Second hand tractors are gone expensive

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think very few beef farms would commit to that spend at present even if they could afford it. The tractor is only one half of the equation. Within ten years s slurry will probably all be dribble bar or injection systems and you still need to hire or buy an agitator. Add in a mower and baler if you want to make silage. At present second hand tractors and a lot of machinery have strong values. This is cyclical. 3-5 years ago that tractor was valued at maybe 25k, I remember in 2010/2011 a neighbour buying a tractor that cost 56k new in 2006 for 22k it was a NH do not know the model and had no loader.

Last year I paid 2.5k for silage, 1.6k for slurry. That 4.1k would not make the colour of the cost of the repayments on a new.modern tractor. A straight 115hp tractor 20 years probably dose not compare with a modern one of similar HP. You probably need to be 150+HP to be comparable.

Double the size of the beef farm and costs could be kept below 6-7k/ year. Even on dairy farms labour is getting fairly expensive. A full time labour unit is probably costing 40k+/year at present putting it completely through the books. On a weekly basis it's 800/week.

With present machinery and tractor prices I definitely consider contracting to see what way things pan out for a few years

What makes you think contractors will continue working for peanuts given machinery inflation, the sums don’t add up for them either in a lot of cases, good sfp kept a lot of local contractors ticking over here but you’d notice year on year buying new kit and tractors has got considerably less

jd_12345

straight wrote: »

Ya, I rang a few yesterday and they were only laughing at me. There's no budging them on price. I rang a guy about a 2013 valtra brought in from England and he said 56k. Some joke. There was a similar one for sale in Waterford a few months ago for 36k. I've told several dealers now that they're too expensive but they're selling away so there must be plenty out there willing to part with their hard earned euro for 10 - 15 year old tractors.

Ah well they'll hardly haggle on the phone on first enquiry unless you've been talking to them in person a couple of times. That would defeat the point of asking price. The strong second hand market puts value on trade ins too. Its those trying to add on another tractor are finding it hard to justify. We have a 2014 case maxxum 125 here with front and cab susp, big tyres, etc. Paid 72k, 3500hrs, I would hazard and guess and hope its worth 51+ giving 3k a year of depreciation, its enough too when you are on €600/year servicing and the odd part or two. Tbf at the time I traded in a tl90a with 2000 hours and got 28k for it. The tl90a is probably still worth 28 if not more.

Constantly on the look out for a back up tractor here as it is incredibly sickening changing implements every 10 minutes in the summer time. Have been casually looking for the past 5 years and prices are definitely holding firm if not rising. We saw a genuine tm140 classic for 28k that I regularly regret not buying back when we had money lol

56k is strong but its closer to the value than 36k. That 36k must not have included VAT or else an insane amount of hours. Go over to the UK to buy if things are so dear here.

straight

jd_12345 wrote: »

Ah well they'll hardly haggle on the phone on first enquiry unless you've been talking to them in person a couple of times. That would defeat the point of asking price. The strong second hand market puts value on trade ins too. Its those trying to add on another tractor are finding it hard to justify. We have a 2014 case maxxum 125 here with front and cab susp, big tyres, etc. Paid 72k, 3500hrs, I would hazard and guess and hope its worth 51+ giving 3k a year of depreciation, its enough too when you are on €600/year servicing and the odd part or two. Tbf at the time I traded in a tl90a with 2000 hours and got 28k for it. The tl90a is probably still worth 28 if not more.

Constantly on the look out for a back up tractor here as it is incredibly sickening changing implements every 10 minutes in the summer time. Have been casually looking for the past 5 years and prices are definitely holding firm if not rising. We saw a genuine tm140 classic for 28k that I regularly regret not buying back when we had money lol

56k is strong but its closer to the value than 36k. That 36k must not have included VAT or else an insane amount of hours. Go over to the UK to buy if things are so dear here.

