Random EV thoughts.....

80sDiesel · 24-04-2021 12:45PM

If you intended to keep the car would it not be better to go HP from the start?

liamog · 24-04-2021 12:49PM

80sDiesel wrote: »

If you intended to keep the car would it not be better to go HP from the start?

You'd have to do the math to compare the specific deals.
If your offered 4% interest on a HP or 0% interest on a PCP, then it could work out better to do PCP and then refinance the GMFC at the end of the PCP.

cannco253 · 25-04-2021 01:57AM

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/innovate-uks-netx-project-announces-results-from-new-charging-survey/

“NetX is a three-socket charger that can extend an existing single charge point, enabling you to share the capacity of a standard 7kW fast charger with up to three vehicles.”

Fast ??

Black_Knight · 25-04-2021 06:54AM

cannco253 wrote: »

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/innovate-uks-netx-project-announces-results-from-new-charging-survey/

“NetX is a three-socket charger that can extend an existing single charge point, enabling you to share the capacity of a standard 7kW fast charger with up to three vehicles.”

Fast ??

7kW is fast in the UK. DC charging is "rapid"

RandomViewer · 25-04-2021 04:36PM

Petrol station forecourts will be fitting chargers on most sites when EVs hit around 8-10%, you'll be paying €10-20 for your half hour, as the technology evolves and charging gets quicker the time will fall and you'll pay by the minute, Service stations employ thousands of people and these jobs will be protected,

Black_Knight · 25-04-2021 06:28PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Petrol station forecourts will be fitting chargers on most sites when EVs hit around 8-10%, you'll be paying €10-20 for your half hour, as the technology evolves and charging gets quicker the time will fall and you'll pay by the minute, Service stations employ thousands of people and these jobs will be protected,

What do petrol stations make on fuel? Vs what do petrol stations make on teas and coffees etc bought while charging? Granted how many ice cars can you service in 30 minutes at 8 pumps and what turnover of those buy tea/coffee, vs how many EVs can you service in 30 minutes at 8 stations(or cables, whatever) and what turnover of those buy a tea/coffee. I certainly never bought service station tea/coffee before driving an EV.

hold my beer · 25-04-2021 06:52PM

Petrol stations make feck all on petrol and diesel. The margins are very, very small, but the volume sold helps. It's the sales in the shop where the real money is made.

RandomViewer · 25-04-2021 08:18PM

hold my beer wrote: »

Petrol stations make feck all on petrol and diesel. The margins are very, very small, but the volume sold helps. It's the sales in the shop where the real money is made.

Because of the charging time a €10-20 fee would be feasible, probably drop a few picnic benches outside,it's 20years since I worked in a petrol station and around 3pence a litre was the markup, diesel used to be a bit better 5 or 6, saying that we were shifting 50,000litres a week

JohnC. · 25-04-2021 08:22PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

probably drop a few picnic benches outside

Well, it depends where exactly, right? Not mentioning any Waterford forecourt in particular.

the_amazing_raisin · 25-04-2021 08:42PM

JohnC. wrote: »

Well, it depends where exactly, right? Not mentioning any Waterford forecourt in particular.

I'm sure he was just trying to be helpful

RandomViewer · 25-04-2021 08:52PM

JohnC. wrote: »

Well, it depends where exactly, right? Not mentioning any Waterford forecourt in particular.

I've never been to Waterford,

JohnC. · 25-04-2021 09:03PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

I've never been to Waterford,

AndyBoBandy · 25-04-2021 09:47PM

^^^ still showing as online on the eCars app.....

Time for one our Deise based members to go on a scouting mission...

RandomViewer · 25-04-2021 10:36PM

JohnC. wrote: »

Oh

MJohnston · 25-04-2021 11:08PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Petrol station forecourts will be fitting chargers on most sites when EVs hit around 8-10%

Every EV owner wishes they would do this, but unfortunately the filling station companies seem entirely uninterested in doing this. If they were going to do this, they wouldn’t be letting ESB, Tesla, and IONITY take all their prime spots (which is what’s happening).

