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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #8402
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Vicxas wrote: »
    My god, Indias positivity rate was 25% yesterday
    jayzus, they must be flat out on the pints are they?


  • #8403
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kleiner feigling wrote: »
    False positives in antigen tests are virtually zero.
    Positives from these tests cannot be disputed ( it does produce false negatives).
    Using PCR and Antigen tests in tandem.would give additional confidence in the data - PCR to screen, and antigen tests to confirm accuracy of positive results.

    Your link just a couple of posts back shows where PCR identified 18% fewer positives than antigen testing. PCR turned 18% of the positives into negatives


  • #8404
    kleiner feigling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭kleiner feigling


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your only link just a couple of posts back shows where PCR identified 18% fewer positives than antigen testing. PCR turned 18% of the positives into negatives
    Hi, yeah just deleted this quoted one above - thanks for your clarification there


  • #8405
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    kleiner feigling wrote: »
    False positives in antigen tests are virtually zero.
    Positives from these tests cannot be disputed ( it does produce false negatives).
    Using PCR and Antigen tests in tandem.would give additional confidence in the data - PCR to screen, and antigen tests to confirm accuracy of positive results.

    They are both close to zero for false positives.

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/which-test-is-best-for-covid-19-2020081020734

    For PCR:
    The false positive rate — that is, how often the test says you have the virus when you actually do not — should be close to zero. Most false-positive results are thought to be due to lab contamination or other problems with how the lab has performed the test, not limitations of the test itself.

    For antigen:
    As with the molecular test, the false positive rate of antigen testing should be close to zero.

    If you are happy with the antigen false positive rate then you should have no issue with the PCR false positive rate. Antigen tests also have the disadvantage of a much higher false negative rate.


  • #8406
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,629 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    jayzus, they must be flat out on the pints are they?

    Flat out, they might even be sharing glasses at this rate.


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  • #8407
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    JTMan wrote: »
    The Irish Times here and the Indo here have some leaks/news on the restriction lifting that will be announced this week.

    - Times: Ministers are increasingly reluctant to announce anything for the month of May beyond the resumption of construction, the reopening of hairdressers and personal services, the phased return of retail and allowing in-person religious service.
    - Indo: Relaxations in May would cover non-essential services, personal services, such as hairdressing and barbering, museums and galleries, and religious services.
    - It is widely expected the beer gardens and outside dining will be allowed from June.
    - The Government is planning to allow up to 50 people at mass and regular religious services from mid-May – but not for funerals or weddings.There will be no further increase in the number allowed to attend a funeral mass, which rises from just 10 to 25 from today.

    You're going to have a hard time by getting people onboard with indoor religious gatherings while not allowing even outdoor hospitality. Can these services not be held outdoors? We have a history of that after all


  • #8408
    mohawk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭mohawk


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Well those resisting are why everything has to stay shut.

    Although I'm sure those who complain about it are the same ones complaining about it being shut

    If you open stuff up for the vaccinated only. It would not be viable for many businesses to reopen because vast majority of their customer base won’t be vaccinated. Majority of who are vaccinated are older people. I know HCW and medically vulnerable are vaccinated but is there enough of them vaccinated to keep restaurants, shops, gyms operating. The economy needs people with disposable income spending and unfortunately many older people are living off the state pension (some of medically vulnerable that I know who have been vaccinated are on disability payment again that means limited disposable income).

    So I can see why there hasn’t been such a push for reopening for vaccinated only.


  • #8409
    kleiner feigling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭kleiner feigling


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    They are both close to zero for false positives.

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/which-test-is-best-for-covid-19-2020081020734

    For PCR:


    For antigen:


    If you are happy with the antigen false positive rate then you should have no issue with the PCR false positive rate. Antigen tests also have the disadvantage of a much higher false negative rate.

    Per the paper quoted in the article...

    "If the goal of the test is to evaluate whether additional follow-up is needed or whether the patient should be treated as SARS-CoV-2–positive for the purpose of contact tracing, the test may not be providing the desired information and caution should be used in decision making. Because antibodies appear later in the course of infection, a combination of antibody testing and RT-PCR might be most useful for patients more remote from symptoms or exposure."

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-1495


    Both obviously have their limitations


  • #8410
    noplacehere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭noplacehere


    50 people at mass but not a funeral mass. **** right off. As someone who had a bereavement this lockdown in a MASSIVE church this is ridiculous. 50 people would still have been able to be one per every second pew ffs. If you are allowing 50 people it should be a max of 50 at masses and funerals only if social distancing allows (some churches are tiny I’ll allow).

    Weddings aren’t as relevant to me but seriously, grieving is hard enough never mind watching 50 people coming out of Sunday mass while you are waiting with the 25 you had to ration out


  • #8411
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,290 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I posted this already in a Ryan Tubridy thread. I'm hoping we won't see a fourth wave but...

    On Saturday evening I was driving along the long stretch of canal between Leeson St. and Bluebell. All the way along, the grassy banks were absolutely thronged with hundreds of young folk and needless to say there was zero social distancing. I used to do this route as a regular commute to work, and whilst the sunshine would always bring a few gatherings on parts of the canal, I quite frankly have never seen quite this in my decades of passing by. The pubs being closed, of course, is a contributory factor, but the sheer concentration of people is, to my eyes, unprecedented. There's no attempt to police it, simply because it's in police-able and would not be a popular measure at this stage. Considering the most vulnerable have been vaccinated, I would hope this will not lead to consequences as serious as in past months, but I do believe there is going to be a further spike in this cohort which will muddy the waters for us all in the coming months.


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  • #8412
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    mohawk wrote: »
    If you open stuff up for the vaccinated only. It would not be viable for many businesses to reopen because vast majority of their customer base won’t be vaccinated. Majority of who are vaccinated are older people. I know HCW and medically vulnerable are vaccinated but is there enough of them vaccinated to keep restaurants, shops, gyms operating. The economy needs people with disposable income spending and unfortunately many older people are living off the state pension (some of medically vulnerable that I know who have been vaccinated are on disability payment again that means limited disposable income).

    So I can see why there hasn’t been such a push for reopening for vaccinated only.
    There is no reason why the approach we used last summer shouldn't be effective this summer without that much risk. Such passports, apart from for travel and maybe big events, are too unwieldy to apply at any national or local level.


  • #8413
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    kleiner feigling wrote: »
    Per the paper quoted in the article...

    "If the goal of the test is to evaluate whether additional follow-up is needed or whether the patient should be treated as SARS-CoV-2–positive for the purpose of contact tracing, the test may not be providing the desired information and caution should be used in decision making. Because antibodies appear later in the course of infection, a combination of antibody testing and RT-PCR might be most useful for patients more remote from symptoms or exposure."

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-1495


    Both obviously have their limitations

    But you were talking about antigen testing not antibody testing. Your concerns were with PCRs false positive rate and said that we should be using antigen testing to validate it. That study shows that both PCR and antigen testing have the same false positive rate. It also shows that antigen tests have a much higher false negative rate so I'm not sure how you could use it to validate the PCR tests.


  • #8414
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I posted this already in a Ryan Tubridy thread. I'm hoping we won't see a fourth wave but...

    On Saturday evening I was driving along the long stretch of canal between Leeson St. and Bluebell. All the way along, the grassy banks were absolutely thronged with hundreds of young folk and needless to say there was zero social distancing. I used to do this route as a regular commute to work, and whilst the sunshine would always bring a few gatherings on parts of the canal, I quite frankly have never seen quite this in my decades of passing by. The pubs being closed, of course, is a contributory factor, but the sheer concentration of people is, to my eyes, unprecedented. There's no attempt to police it, simply because it's in police-able and would not be a popular measure at this stage. Considering the most vulnerable have been vaccinated, I would hope this will not lead to consequences as serious as in past months, but I do believe there is going to be a further spike in this cohort which will muddy the waters for us all in the coming months.


    This is a consequence of having nowhere else to go .If they opened beer gardens , opened outdoor dining , allowed people in your garden etc it would spread people out and they would not have the need to gather on canal banks


  • #8415
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I posted this already in a Ryan Tubridy thread. I'm hoping we won't see a fourth wave but...

    On Saturday evening I was driving along the long stretch of canal between Leeson St. and Bluebell. All the way along, the grassy banks were absolutely thronged with hundreds of young folk and needless to say there was zero social distancing. I used to do this route as a regular commute to work, and whilst the sunshine would always bring a few gatherings on parts of the canal, I quite frankly have never seen quite this in my decades of passing by. The pubs being closed, of course, is a contributory factor, but the sheer concentration of people is, to my eyes, unprecedented. There's no attempt to police it, simply because it's in police-able and would not be a popular measure at this stage. Considering the most vulnerable have been vaccinated, I would hope this will not lead to consequences as serious as in past months, but I do believe there is going to be a further spike in this cohort which will muddy the waters for us all in the coming months.
    Similar comments were posted last May, June, July and even August. Nothing happened.


  • #8416
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I really can't understand the thought process at all. We're repeatedly told that the biggest risk is indoors, to the point where, according to the guidelines, people can't even meet in each other's gardens in case they end up going indoors - yet 50 people in a church is grand?

    I can only assume it's either kite flying or a misunderstanding, because I really can't see the logic here.

    The only logical explanation I can offer is that the majority of people who are mass going age will have received benefits of being vaccinated with at least one dose and a lot with two even, but it's introducng a religious exemption to reopening of indoor services and activities by stealth.

    ETA: The above only holds true with Catholic services, does anyone have an demographic breakdown of those who attend religious services in Ireland by age or know where I can find this?


  • #8417
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    gozunda wrote: »
    Not exactly sure why the Italian embassy should be 'annoyed'. They currently have their own two tiered mandatory quarantine system.

    Because Italy has home quarantine, which no one was really complaining about. People are complaining about hotel quarantine.


  • #8418
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,044 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    This is a consequence of having nowhere else to go .If they opened beer gardens , opened outdoor dining , allowed people in your garden etc it would spread people out and they would not have the need to gather on canal banks

    That is some next level thinking, we are going to need a few months to disseminate this suggestion and consider what implications it might have. Level 5 restrictions + extra Tony modifications will need to stay in place until this is discussed.


  • #8419
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    People texting into Neil Prendeville earlier saying that the crowds at Kennedy Quay in Cork at the weekend was a 'disgrace' etc. etc.

    Jesus chríst there has been pent up demand since Christmas. Every time a group of 3 or more enjoy themselves outside, they get vilified and then just move indoors. That's where the spread happens. If they're outside in warm, breezy conditions, risk is relatively minimal. This outdoor party thing has been happening since the start of the pandemic, and each time, people scream outrage and no surge in cases happened.

    Anyone down there in Cork for example (I was, Friday evening and Sunday morning) would know that it was a breezy weekend down there. COVID particles, if any, would be dissipated into the air. There were bubbles of people that *were* socially distant by the quay. Maybe not in the queues outside Goldbergs and The Idle Hour, but the owner/manager/staff of each premises were patrolling both queues, enforcing mask usage.


  • #8420
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    mohawk wrote: »
    So I can see why there hasn’t been such a push for reopening for vaccinated only.

    Also, the only way for that to work would be needing an internal vaccine passport, which I think a lot of people do not support.


  • #8421
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    seamus wrote: »
    I'm always amused anytime someone comes in talking about "PCR", "lateral flow" and asking about numbers of cycles, as if they had a rashers what any of these words meant a year ago.

    So because we didnt know anything about a year ago we shouldn't be asking questions? What did you know about all this a year ago that allows you to be 'amused' now? Did we/you even know what a corona virus was? I didn't.


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  • #8422
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,063 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    People texting into Neil Prendeville earlier saying that the crowds at Kennedy Quay in Cork at the weekend was a 'disgrace' etc. etc.

    Jesus chríst there has been pent up demand since Christmas. Every time a group of 3 or more enjoy themselves outside, they get vilified and then just move indoors. That's where the spread happens. If they're outside in warm, breezy conditions, risk is relatively minimal. This outdoor party thing has been happening since the start of the pandemic, and each time, people scream outrage and no surge in cases happened.