Are u happy with the case? I don't see too many of them for sale. I've gone to see a few tractors and test drove them and there is no budging on price. Your man with the valtra wanted to know how many cows I had so when I told him he said to come and look at it and he might knock a bit off price. I saw a 2016 maxxum 120 for sale recently enough for 43k and I'm sorry I didn't go yo look at it. Think that vat was included but I could be wrong. Looking up a few uk dealers at the moment plus there seems to be alot of English tractors coming in here at the moment.

cute geoge

At christmas looked at genuine 06 mxu c/w case loader sprung cab 6k hours at main dealer 39k ,the same tractor 08 and same spec the same garage is looking for 45 k now he says aye its a newer model stronger front axel

jd_12345

straight wrote: »

Are u happy with the case? I don't see too many of them for sale. I've gone to see a few tractors and test drove them and there is no budging on price. Your man with the valtra wanted to know how many cows I had so when I told him he said to come and look at it and he might knock a bit off price. I saw a 2016 maxxum 120 for sale recently enough for 43k and I'm sorry I didn't go yo look at it. Think that vat was included but I could be wrong. Looking up a few uk dealers at the moment plus there seems to be alot of English tractors coming in here at the moment.

Oh those eejits-you’re milking a good few cows so I must get my cut out of it too lads😠If that was VAT Included it’s savage value ... probably not unfortunately...
Delighted with the case tbh. Couldn’t be happier really. Not too big or too small for any job. That’s said I’d say a loader would be a step too far if your yard is anyway tight. Suspension is a must. Lovely comfortable tractor though I would say power wise it won’t pull the world down but it’ll struggle through anything that’s put in front of it haha😂 It hasn’t failed us yet anyway. Incredibly happy with it for all normal dairy farm jobs, fertiliser , slurry topping spraying, etc. A lot of people complain about the one piece door but there is unrivalled visibility. There’s a good sunroof on it which replaces the side windows definitely.

jd_12345

cute geoge wrote: »

At christmas looked at genuine 06 mxu c/w case loader sprung cab 6k hours at main dealer 39k ,the same tractor 08 and same spec the same garage is looking for 45 k now he says aye its a newer model stronger front axel

If I’m right those Kill Agri Services always seem to have massive prices for average machinery and always seem to sell them easily

Grueller

jd_12345 wrote: »

If I’m right those Kill Agri Services always seem to have massive prices for average machinery and always seem to sell them easily

A lad locally here, 80 miles from them will deal with no-one else. He says that their warranty is outstanding and no quibbles when anything goes wrong.

jd_12345

Grueller wrote: »

A lad locally here, 80 miles from them will deal with no-one else. He says that their warranty is outstanding and no quibbles when anything goes wrong.

You get what you pay for I suppose. Their gear is consistently overpriced by 7/8 k imo. Depends on your outlook I suppose

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

What makes you think contractors will continue working for peanuts given machinery inflation, the sums don’t add up for them either in a lot of cases, good sfp kept a lot of local contractors ticking over here but you’d notice year on year buying new kit and tractors has got considerably less

It's there business, they are specialists in it. Often it's part of a bigger business. Slurry contractor charges 55 euro/ hour. That is 440/ day. If that tractor is going 6 days a week it's 2450/ week. Give it a bit of down time and between jobs he probably grossing 120k/ year. Yes there will s vat on that but he can claim it back off machinery and fuel.

The lad that I get is buying new machinery every year. The baling contractor smaller outfit but works for the winter. Probably making near 15k bales a year along with a bit of hedging cutting other tractor work. He works on a part time job from November until late April. He is back.on the go next week.

There is a new outfit starting every 3-4 years. New lad starting locally this year. There is no one size fits all where contractor are concerned. I being hearing they will go broke for the 20 years I have been farming but fair play to them they're still there

C0N0R

What’s a 2001 Landini Ghibli 90 with front loader worth these days? Good tyres and a new clutch in last 500 hours or so, hour clock not working?

k mac

Enquired about one recently same year but with no loader, was asking for 21k and this dealer wouldn't be known for being very expensive.

maidhc

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's there business, they are specialists in it. Often it's part of a bigger business. Slurry contractor charges 55 euro/ hour. That is 440/ day. If that tractor is going 6 days a week it's 2450/ week. Give it a bit of down time and between jobs he probably grossing 120k/ year. Yes there will s vat on that but he can claim it back off machinery and fuel.

The lad that I get is buying new machinery every year. The baling contractor smaller outfit but works for the winter. Probably making near 15k bales a year along with a bit of hedging cutting other tractor work. He works on a part time job from November until late April. He is back.on the go next week.