They’re not run by stupid people, they know there’s a business model there (as mentioned, they’re making nothing from fuel sales) but they haven't seized the opportunity.

Laviski · 25-04-2021 11:30PM

Also forgetting a key point here.... Esb infrastructure. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think many filling stations are simply not able to slap down dc charge points due to esb infra especially if looking to drop multiple 150kw units with secondly space would also be an issue for parking said cars at those multiple dc points.

Laviski · 25-04-2021 11:38PM

If filling stations don't do anything, they will decrease as time moves on. If we have more destination ac
Charge points, do we need the amount of filling stations we have today? I think not, just ones on main travel routes would remain in the end....

But that's a long way off, 2040 or so.

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 10:04AM

Laviski wrote: »

Also forgetting a key point here.... Esb infrastructure. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think many filling stations are simply not able to slap down dc charge points due to esb infra especially if looking to drop multiple 150kw units with secondly space would also be an issue for parking said cars at those multiple dc points.

There was an interview a while back with some petrol station representative group which basically said all of this, they want to install chargers but are having trouble with ESB Networks installing the infrastructure

I'd say the issue is around cost, I'm not sure what a 2MW grid connection costs but I assume it isn't cheap, especially when a service station has to stump up all of the cash for grid upgrades to their site. I'm guessing the capital outlay just didn't make sense at the moment and ESB probably weren't budging on prices so they're in limbo for now

JPA · 26-04-2021 11:53AM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

^^^ still showing as online on the eCars app.....

Time for one our Deise based members to go on a scouting mission...

It hasn't gone anywhere and the bench isn't there. He just has a few moments now and then...

mr potato head · 26-04-2021 12:09PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I'd say the issue is around cost, I'm not sure what a 2MW grid connection costs but I assume it isn't cheap, especially when a service station has to stump up all of the cash for grid upgrades to their site. I'm guessing the capital outlay just didn't make sense at the moment and ESB probably weren't budging on prices so they're in limbo for now

I wonder what the cost is of the battery buffer type DC chargers that might be able to bridge the gap in some lower use areas?

innrain · 26-04-2021 12:10PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Petrol station forecourts will be fitting chargers on most sites when EVs hit around 8-10%, you'll be paying €10-20 for your half hour, as the technology evolves and charging gets quicker the time will fall and you'll pay by the minute, Service stations employ thousands of people and these jobs will be protected,

Wait until the shopping centers will realize there is money to be making. Do you remember the times when cinemas were a standalone operation? Urban fuel stations won't be so protected. Not sure about motorway services as people would still need breaks but in the future of the 90kWh batteries and 15kWh/100km winter consumption you can drive point to point without the need of charging. Destination charging would be important but does not need to be in a fuel station. Can be anywhere you park your car.

RandomViewer · 26-04-2021 12:27PM

innrain wrote: »

Wait until the shopping centers will realize there is money to be making. Do you remember the times when cinemas were a standalone operation? Urban fuel stations won't be so protected. Not sure about motorway services as people would still need breaks but in the future of the 90kWh batteries and 15kWh/100km winter consumption you can drive point to point without the need of charging. Destination charging would be important but does not need to be in a fuel station. Can be anywhere you park your car.

Vandalism will be a risk with any street based network, let the fuel stations with their multiple cameras do the job,

MJohnston · 26-04-2021 12:50PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Vandalism will be a risk with any street based network, let the fuel stations with their multiple cameras do the job,

I know you're determined to find every possible angle you can to attack EVs, but this one is truly absurd!

In the electric future (and that means fully electric - it will take decades to rid ourselves of the last ICE vehicles in ownership) there will be intercity service stations as people will want some place to stop, snack, and piss. In addition, as said above, charging points will be all over shopping centres and 'destinations'.

There might be some car wash spots or something like that around cities and towns, but we won't need filling stations to the extent that we do at the minute. Lots of prime development land that the station owners will make a pretty penny off of!

timsey tiger · 26-04-2021 01:17PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I know you're determined to find every possible angle you can to attack EVs, but this one is truly absurd!

