When I apply for a job and it asks for sexuality/etc at the end, why is that? Does it

wherearewe45

Just curious why they ask my sexuality (I'm gay) so does that mean it works in my favour to declare that as I'd have a tiny edge as it'd help their pool of diversity in the company.

Kewreeuss

Does it actually say sexuality? Really?
Or does it say sex, when it would be better to say gender.
In a company that has employees from all over the world, the gender question indicates the the correct pronoun to use.

wherearewe45

Kewreeuss wrote: »

Does it actually say sexuality? Really?
Or does it say sex, when it would be better to say gender.
In a company that has employees from all over the world, the gender question indicates the the correct pronoun to use.

Definitely sexuality, saw it on a recent application and I've been wondering about it since but I have seen it before. I've no problems answering questions like that, I'm just curious

gameoverdude

They actually asked that on an application form!? Minefield! Jebus. I'd keep well away from that company.

Can't believe that.....what right ( or difference could it make) does a prospective employer have to ask ( or even consider asking) such a question???? Surely, they'd be leaving themselves wide open to any number of potential lawsuits.... just say Mary gets the job, & she's gay, surely every heterosexual ( or trans, fluid etc.) Candidate could / would have legitimate grievience assuming they all equality qualified

ari101

Sometimes information that could be considered sensitive is requested for 'diversity measuring/monitoring', but companies generally say if they ask for this reason. I believe the idea is to allow them to ensure hiring practices are not discriminatory.

Montage of Feck

I can't believe any company would ask such a question, surely they would leave themselves wide open to a discrimination case.

gauchesnell

Kewreeuss wrote: »

Does it actually say sexuality? Really?
Or does it say sex, when it would be better to say gender.
In a company that has employees from all over the world, the gender question indicates the the correct pronoun to use.

sexuality doesnt indicate gender. Also gender doesnt indicated your prefered pronoun.

Atlantic Dawn

I've seen race and ethnic background asked on job applications, usually an optional question to answer with a spiel attached saying they like to have on record a breakdown of how many they have interviewed from different backgrounds.

gameoverdude

Slightly off topic in a way, but I remember one application form I was to fill out for job was "my religion " options were "catholic/ protestant " closed the tab on the browser. Back to the OP, if it gets to the stage you get interviewed by the manager, I'd very much hope your sexuality doesn't count.

drunkmonkey

I thought that was illegal or if not illegal can leave the employer wide open to litigation, I was warned about not doing anything like that when recruiting by the enterprise board.
Is this in Ireland?

ari101

ari101 wrote: »

Sometimes information that could be considered sensitive is requested for 'diversity measuring/monitoring', but companies generally say if they ask for this reason. I believe the idea is to allow them to ensure hiring practices are not discriminatory.

Second. It’s usually for diversity quotas.

kathleen37

It's very common. No one has to answer if they'd rather not.

Kewreeuss

gauchesnell wrote: »

sexuality doesnt indicate gender. Also gender doesnt indicated your prefered pronoun.

That’s why I asked if the form said sexuality or sex.
In the OPs context, A lot of times forms said sex when gender was intended.
If a form says sex, it generally wants you to indicate whether you are male or female, at least until recently, so that if your first name was Ekundayo or Li jing or Salwa you know to use him his or she hers. More recently I have found and I admit I only have two examples, that that people have advised HR that they use they/them no matter what their ID says.

So I do think gender, written on employment records gives a good indication of the pronouns to use, unless otherwise advised.

Of course. Sexuality is not the same as gender.
If I got a form with sexuality written on it, I would ignore it. Is that information collected in Ireland?

UK and France get around it by using it for gender quotas and to monitor discrimination.
Race and religion in Ireland should not be asked on forms, but the anti discriminatory thing can be used to gather it.

I agree with previous post to mine. Don’t answer if you don’t want to

OscarMIlde

gameoverdude wrote: »

Slightly off topic in a way, but I remember one application form I was to fill out for job was "my religion " options were "catholic/ protestant " closed the tab on the browser. Back to the OP, if it gets to the stage you get interviewed by the manager, I'd very much hope your sexuality doesn't count.

