What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

23-04-2021 08:32PM

Aegir wrote: »

I give up.

Your ability to deny the blatantly obvious is commendable.

https://fortune.com/2021/04/07/covid-vaccine-safety-is-astrazeneca-safe-coronavirus-vaccination-liability/

The eu have stated that cma does not absolve manufacturers of liability. The section of the contract detailing the scenarios in which liability is with the manufacturer is redacted, therefore we don’t know the true picture. All we know is what the eu has said.

Maybe the eu should make their best efforts to indemnify AZ. Based on AZ performance that may amount to 20%

23-04-2021 08:41PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://fortune.com/2021/04/07/covid-vaccine-safety-is-astrazeneca-safe-coronavirus-vaccination-liability/

The eu have stated that cma does not absolve manufacturers of liability. The section of the contract detailing the scenarios in which liability is with the manufacturer is redacted, therefore we don’t know the true picture. All we know is what the eu has said.

Maybe the eu should make their best efforts to indemnify AZ. Based on AZ performance that may amount to 20%

There are plenty of versions of the full unredacted contracts in circulation.

The EU state is liable for any claims for death and personal injury due to the use of the vaccine.

The manufacturer is liable if they are negligent or breach cGMP protocols and this results in any claims.

monkeybutter · 23-04-2021 08:46PM

Are you sad bastards not arguing the same thing over and over and over

Would ye not go out for a breath of fresh air

23-04-2021 08:53PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

Are you sad bastards not arguing the same thing over and over and over

Would ye not go out for a breath of fresh air

I just stepped in here in the last few minutes. These two are going all day

23-04-2021 08:57PM

Aegir wrote: »

There are plenty of versions of the full unredacted contracts in circulation.

The EU state is liable for any claims for death and personal injury due to the use of the vaccine.

The manufacturer is liable if they are negligent or breach cGMP protocols and this results in any claims.

The ax contract? You seem so certain, yet do do the commission

drunkmonkey · 24-04-2021 09:52AM

We're getting close to the what exactly is happening to pfizer thread, worrying development appearing in Israel, the link isn't proven yet but they have significant concerns about heart problems in men under 30.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-probing-link-between-pfizer-shot-and-heart-problem-in-men-under-30/

Where does this leave us in a month or so if confirmed, astra for people over 40 and pfizer the same.

24-04-2021 04:54PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We're getting close to the what exactly is happening to pfizer thread, worrying development appearing in Israel, the link isn't proven yet but they have significant concerns about heart problems in men under 30.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-probing-link-between-pfizer-shot-and-heart-problem-in-men-under-30/

Where does this leave us in a month or so if confirmed, astra for people over 40 and pfizer the same.

62 from 5 million. With a condition that is not uncommon in younger people and is usually triggered by infectious diseases including Covid

Frank Bullitt · 24-04-2021 06:13PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We're getting close to the what exactly is happening to pfizer thread, worrying development appearing in Israel, the link isn't proven yet but they have significant concerns about heart problems in men under 30.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-probing-link-between-pfizer-shot-and-heart-problem-in-men-under-30/

Where does this leave us in a month or so if confirmed, astra for people over 40 and pfizer the same.

Worth noting that Israel recorded no daily deaths from Covid today. First time in 10 months.

drunkmonkey · 24-04-2021 08:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

62 from 5 million. With a condition that is not uncommon in younger people and is usually triggered by infectious diseases including Covid

They said the impression is the number of cases is higher than they would have expected, so it might be common as you said but it seems to be more common than usual.

"There is specific concern regarding the frequency of the occurrence observed in men under 30 in the days immediately after the second shot,” they wrote. “At this stage, according to initial findings that still need to be verified, there is an impression that the number (of cases) is higher than would be expected, especially for those under 30.”

Good news on the 0 deaths from Covid with 42% vaccinated though, it might not take us that long to get there.

murphaph · 25-04-2021 07:10AM

I haven't seen it posted. Apologies if a duplicate.

Here in Germany a number of the states have removed age restrictions on AZ with the caveat that anyone under 60 needs to consult with a doctor about the risk/benefit for them personally and sign a waiver of indemnity.

AZ is thus now mostly being sent to GPs in those states.

My own state isn't among them yet but I hear it may join them and if it does I'll be trying to get a shot of AZ as for me the risks of Covid I estimate to be higher than the risk from the vaccine.

I would like to see Ireland adopt the same policy. No AZ will go to waste and nobody will be forced to take AZ or go to the back of the queue.

drunkmonkey · 25-04-2021 07:30AM

murphaph wrote: »

needs to consult with a doctor about the risk/benefit for them personally and sign a waiver of indemnity.

