning through the other vaccines at the start of the week, and then everyone of whatever age that attends the MVC at the end of the week gets the J&J because that's all that's available.

But, the NIAC advice isn't a blueprint for the vaccination campaign. It's just saying that particular cohorts should get specific vaccines when available and something different when not available. I really don't see the issue here.

Russman · 30-04-2021 03:20PM

plodder wrote: »

But, the NIAC advice isn't a blueprint for the vaccination campaign. It's just saying that particular cohorts should get specific vaccines when available and something different when not available. I really don't see the issue here.

Is the advice as simple and straightforward as that though ?
I thought it was a bit more nuanced and pointed, but maybe I took it up wrong.
I really doubt that there would be a situation where we could have a bit of "an Irish solution etc.," by booking out an MVC somewhere and on the day, saying "sorry, we've only got J&J here so you'll be getting that" - it would clearly be against the spirit of the NIAC advice - whether someone agrees or not with the advice.

plodder · 30-04-2021 03:25PM

Russman wrote: »

Is the advice as simple and straightforward as that though ?
I thought it was a bit more nuanced and pointed, but maybe I took it up wrong.
I really doubt that there would be a situation where we could have a bit of "an Irish solution etc.," by booking out an MVC somewhere and on the day, saying "sorry, we've only got J&J here so you'll be getting that" - it would clearly be against the spirit of the NIAC advice - whether someone agrees or not with the advice.

Here's what it says:

In general:

Any currently authorised COVID-19 vaccine can be given to adults of all ages, including those aged 70 and older.

Specifically in relation to Janssen:

As alternative vaccines are available, mRNA vaccines are recommended for those aged under 50 years including those with medical conditions with very high or high risk of severe COVID-19 disease.

In circumstances where a two-dose mRNA vaccination schedule is not a feasible alternative, COVID-19 vaccine Janssen® can be considered for those aged 18 – 49 years.

Maybe, you can quibble over "is not feasible", but I would say if not available at the time you are due to be vaccinated, then that is not feasible.

iamwhoiam · 30-04-2021 03:28PM

Tony Holohan just confirmed that the vaccine bonus will apply to Astra Zeneca four weeks after Dose 1 .

He was asked to confirm what was reported last night by The Journal and he confirmed it .

Some more detail on the ‘vaccine bonus’, with indoor visits permitted – without masks or social distancing – for those who are vaccinated:

From 10 May

fully vaccinated people can meet indoors with other fully vaccinated people as long as there are no more than three households present;
fully vaccinated people can meet indoors with unvaccinated people from a single household, provided that they are not at risk of severe illness.
This applies to:

persons who have received AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) – four weeks after dose 1;
persons who have received Janssen/Johnson & Johnson – two weeks after dose 1 (only dose);
persons who have received Pfizer – one week after dose 2;
persons who have received Moderna – two weeks after dose 2;
persons who have had a confirmed Covid-19 infection in the previous six months.
It will be welcome news for the 50-69-year-olds that they will not have to wait until after their second AstraZeneca dose – 12 weeks after the first dose – until they can meet indoors with loved ones.

CrowdedHouse · 30-04-2021 03:32PM

A fairly harmless bonus :rolleyes:

iamwhoiam · 30-04-2021 03:35PM

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

A fairly harmless bonus :rolleyes:

Not for me . I am delighted with it actually
It means I can meet up with friends and have coffee indoors on the couch and not wrapped in fleeces in the garden !

stephenjmcd · 30-04-2021 03:44PM

George Lee at the NPHET briefing trying to compare vaccines as has been done here for example.

He's been put in his place by Prof Nolan, Dr Glynn & the CMO.

Each have told him to stop comparing one against another, the trials were different, they're all highly effective and they expect real world impact to be similar for all

Strazdas · 30-04-2021 03:46PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

While I see where your coming from here, proper planning is planning in advance, not a cross the bridge when we come to it situation.

We have to plan based on the current advice, if NIAC advise changes and age restrictions drop again then great, however as things stand, there is no getting around that unless J&J is used only as advice currently stands, there will be a large number of 1 shot vaccines not used in this country and the alternative is pushing the vaccine program out a number of weeks, quite possibly well into August & September as for each dose left unused we require 2 doses of Pfizer or Moderna for example.

Now, the "unless there's no other vaccine" advice is wide open to interpretation and how that moves forward could play a large role. But this all needs to be planned for now, not in June

I'm guessing that they 'think' a change to the J & J advice might still be in play. At that point, its rollout will have been underway for many weeks in Europe and the US and they should have a much clearer idea just how safe or otherwise the vaccine is (it was pulled here for the under 50s based on the very limited early rollout and data in the US).