Saw that before when applying for a post in Queens. They said it was for diversity reasons, but I was still fairly suspicious about it. Declined to answer it as I consider myself an atheist despite being raised Catholic.

belfe

Quite common for what I've seen, more in American companies than in European ones.

Is for statistics, and your answers are anonymous if the implementation has been correct (otherwise it could be illegal), but you're free not to answer that question. I'd never answer these type of questions for the company, even if I understand why they are there, that is having a source of data that will expose if there is any discrimination, from the employee side we don't know who receive the data and what use do they intend for this information.

gameoverdude

kathleen37 wrote:

It's very common. No one has to answer if they'd rather not.

It's in no way common!

gameoverdude

OscarMIlde wrote:

Saw that before when applying for a post in Queens. They said it was for diversity reasons, but I was still fairly suspicious about it. Declined to answer it as I consider myself an atheist despite being raised Catholic.

No religion myself. And you guessed the right area of the world.

AndrewJRenko

wherearewe45 wrote: »

Definitely sexuality, saw it on a recent application and I've been wondering about it since but I have seen it before. I've no problems answering questions like that, I'm just curious

Is this in Ireland? What kind of organisation and role?

Daragh1980

Anytime I meet someone from the North, I always ask if they’re Catholic or Protestant.

drunkmonkey

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is this in Ireland? What kind of organisation and role?

I'm not believing this at all, the story the enterprise board told me was that a man had applied for a job and didn't get called for an interview, they also applied with the same qualifications and experience as a woman and got called for an interview and successfully sued, it was a public service job if I remember correctly.
There's no way you'd start interviewing and get into written gender questions, any straight person could cry fowl in this case if the job was given to one of the LGBTQI community.

Pandiculation

The only time I’ve encountered it was on a U.K. public owned organisation’s application process and I found it a bit weird tbh and I don’t really like that level of personal information being stored.

I don’t mean to sound paranoid but, just look at the political swings the US went through. Would you really want your sexual orientation or religious beliefs on a database in a red neck state for example?

I’m not saying that’s an issue in 2021 Ireland or that It’s likely to be in the future, but you can see how politics can swing and go weird over a decade or so in a lot of other places.

And take a look at how this managed to leak in a data breach. Anonymised data? Yeah?

From a data leak in 2012:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/06/nhs-trust-fined-data-security

A health body has been handed a six-figure penalty after publishing sensitive personal details of more than 1,000 NHS staff on the internet.
Employees ... found details of their sexual orientation and religious beliefs were published online, alongside their name, date of birth, pay scale and national insurance number. It did not contain any patient or clinical data, the trust said.

kathleen37

gameoverdude wrote: »

It's in no way common!

Apologies. It's very common in the Tech industry.

AndrewJRenko

kathleen37 wrote: »

Apologies. It's very common in the Tech industry.

No, it's not - not in Ireland.

Are you in Ireland?

wherearewe45

kathleen37 wrote: »

Apologies. It's very common in the Tech industry.

Is it just for statistical purposes, or could it help/hinder my interview chances?

cee_jay

gameoverdude wrote: »

Slightly off topic in a way, but I remember one application form I was to fill out for job was "my religion " options were "catholic/ protestant " closed the tab on the browser.

This is par for the course in Northern Ireland

https://www.equalityni.org/ECNI/media/ECNI/Publications/Employers%20and%20Service%20Providers/FECodeofPractice@09-07.pdf

JayRoc

If an interviewer asked a woman whether she planned to have kids, HR would have a heart attack.

What company would be so daft as to ask a potential employee about their sexuality, and in writing too???
I've never heard of such a thing

JayRoc

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Saw that before when applying for a post in Queens. They said it was for diversity reasons, but I was still fairly suspicious about it. Declined to answer it as I consider myself an atheist despite being raised Catholic.

It's the old joke about the Irish Atheist: "Yeah, but are you a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist?".

Ice Storm

I have seen this before and didn't think it was uncommon so I'm surprised at the reaction here.

