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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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  • #8162
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Was in the local park yesterday. Market was back, the place was hopping. People getting burgers, hotdogs, toasties, etc. And they were eating them all on the grass. If chairs and tables were in use, does the virus suddenly become more virulent? It feels like there's no real logic to the decisions being made at a policy level. Just blanket bans on things to give the appearance of decision making.


  • #8163
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,062 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Turtwig wrote: »
    One of their core objectives is the protection of public health services which includes the preservation of the pathways to non covid health care. You can't isolate one from the other.

    Isn't that determined by the numbers of Covid cases? It looks like NPHET is acting as if the numbers now are like they were last March.

    Austrian theologian the late Fr Ivan Illich warned that the day would come when doctors in peacetime would be given the power of generals in wartime and that public-health concerns would become so overriding that sight of everything else would be lost, with damaging effects.


  • #8164
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Was in the local park yesterday. Market was back, the place was hopping. People getting burgers, hotdogs, toasties, etc. And they were eating them all on the grass. If chairs and tables were in use, does the virus suddenly become more virulent? It feels like there's no real logic to the decisions being made at a policy level. Just blanket bans on things to give the appearance of decision making.

    I agree . More benches , more tables , more bins , more toilets , would encourage people outdoors and at least allow us live a little .


  • #8165
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stheno wrote: »
    Isn't he the same GP that went on TV and proudly regaled the story of an elderly woman who went to her brothers funeral and caught Covis, and he asked her what lesson she learned from it?

    That’s the one. Thought a GP would need some compassion.


  • #8166
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,062 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Was in the local park yesterday. Market was back, the place was hopping. People getting burgers, hotdogs, toasties, etc. And they were eating them all on the grass. If chairs and tables were in use, does the virus suddenly become more virulent? It feels like there's no real logic to the decisions being made at a policy level. Just blanket bans on things to give the appearance of decision making.

    Obviously, what happens in the vicinity of cafés is the only thing that can be immediately controlled. Otherwise, it depends on when and where gardaí are present. I heard that, yesterday, gardaí at Harold's Cross instructed people who were crowding together to disperse.


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  • #8167
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So after the mail claiming NPHET don’t want to ok outdoor dining for May and June, Dr Ray Walley all over the radio bulletins today echoing the same, arguing for a more conservative reopening that doesn’t include even outdoor dining.

    It’s a completely synchronised campaign to try and get the public on their side so government can’t possibly go against it. Walley wasn’t forced against his will to do so many radio interviews. But he did. Not sure how a GP is an expert now on outdoor spread of Covid.

    This GP, last September, said "Anything where there's a congregation, more than six be it indoor or outdoor, needs to be to me, ill advised."

    Now, even last September, there was plenty of reason to assume that outdoor was safer. But no difference according to Walley.


  • #8168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    This GP, last September, said "Anything where there's a congregation, more than six be it indoor or outdoor, needs to be to me, ill advised."

    Now, even last September, there was plenty of reason to assume that outdoor was safer. But no difference according to Walley.

    If it was a random gp it would be easy to ignore. But he advises the hse/nphet and is a de facto member of nphet. It shows the rigid, sledgehammer approach and ignores what’s going on in the real world.


  • #8169
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    hmmm wrote: »
    I realise that, but saying that a relatively safe activity like for example outdoor dining can't resume because there is a risk that people might car-pool (or whatever) is increasingly hard to justify when there are no proper statistics to quantify that risk. That might have been fine a year ago, but it sounds a bit seat-of-the-pants now.

    I'd guess we are following guidelines on outdoor activities including outdoor dining and minimum vaccination levels for reopening similar to that in the UK.

    Again afaik that is based on that risks are social distancing and close contact around all such outdoor activities. And I agree we don't have the definitive statistics on that. Because we've never faced this type of public health situation in modern times and simply don't have specific data for Ireland.

    To that the UK have just rolled back their restrictions on outdoor dining (12 April) as a result of meeting vaccination goals. If we are to stick to that here and be consistent- we've a bit to go..


  • #8170
    Corholio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    gozunda wrote: »
    I'd guess we are following guidelines on outdoor activities including outdoor dining and minimum vaccination levels for reopening similar to that in the UK.

    Again afaik that is based on that risks are social distancing and close contact around all such outdoor activities. And I agree we don't have the definitive statistics on that. Because we've never faced this type of public health situation in modern times and simply don't have specific data for Ireland.

    To that the UK have just rolled back their restrictions on outdoor dining (12 April) as a result of meeting vaccination goals. If we are to stick to that here and be consistent- we've a bit to go..

