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Cyclists, insurance and road tax

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    #152
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also, the registration is also a big thing for identification, the guards could also use this for issueing fines, but I sure I will be told that cyclists don't break any traffic rules, why would you be against registering your bycicle?

    How do the gardai catch people who aren't Inna vehicle? No way to identify them.


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    #153
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @Seth, your obsest with cost, why do we have to follow other countries, why can't we lead in this,


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    #154
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    You may well be a good cyclist. Unfortunately there are very many on the roads who are absolutely terrible cyclists. I’ll never understand why cyclists feel the need to defend all cyclists no matter how bad they are. They must see how bad a lot of them are too jut are just in some extreme form of denial.
    Just like there are good drivers and bad drivers.
    The effect from one of these bad drivers can be so much worse that all the bad cyclists put together. Where is your thread on them?

    In what way might a terrible cyclist affect you?
    In what way might a terrible driver affect you?


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    #155
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    ted1 wrote: »
    You need to look further into it.
    1. Cyclists takes more risks when wearing one.
    2. Drivers give cyclists who are wearing helmets less space
    3. Helmets deter the uptake of cycling , particularly with teenage girls , soo all the health benefits are lost.

    I doubt he - or 99% of people who raise these kind of arguments - has any intention of looking further into it.

    It's mostly a demonstration of confirmation bias. As an earlier poster pointed out - all this drama about insurance, hi viz and helmets being safe for cyclists and pedestrians, it's not about a concern for other people at all. It's just looking for a way to make other people's lives more difficult. The lack of any reasoned, informed discussion on any of these threads is evidence of that.


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    #156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why stop there, why not have tax, insurance and an annual "health NCT" for pedestrians?

    OP nothing stopping you getting on your bike. Just put the McDonalds to one side for a while first.


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    #157
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, your obsest with cost, why do we have to follow other countries, why can't we lead in this,
    Everything in society is done on a cost/benefit basis. With your proposal, there is a large cost and very little benefit.
    You have not been able to articulate why we as a society would be better off with this system yet I and others have shown that this would have a negative effect on society.
    If Ireland were to do it, no other country would follow. It is kinda like Brexit - noboey else thinks its a good idea apart from the ones who wanted it (and the original idea had nothing to do with the outcome). With your proposal, I suspect that you aren't concerned with bike safety or anything like this but simply want less cyclists out there as you find them a PITA when you're driving.


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    #158
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @ted1, really, that's your argument, a little bit of discomfort that could save you life, tells me everything

    So you DO wear a helmet in your car and you WILL be wearing face masks at all times in public post-pandemic.

    You don't seem to want to respond to any of my replies to your posts, but the above is good to know.


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    #159
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,630 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Hoboo wrote: »
    If they go through someone's windscreen? Yep.

    Does that happen often?


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    #160
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Helmets and high vis again is just something drivers want enforced so that less people will cycle and their lives will be more difficult.
    The same people who feign concern for OAPs and the disabled when any talk of restricting car access to somewhere comes up.


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    #161
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    148 fatalities in Ireland in 2020 resulting in car collisions 10 of which were cyclists and 32 Pedestrians.

    28% of people killed by car drivers where vunerable road users.

    Now compair that to how many people cyclists killed last year. I will help you out with that figure it was 0


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    #162
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    One thing I always find funny in these threads is the assumption that cyclists are not drivers. .

    I cycle and own a SUV:P. Quite the dilemma. In saying that, when we're back to work, you couldn't pay me to drive in Dublin commuter traffic. Absolutely soul destroying and probably behind a lot of the frustration there. Nothing more annoying than a chirpy cyclist passing 100 cars queueing in the phoenix park when you know you're only at the start of your daily commuting nightmare.


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    #163
    statto25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭statto25


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I cycle and own a SUV:P


    tenor.gif
    :D


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    #164
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @Seth, your options are so far away from reality, nobody here suggests that they want less cyclists on the road, why do you say this? People giving there option which disagrees to cyclists is condemned straight out, you have cyclists on here suggesting it is safer to not were a helmet, how is that been a roll model for kids? People have different options but anyone who tries to suggest anything regarding cycling is out to get them, just because something has not been done before or is not been done in other countries does not mean it does not need to be done,


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    #165
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,630 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    2. Cyclists can get 50% off the price of a new bike via the BTW scheme. Note, there's nobody checking if they use this bike to get to work!

    That is factually untrue.


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    #166
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Fian


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Car drivers were set belts, have air bags in there car, have day time lights on, are you suggesting that kids should not were a helmet?? Please inlighting me

    It's spelled "enlighten", "inlighten" sounds like what Trump suggested would cure covid. Which suggestion was about as sensible as many of those you have proposed.

    Nobody is suggesting that children should be prohibited from wearing helmets, just that cyclists should not be prohibited from getting on a bike without one. this is because the health benefits of cycling far outweigh the risks of cycling without a helmet and if helmets were mandatory it would spell the end of people casually jumping on a bike like under the dublin bikes scheme.

