Second hand tractors are gone expensive

jd_12345 · 25-04-2021 8:04pm

tanko wrote: »

The price of tractors only seems mad now because people didn't realise how cheap they were for so long.

It's funny, people will pay thirty grand for some scrap heap of a new car that's worth feck all after seven or eight years yet seem to think paying thirty grand for a tractor which probably be worth the same money in ten years is mad.

Exactly 100%! The argument that farmers want less tech. There are basic models on the market but they don’t sell- dual power gearboxes are still available last time I checked on t6/ maxxum ranges but the take isn’t there. Even brands like tumosan and armatrac which offer supposedly straight forward tractors aren’t taking over the world is there was that much of a demand for simple tractors. These “new complicated” gearboxes and mod cons are much appreciated when speaking long hours in the cab everyday. People that complain about tractors not being simple enough aren’t buying enough new tractors and so they dictates what’s available second hand.
Looking online over in the UK there British seem to love putting tractors on small tyres like 460s or 480s on the back with 50k gearboxes and front and cab susp.

straight · 27-04-2021 11:23am

Whats the best way to get finance on a second hand tractor? I usually use cash flow but with the price of tractors now I might pay half and finance half over 5 years or something like that. What are the APR's like

Donald Trump · 27-04-2021 11:38am

jd_12345 wrote: »

Exactly 100%! The argument that farmers want less tech. There are basic models on the market but they don’t sell- dual power gearboxes are still available last time I checked on t6/ maxxum ranges but the take isn’t there. Even brands like tumosan and armatrac which offer supposedly straight forward tractors aren’t taking over the world is there was that much of a demand for simple tractors. These “new complicated” gearboxes and mod cons are much appreciated when speaking long hours in the cab everyday. People that complain about tractors not being simple enough aren’t buying enough new tractors and so they dictates what’s available second hand.
Looking online over in the UK there British seem to love putting tractors on small tyres like 460s or 480s on the back with 50k gearboxes and front and cab susp.

Well I think that some of the ignoring of the tumosans etc. is just that you know they will likely lose value, and that they aren't trusted as much as more established brands. All machines will lose value of course, and people might be blinded by the fact that a machine might only be worth X in 10 years rather than working out how much it loses. So they might think of an 80k yoke dropping to 60k as not losing much, but a 40k yoke dropping to 20k as one losing half its value. Even though it is the same nominal amount.

There are plenty who would gladly like the option of a less-tech option in a major brand. And some of the major brands do provide these options - especially on stockmen type machines.

Welding Rod · 27-04-2021 11:43am

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well I think that some of the ignoring of the tumosans etc. is just that you know they will likely lose value, and that they aren't trusted as much as more established brands. All machines will lose value of course, and people might be blinded by the fact that a machine might only be worth X in 10 years rather than working out how much it loses. So they might think of an 80k yoke dropping to 60k as not losing much, but a 40k yoke dropping to 20k as one losing half its value. Even though it is the same nominal amount.

There are plenty who would gladly like the option of a less-tech option in a major brand. And some of the major brands do provide these options - especially on stockmen type machines.

But the major brand lower tech options, very often aren’t major brand, but some minor brand dressed up in major brand skin and decals.

Mad_maxx · 27-04-2021 1:10pm

butting in again here but notice the popularity of the Dacia in the car market ? , budget option built in less developed country using old tech yet nothing especially wrong with the product and very good value

presumably the likes of Tumosan are ok for what they are ?

perhaps farmers simply dont want to be seen driving an untrendy brand ?

Donald Trump · 27-04-2021 1:13pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

But the major brand lower tech options, very often aren’t major brand, but some minor brand dressed up in major brand skin and decals.

Well they are usually part of the same family though. As in the same parent company owns them.

Donald Trump · 27-04-2021 1:19pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

butting in again here but notice the popularity of the Dacia in the car market ? , budget option built in less developed country using old tech yet nothing especially wrong with the product and very good value

presumably the likes of Tumosan are ok for what they are ?

perhaps farmers simply dont want to be seen driving an untrendy brand ?