I'll be trying to get a shot of AZ as for me the risks of Covid I estimate to be higher than the risk from the vaccine.

I would like to see Ireland adopt the same policy. No AZ will go to waste and nobody will be forced to take AZ or go to the back of the queue.

I wouldn't sign a waiver when the medium/long term effects are completely unknown, it's impossible to do a risk/benefits analysis without all the data.
Out if interest what do you estimate your risk of ending up in ICU or death is, there seems to be a lot of different opinions on it.

Nothing wrong with Ireland having the same policy, if people want to sign away and get it let them, the back of the queue threat was unnecessary and counter productive, you'll be able to pick and choose what vaccines you want in a couple of months anyway.

Call me Al · 25-04-2021 10:33AM

Does anyone have info on data re the rate of these clotting disorders AstraZeneca v J&J?

Is one more problematic than the other?

I think I read the rate for J&J is 6 in 7m doses.

drunkmonkey · 25-04-2021 10:46AM

Call me Al wrote: »

Does anyone have info on data re the rate of these clotting disorders AstraZeneca v J&J?

Is one more problematic than the other?

I think I read the rate for J&J is 6 in 7m doses.

7.9 per million and increasing week on week for AZ, I'd like to know if there's any risk of further clotting down the line, most of the cancelled experts say there is.

volchitsa · 25-04-2021 11:04AM

murphaph wrote: »

I haven't seen it posted. Apologies if a duplicate.

Here in Germany a number of the states have removed age restrictions on AZ with the caveat that anyone under 60 needs to consult with a doctor about the risk/benefit for them personally and sign a waiver of indemnity.

AZ is thus now mostly being sent to GPs in those states.

My own state isn't among them yet but I hear it may join them and if it does I'll be trying to get a shot of AZ as for me the risks of Covid I estimate to be higher than the risk from the vaccine.

I would like to see Ireland adopt the same policy. No AZ will go to waste and nobody will be forced to take AZ or go to the back of the queue.

Interesting idea but what's the situation for those few people for whom there's actually a problem? Have you waived all your rights to any sort of compensation, or just limited them a bit? I'd be fine with the latter if it meant me getting vaccinated sooner, but I'm not sure I'd be happy to sign something that might leave my dependent children with nothing at all in the event of me being incapacitated (or dead) due a blood clot that we know is one of the risks of the vaccine.

Call me Al · 25-04-2021 11:53AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

7.9 per million and increasing week on week for AZ, I'd like to know if there's any risk of further clotting down the line, most of the cancelled experts say there is.

So the stats are indicating that the AstraZeneca risk is multiples of that posed by Johnson and Johnson.

Stark · 25-04-2021 12:29PM

Call me Al wrote: »

So the stats are indicating that the AstraZeneca risk is multiples of that posed by Johnson and Johnson.

Actual numbers for both are so small though that I wonder if that's just a statistical anomaly.

25-04-2021 01:22PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

7.9 per million and increasing week on week for AZ, I'd like to know if there's any risk of further clotting down the line, most of the cancelled experts say there is.

Surely then you can reference these expert?

In reality it is an out of control immune response to the vaccine that triggers the clotting. It either hope s or it doesn’t.

drunkmonkey · 25-04-2021 01:36PM

Call me Al wrote: »

So the stats are indicating that the AstraZeneca risk is multiples of that posed by Johnson and Johnson.

It's all on the person, risk changes by health, age, weight etc.
I'm not sure how accurate this is but my risk of death from Covid is 0.0026%, I'm more than twice as likely to get hit by lightning than die from Covid.
Oxford have a calculator here https://www.qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=/PatientInformation/PatientInformation

The current assumption is that the Risk of a cloth from the J&J is 0.0001875%

drunkmonkey · 25-04-2021 01:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely then you can reference these expert?

In reality it is an out of control immune response to the vaccine that triggers the clotting. It either hope s or it doesn’t.

Plenty of them they're just not allowed, either your agree with the mainstream Media and Government policy or your a conspiracy theorist.

There's no exit for the vaccine, where does it end up? Could it possibly cloth later if something triggers it, we still don't know how long they stay in your body. I think it's only fair to say we don't have all the answers yet.

25-04-2021 01:47PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Plenty of them they're just not allowed, either your agree with the mainstream Media and Government policy or your a conspiracy theorist.

There's no exit for the vaccine, where does it end up? Could it possibly cloth later if something triggers it, we still don't know how long they stay in your body. I think it's only fair to say we don't have all the answers yet.