    I think using UK as a defacto comparison leaves out so many differences between the areas. Aligning exactly with the UK isn't an accurate way to do it. The UK having lots more bigger cities, close population swathes, longer commuting and congregating areas etc etc means their targets were built around their circumstances. I don't believe that's a correct thing to follow parallel.


  • #8171
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,629 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    429 cases, 1 death


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  • #8172
    Boggerman12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Boggerman12


    The country is running out of road financially and the sooner it happens the better to end this nphet/saint Tony grip on the people of this once free republic.


  • #8173
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    Sofa King Great wrote: »
    I was out for a run around the city centre earlier this morning and through various parks.

    The place was in bits. There were bottles and cans stacked around every bin and rubbish blowing everywhere.

    My problem is not with the people drinking but rather with the council for not putting out proper bins etc. If they want people to meet outdoors etc they need to put the appropriate facilities in place to allow tbis

    Absolutely. Blackrock Village in Cork was an absolute state earlier. Takeaway cups littered everywhere but at the same time all the bins were absolutely overflowing. Council nowhere to be seen.


  • #8174
    harr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,507 ✭✭✭harr


    Vicxas wrote: »
    429 cases, 1 death

    Probably a significant backlog building at this stage ? I hate when that happens because A it frightens the life of some people and B. An excuse for the government to give out to us and tell us we aren’t out of the woods , still need to hold firm , next two weeks are vital and it would be crazy to consider lifting restrictions to any meaningful level if he are still getting 600 + cases a day the odd day ..


  • #8175
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Corholio wrote: »
    I think using UK as a defacto comparison leaves out so many differences between the areas. Aligning exactly with the UK isn't an accurate way to do it. The UK having lots more bigger cities, close population swathes, longer commuting and congregating areas etc etc means their targets were built around their circumstances. I don't believe that's a correct thing to follow parallel.
    True but we are tracking their basic plan in this phase, not an approach that will cause us too much grief as we are moving at about half their pace.


  • #8176
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Corholio wrote: »
    I think using UK as a defacto comparison leaves out so many differences between the areas. Aligning exactly with the UK isn't an accurate way to do it. The UK having lots more bigger cities, close population swathes, longer commuting and congregating areas etc etc means their targets were built around their circumstances. I don't believe that's a correct thing to follow parallel.

    Never mentioned 'de facto" or "exactly" etc. I said "similar". And that because I'd guess we're using the data coming from there (and elsewhere) as a litmus test to help manage our infection rate whilst we roll out the biggest vaccination programme in the countries history. Of course our approach has to have differences.

    But In the absence of other definitive data we could do a hell of a lot worse than how we are doing atm with our current low rate of infection. Id prefer not to see that messed up for short term gain.


  • #8177
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,222 ✭✭✭prunudo


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    Absolutely. Blackrock Village in Cork was an absolute state earlier. Takeaway cups littered everywhere but at the same time all the bins were absolutely overflowing. Council nowhere to be seen.

    Sure why would the council be anywhere to be seen. Officialdom in this country thinks everyone is staying at home, not meeting more than one household, and definitely not indoors.
    The public are about 6 weeks ahead of those in charge and making the decisions. The government may think we're in level 5 but what I can see, the public are on about 3 or even 2, albeit with limited buisnesses to frequent.


  • #8178
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    This crowding in parks wouldn’t be happening if we could spread out a bit more
    Some in gardens, some in beer gardens , some in outdoor cafes etc
    The fact that we have very little choice is making the people crowd together in parks and beaches


  • #8179
    RGS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭RGS


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    This crowding in parks wouldn’t be happening if we could spread out a bit more
    Some in gardens, some in beer gardens , some in outdoor cafes etc
    The fact that we have very little choice is making the people crowd together in parks and beaches

    Stop talking sense.

    The old adage applies
    common sense is not as common as it should.


  • #8180
    sonofenoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭sonofenoch


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    This crowding in parks wouldn’t be happening if we could spread out a bit more
    Some in gardens, some in beer gardens , some in outdoor cafes etc
    The fact that we have very little choice is making the people crowd together in parks and beaches

    The idea that a good day out involves being surrounded by a crowd of strangers would always be lost on me .....pandemic or not


  • #8181
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    The idea that a good day out involves being surrounded by a crowd of strangers would always be lost on me .....pandemic or not

    Well me too but I understand others like to meet up and have chats and need somewhere to do that .


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  • #8182
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,154 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    prunudo wrote: »
    Sure why would the council be anywhere to be seen. Officialdom in this country thinks everyone is staying at home, not meeting more than one household, and definitely not indoors.
    The public are about 6 weeks ahead of those in charge and making the decisions. The government may think we're in level 5 but what I can see, the public are on about 3 or even 2, albeit with limited buisnesses to frequent.

