Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

charlie14 · 29-04-2021 05:36PM

timmyntc wrote: »

People who proposed the very same measures as the govt have now based on the same data were told it was too risky and would get out of control - yet now its totally okay and science backed?

I have no idea where you got that from. It certainly wasn`t from me or anyone else I have seen who posted here who believed re-opening should be based on the data from the the U.K. staged re-opening based on vaccination levels.

What I have seen is myself and others who believed that was the appropriate course to follow telling quite a few here we believed that just opening up everything at once based on just low numbers and no data on doing so at low levels of vaccination was not just risky, but foolhardy.

In other words the complete opposite of what you are saying

rolling boh · 29-04-2021 05:39PM

Don't worry there will be a few experts to point out any worrying trends and advise caution so another lockdown can't be ruled out hopefully they will be sidelined this time round .

Leftwaffe · 29-04-2021 05:47PM

rolling boh wrote: »

Don't worry there will be a few experts to point out any worrying trends and advise caution so another lockdown can't be ruled out hopefully they will be sidelined this time round .

I’m firmly believe there will be another lockdown. Probably October. You’ll see that Martin won’t make any guarantees at 6pm. I was called ridiculous here this morning for it but I think it’s naive to think there won’t be one.

Edit: Not trying to be negative here. I hope I am wrong.

Graham · 29-04-2021 05:51PM

Leftwaffe wrote: »

I’m firmly believe there will be another lockdown. Probably October. You’ll see that Martin won’t make any guarantees at 6pm. I was called ridiculous here this morning for it but I think it’s naive to think there won’t be one.

It wouldn't be particularly sensible to guarantee anything at this stage unless you possess a crystal ball.

Personally I'm hoping we're starting from a sufficiently low base in terms of case numbers that the vaccination program will keep a lid on the inevitable rise in numbers as we reopen things over the coming weeks/months.

ArthurDayne · 29-04-2021 05:59PM

gozunda wrote: »

Well that's good for you. But the fact is your ideas on the Governments Strategy don't stand up to scrutiny or even the fact the strategy has also changed over time. Something you seen unaware of.

And yes I read that correctly. The poster had detailed that both minimisation and managment were involved which you identified as being somehow contradictory. Even though that's clearly not the case.

I'll leave you at it.

Right, if the policy was minimisation, what was the threshold to which it was being minimised?

We know it wasn’t to the extent of elimination / Zero Covid, and we know it wasn’t to the extent of “as low as possible” because (a) if it were, the measures would have been even stricter and / or violation penalties harsher (b) people were still being allowed to enter the country without strict measures like mandatory hotel quarantine and (c) there were reopenings which invariably involved the tolerance of a rise in cases.

More evidence? There were 370 new cases reported yesterday and 13 deaths, and the government is pushing forward reopening despite the fact that it probably means more cases and at least some more deaths. So to say that the strategy is about minimisation is complete nonsense — there is clearly a tolerance threshold for allowing Covid infections to spread to at least some extent (just as there has been for a year because of the non-pursuit of Zero Covid and periodic reopening of the country).

What you and Charlie are pushing here is an entirely self-serving fantasy argument where “minimising Covid” just magically means whatever you need it to mean on a given day. That way you can justify pretty much any restriction without having to give any thought about whether it is proportionate.

So answer the question, when the government was pursuing a strategy of minimising Covid, what threshold was considered tolerable?

charlie14 · 29-04-2021 06:00PM

Leftwaffe wrote: »

I’m firmly believe there will be another lockdown. Probably October. You’ll see that Martin won’t make any guarantees at 6pm. I was called ridiculous here this morning for it but I think it’s naive to think there won’t be one.

Edit: Not trying to be negative here. I hope I am wrong.

I suppose there is very little that is impossible, but unless there is something from this virus we have not seen to date I would doubt it.
These vaccines have very high efficacy. Especially for serious symptoms and deaths and by October everyone that wants or can avail of a vaccine will have been vaccinated.

Itssoeasy · 29-04-2021 06:04PM

Just listening to rte radio and Stephen Donnelly has said the dates for reopening in June is conditional on a good may.

29-04-2021 06:05PM

Martin already dishing out the paranoia:

"We have to monitor the issue closely of dangerous new variants"

hynesie08 · 29-04-2021 06:06PM

It's amazing how much better a speaker Michael is when it's good news.

_Kaiser_ · 29-04-2021 06:08PM

He has some hope of people obeying these limits on visits and such. Still far too cautious and slow.

JRant · 29-04-2021 06:09PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

He has some hope of people obeying these limits on visits and such. Still far too cautious and slow.

I had a little chuckle at that one. Completely detached from reality.

Itssoeasy · 29-04-2021 06:11PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

He has some hope of people obeying these limits on visits and such. Still far too cautious and slow.

