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Cyclists, insurance and road tax

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12357…65

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    #122
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Set, you say most clubs are covered and you are covered when out, so you do agree with insurance,???

    How much damage do bikes, on average, cause as a result of RTA every year?

    How many people are killed and/ or seriously injured by cyclists every year?

    Have you looked for any research into the above? Have you any stats/ evidence?

    Do you understand the difference between third party motor insurance and the type of insurance required by cycling clubs to cover members on club spins?


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    #123
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Helmets save lives, fact, I can't believe cyclist on here are against the wearing of them, very interesting, you don't need to be traveling 100kpm to get a head injury,


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    #124
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also, the registration is also a big thing for identification, the guards could also use this for issueing fines, but I sure I will be told that cyclists don't break any traffic rules, why would you be against registering your bycicle?
    It is a pointless argument put forwards by people who dislike being slightly inconvenienced by a person on a bike (strangely these people don't exhibit the same ill-will todards other drivers who hold them up). It is stupid and unnecessary trying to impose administrative obligations on a slow moving form of transport for next to no benefit.
    As for the rule breaking, I never suggested that people on bikes don't break the rules but bear in mind that the rates have been shown to be miniscule compared to people when their driving and in addition when those driving go wrong it tends to have a much bigger impact.
    What you are proposing will discourage bike usage, contribute to an already massive obesity problem and establish an expensive new government system which wont really be of any use bar the occasional garda looking up someone's name for a minor offence.


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    #125
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    It's hard not to engage with these threads, people hate you because you use a bike to get to work or go to the shops, I'll never understand it.

    I'll never understand it. People would respect you more if they in their 20% full car are stuck behind you in your 20% full car.


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    #126
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    How much damage do cyclists cause to cars as they zigzag between then, its about taking responsibility for you actions on the road, be able to be identified if by chance to cause damage as you pass through traffic, but I'm sure that never happens


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    #127
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also, the registration is also a big thing for identification, the guards could also use this for issueing fines, but I sure I will be told that cyclists don't break any traffic rules, why would you be against registering your bycicle?

    What benefit is insurance for a kid on a public road? genuine question.


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    #128
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also, the registration is also a big thing for identification, the guards could also use this for issueing fines, but I sure I will be told that cyclists don't break any traffic rules, why would you be against registering your bycicle?

    I know I'm wasting my time even typing this but...
    Why would the Garda even bother, when bikes aren't harming anyone, all they're doing is benefitting society?
    There are thousands of unlicensed/uninsured motorists on the roads, they can't even catch them or put a stop to that, and it's motor vehicles that are killing and maiming people almost every day in Ireland.
    1 in 13 motorists in uninsured
    So why would they bother with monitoring cameras all day to try and catch cyclists breaking a red light, when they are really struggling to apply the law to motorists who are actually a danger?


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    #129
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Bank robbery. Bikes are excellent for getaways in towns and cities chockablock with motor traffic. They can zig zag between all the stationary cars.
    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    They could be dealing drugs. Nipping around cities delivering class A product.
    Theres one example

    Do you think any of the people involved in these activities would use their own bicycles? :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #130
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Helmets save lives, fact, I can't believe cyclist on here are against the wearing of them, very interesting, you don't need to be traveling 100kpm to get a head injury,
    Whilst I did not object to their use, I refer you back to the Dutch. Why do they not wear them?
    Also, many drivers receive head injures during an impact. Surely car occupants should wear helmets? It surely might save their life.


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    #131
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also, the registration is also a big thing for identification, the guards could also use this for issueing fines, but I sure I will be told that cyclists don't break any traffic rules, why would you be against registering your bycicle?

    So basically you want another form of id just because Irish don't like something that's called ID Card. So instead of bringing in mandatory IDs you would like additional insurance and registration.

    Anything else? Registering as a pedestrian if you intend to cross the road?


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    #132
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭oisinog


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also, the registration is also a big thing for identification, the guards could also use this for issueing fines, but I sure I will be told that cyclists don't break any traffic rules, why would you be against registering your bycicle?

    Cyclists break road rules all the time, but 25% of all car drivers break red lights.

    So if you want all cyclists to be registered who pays for this, who manages the data base, who creates the register documents.