    You genuinely think that officials are oblivious to what is going on? They do live in the same country as the rest of us and have eyes too you know.

    What is more likely is that this is being tolerated and not sanctioned. This keeps somewhat of a lid on it and in terms of least worst scenarios, keeps the behaviour outside.

    The country can tolerate this and indeed tolerate higher case numbers as long as the spread remains in young people (due to vaccine) and vaccine evasive variants are kept under control. It's a risky strategy though, and I can see why it cannot be publicly endorsed.


  • #8183
    BobbyMalone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 325 ✭✭BobbyMalone


    Doctors room ghost wrote: »
    It’s not the council’s fault.it’s the fcukin degenerates that can’t bring their rubbish with them and see it as someone else’s problem and leave it there after them.


    Particularly as it's lighter than when they brought it.

    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    Outdoor dining should be opening tomorrow. Simple as that.


    It may as well, as we now the fairly grim sight (for the people themselves) of people having their food and drink in parking lots or on footpaths outside shops. Far safer - I would have thought - to have them in designated outdoor areas attached to licenced premises. More hygienic too as judging from what they're leaving behind in addition to the rubbish, the places they're buying their food aren't allowing them to use toilets.


  • #8184
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    The idea that a good day out involves being surrounded by a crowd of strangers would always be lost on me .....pandemic or not
    That's not what they are thinking. They want to enjoy the amenity and are largely indifferent to others.


  • #8185
    manofwisdom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    harr wrote: »
    Probably a significant backlog building at this stage ? I hate when that happens because A it frightens the life of some people and B. An excuse for the government to give out to us and tell us we aren’t out of the woods , still need to hold firm , next two weeks are vital and it would be crazy to consider lifting restrictions to any meaningful level if he are still getting 600 + cases a day the odd day ..

    7 day average is under 500. Any day of 600+ cases now is previous days swabs added in. This week had a big increase in testing and most of it target testing with schools back and the Intel cluster outbreak.

    The restrictions to be eased in May are low risk outdoor activities many of which should have been eased about a month ago IMO


  • #8186
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,222 ✭✭✭prunudo


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    You genuinely think that officials are oblivious to what is going on? They do live in the same country as the rest of us and have eyes too you know.

    What is not likely is that this is being tolerated and not sanctioned. This keeps somewhat of a lid on it and in terms of least worst scenarios, keeps the behaviour outside.

    The country can tolerate this and indeed tolerate higher case numbers as long as the spread remains in young people (due to vaccine) and vaccine evasive variants are kept under control. It's a risky strategy though, and I can see why it cannot be publicly endorsed.

    Tbh, i think they think its only a certain cohort meeting up. Hence why they'll blame students or younger people. I think they believe the majority aren't visiting family or friends in private gardens and houses.
    Maybe as you say, they're just turning a blind eye to it, but their road maps don't tally with where the public seem to think the risk is.


  • #8187
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,695 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    429 new cases 1 death (RIP)
    174 COVID19 patients in hospital with 45 in ICU

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • #8188
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    The idea that a good day out involves being surrounded by a crowd of strangers would always be lost on me .....pandemic or not

    Well, yeah, if you were to stand in the middle of them on your own and not know anyone it probably wouldn't be most people's idea of fun.

    But I see mostly people in small groups of friends who in turn are beside other groups of people...like in a pub.

    Unless you only go into pubs where you're friends with everyone in that pub.


  • #8189
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Stheno wrote: »
    I'm aware its difficult to do but not doing contact tracing beyond two days until recently is one example of where it could have been enhanced

    By the vagueness I mean statements like Simon CoveneysMartin on Rte today. They appear to be incapable of actually planning anything more than a month in advance
    There are no plans to review the guidance on international travel till July

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0425/1211970-taoiseach-micheal-martin-the-week-in-politics/



    So they hope to be able to signal what may happen in June July and August in May

    Thats just ridiculous at this stage tbh


    So Dr Holohan came back just in time to make sure Ireland might suffer a crueller summer than last year? No indoor dining despite projected vaccination figures?
    People have stopped listening thanks to this ultra conservative approach. There are a litany of other problems cropping up. As soon as the vaccination 1st dose threshold is reached, our attention should be turned elsewhere and quickly.


  • #8190
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,695 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    If bins are full why can't individuals bring their rubbish home or to another near by bin

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



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  • #8191
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    If bins are full why can't individuals bring their rubbish home or to another near by bin





    Because they are lazy,entitled,good for nothing slobs.a fcukin plague on the planet.


This discussion has been closed.
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