There is a new outfit starting every 3-4 years. New lad starting locally this year. There is no one size fits all where contractor are concerned. I being hearing they will go broke for the 20 years I have been farming but fair play to them they're still there

120k per annum less

20k vat
40k /50k labour for a man (48hrs per week)
20k pa on tractor
5k pa on spreader
5 - 10k maintenance
15k diesel?
Admin costs?

Would you bother?

The issue isn’t really the cost of tractors, but that farm gate prices haven’t risen in line with the cost of production. Contractors don’t provide a solution either as they are single to the same pressures.

Bass Reeves

maidhc wrote: »

120k per annum less

20k vat
40k /50k labour for a man (48hrs per week)
20k pa on tractor
5k pa on spreader
5 - 10k maintenance
15k diesel?
Admin costs?

Would you bother?

The issue isn’t really the cost of tractors, but that farm gate prices haven’t risen in line with the cost of production. Contractors don’t provide a solution either as they are single to the same pressures.

Vat is 13.5% so vat is 14,300, labour is 42-45k, repayments on tractor over 7 years 12.5k and that's assuming he had no trade in, spreaders would be 5k over seven years but would last longer than that He always buy new assuming he hold them seven year warranty is 2.4k hours on a NH along with 9 sevice coupons. Assuming that lasts over a year he has 5.5 years maintenance. He has his own maintenance lad. I say sub 5k/year on average maybe even as low as 3k as his machinery is very new. Fuel less vat I doubt if it's 15k probably a tad less maybe 10-12+vat

Administrative is the same in any business. 25-30% margin over direct costs. As he say farming is the least profitable if the business area he supplies machinery into but it saved his bacon from 2008-2012.

Donald Trump

maidhc wrote: »

120k per annum less

20k vat
40k /50k labour for a man (48hrs per week)
20k pa on tractor
5k pa on spreader
5 - 10k maintenance
15k diesel?
Admin costs?

Would you bother?

The issue isn’t really the cost of tractors, but that farm gate prices haven’t risen in line with the cost of production. Contractors don’t provide a solution either as they are single to the same pressures.

Who is paying 50k a year lads driving tractors? Is that happening in practice?

Bass Reeves

Donald Trump wrote: »

Who is paying 50k a year lads driving tractors? Is that happening in practice?

TBF this lad is paying about 15-16/hour. Saturday is 19-20. However he is one of the better payers as contractors go. Young lads are got for 10-12/hour, alot of experienced guys only getting 12-14/hour

kevthegaff

Donald Trump wrote: »

Who is paying 50k a year lads driving tractors? Is that happening in practice?

No it's not, I'd say alad driving is 100 a day max

maidhc

Donald Trump wrote: »

Who is paying 50k a year lads driving tractors? Is that happening in practice?

Going off topic here, but you are going to end up paying for almost 1.5 labour units if you are running an operation for 8 hours a day 6 days a week; throw in employers PRSI, holidays, etc and it adds up. If you are paying someone about 15 an hour the total bill won't be far shy of 50k by the time you are finished.

ruwithme

kevthegaff wrote: »

No it's not, I'd say alad driving is 100 a day max

Round this way,a nice shiny new tractor & a couple of everlast twin beacons .probably cans of coke & burgers daily would cover it with the youngsters.

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's there business, they are specialists in it. Often it's part of a bigger business. Slurry contractor charges 55 euro/ hour. That is 440/ day. If that tractor is going 6 days a week it's 2450/ week. Give it a bit of down time and between jobs he probably grossing 120k/ year. Yes there will s vat on that but he can claim it back off machinery and fuel.

The lad that I get is buying new machinery every year. The baling contractor smaller outfit but works for the winter. Probably making near 15k bales a year along with a bit of hedging cutting other tractor work. He works on a part time job from November until late April. He is back.on the go next week.

There is a new outfit starting every 3-4 years. New lad starting locally this year. There is no one size fits all where contractor are concerned. I being hearing they will go broke for the 20 years I have been farming but fair play to them they're still there

Is their no closed period up your way

DBK1

kevthegaff wrote: »

No it's not, I'd say alad driving is 100 a day max

I can assure you that any lad you will get willing to drive long days at silage for €100 per day is probably not worth having. A good lad will earn €150 a day on the buildings and be home at 5. The only way you will get a good lad is by paying by the hour. Even at just €12 an hour, on a day at silage that won’t be long reaching €200.