    Anyone down there in Cork for example (I was, Friday evening and Sunday morning) would know that it was a breezy weekend down there. COVID particles, if any, would be dissipated into the air. There were bubbles of people that *were* socially distant by the quay. Maybe not in the queues outside Goldbergs and The Idle Hour, but the owner/manager/staff of each premises were patrolling both queues, enforcing mask usage.

    Don't know about Kennedy Quay but the Lough was bad. Not so much in a covid sense as i've stopped caring on that, but the litter and people pissing in the lanes/bushes there was a disgrace imo. I'd hate to live in one of the houses there as the smell of piss must have been insane.


  • #8423
    Flowergirl201
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Flowergirl201


    Anyone got any idea how long the waiting time is to get a test, probably citywest?


  • #8424
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    titan18 wrote: »
    Don't know about Kennedy Quay but the Lough was bad. Not so much in a covid sense as i've stopped caring on that, but the litter and people pissing in the lanes/bushes there was a disgrace imo. I'd hate to live in one of the houses there as the smell of piss must have been insane.


    :( I feel nauseous even reading that. That's disgusting. The quays were not as bad, as there was a massive rubbish bin opened for bottles and other rubbish.


    Yuck!!


  • #8425
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,063 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    :( I feel nauseous even reading that. That's disgusting. The quays were not as bad, as there was a massive rubbish bin opened for bottles and other rubbish.


    Yuck!!

    Ya, I know there's no public toilets there (or anywhere tbf), and a lack of bins, but on litter, if you bring a bag of cans out, you can bring it home with you. The toilet situation will never be sorted though until things reopen sadly. Put public toilets in and by the second day, they'll be destroyed. Even with bins, the reason there's a lack of them is cos people dump their house rubbish into it. I can't really blame the councils for not putting those stuff in when people abuse them when they do go in.


  • #8426
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    Because Italy has home quarantine, which no one was really complaining about..
    ..because it wasn't enforced, and people could and did ignore it.

    People are going on like they're chained to a radiator when they're not supposed to leave their county - can't imagine how oppressed they'd feel if they actually had to stay in their house.


  • #8427
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I really can't understand the thought process at all. We're repeatedly told that the biggest risk is indoors, to the point where, according to the guidelines, people can't even meet in each other's gardens in case they end up going indoors - yet 50 people in a church is grand?

    I can only assume it's either kite flying or a misunderstanding, because I really can't see the logic here.

    There isn't any logic. It boils down to the influence of the church lobby groups.

    You could make a twisted argument that spiritual needs are really important to emotional well-being. They are but so too is socialisation of any kind something which outdoor events could really help with. I expect the spiritual wellbeing will be the line they use.

    There's also the problem that outdoor dining will only suit a select few businesses and leave others at a serious disadvantage. The politicians would probably rather keep this advantage period to a minimum. Open indoor as quickly as possible after outdoor only.

    Opening exclusively outdoor dining and the like actually creates a headache for our politicians dealing with lobby groups. They'd prefer to kick that can down to the road until the playing field is as level as possible. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see them resisting all the pressure.


  • #8428
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    :( I feel nauseous even reading that. That's disgusting. The quays were not as bad, as there was a massive rubbish bin opened for bottles and other rubbish.


    Yuck!!

    Scumbags are going to be scumbags. A full thread of the mess assholes left behind them. And don't give me the nonsense that the bins were full/not enough of them and so on.

    https://twitter.com/GeogheganCllr/status/1386254605017878531


  • #8429
    big syke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 903 ✭✭✭big syke


    Flowergirl201 wrote: »
    Anyone got any idea how long the waiting time is to get a test, probably citywest?

    Brought my dad their last week. He was an hour and 50 minutes in the queue before he got the jab.

    Apparantly running better as the week went on.


  • #8430
    Ktek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Ktek


    I'm seeing quite a lot of obvious suicides in the local press

    My son said he has 5 acquaintances in the past year dead from suicide.


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  • #8431
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,483 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Turtwig wrote: »
    There isn't any logic. It boils down to the influence of the church lobby groups.
    But of course! FF is in government, led by Micheál Martin who was minister for children when his 2002 government let the church off the hook for legal claims relating to institutional abuse.

    Same sh!t, different year.


This discussion has been closed.
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