I’d say he and the government aren’t over the shock of Christmas cock up.

_Kaiser_ · 29-04-2021 06:12PM

He really is the John Major of Ireland (absent the token Irish bit at the end here)

greensausage · 29-04-2021 06:13PM

Any sign of indoor pints??

29-04-2021 06:13PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

It's amazing how much better a speaker Michael is when it's good news.

He's been studying videos of Joe Biden.

_Kaiser_ · 29-04-2021 06:13PM

greensausage wrote: »

Any sign of indoor pints??

Didn't hear anything unless I missed it. Prresume that'll be the May into June update?

PTH2009 · 29-04-2021 06:14PM

Nicely positive

Jesus he's getting corny now

29-04-2021 06:14PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

He has some hope of people obeying these limits on visits and such. Still far too cautious and slow.

He qualified that the June reopening phase of outdoor hospitality is dependent upon May being successful. Which offers them licence to keep pushing it back like last summer. And not a single passing mention of indoor. Big smirk on his face, what a mediocre speaker and man.

Necro · 29-04-2021 06:14PM

greensausage wrote: »

Any sign of indoor pints??

July I reckon. Good few things on the agenda for reopening from 5th July

29-04-2021 06:14PM

greensausage wrote: »

Any sign of indoor pints??

No mention yet.

greensausage · 29-04-2021 06:15PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Didn't hear anything unless I missed it. Prresume that'll be the May into June update?

Yea must be, its just been ignored for now

JRant · 29-04-2021 06:15PM

So we are slowly opening up but we seem to be opening up with quite severe restrictions on numbers etc. When are we going to start opening up properly? What is the bloody long term plan here?

DellyBelly · 29-04-2021 06:15PM

Very positive. Fantastic news.. Its getting better not long till we get back to normality

Allinall · 29-04-2021 06:15PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

He has some hope of people obeying these limits on visits and such. Still far too cautious and slow.

There’s a lot more socially responsible people than you might like to think.

_Kaiser_ · 29-04-2021 06:16PM

JRant wrote: »

So we are slowly opening up but we seem to be opening up with quite severe restrictions on numbers etc. When are we going to start opening up properly? What is the bloody long term plan here?

Hold firm?

Itssoeasy · 29-04-2021 06:16PM

greensausage wrote: »

Any sign of indoor pints??

Nope. Outdoor pints maybe but our weather being what it is, it’ll be pints in warm rain maybe.

_Kaiser_ · 29-04-2021 06:18PM

Can we put George Lee out to pasture..... Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!! :rolleyes:

gozunda · 29-04-2021 06:18PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Right, if the policy was minimisation, what was the threshold to which it was being minimised? We know it wasn’t to the extent of elimination / Zero Covid, and we know it wasn’t to the extent of “as low as possible” because (a) if it were, the measures would have been even stricter and / or violation penalties harsher (b) people were still being allowed to enter the country without strict measures like mandatory hotel quarantine and (c) there were reopenings which invariably involved the tolerance of a rise in cases.

More evidence? There were 370 new cases reported yesterday and 13 deaths, and the government is pushing forward reopening despite the fact that it probably means more cases and at least some more deaths. So to say that the strategy is about minimisation is complete nonsense — there is clearly a tolerance threshold for allowing Covid infections to spread (just as there has been for a year because of the non-pursuit of Zero Covid and periodic reopening of the country). What you and Charlie are pushing here is an entirely self-serving fantasy argument where “minimising Covid” just magically means whatever you need it to mean on a given day. That way you can justify pretty much any restriction without having to give any thought about whether it is proportionate.

So answer the question, when the government was pursuing a strategy of minimising Covid, what threshold was considered tolerable?

Nope. You really need to stop trying to prove so many things that you end up disproving them all instead.

And yes the policy has been to minimise the rate of infection. We clearly can't do zero covid due to a range of factors already much discussed in this thread.

But what we can do and have done is minimise / keep down the rate of infection. And we can clearly see that policy has worked as overall we have had a low infection rate and deaths compared to other countries.
Could we ever reduce those figures to zeo? I somehow doubt it. You obviously think otherwise. As to your idea of a "tolerable threshold"? Why do you believe that somehow can be measured?

Do the restrictions to date justify where we are atm ? I believe they do. The current roll back of restrictions has been only made possible by our current low rate of infection but more importantly something new which you are oddly ignoring - vaccination.

And thats where we are.

Necro · 29-04-2021 06:18PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Can we put George Lee out to pasture..... Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!! :rolleyes:

Tbf, they didn't keep him on long so maybe, just maybe they're reading the room correctly :pac:

py2006 · 29-04-2021 06:18PM

So hotels can't serve food or drink for a week were it will be outdoors only then.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings