Advertisement
Boards are fundraising to help the people of Ukraine via the Red Cross at this horrific time. Please donate and share if you can, you will find the link here. Many thanks.

Random Running Questions

1280281283285286296

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Mar Azul wrote: »
    Sounds like you're almost time trialing every 5k, not a good idea, you'll burn out or get injured.
    Racing a 5k, the breakdown is roughly 90% aerobic and 10% anaerobic and I think most runners who race 5k know exactly when that switch happens.
    I wouldnt say I am TTing it as I would certainly have more in the tank, a couple mins walking to cool down and I am back to normal, no pains etc or anything the day after.
    Mar Azul wrote: »
    If your quickest Tim for 5k is 25 mins, I'd suggest your easy pace should be 5'50 and slower per k.
    If you want to get faster and quicker, you do need to slow down and on a run or 2 start extending the distance. When you run easy and extend the distance this is where the real fitness gains are made with the recruitment of certain muscle fibres, capillaries (Road network for blood to muscles) and mitochondria.

    Keep doing what you're doing now and you will plateau or worse injure yourself.

    Running is about patience. If you're creating a lifetime habit, what's the hurry?
    I guess I am more looking to burn some fat and also keep some muscle (40+) than necessarily get aerobically "fit", its just a nice freebie I guess!
    So would I be better going for an easier pace 10K? I find running at a slow pace for 5K torturous!
    5ks anaerobically is to be expected. Improving your aerobic base will push your anaerobic threshold further down the path.


    Are those times in kms or miles (kms I hope)?
    Have you had your VO2 tested?

    Yeah, they are my km splits for my last run.
    No never had it tested, just rely on the watch and heartrate sensor to tell me where I am at. (More for relative comparisons than accuracy tbh)


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 17,175 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The Black Oil


    Curious if any other insomniacs here have changed the timing of exercise to earlier in the day, as opposed to evening, and if this has been effective for improving sleep. Exercising 4 hours before bed time seems to be ill-advised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ Mar Azul


    GreeBo wrote: »

    I guess I am more looking to burn some fat and also keep some muscle (40+) than necessarily get aerobically "fit", its just a nice freebie I guess!
    So would I be better going for an easier pace 10K? I find running at a slow pace for 5K torturous!

    If it's fat burning you're after, slowing down will help. The more intensive your run, the higher the % of glycogen being burned compared to fat.
    Slowing down will have the opposite effect, higher % of fat being used for fuel compared to glycogen/carbs.

    Slowing down takes a bit of getting used to but once you do, the runs are very enjoyable.
    This was touched on last week. For some when slowing down, their form changes, ground contact time becomes slower and they enter the plodder zone.
    I'd suggest short steps and quick arms. Just trying to keep the cadence up.
    You could also add 100m strides throughout a run, do a stride every 6 to 8 minutes just to help with focus and form.


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ Mar Azul


    Curious if any other insomniacs here have changed the timing of exercise to earlier in the day, as opposed to evening, and if this has been effective for improving sleep. Exercising 4 hours before bed time seems to be ill-advised.

    Thankfully don't suffer from insomnia but years ago and for about 15 yrs I played indoor footy from 9pm till 10pm. I found it impossible to settle.

    No longer play the footy but my runs are all done very early morning and by 8pm I'm fading, bed at 10 and a sleep by 10:15.
    I think it's a combo of routine and early morning runs.
    Give it a try and hope it helps, my worst nightmare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Mar Azul wrote: »
    If it's fat burning you're after, slowing down will help. The more intensive your run, the higher the % of glycogen being burned compared to fat.
    Slowing down will have the opposite effect, higher % of fat being used for fuel compared to glycogen/carbs.

    Slowing down takes a bit of getting used to but once you do, the runs are very enjoyable.
    This was touched on last week. For some when slowing down, their form changes, ground contact time becomes slower and they enter the plodder zone.
    I'd suggest short steps and quick arms. Just trying to keep the cadence up.
    You could also add 100m strides throughout a run, do a stride every 6 to 8 minutes just to help with focus and form.

    My watch tracks my cadence & stride, but I find if I focus on this I get into super quick, short steps and that tires me out even more!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    GreeBo wrote: »
    My watch tracks my cadence & stride, but I find if I focus on this I get into super quick, short steps and that tires me out even more!

    So I tried it today and did a 6K with an average 5:55 split, its wasn't terribly even as I was a bit faster at the start.
    Not sure I feel any better/worse, but I did try to not "Plod", however this speeds me up as my cadence increases...
    A work in progress I guess!

    I assume I am ok to do a faster/TT attempt maybe every 3rd run or something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ Mar Azul


    GreeBo wrote: »
    So I tried it today and did a 6K with an average 5:55 split, its wasn't terribly even as I was a bit faster at the start.
    Not sure I feel any better/worse, but I did try to not "Plod", however this speeds me up as my cadence increases...
    A work in progress I guess!