    Edit: since drivers are also at risk in the event of a collision perhaps we should introduce mandatory motorbike style helmets for drivers too? After all if it only saves one life............. /s


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    #167
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    So the people that you look up to in the tour de France are been inconvenienced by weeing helmets, wowwww

    Well in fairness a hell of a lot of accidents happen to people when on the toilet, so it's only right they should be made mandatory.


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    #168
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,630 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Agree cyclist are not likely to kill but are very likely to injure people and cause danage while zig zagging through traffic

    Could you show any evidence to support these claims please?


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    #169
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @Hurrache, maybe we should all wrap up in bubble wrap before we go out, time to buy shares in a bubble wrap company..


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    #170
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Helmets and high vis again is just something drivers want enforced so that less people will cycle and their lives will be more difficult.
    The same people who feign concern for OAPs and the disabled when any talk of restricting car access to somewhere comes up.

    Why would less people cycle? I'm an avid cyclist and I've nothing but contempt for the clowns who go around wearing all black like they are a thief in the night. I wear high vis nearly all through winter, purely because I feel safer doing so. I don't agree with mandatory enforcement, but at the same time people should be wearing helmets and making themselves as visible as possible.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #171
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,367 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @ted1, really, that's your argument, a little bit of discomfort that could save you life, tells me everything

    It’s not my argument, it’s findings from independent studies.
    Tell me a lot about you , ignoring research to push your agenda


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    #172
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    Fully agree that cyclists should have insurance and pay road tax. I’d go a step further and have them sit a test and undergo NCTs for their bikes too. The vast majority of them display either pure ignorance or total disregard for the rules of the road, putting themselves, pedestrians and drivers at risk.

    Funny you should mention ignorance.

    I'd say the height of ignorance is ignoring just about every study that's been conducted worldwide which conclude universally that people on bikes taken as a group ("cyclists") break road laws at the same or slightly lower rate than people in cars ("motorists").

    But sure, keep going LALALALA with the fingers stuck in the ears.

    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    If the same rules applied to them as say motor cyclists it might sharpen their behavior.


    And just on this- To borrow a turn of phrase from Jeff Daniels in that clip about America:

    If motorists are so well behaved, then in low speed residential areas how come we need to have speed bumps so goddamn everywhere ?


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    #173
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Hurrache, maybe we should all wrap up in bubble wrap before we go out, time to buy shares in a bubble wrap company..

    Yeah, but how are they going to enforce bubble wrap tax? And as it's a safety feature, are you ok with dropping the VAT on it?


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    #174
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,367 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Paddigol wrote: »
    So you DO wear a helmet in your car and you WILL be wearing face masks at all times in public post-pandemic.

    You don't seem to want to respond to any of my replies to your posts, but the above is good to know.

    If drivers wore neck brace we could eliminate whiplash and the associated claims


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    #175
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @tom Tom Tim, be careful your talking too much sense, they will come for you soon.


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    #176
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,630 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    And cycling insurance should be a lot cheaper than car insurance.

    What risk do you want cyclists to insure against please? Do pedestrians need insurance to cover the risks of causing collisions resulting in injury or damage by stepping out onto the road or cycle lane?


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    #177
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    ted1 wrote: »
    You need to look further into it.
    1. Cyclists takes more risks when wearing one.
    2. Drivers give cyclists who are wearing helmets less space
    3. Helmets deter the uptake of cycling , particularly with teenage girls , soo all the health benefits are lost.

    I agree for the most part, but it's also important to point out that you mean large scale health benefits, not on an individual level.

    If I fall off my bike, which I do regularly in the mountains, I sure as hell want my helmet. I'll get torrents of abuse about this along the lines of "doctors are not statisticians", but on multiple occasions in hospital for cycling injuries, almost every doctor and surgeon told me an anecdote about patients who didn't wear a helmet being in a bad way.

    Should they be mandatory, not a chance. As you say, I'd probably hop in the car or get a bus rather than have to grab the helmet and then carry it around the shop or pub.


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    #178
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    Why would less people cycle? I'm an avid cyclist and I've nothing but contempt for the clowns who go around wearing all black like they are a thief in the night. I wear high vis nearly all through winter, purely because I feel safer doing so. I don't agree with mandatory enforcement, but at the same time people should be wearing helmets and making themselves as visible as possible.

    Less people would cycle because most people don't carry a helmet/high vis around with them. Dublin Bikes would be rendered obsolete too.
    I've always said that if you can't see a cyclist on the road, no matter what he's wearing or the time of day or night, you probably shouldn't be driving.


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    #179
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    And there lies the problem


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    #180
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Do people have the same ire about tractors on the road? Tractors are slower and harder to overtake.

    Honestly, if you find cyclists make driving difficult, then maybe your shouldn't be driving.


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    #181
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,630 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    It should be. Not wearing a helmet should invalidate your policy in the event of an accident too.

    Eventually it will happen.

    Same for motorists presumably, given that vastly more head injuries happen in cars than on bikes, even with seat belts and air bags - failure to wear a crash helmet would invalidate motor insurance?

    Why do you think this eventually will happen when no country in the world requires cyclists to be insured?


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