Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Turtwig · 27-04-2021 03:05PM

Sarah1916 wrote: »

Based on todays announcement that all pregnant women should get the vaccine does anyone know if there would be a portal opened up for registering or would this be done through our doctors. I don't want to ring the doctors surgery annoying them as I am sure they are getting endless calls from people looking for a vaccine.

The HSE will have to review it and decide how its administered. My guess would be the easiest way to do facilitate this cohort would be through the maternity hospitals.

Wolf359f · 27-04-2021 03:06PM

Has anyone actually worked out how many extra first doses we could gain by increasing the dosing to 6 weeks?
It's not double as some people may think.
Going by the Belgium forecast
And not withstanding the large order that gets delivered 28th June, doubt they could get that jabbed in like 2 days!

So potentially the maximum gain would be on 17th & 24th May (as these, if it was extended to 6 weeks, wouldn't need their second dose until July) Going by Belgium's figures and adjusting by our share, that could be an extra 311k first doses?
It's obviously not as simple as that.

27-04-2021 03:07PM

leahyl wrote: »

Just listened into a talk in UCC there with Professor Liam Fanning and it's the most positive talk I've heard in a long time. He was really positive about the vaccines and he can see there being face to face teaching again in September; perhaps for big groups in lecture halls, they might wear masks but it generally sounded very positive. He said he thinks that over 30's should be able to register to receive vaccine in late May/early June.

It kind of baffles me that we'd be discussing having masks in a lecture hall if everyone in the lecture hall is fully vaccinated.

PhilOssophy · 27-04-2021 03:07PM

seamus wrote: »

On a risk/reward basis I prefer keeping the second dose as tight as possible.

I'm not convinced by the argument that more people with one dose is better than fewer people with two. Not in the long term anyway.

In the short term, there's a good economic argument for it. But if we want to be permanently shot of this thing, then driving to achieve full vaccination is the only way forward.

But at the moment, we are only focusing on the short term, getting rid of the hospitalisations, reducing the spread and allowing people back to work and re-opening our economy.

Giving people 1 dose will help speed that process up, as well as giving more people some level of confidence as well as affording the govt more options regarding reducing the lock-down.

timsey tiger · 27-04-2021 03:07PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why does end of June matter to their recommendations.
They are taking a risk by leaving people longer before getting any vaccine but its a risk they dont seem to put any weight on. They dont seem to own it as a risk.

Yes but they aren't, that is the governments fault for not securing supplies fast enough. They are not going to take on risk to save the government.

robinph · 27-04-2021 03:09PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I take your point on the vulnerable cohorts.

But when it comes to extending the vaccination programme, it's not clear to me it would have that impact. You should have started first doses sooner than you would have otherwise so end date would be the same?

Either system you still have exactly the same number of doses to give so the end date is still the same assuming an even level of supply and arms to put it in.

If it's going to take 6 months to jab everyone twice you have to be in a better place to have 100% of people with one jab done after 3 months, than have just 50% with two jabs and the other 50% with nothing.

It might have an effect on the usefulness of the vaccines in 12 months time, but now is really not the time to be worried about that. In 12 months time then maybe the vulnerable groups need a booster or a different brand to deal with a new variant, but very unlikely that the entire population is going to be double vaccinated every year.

Turtwig · 27-04-2021 03:25PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I take your point on the vulnerable cohorts.

But when it comes to extending the vaccination programme, it's not clear to me it would have that impact. You should have started first doses sooner than you would have otherwise so end date would be the same?

It would only be the same if you were administering the exact same number of doses per week. That will not be the case as our supply ramps ups the maths get complicated. I haven't worked it out so I could be wrong. You'll have to take it with a pinch of salt because all I can really back up here is that people who I think should know this stuff have said it could mean the program goes on for longer depending on which way the supply levels work.

ddarcy · 27-04-2021 03:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Certainly possible, but I would like to think people would come back for the second dose if it was only an extra two weeks involved, two months and I would expect fewer to come back.