    I assume I am ok to do a faster/TT attempt maybe every 3rd run or something?

    Fair play for giving it a go, give it 3/4 weeks and I think you'll find a sweet spot.

    Every 3rd run is still a bit too much and this is where your personal balance needs to be found as your runs/training has to be enjoyable.

    I'd say most regular runners who like to race 5k might aim for one every 4 to 8 weeks. In the meantime they'd fill this void with challenging workouts.

    A typical week for you might look sth like

    Tue - 5 to 8k easy with a few strides

    Thur - session, sth like 5x2 mins and developing that session over a number of weeks to finally get to 5x1k at race pace.

    Sat - 5 to 8k easy

    Sun - 8k to 15k, advancing to the further distance over time. When you get comfortable with the distance you could add some workouts here but not at 5k pace.

    I can't remember the thread but there's one here somewhere about beginners and 5k training


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ Laineyfrecks


    Curious if any other insomniacs here have changed the timing of exercise to earlier in the day, as opposed to evening, and if this has been effective for improving sleep. Exercising 4 hours before bed time seems to be ill-advised.

    I have never been a great sleeper & it got worse a during the lockdowns. I have been taking magnesium 250mg each day for a while now & my sleep has really improved. I never really ran late in the evening but I would imagine it wouldn't help for settling down to sleep so maybe try out a few different routines to see what works best for you. Hope it helps, there really is nothing as bad!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭ lulublue22


    I have never been a great sleeper & it got worse a during the lockdowns. I have been taking magnesium 250mg each day for a while now & my sleep has really improved. I never really ran late in the evening but I would imagine it wouldn't help for settling down to sleep so maybe try out a few different routines to see what works best for you. Hope it helps, there really is nothing as bad!

    Had a physio recommend magnesium - I take it nightly in soluble form. Also had a physio recommend a b supplement.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 17,175 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The Black Oil


    I have never been a great sleeper & it got worse a during the lockdowns. I have been taking magnesium 250mg each day for a while now & my sleep has really improved. I never really ran late in the evening but I would imagine it wouldn't help for settling down to sleep so maybe try out a few different routines to see what works best for you. Hope it helps, there really is nothing as bad!

    Thanks. My GP increased anti-depressants some months ago, with a view to aiding sleep. That's not really helped with quality or quantity. Getting off to sleep is mostly OK and I was in bed before 10:15pm last night. Not to say my sleep hygiene is perfect (bloody phone). Typically, I wake around 5 and find it hard to get back to sleep, then feel like a complete zombie around alarm time, 8am. I always have broken sleep anyway due to an underlying reason which hasn't been fully identified. An MRI back a few months ago was normal, now awaiting an appointment in Beaumont. Conscious of possible overtraining, but best not to Dr Google this. My sleep trouble is largely unconnected to my running, imo. I don't really run late either, wouldn't really be out past 7:30pm.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,424 ✭✭✭ ThebitterLemon


    I can comfortably sleep for 12 hours uninterrupted but if I exercise less than about 2 hours before I go to bed I’m awake for hours!

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ BeginnerRunner


    Thanks. My GP increased anti-depressants some months ago, with a view to aiding sleep. That's not really helped with quality or quantity. Getting off to sleep is mostly OK and I was in bed before 10:15pm last night. Not to say my sleep hygiene is perfect (bloody phone). Typically, I wake around 5 and find it hard to get back to sleep, then feel like a complete zombie around alarm time, 8am. I always have broken sleep anyway due to an underlying reason which hasn't been fully identified. An MRI back a few months ago was normal, now awaiting an appointment in Beaumont. Conscious of possible overtraining, but best not to Dr Google this. My sleep trouble is largely unconnected to my running, imo. I don't really run late either, wouldn't really be out past 7:30pm.

    Have you got tested for sleep apnea? It's frighteningly common but docs are usually good at ruling it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭ FinnC


    Thanks. My GP increased anti-depressants some months ago, with a view to aiding sleep. That's not really helped with quality or quantity. Getting off to sleep is mostly OK and I was in bed before 10:15pm last night. Not to say my sleep hygiene is perfect (bloody phone). Typically, I wake around 5 and find it hard to get back to sleep, then feel like a complete zombie around alarm time, 8am. I always have broken sleep anyway due to an underlying reason which hasn't been fully identified. An MRI back a few months ago was normal, now awaiting an appointment in Beaumont. Conscious of possible overtraining, but best not to Dr Google this. My sleep trouble is largely unconnected to my running, imo. I don't really run late either, wouldn't really be out past 7:30pm.
    In bed by 10 and wake up at 5, sounds like a good night sleep to me!
    Joking aside if you’re only waking up at 5 why not just get up?
    I have awful trouble falling asleep , could be 2 or 3 in the morning before I drop off. Other nights I drop off easily but wake maybe 3 or 4 times a night, now that really ****s you up the next day.
    I’ve started taking melatonin and it certainly helps me fall asleep but it is giving me mad dreams and I still wake up a few times during the night.
    To be honest if I was sleeping through the night and only waking up once at 5am I’d be delighted.
    I’d just get up at that time and go for a run or just relax downstairs in the peace and quiet until the kids woke up!
    Sometimes when I’ve had a particularly bad night waking up a few times that’s what I’ll end up doing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭ aquinn


    Thanks. My GP increased anti-depressants some months ago, with a view to aiding sleep. That's not really helped with quality or quantity. Getting off to sleep is mostly OK and I was in bed before 10:15pm last night. Not to say my sleep hygiene is perfect (bloody phone). Typically, I wake around 5 and find it hard to get back to sleep, then feel like a complete zombie around alarm time, 8am. I always have broken sleep anyway due to an underlying reason which hasn't been fully identified. An MRI back a few months ago was normal, now awaiting an appointment in Beaumont. Conscious of possible overtraining, but best not to Dr Google this. My sleep trouble is largely unconnected to my running, imo. I don't really run late either, wouldn't really be out past 7:30pm.

    If I wake and then still awake for a while after a middle of the night pee break I have a banana by the bed and so have half. It stops me twisting and turning which aggravates my back also. Gets me back to sleep normally. Try that?

    I found a memory foam pillow a few years ago also helped me.

    You can get a magnesium spray in places, try that but don't lash it on to start as it'll sting.

    Maybe go to bed a bit later and see if you sleep for longer? I did that as used to go to bed at 10 and now closer to 11. Still wake in the middle of the night but not as bad as it used to be. Lavender drops on your pillow might also help. I have This works deep pillow spray too but drops nice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ Laineyfrecks


    FinnC wrote: »
    In bed by 10 and wake up at 5, sounds like a good night sleep to me!
    Joking aside if you’re only waking up at 5 why not just get up?
    I have awful trouble falling asleep , could be 2 or 3 in the morning before I drop off. Other nights I drop off easily but wake maybe 3 or 4 times a night, now that really ****s you up the next day.
    I’ve started taking melatonin and it certainly helps me fall asleep but it is giving me mad dreams and I still wake up a few times during the night.
    To be honest if I was sleeping through the night and only waking up once at 5am I’d be delighted.
    I’d just get up at that time and go for a run or just relax downstairs in the peace and quiet until the kids woke up!
    Sometimes when I’ve had a particularly bad night waking up a few times that’s what I’ll end up doing.

    This was exactly my problem too, I just couldn't fall asleep no mater how tired. I bought the lavender spray for my pillow then a lavender magnesium lotion was recommended to me so I used that & melatonin tabs to try get into some kind of a pattern, I agree the melatonin tabs give you some weird dreams. But since taking the magnesium in tablet form 250mg I have been going to bed at a decent time & actually falling asleep quite easily & sleeping right through. I was at my wits end only a couple of months ago & was willing to try anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ skyblue46


    I'm just wondering does anybody know of any accurately measured 5k courses in Dublin that are marked on the road? By this I mean that perhaps when they were measured that there were paint marks left on the side of the road to identify them each week in the case of Parkrun courses or annually in the case of club road races.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭ aquinn


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering does anybody know of any accurately measured 5k courses in Dublin that are marked on the road? By this I mean that perhaps when they were measured that there were paint marks left on the side of the road to identify them each week in the case of Parkrun courses or annually in the case of club road races.


    I believe there is a paint mark in St Anne's to mark their start but others can definitely confirm. There is for the Junior one anyway if you want the 3km option :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ skyblue46


    aquinn wrote: »
    I believe there is a paint mark in St Anne's to park their start but others can definitely confirm. There is for the Junior one anyway if you want the 3km option :pac:

    In an ideal world I'll find the exact start and finish line for Jingle Bells :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ Mar Azul


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering does anybody know of any accurately measured 5k courses in Dublin that are marked on the road? By this I mean that perhaps when they were measured that there were paint marks left on the side of the road to identify them each week in the case of Parkrun courses or annually in the case of club road races.

    The Marlay Park concert field is bang on a km. I measured it with a wheel and I've heard Adam Jones also measured it at a km. Flat loop x5 for a quick 5k


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭ FinnC


    This was exactly my problem too, I just couldn't fall asleep no mater how tired. I bought the lavender spray for my pillow then a lavender magnesium lotion was recommended to me so I used that & melatonin tabs to try get into some kind of a pattern, I agree the melatonin tabs give you some weird dreams. But since taking the magnesium in tablet form 250mg I have been going to bed at a decent time & actually falling asleep quite easily & sleeping right through. I was at my wits end only a couple of months ago & was willing to try anything.

