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When I apply for a job and it asks for sexuality/etc at the end, why is that? Does it

24

Comments

  • #32
    Pandiculation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭Pandiculation


    It’s oddly very common in the U.K., amongst publicly funded agencies anyway, and there’s an assumption it’s perfectly acceptable to ensure they’re diverse.

    I’m not comfortable with it as I think it could potentially be used to discriminate even unconsciously if the data were available, or as the article I linked about the NHS data breach, end up being lost and published online on some data dump.

    Also it’s just too much info. I don’t necessarily want want my employer or potential employer to know that I’m gay, straight or bi or my religious beliefs or lack there of. It’s just creepy.


  • #33
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Mr.S wrote: »
    It's very common with large employers. It should be (and usually always is) phrased in a way that it's not directly related to the application and is used to track diversity.

    Exactly h.r retain the equality and diversity part of the application and send the rest on to the recruitment panel. They don't send your religion, sex and gender info to the recruiters.


  • #34
    Pandiculation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭Pandiculation


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Exactly h.r retain the equality and diversity part of the application and send the rest on to the recruitment panel. They don't send your religion, sex and gender info to the recruiters.

    If you refuse to fill it what happens?

    There are elements of that information I just have no interest in providing to a potential employer.

    I was asked my ethnicity and also about religion and sexual orientation in the U.K., which I honestly found extremely intrusive.


  • #35
    trixi001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭trixi001


    I have filled in numerous application forms and almost all have had some sort of monitoring questionnaire separate to the main application that is to be filled in asking these kind of questions

    I have also seen job adverts where is states We particularly welcome any applications from females due to under representation in our company etc


  • #36
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,378 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    The OP needs to back up this up with evidence.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • #37
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,904 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mr.S wrote: »
    It's very common with large employers.
    In Ireland? Which large employers in Ireland use these questions?
    trixi001 wrote: »
    I have filled in numerous application forms and almost all have had some sort of monitoring questionnaire separate to the main application that is to be filled in asking these kind of questions

    In Ireland? Which employers in Ireland use these questions?


  • #38
    sekond
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭sekond


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    In Ireland? Which large employers in Ireland use these questions?



    In Ireland? Which employers in Ireland use these questions?

    Public Appointments Service, for one thing, if I remember correctly. Part of the registration process before you can apply for any position.

    Edited to add: Just logged back in to check. They ask gender, ethnic background, nationality, first language, disability, caring responsibilities and sexual orientation. Looking back at what I filled in a very long time ago - none were obviously compulsory as I selected "prefer not to say" a few times.


  • #39
    JayRoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    I think people are talking about two different things.

    There is a world of difference between what is basically an anonymous, optional, survey of employees... and being asked to divulge intimate information as part of the job application process.

    People seemed to me to be saying that the latter was common in a way that would leave the employer open to charges of discrimination.

    Which it can't be really.


  • #40
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,904 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mr.S wrote: »
    In Ireland. Larger companies use it to track diversity, it's very common.


    For example, the first two questions Google ask are:
    • Please indicate your gender
    • Please indicate your race/ethnic group (choose all that apply)



    HubSpot do something similar at the end of every application before it's submitted:



    Diageo (to give a non tech example) do the same and have a 'Voluntary Disclosures' section before you submit your application.



    The final question after gender / nationality is around disability.

    -

    It's very common with large employers, given how much importance they place on diversity. You'll find the questions they ask switch and are updated.

    (I'm assuming this is what the OP is referring to, and not a required question that is part of the application process with no mention of what it's for)

    Do any of these employers ask about sexuality?


  • #41
    km991148
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    The OP needs to back up this up with evidence.

    Do they?

    Quite standard practice for diversity monitoring. Data held separately from the application itself.


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  • #42
    Cal4567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    Saw this in the UK (public sector) but not in Ireland. Not just recently either, but back 10-20 years ago. I'd say if you've only ever worked in ROI and in the private sector, you'll not have seen these. Correct me, if I'm wrong on this.

