Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

OwlsZat wrote: »

This.

From a herd immunity perspective there is an argument for unlocking once the over 50s+ etc., have there vaccines. Once the risk of serious disease / death has passed. Generating the antibody response in younger folk through passing it about will work just as well in the long run. It's a matter of when the right time to do it is.

Opening up the country with say 50% vaccinated v 40% vaccinated would have a massive impact of the spread of the virus. While only a small number of younger people become seriously ill, a small percentage of a very big number could still be devastating. On the other hand, there's no doubt the over 50s are at greater risk. This is a really tough decision and there is no easy answer.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Are people finally starting to realise what a bad call NIAC made re J&J?
There is a desperate need to re-visit this decision and make this available for all age groups. Then, the 40-50's can be done in parallel with the 50-60's (I don't have the numbers re each vaccine but this makes sense to me).
We will absolutely blitz through our population once this decision is re-visited.

In fairness, NIAC made an inconvenient call, doesn't mean it was a bad one. Other countries have gone both ways with their J&J decision - we'll never know who was right. I think we've ordered something like 2m J&J in total, so we'll be binning/donating a heap of it anyway, and plenty of the other shots too as the EU have ordered so much extra cover.

Russman wrote: »

In fairness, NIAC made an inconvenient call, doesn't mean it was a bad one. Other countries have gone both ways with their J&J decision - we'll never know who was right. I think we've ordered something like 2m J&J in total, so we'll be binning/donating a heap of it anyway, and plenty of the other shots too as the EU have ordered so much extra cover.

I get that alright but in terms of the roll-out, they are going to have to re-visit the decision and undoubtedly remove the age limit. To me, when the FDA and EMA didn't put in an age limit, I don't see why we did.

Ll31 wrote: »

The problem is, it's easy say the over 50s will only be delayed by 2 to 3 weeks, but no one knows if that's the case. So again, deliberately delay vaccinating people at most risk, go against medical advice, or don't. But don't pretend the delay to the more vulnerable group is a cast iron guarantee to be only 2 or 3 weeks.

This is true, but if J&J is delayed you can swap so the remaining 50+ to mRNA and pause the roll out to 30s.

SJFly wrote: »

Opening up the country with say 50% vaccinated v 40% vaccinated would have a massive impact of the spread of the virus. While only a small number of younger people become seriously ill, a small percentage of a very big number could still be devastating. On the other hand, there's no doubt the over 50s are at greater risk. This is a really tough decision and there is no easy answer.

With every 10 years the serious affect risk drops 4 fold. At 30 years old a women is at higher risk of developing blood clots than dying from the disease. People in their 30s aren't concerned for opening up again and the spread of the disease (which is already spread plenty don't you worry). So I guess your saying 40-50 years are.

Didn't the J&J jab have other authorizations. Like where there was a chance the 2nd dose wouldn't be gotten. Remote areas, homeless etc, maybe they will just let people sign up themselves if they believe they wouldn't get the 2nd dose for whatever reason and hope to distribute that way.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I get that alright but in terms of the roll-out, they are going to have to re-visit the decision and undoubtedly remove the age limit. To me, when the FDA and EMA didn't put in an age limit, I don't see why we did.

I know what you're saying aright, and it may play out that way.
But as a non medical person, I think there must have been something in the data that lead to certain countries restricting one or both of AZ & J&J. None of them did it for no good reason and I guess different countries' versions of NIAC will have different interpretations or tolerances of risk. I get that FDA & EMA approved them, but I think the EMA also say its up to the individual countries to decide whatever rules apply. Its a big inconvenience, no doubt, for our roll out, and if the advice changes then grand, but I wouldn't like them to be seen to change it for reasons of expediency.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nothing can open fully until Cohort 4 and 7 are done . They have done nothing to sort out the mess that is happening . People falling between GPs and clinics . People cant get answers from either whether they will be done . This has to addressed first and sorted very quickly now

https://www.thejournal.ie/as-restrictions-ease-how-is-irelands-vaccine-rollout-going-5423452-Apr2021/

Looks like Cohort 4 is underway.

Russman wrote: »

I know what you're saying aright, and it may play out that way.
But as a non medical person, I think there must have been something in the data that lead to certain countries restricting one or both of AZ & J&J. None of them did it for no good reason and I guess different countries' versions of NIAC will have different interpretations or tolerances of risk. I get that FDA & EMA approved them, but I think the EMA also say its up to the individual countries to decide whatever rules apply. Its a big inconvenience, no doubt, for our roll out, and if the advice changes then grand, but I wouldn't like them to be seen to change it for reasons of expediency.

I get that alright, but then why don't NIAC/Holohan/Donnelly come out and say what that was, or why they know better than either of the others?

Supercell wrote: »

Said the person in their 40's proving my point exactly. Also it's not just the clotting, it's the 12-16 weeks between doses as well.

Proving what point?

Ll31 wrote: »

So still delay the more vulnerable group, against medical advice, right.

There are plenty of 50+ who would take issue at you calling them vulnerable! Some are in better health than people half their age.

OwlsZat wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/as-restrictions-ease-how-is-irelands-vaccine-rollout-going-5423452-Apr2021/

Looks like Cohort 4 is underway.

Loads of Cohort 4 being done,,me included on Monday..friend today and so on,,

Great to see,,

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I get that alright, but then why don't NIAC/Holohan/Donnelly come out and say what that was, or why they know better than either of the others?

But they're not saying they know better, they're effectively saying they have a different take on whatever the data is. Look at the range of age limits that different western countries have put on AZ, from none at all, to 20 to 65 to a total ban, and other numbers in between, all based on the same data. Presumably these are all competent national bodies that have come to various different conclusions. There's obviously a huge amount of judgement involved and I'm not saying NIAC are "right".

I've no issue if they came out and said exactly what it was, but really, would you want a million and one armchair/facebook experts telling them why they're wrong ?

I hope not but I think the politics of it will mean we'll ultimately end up missing the June target by a few weeks & having unused J&J shots come June /July. Government will "blame" the deliveries and the medical advice and most will accept it.

ceegee wrote: »

If they've made it to their 50s without understanding the concept of a group then they can probably be classed as intellectually vulnerable.

I guess there's a semblance of a joke in there somewhere but don't give up the day job, ever!

emrys wrote: »

Paul Reid was interviewed this morning on Newstalk (just after 8AM) quite clear. Portal for 50 somethings opens next week, expect to get an appointment within two weeks of registering, all 4 vaccines to be used.

Did he he actually say all four vaccines? The Newstalk website says they are finalising plans.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/vaccination-of-over-50s-set-to-get-underway-in-next-two-to-three-weeks-reid-1187880

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Good news for you . Did the GP do it ?

Getting it on Monday frm GP...had to contact GP and plead my case, despite consultant putting me in Cohort4...
Pays to badger your GP..