Fellas might also be worried about getting parts or services in the longer term

I wonder what the resale is like on them? Seems to be a few places with them new. I don't see prices for secondhand ones.

Here is one for example. https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/2014-tumosan-8105-with-loader/25389721?campaign=14 . It even has racial tyres

Morris Moss · 27-04-2021 1:33pm

Valtra, Deutz, New Holland, John Deere etc.. all do basic tractors, but theirs no guarantee they'll be anymore more reliable than the fancier machine.

Morris Moss · 27-04-2021 1:36pm

straight wrote: »

Whats the best way to get finance on a second hand tractor? I usually use cash flow but with the price of tractors now I might pay half and finance half over 5 years or something like that. What are the APR's like

Generally through the dealer is the handiest, for a new tractor a good few do 0% finance, not sure about second hand really.

straight · 27-04-2021 2:24pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well I think that some of the ignoring of the tumosans etc. is just that you know they will likely lose value, and that they aren't trusted as much as more established brands. All machines will lose value of course, and people might be blinded by the fact that a machine might only be worth X in 10 years rather than working out how much it loses. So they might think of an 80k yoke dropping to 60k as not losing much, but a 40k yoke dropping to 20k as one losing half its value. Even though it is the same nominal amount.

There are plenty who would gladly like the option of a less-tech option in a major brand. And some of the major brands do provide these options - especially on stockmen type machines.

I know what you mean but if you followed the second hand tractor market for the past 12 months you would see that tractors are rising in price and not depreciating.

Donald Trump · 27-04-2021 2:33pm

straight wrote: »

I know what you mean but if you followed the second hand tractor market for the past 12 months you would see that tractors are rising in price and not depreciating.

Yeah they have been of course. But when you buy them, you expect them to depreciate. You make the decision based off that.

When you go to trade it in, all else equal, you'll still have a higher trade in value on the better recognised brand.

The other ones do have a place and a use though. I'm just saying why some people might avoid them

Grueller · 27-04-2021 2:56pm

straight wrote: »

Whats the best way to get finance on a second hand tractor? I usually use cash flow but with the price of tractors now I might pay half and finance half over 5 years or something like that. What are the APR's like

Straight, before you pull the trigger on a second hand machine price a new one.
I was looking at a second hand Case Maxxum 115 in from the UK, 2 years old, 2200 hours, case (stoll) loader. She was costing €67,500.

The father convinced me to price new. The equivalent new one could be bought at €81,000 after a bit of haggling.

A friend priced a new NH T6.125s with a quicke Q5m loader in NH blue with electronic joystick for €83,000.

When it was trashed out the payment on the brand new tractors had a 2 year 0% interest period built into the rate. That left the payment on the brand new one significantly lower than the second hand tractor. That happened because the new machine can be financed over 7 years while the 2nd hand had to be paid in 5 years.

I decided to go for the NH T6.125S and quicke loader.

Mooooo · 27-04-2021 2:58pm

Grueller wrote: »

Straight, before you pull the trigger on a second hand machine price a new one.
I was looking at a second hand Case Maxxum 115 in from the UK, 2 years old, 2200 hours, case (stoll) loader. She was costing €67,500.

The father convinced me to price new. The equivalent new one could be bought at €81,000 after a bit of haggling.

A friend priced a new NH T6.125s with a quicke Q5m loader in NH blue with electronic joystick for €83,000.

When it was trashed out the payment on the brand new tractors had a 2 year 0% interest period built into the rate. That left the payment on the brand new one significantly lower than the second hand tractor. That happened because the new machine can be financed over 7 years while the 2nd hand had to be paid in 5 years.

I decided to go for the NH T6.125S and quicke loader.

Do those packages require a large deposit then Grueller, if you don't mind me asking?

Grueller · 27-04-2021 3:01pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Do those packages require a large deposit then Grueller, if you don't mind me asking?