    As per km991148 says, for diversity monitoring and the data is held separately from the application.


  • #43
    JayRoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    km991148 wrote: »

    Quite standard practice.

    To be fair, it clearly isn't. Given the number of people here who have not experienced it.

    Plus it would help if the OP addressed exactly what he was asked and how.


  • #44
    Bodjhrjekekr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭Bodjhrjekekr


    I've applied for a lot of jobs lately and over half I would say, asked these types of questions at the end of the application. You do not have to answer. It says it is anonymous they just use it for reporting.


  • #45
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,851 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Mr.S, I meant asking your sexuality. I've never seen it. The other ones yeah. Lost count of times I confirmed I'm not a military veteran.


  • #46
    Bodjhrjekekr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭Bodjhrjekekr


    gameoverdude wrote: »
    Mr.S, I meant asking your sexuality. I've never seen i
      t. The other ones yeah. Lost count of times I confirmed I'm not a military veteran.

      I've applied for lots of jobs lately and yes specifically it asks sexuality, and gives a list of options to choose from


    • #47
      JayRoc
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭JayRoc


      gameoverdude wrote: »
      Mr.S, I meant asking your sexuality. I've never seen it. The other ones yeah. Lost count of times I confirmed I'm not a military veteran.

      You were asked this in Ireland?

      Tbh lads this is sounding more and more like a half dozen american companies coming over here and using the same application forms as back home.

      (Edit: out of curiosity, I had a quick google and it looks like about 10% of our workforce is employed by multi-national corporations. Probably a greater percentage of boards.ie users by the looks of it! I have asked several people today in various industries including IT, construction, security, finance and two public sector employees and none of them have been asked these questions. I actually had cause to apply to a NI company for a role recently and this sort of thing was nowhere to be seen. Honestly I think it's just a tiny minority who will ever come across this stuff)


    • #48
      km991148
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


      JayRoc wrote: »
      To be fair, it clearly isn't. Given the number of people here who have not experienced it.

      Plus it would help if the OP addressed exactly what he was asked and how.

      I would say to be fair it is, given the amount of people who have experienced it! In fact, I did say it!

      That's why I said 'quite'.

      Wouldn't say every company does this and it's been a long time since I've seen it myself (but I haven't had to apply for jobs for a while..).



      Either way, to say the op needs to provide evidence and doubt them is a bit over the top..


    • #49
      JayRoc
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭JayRoc


      km991148 wrote: »
      I would say to be fair it is, given the amount of people who have experienced it! In fact, I did say it!

      That's why I said 'quite'.

      Wouldn't say every company does this and it's been a long time since I've seen it myself (but I haven't had to apply for jobs for a while..).



      Either way, to say the op needs to provide evidence and doubt them is a bit over the top..

      My point was that you said it was standard. It obviously isn't.

      That so many people (including myself, my spouse, my siblings and every other person I have asked in passing about this today) have never even heard of this kind of stuff, shows to me at least that it is not "standard".

      I think we can all ( and I include myself in this) be guilty of thinking that our little corner of the world is representative of the majority.


    • #50
      Cherry Blossom
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


      I’ve applied to a few big retailers, Next, H&M, Argos, Screwfix and they all have equality monitoring as part of the application process. All positions I’ve applied for in Northern Ireland have it. I live in the border counties but the retailers I mentioned were for positions on this side of the border though they are all big British companies.


    • #51
      AndrewJRenko
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,904 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


      sekond wrote: »
      Public Appointments Service, for one thing, if I remember correctly. Part of the registration process before you can apply for any position.

      Edited to add: Just logged back in to check. They ask gender, ethnic background, nationality, first language, disability, caring responsibilities and sexual orientation. Looking back at what I filled in a very long time ago - none were obviously compulsory as I selected "prefer not to say" a few times.

      They ask at registration, but not at job application stage, which is a bit different - and gives some comfort that it is not part of the application process.


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    • #52
      km991148
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


      JayRoc wrote: »
      My point was that you said it was standard. It obviously isn't.