In my experience, questions of this nature are optional or there is a 'prefer not to say' option.

CrabRevolution

I've never seen it in any job application I've encountered.

I can only picture it as part of some "diversity" initiative, and even then it'd be included in an optional addendum to the main application. Something along the lines of "Thank you for applying. At X inc. we value all our applicants and are always keen to learn best we can serve them. Would you mind filling in this optional survey, all results are anonymous, it has no bearing on your application etc. "

cloudatlas

gameoverdude wrote: »

It's in no way common!

If you are applying for jobs in HEI universities in the UK it is common they submit reports to the Athena Swan Framework to show how they are creating inclusive environments i.e. environments that people from different backgrounds want to work in. 'Athena SWAN is a charter established and managed by the UK Equality Challenge Unit in 2005 that recognises and celebrates good practices in higher education and research institutions towards the advancement of gender equality: representation, progression and success for all'.

Pandiculation

It’s oddly very common in the U.K., amongst publicly funded agencies anyway, and there’s an assumption it’s perfectly acceptable to ensure they’re diverse.

I’m not comfortable with it as I think it could potentially be used to discriminate even unconsciously if the data were available, or as the article I linked about the NHS data breach, end up being lost and published online on some data dump.

Also it’s just too much info. I don’t necessarily want want my employer or potential employer to know that I’m gay, straight or bi or my religious beliefs or lack there of. It’s just creepy.

cloudatlas

Mr.S wrote: »

It's very common with large employers. It should be (and usually always is) phrased in a way that it's not directly related to the application and is used to track diversity.

Exactly h.r retain the equality and diversity part of the application and send the rest on to the recruitment panel. They don't send your religion, sex and gender info to the recruiters.

Pandiculation

cloudatlas wrote: »

Exactly h.r retain the equality and diversity part of the application and send the rest on to the recruitment panel. They don't send your religion, sex and gender info to the recruiters.

If you refuse to fill it what happens?

There are elements of that information I just have no interest in providing to a potential employer.

I was asked my ethnicity and also about religion and sexual orientation in the U.K., which I honestly found extremely intrusive.

trixi001

I have filled in numerous application forms and almost all have had some sort of monitoring questionnaire separate to the main application that is to be filled in asking these kind of questions

I have also seen job adverts where is states We particularly welcome any applications from females due to under representation in our company etc

Calahonda52

The OP needs to back up this up with evidence.

AndrewJRenko

Mr.S wrote: »

It's very common with large employers.

In Ireland? Which large employers in Ireland use these questions?

trixi001 wrote: »

I have filled in numerous application forms and almost all have had some sort of monitoring questionnaire separate to the main application that is to be filled in asking these kind of questions

In Ireland? Which employers in Ireland use these questions?

sekond

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In Ireland? Which large employers in Ireland use these questions?



In Ireland? Which employers in Ireland use these questions?

Public Appointments Service, for one thing, if I remember correctly. Part of the registration process before you can apply for any position.

Edited to add: Just logged back in to check. They ask gender, ethnic background, nationality, first language, disability, caring responsibilities and sexual orientation. Looking back at what I filled in a very long time ago - none were obviously compulsory as I selected "prefer not to say" a few times.

JayRoc

I think people are talking about two different things.

There is a world of difference between what is basically an anonymous, optional, survey of employees... and being asked to divulge intimate information as part of the job application process.

People seemed to me to be saying that the latter was common in a way that would leave the employer open to charges of discrimination.

Which it can't be really.

AndrewJRenko

Mr.S wrote: »

In Ireland. Larger companies use it to track diversity, it's very common.


For example, the first two questions Google ask are:

• Please indicate your gender
• Please indicate your race/ethnic group (choose all that apply)

HubSpot do something similar at the end of every application before it's submitted:



Diageo (to give a non tech example) do the same and have a 'Voluntary Disclosures' section before you submit your application.



The final question after gender / nationality is around disability.

-

It's very common with large employers, given how much importance they place on diversity. You'll find the questions they ask switch and are updated.