€10k minimum Mooooo. Any trade in at all should give you that. Finance is done through DLL finance.

lakill Farm · 27-04-2021 3:38pm

straight wrote: »

Whats the best way to get finance on a second hand tractor? I usually use cash flow but with the price of tractors now I might pay half and finance half over 5 years or something like that. What are the APR's like

From 4.5-7.5% APR would be the run of it with minimum 10% deposit/Trade in

Mooooo · 27-04-2021 5:23pm

What sized shear grab would those tractor loaders handle? I take it two silage bales out that far would put em under pressure?

jaymla627 · 27-04-2021 6:01pm

Mooooo wrote: »

What sized shear grab would those tractor loaders handle? I take it two silage bales out that far would put em under pressure?

Had a five foot prodigy on a t6140 tractor handles it perfect but it’s very hard on loader you need a serious lump of a loader if doing a lot of work, the standard stoll loader on the t6 wasn’t up to it at all

straight · 27-04-2021 7:30pm

Grueller wrote: »

Straight, before you pull the trigger on a second hand machine price a new one.
I was looking at a second hand Case Maxxum 115 in from the UK, 2 years old, 2200 hours, case (stoll) loader. She was costing €67,500.

The father convinced me to price new. The equivalent new one could be bought at €81,000 after a bit of haggling.

A friend priced a new NH T6.125s with a quicke Q5m loader in NH blue with electronic joystick for €83,000.

When it was trashed out the payment on the brand new tractors had a 2 year 0% interest period built into the rate. That left the payment on the brand new one significantly lower than the second hand tractor. That happened because the new machine can be financed over 7 years while the 2nd hand had to be paid in 5 years.

I decided to go for the NH T6.125S and quicke loader.

Best of luck with it. I'm buying straight out (no trade in) and I can't believe some of the prices I get quoted. Had a bad day of ringing around today. Am looking at 6m john deeres now but its 60-70k for a 7 year old tractor with 5000 hours. Thats as good as new for me but I can't get over the fact that my father bought 2 john deeres over the years for 25-30k for 10 year old tractors and now they are crazy money. I'd say going new makes sense alright but it might be a bridge too far for me at the moment. I'm new to farming so need a mower, vacuum tank, and a few other bits to go with it. Also wanna buy an outside block of land for heifers/silage.

Who2 · 27-04-2021 7:35pm

Grueller wrote: »

Straight, before you pull the trigger on a second hand machine price a new one.
I was looking at a second hand Case Maxxum 115 in from the UK, 2 years old, 2200 hours, case (stoll) loader. She was costing €67,500.

The father convinced me to price new. The equivalent new one could be bought at €81,000 after a bit of haggling.

A friend priced a new NH T6.125s with a quicke Q5m loader in NH blue with electronic joystick for €83,000.

When it was trashed out the payment on the brand new tractors had a 2 year 0% interest period built into the rate. That left the payment on the brand new one significantly lower than the second hand tractor. That happened because the new machine can be financed over 7 years while the 2nd hand had to be paid in 5 years.

I decided to go for the NH T6.125S and quicke loader.

Was that long ago? I’ve been pricing around and I’m being quoted a nice bit along with those prices. With quicke loaders.

Grueller · 27-04-2021 8:04pm

Who2 wrote: »

Was that long ago? I’ve been pricing around and I’m being quoted a nice bit along with those prices. With quicke loaders.

Ordered in October delivered in February. I believe that the prices could be up by near on €10k now with the move from tier 4b to tier 5 emissions technology plus brexit plus covid plus any other excuse they can think of. I also bought it during the 21% VAT window which knocked off circa €1500.

27-04-2021 8:05pm

straight wrote: »

Best of luck with it. I'm buying straight out (no trade in) and I can't believe some of the prices I get quoted. Had a bad day of ringing around today. Am looking at 6m john deeres now but its 60-70k for a 7 year old tractor with 5000 hours. Thats as good as new for me but I can't get over the fact that my father bought 2 john deeres over the years for 25-30k for 10 year old tractors and now they are crazy money. I'd say going new makes sense alright but it might be a bridge too far for me at the moment. I'm new to farming so need a mower, vacuum tank, and a few other bits to go with it. Also wanna buy an outside block of land for heifers/silage.