    Where can you buy the magnesium tablets? I have to buy the Melatonin from a place in France as they don’t sell Melatonin over the counter here.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 17,175 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The Black Oil


    FinnC wrote: »
    In bed by 10 and wake up at 5, sounds like a good night sleep to me!
    Joking aside if you’re only waking up at 5 why not just get up?
    I have awful trouble falling asleep , could be 2 or 3 in the morning before I drop off. Other nights I drop off easily but wake maybe 3 or 4 times a night, now that really ****s you up the next day.
    I’ve started taking melatonin and it certainly helps me fall asleep but it is giving me mad dreams and I still wake up a few times during the night.
    To be honest if I was sleeping through the night and only waking up once at 5am I’d be delighted.
    I’d just get up at that time and go for a run or just relax downstairs in the peace and quiet until the kids woke up!
    Sometimes when I’ve had a particularly bad night waking up a few times that’s what I’ll end up doing.

    I couldn't tell you the last time I felt refreshed after a night's sleep. It's not a clear run from 10-5, there's always at least one bathroom visit which shouldn't be happening at my age (and can become multiple), hence the medical investigations and choppy sleep. I am a morning person and being awake early tends to be my body's natural rhythm as is. I'm used to early starts from commuting. This would be fine if I slept better. However, the tiredness in my body can feel like I've been walloped by a 10kg bag of potatoes because of bad sleep. The accumulative effect of this is not fun. Not taking issue with your post, this is just the lay of the land.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ Laineyfrecks


    FinnC wrote: »
    Where can you buy the magnesium tablets? I have to buy the Melatonin from a place in France as they don’t sell Melatonin over the counter here.

    I get mine in Holland & Barrett's, great value with the 1cent sale on. I think they are available in a lot of other stores too. Obviously read up on them before taking them etc, but I swear by them. Yes I have a friend in Scotland who gets my melatonin for me but luckily I don't need it at the moment. Hopefully this helps you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ ultrapercy


    I get mine in Holland & Barrett's, great value with the 1cent sale on. I think they are available in a lot of other stores too. Obviously read up on them before taking them etc, but I swear by them. Yes I have a friend in Scotland who gets my melatonin for me but luckily I don't need it at the moment. Hopefully this helps you.

    magnesium works much better as a rub as much more is absorbed. A large of flakes costs about 12 euro in H+B and makes a near lifetime supply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭ lulublue22


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    magnesium works much better as a rub as much more is absorbed. A large of flakes costs about 12 euro in H+B and makes a near lifetime supply.

    I get the powder version which you dissolve in a small amount of water and drink.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭ cullenswood


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    magnesium works much better as a rub as much more is absorbed. A large of flakes costs about 12 euro in H+B and makes a near lifetime supply.

    What do you do with the flakes?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    magnesium works much better as a rub as much more is absorbed. A large of flakes costs about 12 euro in H+B and makes a near lifetime supply.

    I would be looking into the evidence of that statement tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ BeginnerRunner


    For anyone who doesn't know already... Epsom Salt baths are basically just magnesium too. Tho the data around transdermal absorption isn't really there to support it.

    Worst case scenario, it doesn't do anything but you still get a nice bath to relax in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    For anyone who doesn't know already... Epsom Salt baths are basically just magnesium too. Tho the data around transdermal absorption isn't really there to support it.

    Worst case scenario, it doesn't do anything but you still get a nice bath to relax in.

    You are certainly correct on the data not supporting it.
    Ive heard some far fetched ideas around Epsom salt baths, one being. Soak for 40 minutes, the 1st 20 the toxins are being drawn out of the body, the 2nd 20 your body is absorbing the magnesium.... Not sure how that works.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579607/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ ultrapercy


    Ceepo wrote: »
    I would be looking into the evidence of that statement tbh.

    A nutritionist told me this. The theory is that for magnesium to absorb properly through ingestion the gut has to be very healthy. Its a side effect of modern living that most peoples guts aren't very healthy so a large portion of whats ingested is wasted. Thats the theory.
    In practice I find magnesium supplements useless but the rub quite effective. This is anechdoteal and no way scientific and I may have been influenced by what someone else led me to believe but there you go.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 20,378 ✭✭✭✭ Stark


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    A nutritionist told me this. The theory is that for magnesium to absorb properly through ingestion the gut has to be very healthy. Its a side effect of modern living that most peoples guts aren't very healthy so a large portion of whats ingested is wasted. Thats the theory.
    .

    Hmm, sounds like woo woo tbh. Definitely the part about "modern gut" anyway.


Advertisement