(I'm assuming this is what the OP is referring to, and not a required question that is part of the application process with no mention of what it's for)

Do any of these employers ask about sexuality?

km991148

Calahonda52 wrote: »

The OP needs to back up this up with evidence.

Do they?

Quite standard practice for diversity monitoring. Data held separately from the application itself.

Cal4567

Saw this in the UK (public sector) but not in Ireland. Not just recently either, but back 10-20 years ago. I'd say if you've only ever worked in ROI and in the private sector, you'll not have seen these. Correct me, if I'm wrong on this.

As per km991148 says, for diversity monitoring and the data is held separately from the application.

JayRoc

km991148 wrote: »

Quite standard practice.

To be fair, it clearly isn't. Given the number of people here who have not experienced it.

Plus it would help if the OP addressed exactly what he was asked and how.

Bodjhrjekekr

I've applied for a lot of jobs lately and over half I would say, asked these types of questions at the end of the application. You do not have to answer. It says it is anonymous they just use it for reporting.

gameoverdude

Mr.S, I meant asking your sexuality. I've never seen it. The other ones yeah. Lost count of times I confirmed I'm not a military veteran.

Bodjhrjekekr

gameoverdude wrote: »

Mr.S, I meant asking your sexuality. I've never seen i

t. The other ones yeah. Lost count of times I confirmed I'm not a military veteran.

I've applied for lots of jobs lately and yes specifically it asks sexuality, and gives a list of options to choose from

JayRoc

gameoverdude wrote: »

Mr.S, I meant asking your sexuality. I've never seen it. The other ones yeah. Lost count of times I confirmed I'm not a military veteran.

You were asked this in Ireland?

Tbh lads this is sounding more and more like a half dozen american companies coming over here and using the same application forms as back home.

(Edit: out of curiosity, I had a quick google and it looks like about 10% of our workforce is employed by multi-national corporations. Probably a greater percentage of boards.ie users by the looks of it! I have asked several people today in various industries including IT, construction, security, finance and two public sector employees and none of them have been asked these questions. I actually had cause to apply to a NI company for a role recently and this sort of thing was nowhere to be seen. Honestly I think it's just a tiny minority who will ever come across this stuff)

km991148

JayRoc wrote: »

To be fair, it clearly isn't. Given the number of people here who have not experienced it.

Plus it would help if the OP addressed exactly what he was asked and how.

I would say to be fair it is, given the amount of people who have experienced it! In fact, I did say it!

That's why I said 'quite'.

Wouldn't say every company does this and it's been a long time since I've seen it myself (but I haven't had to apply for jobs for a while..).



Either way, to say the op needs to provide evidence and doubt them is a bit over the top..

JayRoc

km991148 wrote: »

I would say to be fair it is, given the amount of people who have experienced it! In fact, I did say it!

That's why I said 'quite'.

Wouldn't say every company does this and it's been a long time since I've seen it myself (but I haven't had to apply for jobs for a while..).



Either way, to say the op needs to provide evidence and doubt them is a bit over the top..

My point was that you said it was standard. It obviously isn't.

That so many people (including myself, my spouse, my siblings and every other person I have asked in passing about this today) have never even heard of this kind of stuff, shows to me at least that it is not "standard".

I think we can all ( and I include myself in this) be guilty of thinking that our little corner of the world is representative of the majority.

Cherry Blossom

I’ve applied to a few big retailers, Next, H&M, Argos, Screwfix and they all have equality monitoring as part of the application process. All positions I’ve applied for in Northern Ireland have it. I live in the border counties but the retailers I mentioned were for positions on this side of the border though they are all big British companies.

AndrewJRenko

sekond wrote: »

Public Appointments Service, for one thing, if I remember correctly. Part of the registration process before you can apply for any position.

Edited to add: Just logged back in to check. They ask gender, ethnic background, nationality, first language, disability, caring responsibilities and sexual orientation. Looking back at what I filled in a very long time ago - none were obviously compulsory as I selected "prefer not to say" a few times.

They ask at registration, but not at job application stage, which is a bit different - and gives some comfort that it is not part of the application process.