30-04-2021 03:47PM

seamus wrote: »

There's a lot of heavy lifting to be done in the "if there are no other vaccines available" clause.

It might be as simple as burning through the other vaccines at the start of the week, and then everyone of whatever age that attends the MVC at the end of the week gets the J&J because that's all that's available.

I would have thought it would be based on an unforeseen supply problem with the other vaccines. If you did the above you might end up with a lot of no shows on a Friday.

Russman · 30-04-2021 03:52PM

plodder wrote: »

Here's what it says:

In general:

Specifically in relation to Janssen:

Maybe, you can quibble over "is not feasible", but I would say if not available at the time you are due to be vaccinated, then that is not feasible.

Thanks for that I hadn't seen the exact wording.

Hmmm, I think it would be stretching it a bit to say if for example, a vaccination centre didn't have any Pfizer on a Wednesday, that it was covered by "not feasible". I'm not saying I agree with the NIAC advice or anything, but to me, its clearly directed at the so-called "hard to reach" communities, ie the travellers, Roma, homeless etc. Regardless of what the NIAC advice is, the HSE really shouldn't be seen to be playing silly buggers with the wording. Too much of our natural inclination here, when we see a rule, to think "how can I get round that ?" Purely IMO of course.

is_that_so · 30-04-2021 03:56PM

Russman wrote: »

Thanks for that I hadn't seen the exact wording.

Hmmm, I think it would be stretching it a bit to say if for example, a vaccination centre didn't have any Pfizer on a Wednesday, that it was covered by "not feasible". I'm not saying I agree with the NIAC advice or anything, but to me, its clearly directed at the so-called "hard to reach" communities, ie the travellers, Roma, homeless etc. Regardless of what the NIAC advice is, the HSE really shouldn't be seen to be playing silly buggers with the wording. Too much of our natural inclination here, when we see a rule, to think "how can I get round that ?" Purely IMO of course.

The HSE will make calls based on operational needs so you'd expect as many of the minority groups and the over 50s as they can to get J&J jabs, even if it takes them into July. Anything remaining will probably be treated in the same way they do leftovers and just put in arms.

duffman13 · 30-04-2021 03:59PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

George Lee at the NPHET briefing trying to compare vaccines as has been done here for example.

He's been put in his place by Prof Nolan, Dr Glynn & the CMO.

Each have told him to stop comparing one against another, the trials were different, they're all highly effective and they expect real world impact to be similar for all

At this stage George Lee needs to be put out to pasture. He's so poor in comparison to other journalists and is so obviously under prepared. Merchant of doom is apt for him. Hopefully those rebuttals see some airtime on the main news

plodder · 30-04-2021 04:06PM

Russman wrote: »

Thanks for that I hadn't seen the exact wording.

Hmmm, I think it would be stretching it a bit to say if for example, a vaccination centre didn't have any Pfizer on a Wednesday, that it was covered by "not feasible". I'm not saying I agree with the NIAC advice or anything, but to me, its clearly directed at the so-called "hard to reach" communities, ie the travellers, Roma, homeless etc. Regardless of what the NIAC advice is, the HSE really shouldn't be seen to be playing silly buggers with the wording. Too much of our natural inclination here, when we see a rule, to think "how can I get round that ?" Purely IMO of course.

Gosh, I think you are reading way too much into what NIAC are saying (as opposed to the HSE's actual vaccination plan, or the media reporting of it). Eg. the HSE may want to give J&J to the "hard to reach" communities, but not exclusively to them, and it's not even within NIAC's remit to be advising on operational matters like that.

If the priority is to get vaccines into arms as soon as they arrive here, and if supplies can't be predicted from week to week then I don't see much alternative but to use whatever is available week to week, with the caveat that if available, mRNA is prioritised to the younger cohorts. Though doing the younger groups in parallel with the 50-59s makes sense too.

Scoundrel · 30-04-2021 04:11PM

It really seems to be random how it's been allocated I know my 68 year old father registered on fist day he could heard nothing several younger friends of his registered after and have appointments and jabs in some cases? what's the point in registering by age when it's not being done by age?

PhilOssophy · 30-04-2021 04:20PM

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

A fairly harmless bonus :rolleyes:

Anything which brings this thing closer to an end is a bonus.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

George Lee at the NPHET briefing trying to compare vaccines as has been done here for example.

He's been put in his place by Prof Nolan, Dr Glynn & the CMO.

Each have told him to stop comparing one against another, the trials were different, they're all highly effective and they expect real world impact to be similar for all

FINALLY!!! Now will RTE ever show these experts in this field saying this instead of having the mis-guided merchants of doom in our communities going around telling all and sundry about how Pfizer is the good one!

duffman13 wrote: »

At this stage George Lee needs to be put out to pasture. He's so poor in comparison to other journalists and is so obviously under prepared. Merchant of doom is apt for him. Hopefully those rebuttals see some airtime on the main news

Funny I was only thinking - this time last year, RTE must have had every doctor/academic researcher/infectious disease expert on the news talking about how virulent this thing is, the importance of social distancing, hand-washing, etc. Fast forward a year, and we have a vaccine rollout on-going and they seem to have no interest in explaining the efficacy of all the vaccines, how they are all 100% effective against hospitalisation, serious illness and death, and that 1 in a million extreme side effects are similar to the odds of being in a car crash. They need to be shouting this message on every news/current affairs show/ad break/etc, but instead they are focusing on the rarest of the rare blood clots, restrictions being applied, etc and George Lee is having a field day.

I think they don't understand the magnitude of their role in causing vaccine hesitancy.

emrys · 30-04-2021 04:22PM

my brother (cohort 7) has GP appointment for vaccine for next Friday.

Skygord · 30-04-2021 04:51PM

I'm cohort 7 and have an appointment with the GP for the 11th May.

I got a call on Tuesday (27 April) for a last-minute jab but couldn't get there in time.

GP said next supplies to them will be in a fortnight, and gave me a slot.

Have to say the coordination of cohorts 4 & 7 has been messy - between GP's and Hospitals.

VG31 · 30-04-2021 04:53PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/vaccines-for-35-to-59-year-olds-to-start-in-june-fg-predicts-1.4552236

Vaccines for 35 to 59 year olds to start in June, FG predicts

Is this right? Under 60s will only start in June? It's hardly going to take the whole month of May to vacciante the 60-69s. That seems very slow.

Charles Babbage · 30-04-2021 04:55PM

Does anyone think that this is a bit off?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/vaccines-for-35-to-59-year-olds-to-start-in-june-fg-predicts-1.4552236

People aged between 35 and 59 are set to begin getting Covid-19 vaccinations in June but it will be July before younger people start to be inoculated, according to a Fine Gael projection of the rollout over the next three months

I would expect people below 60 to start in the second half of May, whether the 50-59 or the 40-59 as mooted elsewhere today. Likewise, I would expect people aged 16-35 to have started in June, even if not everyone was done.

edit:VG31 obviously thinks likewise!

ACitizenErased · 30-04-2021 04:56PM

The Taoiseach literally said yesterday the 50-59s is starting next week

PhoenixParker · 30-04-2021 04:57PM

VG31 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/vaccines-for-35-to-59-year-olds-to-start-in-june-fg-predicts-1.4552236

Vaccines for 35 to 59 year olds to start in June, FG predicts

Is this right? Under 60s will only start in June? It's hardly going to take the whole month of May to vacciante the 60-69s. That seems very slow.

The government themselves said today that 50-59 will start in about three weeks (registered next week, starting in 2 weeks).

Wolf359f · 30-04-2021 05:02PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Does anyone think that this is a bit off?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/vaccines-for-35-to-59-year-olds-to-start-in-june-fg-predicts-1.4552236

People aged between 35 and 59 are set to begin getting Covid-19 vaccinations in June but it will be July before younger people start to be inoculated, according to a Fine Gael projection of the rollout over the next three months

I would expect people below 60 to start in the second half of May, whether the 50-59 or the 40-59 as mooted elsewhere today. Likewise, I would expect people aged 16-35 to have started in June, even if not everyone was done.

edit:VG31 obviously thinks likewise!

Cohort 1,2 & 3 will be needing their second doses next month. Cohort 4 needs to be finished and their second doses will be starting next month also. Cohort 5 needs to be finished and cohort 7 started, so a rough calculation is about 1.3mil doses to get done before they move on to the under 60's.

revelman · 30-04-2021 05:11PM

What was the AZ shipment that the article talks about? Was it on target or did it exceed the target for the delivery this week? Sorry, IT behind a paywall for me.

stephenjmcd · 30-04-2021 05:21PM

revelman wrote: »

What was the AZ shipment that the article talks about? Was it on target or did it exceed the target for the delivery this week? Sorry, IT behind a paywall for me.

IT is a bit strange. In one browser paywall in the next none.

Anyway it was 165,000 AZ arrived in today.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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