It’s a tough one to be fair, would just like to see a bit more urgency myself. However, I totally get other points of view, you’re never going to please everyone I guess.

There is another problem as well with extending doses. Moderna requires that the second dose be out in storage to be used. Basically you get no benefit in extending the deadline as more vaccine will need to be put in storage.

I don’t believe Pfizer is as strict, but they will have a requirement like this as well. So essentially there is no point extending as the unused vaccine will be in storage and people will complain that we aren’t using the vaccine...

Corholio · 27-04-2021 03:37PM

Will be good for a certain number of people I guess.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

stephenjmcd · 27-04-2021 03:43PM

Corholio wrote: »

Will be good for a certain number of people I guess.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

In advise terms it's logical based on growing evidence from studies.

In practical terms I don't know how they manage it to be honest.

Turtwig · 27-04-2021 03:46PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

In advise terms it's logical based on growing evidence from studies.

In practical terms I don't know how they manage it to be honest.

NIAC really don't like make the HSE's job any bit easier do they? My thoughts are with the folks that are going to have to work this out.

eoinbn · 27-04-2021 03:46PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

In advise terms it's logical based on growing evidence from studies.

In practical terms I don't know how they manage it to be honest.

Pretty straight forward if they are a joined up IT system...
That could save 150k-200k doses of the vaccine.

seamus · 27-04-2021 03:47PM

Corholio wrote: »

Will be good for a certain number of people I guess.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

Rough crunch of the numbers suggests that the number of non-HCWs between 16 and 50 who've had covid is about 120,000.

So not a game-changer, but 120k doses now becoming available is not to be sniffed at.

KrustyUCC · 27-04-2021 03:48PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

In advise terms it's logical based on growing evidence from studies.

In practical terms I don't know how they manage it to be honest.

That shouldn't be that hard

Proof of a positive test

HSE should have details like name, dob, doctor on cases as it is

If 49 or under proof of test = one vaccine

Would love to know up to date figure on cases in that cohort

out of 247,069 I'd imagine cases in under 50 to be at least 40% which is a big amount of people only needing one dose

KrustyUCC · 27-04-2021 03:49PM

seamus wrote: »

Rough crunch of the numbers suggests that the number of non-HCWs between 16 and 50 who've had covid is about 120,000.

So not a game-changer, but 120k doses now becoming available is not to be sniffed at.

In effect that's like an extra 120,000 J&J though and really should help speed up the rollout

titan18 · 27-04-2021 03:49PM

eoinbn wrote: »

Pretty straight forward if they are a joined up IT system...
That could save 150k-200k doses of the vaccine.

It's the HSE though, do they even have a database of everyone who's tested positive?

stephenjmcd · 27-04-2021 03:51PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That shouldn't be that hard

Proof of a positive test

HSE should have details like name, dob, doctor on cases as it is

If 49 or under proof of test = one vaccine

Would love to know up to date figure on cases in that cohort

out of 247,069 I'd imagine cases in under 50 to be at least 40% which is a big amount of people only needing one dose

Minus health care workers and minus the fact that this only applies to Pfizer & Moderna vaccines, it really isn't going to make that big of a difference, it's not a "game changer"

Don't get me wrong it's welcome advice but it's really not going to speed things up to any noticeable impact

Corholio · 27-04-2021 03:51PM

seamus wrote: »

Rough crunch of the numbers suggests that the number of non-HCWs between 16 and 50 who've had covid is about 120,000.

So not a game-changer, but 120k doses now becoming available is not to be sniffed at.

I wonder will antibody tests become more available because of this now too. I'm not too sure of their reliability either though.

hmmm · 27-04-2021 03:53PM

Brazil has rejected Sputnik. Brazil.
https://www.gov.br/anvisa/pt-br/assuntos/noticias-anvisa/2021/anvisa-nao-aprova-importacao-da-vacina-sputnik-v

Maybe it's the translation, but it's quite damning e.g.
"According to GGMED, flaws in product development were identified in all stages of clinical studies (phases 1, 2 and 3). There is also an absence or insufficiency of quality control, safety and efficacy data. One of the worrying information regarding the evaluation of the data available so far is that the cells where the adenoviruses are produced for the development of the vaccine allow their replication. This can lead to infections in humans and can cause damage and death, especially in people with low immunity and respiratory problems, among other health problems."