Good luck trying to deal with a Jd dealer at the moment. They’re selling plenty these times and have no reason to offer any discount. There seems to be plenty of farmers happy to pay €100,000 for a 120hp autoquad with loader . I priced the 120m command quad with loader €112000 . A light short tractor that would lift a back wheel if you braked with a bale in front. Left it to them

Bass Reeves · 27-04-2021 10:41pm

straight wrote: »

Best of luck with it. I'm buying straight out (no trade in) and I can't believe some of the prices I get quoted. Had a bad day of ringing around today. Am looking at 6m john deeres now but its 60-70k for a 7 year old tractor with 5000 hours. Thats as good as new for me but I can't get over the fact that my father bought 2 john deeres over the years for 25-30k for 10 year old tractors and now they are crazy money. I'd say going new makes sense alright but it might be a bridge too far for me at the moment. I'm new to farming so need a mower, vacuum tank, and a few other bits to go with it. Also wanna buy an outside block of land for heifers/silage.

s answer is a smaller older tractor and contract most of the work out. this is especially true if you are paying labour for anything else. When you add machinery to the price of a tractor and the hours involved you would be better off getting a contractor in.

I would definately consider going down tis road for 2-3 years or maybe more. We have been here before with crazy tractor and machinery prices. It nearly always cyclical. Lots of fancy tractors bought over the last 2-4 years as the economy recovered that will be coming on stream within in 2-3 years time as lads either finish making payments. They then will trade them in.

Nothing cures high pricres like high prices

maidhc · 27-04-2021 11:20pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

s answer is a smaller older tractor and contract most of the work out. this is especially true if you are paying labour for anything else. When you add machinery to the price of a tractor and the hours involved you would be better off getting a contractor in.

You can do everything with an old machine to be honest if you are doing handy hours. My ts115 was bought in 2000 new. It has 6k hours up. I’m 39. It was bought when I was 18. I have loader so it really only works during the summer.

Those tractors seem to do 20k plus without major work. It will have 14k hours up when I turn 65, I’ll be dead by the time it dies . That is terrifying.

Bass Reeves · 27-04-2021 11:53pm

maidhc wrote: »

You can do everything with an old machine to be honest if you are doing handy hours. My ts115 was bought in 2000 new. It has 6k hours up. I’m 39. It was bought when I was 18. I have loader so it really only works during the summer.

Those tractors seem to do 20k plus without major work. It will have 14k hours up when I turn 65, I’ll be dead by the time it dies . That is terrifying.

The question is it feasible to spend maybe 80-100k on a new tractor to do that kind of work. Repayments on an 80k machine would be 12-12.5k/ year for 7 years. Even a cheaper machine of it was available at say 50k could cost
Over 7.5k/ years for 7 years. That before you add maintenance costs or a pin on the tow bar or an implement on the 3 point linkage

maidhc · 28-04-2021 1:36am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The question is it feasible to spend maybe 80-100k on a new tractor to do that kind of work. Repayments on an 80k machine would be 12-12.5k/ year for 7 years. Even a cheaper machine of it was available at say 50k could cost
Over 7.5k/ years for 7 years. That before you add maintenance costs or a pin on the tow bar or an implement on the 3 point linkage

The NH cost the equivalent of €50k when new. It’s worth €30k now. That is the equivalent of €1k depreciation per annum. It was written off as an expense by my father, and a second time when I purchased it in the context of the farm transfer. In real terms it has cost zero.

Yet It has put out 20 years of slurry, baled 20 years of silage and put out 20 years of fertiliser and it’s still like a new tractor.

Maintenance costs have been 2x front tyres, 2x batteries, a few radios, a bonnet respray, oil and filters, total cost under 5k.

I can’t say if the figure’s work out the same for a new tractor now, but historically tractors have not depreciated quickly and can do big hours before needing surgery.

Bass Reeves · 28-04-2021 7:35am

maidhc wrote: »

The NH cost the equivalent of €50k when new. It’s worth €30k now. That is the equivalent of €1k depreciation per annum. It was written off as an expense by my father, and a second time when I purchased it in the context of the farm transfer. In real terms it has cost zero.

Yet It has put out 20 years of slurry, baled 20 years of silage and put out 20 years of fertiliser and it’s still like a new tractor.