There’s a young lad up the road that comes to me when he gets home from work at 4 or 5. He often gets €100 from me just for his evenings work then when the time ticks on.

funkey_monkey

https://tgfarmservices.co.uk/

Deutz engine and zf transmission. A lot of the switches are recognisable from other brands.
Wonder what the price of these are?
If you're not contacting and willing to gamble on the brand having a presence here in the foreseeable future then it might be worth a punt.
However, not sure anyone wants to be the Guinea pig...

DBK1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

TBF this lad is paying about 15-16/hour. Saturday is 19-20. However he is one of the better payers as contractors go. Young lads are got for 10-12/hour, alot of experienced guys only getting 12-14/hour

You’re disputing your own calculations now!! Add that up for the hours you were calculating for the example you gave at slurry, and don’t forget to add on for the 16 or even 20 hour days in the summer at silage and you won’t be long getting to the €40-€50k maidhc had stated.

Bass Reeves

DBK1 wrote: »

You’re disputing your own calculations now!! Add that up for the hours you were calculating for the example you gave at slurry, and don’t forget to add on for the 16 or even 20 hour days in the summer at silage and you won’t be long getting to the €40-€50k maidhc had stated.

This guy is not doing silage. And if he was his turnover would reflect it

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

Is their no closed period up your way

This lad has 5-6 tractors and a few track machines. He has 10lads working for him. He contracts into loads of different area's. The tanks he has would not just be used in an agricultural setting. He is not using anything except volume of work to subsidize any equipment. Not the cheapest lad around my 52k gallon tank was adgitated and spread in 14 hours early April. Lads working starts at 8 and finish at 5pm. 30 minutes breaks at 10.30 and 30 minutes at 1.30. He finished mine at 3pm and was off to do another farmer who would be spreading 150-200k gallons. Water to be drawn in there unlike mine

DBK1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This guy is not doing silage. And if he was his turnover would reflect it

Fair enough, I didn’t know that. But even at the 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, going on the hourly figures you quoted he is paying between €39k and €41.5k. Add in employers PRSI and you’re heading for the mid €40’s and they haven’t done a minute over 8 hours on any day.

Compare that to a contractor covering silage, slurry, tillage, hedge cutting etc. who is doing them hours and more for probably 35 to 40 weeks a year and probably double them hours for the other 12 or 15 weeks during the busy periods and the wages don’t be long adding up.

FintanMcluskey

If tractor drivers can earn that money, tractor mechanics are getting a raw deal

Dinzee Conlee

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If tractor drivers can earn that money, tractor mechanics are getting a raw deal

Someone told me the other day, digger drivers in cork city are on 28/hour now, and it’s hard to get lads for it...

Now, talk is cheap, don’t know if it’s true or not. But it’s handy money I thought...

J.O. Farmer

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Someone told me the other day, digger drivers in cork city are on 28/hour now, and it’s hard to get lads for it...

Now, talk is cheap, don’t know if it’s true or not. But it’s handy money I thought...

A lot more skill to be a good digger driver than a good tractor driver I would have thought.

Around cork city too you're probably looking at big construction projects possibly paid for by the pharmaceutical companies.

That said I don't know what the cost of living in cork is but it sounds good money.

Then again if the cost of living is high and say anything over 22 is taxed at the high rate of tax you could be as well off on less in a different area.

Donald Trump

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If tractor drivers can earn that money, tractor mechanics are getting a raw deal

There are plenty of lads who'd rather be driving tractors, who are stuck in a dead-end 9-5 office job with an arsehole boss and a 1-hour commute each way (when corona goes) who wouldn't be on that money either.

DBK1

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If tractor drivers can earn that money, tractor mechanics are getting a raw deal

We’re talking about €12-€15 per hour. It’s not big money at all.

I don’t have a tractor mechanic employed directly but if I wanted one I’d highly doubt I’d find one to work for less than €12 per hour?

Lads that are talking about paying €100 a day for what could often turn out to be a 20 hour day at silage, and sometimes 24 hours, would you work hours like that for €5 per hour? Or would you expect any of your kids to work for €5 per hour?