Things drunkmonkey has absolutely no clue about #15,234

drunkmonkey · 25-04-2021 01:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Things drunkmonkey has absolutely no clue about #15,234

You'll have to explain that one. I see your claiming in a round about way via the simple put down that if a cloth doesn't happen soon after injection it can never happen. Provide your clues, I'd like to see it explained. It would reassure everyone.

Call me Al · 25-04-2021 01:54PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's all on the person, risk changes by health, age, weight etc.
I'm not sure how accurate this is but my risk of death from Covid is 0.0026%, I'm more than twice as likely to get hit by lightning than die from Covid.
Oxford have a calculator here https://www.qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=/PatientInformation/PatientInformation

The current assumption is that the Risk of a cloth from the J&J is 0.0001875%

I'm not wanting to know about you or any other individual's risk of clotting.

I just want to know how the two vaccines compare to one another wrt these types of clots.
Basically what the data is telling them.

Turtwig · 25-04-2021 01:56PM

Call me Al wrote: »

I'm not wanting to know about you or any other individual's risk of clotting.

I just want to know how the two vaccines compare to one another wrt these types of clots.
Basically what the data is telling them.

It's too early to tell at this point. The incidence rate for the J&J vaccine has yet to be determined.

25-04-2021 01:58PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You'll have to explain that one. I see your claiming in a round about way via the simple put down that if a cloth doesn't happen soon after injection it can never happen. Provide your clues, I'd like to see it explained. It would reassure everyone.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210422/scientists-find-how-astrazeneca-vaccine-causes-clots

drunkmonkey · 25-04-2021 02:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210422/scientists-find-how-astrazeneca-vaccine-causes-clots

Nearly never milked a cow, the simple and correct answer is they don't know yet. Your link backs up that assumption.

25-04-2021 02:42PM

The overall incidence rate for J&J is lower than AZ, but it's only affecting women under 50. When that's taken into account, the incidence rate for women in that cohort is 7 per million, which is closer to AZ's rate.

Link here containing the figures:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/jj-covid-vaccine-cdc-panel-recommends-resuming-use-of-jj-vaccine-.html

Bear in mind, in the US the whole "take what you're offered or get to the back of the queue" issue is irrelevant. They have options there. It's not difficult for someone who wants to avoid J&J to source a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine instead.

Here, I'm not sure what the logic would be in restricting AZ but allowing J&J for all age groups. For women under 50, both vaccines carry a similar level of risk, yet we're likely to be told that we can safely take one and not the other.

I like the waiver idea being used in Germany, give people the option but don't penalise them for their choice. J&J will be an attractive option for many people anyway, given that it's a single shot.

Bass Reeves · 26-04-2021 12:16PM

Look like the EU is going to put the boot in. They must have good legal opinion

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0426/1212147-eu-vaccine-astrazeneca/

26-04-2021 12:36PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Look like the EU is going to put the boot in. They must have good legal opinion

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0426/1212147-eu-vaccine-astrazeneca/

this will be a fascinating case to watch.

robinph · 26-04-2021 12:56PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Look like the EU is going to put the boot in. They must have good legal opinion

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0426/1212147-eu-vaccine-astrazeneca/

Not sure what they would hope to achieve though, other than ensuring that next time around nobody dares to offer vaccines at cost.

A contract that said the supplier would try their best to produce something that hadn't at that point been produced by anyone, and wasn't clear if the product would work, and the purchasers around the world were throwing money at multiple different suppliers along similar lines hoping that one of them would work but prepared to lose their money if they ended up not working.

Every country was gambling loads of money in the hope that at least one vaccine would work. Not sure anyone has much to complain about when the numbers that were being gambled on didn't quite come up.

Now if they are just arguing that the supply between the EU and UK should have been more evenly distributed then that is a different matter. But complaining about only getting 70m instead of 300m of something that didn't exist when the contracts were signed isn't a great argument in relation to during the covid pandemic. Even if the EU had taken all of the UK supply it wouldn't have made any difference to the EU's lack of those 300m, the vaccines still didn't exist and they would have only got 90m rather than 70m.

Is Sanofi getting sued for having ceased their vaccine development and so not supplying anything? I assume there are other manufacturers as well which gave up earlier on.

robinph · 26-04-2021 01:07PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Your arguments go out window the moment you said “at cost”, explain the difference in price Eu and uk agreed on

Sorry for being too specific with the phrase "at cost" when I should have said "vastly cheaper than anyone else is providing vaccines for and not for the purpose of raking in billions in profit whilst people around the world are dying".

Thought that was a bit too wordy though.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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