      That so many people (including myself, my spouse, my siblings and every other person I have asked in passing about this today) have never even heard of this kind of stuff, shows to me at least that it is not "standard".

      I think we can all ( and I include myself in this) be guilty of thinking that our little corner of the world is representative of the majority.

      Maybe I should have said becoming quite standard. But then I've seen this at least 15, maybe 20 years ago so that's not quite right.

      Either way, based on my own and others (the basis that I made my comment on, and stated as such) I said it was quite (or fairly) standard.

      I didn't state categorically that it was THE standard, as this would imply that everyone does this (and therefore unlikely we would be having this discussion or thread even - as you say, it obviously isn't).

      But put it another way: it's becoming more and more common, probably more so in some sectors, and has been around for a long while.


    • #53
      Pandiculation
      Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭Pandiculation


      My question is what safe guards are there in place to prevent this data being used in a discriminatory way and where is it being stored, who has access to it etc?

      I mean just as an example, I don’t necessarily want an employer to know some of that stuff. What happens if you get a homophobic or sectarian manager or something like that?

      How do I know I didn’t get a role because of what I filled in on that?


    • #54
      B.A._Baracus
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,240 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


      ari101 wrote: »
      Sometimes information that could be considered sensitive is requested for 'diversity measuring/monitoring', but companies generally say if they ask for this reason. I believe the idea is to allow them to ensure hiring practices are not discriminatory.

      This.
      The idea is if ever down the line they need to prove they are not being discriminate the company can say we hire 4 people who identify as homosexual or 2 as disabled.... the company does not need to say oh it's John from accounting or anything like that. In fact they can't elude to any identifying markers as to who. But they can say how many they do. GDPR and all that.


    • #55
      GingerLily
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭GingerLily


      Pandiculation wrote: »
      My question is what safe guards are there in place to prevent this data being used in a discriminatory way and where is it being stored, who has access to it etc?

      I mean just as an example, I don’t necessarily want an employer to know some of that stuff. What happens if you get a homophobic or sectarian manager or something like that?

      How do I know I didn’t get a role because of what I filled in on that?

      That information is not going to the interview panel, so should not be used against you in that way.
      If you feel you have been discriminated against in your interview I'd imagine you have legal avenues you could go down, and the company would be on the back foot as you have proof you disclosed this sensitive information to them.


    • #56
      Cal4567
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


      One of my sisters works in HR. The larger the company and the entire public sector now have these but they have only crept in over the last decade following the UK/US where they would have been standardish for the last 20/30 years or so. I've worked in both the UK and the US and have seen examples of these.

      I'd take a guess, if you only have worked in Ireland and not for a multinational or any arm of the public sector, this will be a surprise. It's not some new woke thing that's just been invented.


    • #57
      Pandiculation
      Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭Pandiculation


      GingerLily wrote: »
      That information is not going to the interview panel, so should not be used against you in that way.
      If you feel you have been discriminated against in your interview I'd imagine you have legal avenues you could go down, and the company would be on the back foot as you have proof you disclosed this sensitive information to them.

      But what if it goes on file somewhere or you get the job and someone has access to it? Then you get the possibility of even unconscious biases against you and so on.

      I don’t know really trust databases to have that level of information about me.


    • #58
      [Deleted User]
      Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


      On every job application, it asked for sexuality. You weren't obliged to provide the answer.

      It usually helped you get to interview stage (same as identifying as an irish traveller).


    • #59
      lawred2
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


      wherearewe45 wrote: »
      Definitely sexuality, saw it on a recent application and I've been wondering about it since but I have seen it before. I've no problems answering questions like that, I'm just curious

      I'd be putting that application in the bin


    • #60
      lawred2
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


      kathleen37 wrote: »
      It's very common. No one has to answer if they'd rather not.

      I don't believe that


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    • #61
      ByTheSea2019
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭ByTheSea2019


      This was in the UK, but I previously saw a job I would have liked and couldn't apply for because it said "LGBT only" in the job title. I'm assuming they are allowed to reserve a number of jobs for under-represented groups.


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