Sounds like potentially a good vaccine, but flaws in manufacturing?

Turtwig · 27-04-2021 03:53PM

Corholio wrote: »

I wonder will antibody tests become more available because of this now too. I'm not too sure of their reliability either though.

I think they'll have to draw a very firm line at previous positive PCR.

Neamhshuntasach · 27-04-2021 03:56PM

Corholio wrote: »

Will be good for a certain number of people I guess.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

Wonder that will be recorded in terms of the data maintained for 1st and 2nd doses. Increments both columns? Guess it's the same for J and J, but not sure what they're doing there either.

ACitizenErased · 27-04-2021 03:57PM

I think NIAC met and said 'how do we make this as difficult for the HSE as possible?'

Russman · 27-04-2021 04:01PM

Is there actually a formal announcement of the NIAC advice and Tony's take on it, or does it just become "the way" we now do the rollout ?

Eod100 · 27-04-2021 04:01PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I think NIAC met and said 'how do we make this as difficult for the HSE as possible?'

HSE should have a database of everyone that has tested positive. Maybe appointment system could link in with that but does get tricky if someone is immunocompromised as no registry of that.

KrustyUCC · 27-04-2021 04:04PM

Eod100 wrote: »

HSE should have a database of everyone that has tested positive. Maybe appointment system could link in with that but does get tricky if someone is immunocompromised as no registry of that.

Fair point

Still HSE or GP would be dealing with mmunocompromised people at some level so hopefully they won't be as difficult to identify

stephenjmcd · 27-04-2021 04:05PM

Eod100 wrote: »

HSE should have a database of everyone that has tested positive. Maybe appointment system could link in with that but does get tricky if someone is immunocompromised as no registry of that.

Another factor to consider is, is this going to be common practice now in other countries. What is the definition of "fully vaccinated" for EU green pass, remains to be seen if countries would let someone in without issue if they'd only 1 dose

titan18 · 27-04-2021 04:08PM

Seems more trouble than its worth to me. At best you're saving some vaccines from mid June on which isn't a huge thing really if supply from Pfizer goes as anticipated. Extending the gap by a week or two would have been much handier.

josip · 27-04-2021 04:08PM

Russman wrote: »

Is there actually a formal announcement of the NIAC advice and Tony's take on it, or does it just become "the way" we now do the rollout ?

No, Fergal Bowers is now running the country it seems.
He must have taken over from Tony sometime in the past month.
I hope they had the common courtesy to let Micheal and Leo know about the change.

Eod100 · 27-04-2021 04:09PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Another factor to consider is, is this going to be common practice now in other countries. What is the definition of "fully vaccinated" for EU green pass, remains to be seen if countries would let someone in without issue if they'd only 1 dose

Good question. Maybe member states will have leeway but would think it would need to be agreed at EU level. Also impacts who has to do MHQ too.

Sammy2012 · 27-04-2021 04:10PM

Maybe this is the wrong place to post this but I am so annoyed today and I just need to vent. So my 69 year old mother registered for her vaccine on the 15th of April, the day they opened registration. As of today she has not received an appointment, and according to the HSE helpline might not receive one until the 6th of May. However people in Wexford, that are younger than her, that we know, have since received both appointments and vaccines. People we know of in other counties have received the same. According to the helpline staff you will not be called by age but it is pretty much random allocation. So people who are 60 could receive an appointment tomorrow but she will still have to wait.

Then to top it off a GP practice in our local town have it advertised on their web page that if you are aged between 60 and 69 you can register to receive a vaccine this Friday. Our own GP are not vaccinating anyone under 70 as they are following HSE guidelines or so they say.

So to me the rollout is following no order at all. I was advised to call the HSE Have your say helpline but guess what they are very busy right now and there's noone to take the call...

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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