Maintenance costs have been 2x front tyres, 2x batteries, a few radios, a bonnet respray, oil and filters, total cost under 5k.

I can’t say if the figure’s work out the same for a new tractor now, but historically tractors have not depreciated quickly and can do big hours before needing surgery.

I think very few beef farms would commit to that spend at present even if they could afford it. The tractor is only one half of the equation. Within ten years s slurry will probably all be dribble bar or injection systems and you still need to hire or buy an agitator. Add in a mower and baler if you want to make silage. At present second hand tractors and a lot of machinery have strong values. This is cyclical. 3-5 years ago that tractor was valued at maybe 25k, I remember in 2010/2011 a neighbour buying a tractor that cost 56k new in 2006 for 22k it was a NH do not know the model and had no loader.

Last year I paid 2.5k for silage, 1.6k for slurry. That 4.1k would not make the colour of the cost of the repayments on a new.modern tractor. A straight 115hp tractor 20 years probably dose not compare with a modern one of similar HP. You probably need to be 150+HP to be comparable.

Double the size of the beef farm and costs could be kept below 6-7k/ year. Even on dairy farms labour is getting fairly expensive. A full time labour unit is probably costing 40k+/year at present putting it completely through the books. On a weekly basis it's 800/week.

With present machinery and tractor prices I definitely consider contracting to see what way things pan out for a few years

Mooooo · 28-04-2021 8:47am

I think it was K.G said it, if you have the time to do the the job you may not need the gear and if you have the work you may not have time to do it.
Obviously having a tractor is different as most farms need some form of one and it comes back then the question of the thread, how second hand ones are expensive, so much so that over the lifetime a new one may be more cost effective even. Talking to the accountant last year of changing due to ongoing maintenance costs and she was saying plenty of clients have spent 20/ 30k to move up the years, but maintenance costs didn't decrease and they had repayments with them then. Not many people change tractors when the ones they have are going well, they are generally done for a reason unless it's the 5 yr old ones contractor etc use who change when out of warranty or every 5 yr regardless

Morris Moss · 28-04-2021 9:30am

Mooooo wrote: »

I think it was K.G said it, if you have the time to do the the job you may not need the gear and if you have the work you may not have time to do it.
Obviously having a tractor is different as most farms need some form of one and it comes back then the question of the thread, how second hand ones are expensive, so much so that over the lifetime a new one may be more cost effective even. Talking to the accountant last year of changing due to ongoing maintenance costs and she was saying plenty of clients have spent 20/ 30k to move up the years, but maintenance costs didn't decrease and they had repayments with them then. Not many people change tractors when the ones they have are going well, they are generally done for a reason unless it's the 5 yr old ones contractor etc use who change when out of warranty or every 5 yr regardless

Tax is another reason.

straight · 28-04-2021 10:33am

1373 wrote: »

Good luck trying to deal with a Jd dealer at the moment. They’re selling plenty these times and have no reason to offer any discount. There seems to be plenty of farmers happy to pay €100,000 for a 120hp autoquad with loader . I priced the 120m command quad with loader €112000 . A light short tractor that would lift a back wheel if you braked with a bale in front. Left it to them

Ya, I rang a few yesterday and they were only laughing at me. There's no budging them on price. I rang a guy about a 2013 valtra brought in from England and he said 56k. Some joke. There was a similar one for sale in Waterford a few months ago for 36k. I've told several dealers now that they're too expensive but they're selling away so there must be plenty out there willing to part with their hard earned euro for 10 - 15 year old tractors.

rs8 · 28-04-2021 11:09am

straight wrote: »

Ya, I rang a few yesterday and they were only laughing at me. There's no budging them on price. I rang a guy about a 2013 valtra brought in from England and he said 56k. Some joke. There was a similar one for sale in Waterford a few months ago for 36k. I've told several dealers now that they're too expensive but they're selling away so there must be plenty out there willing to part with their hard earned euro for 10 - 15 year old tractors.

Hard to believe.. I'm a firm believer history will repeat itself and we'll have the years of 2010 11 12 again

Second hand tractors are gone expensive

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