In the electric future (and that means fully electric - it will take decades to rid ourselves of the last ICE vehicles in ownership) there will be intercity service stations as people will want some place to stop, snack, and piss. In addition, as said above, charging points will be all over shopping centres and 'destinations'.

There might be some car wash spots or something like that around cities and towns, but we won't need filling stations to the extent that we do at the minute. Lots of prime development land that the station owners will make a pretty penny off of!

Warning fact free post ahead

Profitability of petrol stations, will drop off a cliff when ev ownership begins to take off. This will lead to closures of forecourts esp. in valuable urban environments and it will happen a lot earlier in the adoption curve than people expect. As margins will be hit, owners of capital will wish to switch to more profitable uses with better growth potential.

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 01:43PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Warning fact free post ahead

Profitability of petrol stations, will drop off a cliff when ev ownership begins to take off. This will lead to closures of forecourts esp. in valuable urban environments and it will happen a lot earlier in the adoption curve than people expect. As margins will be hit, owners of capital will wish to switch to more profitable uses with better growth potential.

Sure urban petrol stations have been closing down for years, between taxes and fuel efficiency the profit margins keep getting squeezed. Only the motorway services would have the turnover to keep a large forecourt running

I'm curious as to what the cost difference between setting up a petrol station and an EV charging hub would be. Can't see a charging hub being more expensive considering the ground works would be a fraction of what's needed for petrol tanks

slave1 · 26-04-2021 01:46PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Warning fact free post ahead

Profitability of petrol stations, will drop off a cliff when ev ownership begins to take off. This will lead to closures of forecourts esp. in valuable urban environments and it will happen a lot earlier in the adoption curve than people expect. As margins will be hit, owners of capital will wish to switch to more profitable uses with better growth potential.

LOL, how much do petrol stations make off a litre of fuel? Look at the wholesale rates of electricity and how much like of Ionity are charging.

When stopping for a charge folk will pop in for a tea/coffee/snack and this is where the margins are, there is significantly higher chance of this whilst waiting for an EV charge versus a liquid fuel stop....

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 01:48PM

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, how much do petrol stations make off a litre of fuel? Look at the wholesale rates of electricity and how much like of Ionity are charging.

When stopping for a charge folk will pop in for a tea/coffee/snack and this is where the margins are, there is significantly higher chance of this whilst waiting for an EV charge versus a liquid fuel stop....

I heard a quote a while back that petrol stations make more money from a cup of coffee than a €50 sale of diesel

MJohnston · 26-04-2021 01:52PM

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, how much do petrol stations make off a litre of fuel? Look at the wholesale rates of electricity and how much like of Ionity are charging.

When stopping for a charge folk will pop in for a tea/coffee/snack and this is where the margins are, there is significantly higher chance of this whilst waiting for an EV charge versus a liquid fuel stop....

I think the posters point was — how much are people going to bother with those kinds of long stop charges at filling stations in cities?

Wouldn't you rather do the same long charge at a Tesco, or a cinema, or a coffee shop with an on-street charger outside? Or home?

What's the need for dedicated filling station-style areas in a future where charging points are all over the place?

liamog · 26-04-2021 01:55PM

Currently petrol sales are co-located with convenience stores, the future is charging stations co-located with supermarkets, coffee shops and fast food restaurants.

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 02:17PM

liamog wrote: »

Currently petrol sales are co-located with convenience stores, the future is charging stations co-located with supermarkets, coffee shops and fast food restaurants.

Absolutely, and if county councils had any forethought they'd be putting fast charging hubs into town centers to help bring in some business and revitalise them somewhat

I think shopping centres, supermarkets, gyms and restaurants will be the main locations for 50kW hubs. 1-2 hours parked wouldn't be abnormal for these types of business and 50kW can delivery plenty of power in that time. IMO, if you had a 300kW grid connection, then 6x 50kW chargers would be better than 2x 150kW ones

Save the HPCs for motorway services and outside citied where there's more need

AC parks for housing estates, apartments, train stations hotels and workplaces

Now I just need someone to listen to my grand plans

Random EV thoughts.....

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