    The reason Cyclists don’t have a registration is we completed the minority of the road crimes. A car driver is more likely to break a speed limit or go through a red light that a cyclist is.

    I am insured for cycling, the home insurance I have given me public liability insurance and insurance on valuable good outside my home.

    Also insurance is calculated on a risk basis, the risk of me doing damage on my bike to a car or property is quite low so therefore the insurance risk is quite low and it would cost the insurer more to administrate the policy that they would make from it.


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    #133
    ek motor
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    They hate me even though I drive more than I cycle. :(


    Enough of this victim mentality nonsense. No one hates you. Merely suggesting you should be insured/licenced/accountable for yourself and your chosen vehicle like motorists are.


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    #134
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Helmets save lives, fact, I can't believe cyclist on here are against the wearing of them, very interesting, you don't need to be traveling 100kpm to get a head injury,

    I wear one when cycling.

    Do you wear one when driving? Why not?? Driving is a hell of a lot less dangerous than cycling. And a hell of a lot more people suffer serious head injuries as a result of RTAs between cars.

    Do you agree that it should be illegal to have a grey coloured car as they are much more difficult to see than, for example, a red car or a yellow car? Such a simple and obvious way to reduce accidents and injuries. Surely they should be illegal. In fact, surely all cars should be the same colour - ideally something very bright. Correct?

    Are you going to keep wearing face masks in public when the pandemic is over? Why not - they're proven to reduce infection from all sorts of viruses?

    Your logic is seriously deficient.


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    #135
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ek motor wrote: »
    Enough of this victim mentality nonsense. No one hates you. Merely suggesting you should be insured/licenced/accountable for yourself and your chosen vehicle like motorists are.

    People do hate cyclists, vehemently. I don't cycle on country roads but they are loathed in rural Ireland for holding people up, and loathed in cities because we can fly past them while they're stuck in traffic and many of us break red lights when it's safe to do so. Motorists are committed disciples to the rules of the road you see and can't deal with seeing bicycles getting away with breaking rules.


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    #136
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Do you think any of the people involved in these activities would use their own bicycles? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    A system similarly to ANPR would also highlight stolen bicycles to police. I understand bicycle theft is a bit of an issue in Ireland at present


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    #137
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @Seth, why is it a pointless argument, a lot of people would like to see this implament, there are a lot of incidences that occcure everyday of the week but don't get reported due to the fact that there is no way to identafie these culprits, as for cycling being the solution to obesity, we'll maybe you need to rethink that, people are not been put out by cyclists as you suggest they just want accountability,


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    #138
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The funny thing is - cyclists cant get insurance even if they want to.

    Insurance companies dont offer it/ wont offer it.

    The reason is that the risk of bike theft in Ireland is so high.

    And yet here we have a punter beating us with his big online stick because 'cyclists dont even have insurance'.

    Needless to say, OP didnt check any of this before the offical launch of the rant.

    Join cycling Ireland, you’ll get free insurance
    http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/insurance

    Any cyclist who is in a club has insurance


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    #139
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    It's hard not to engage with these threads, people hate you because you use a bike to get to work or go to the shops, I'll never understand it.

    You may well be a good cyclist. Unfortunately there are very many on the roads who are absolutely terrible cyclists. I’ll never understand why cyclists feel the need to defend all cyclists no matter how bad they are. They must see how bad a lot of them are too jut are just in some extreme form of denial.


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    #140
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    ek motor wrote: »
    ....No one hates you....

    lol. Go read any media article about cycling and you'll see nothing but bile directed at cyclists. But a car killing someone - even if the driver is speeding / drunk / banned (all three not that uncommon) is almost acceptable and barely garners comment.


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    #141
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Car drivers were set belts, have air bags in there car, have day time lights on, are you suggesting that kids should not were a helmet?? Please inlighting me


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    #142
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Helmets save lives, fact, I can't believe cyclist on here are against the wearing of them, very interesting, you don't need to be traveling 100kpm to get a head injury,

    You need to look further into it.
    1. Cyclists takes more risks when wearing one.
    2. Drivers give cyclists who are wearing helmets less space
    3. Helmets deter the uptake of cycling , particularly with teenage girls , soo all the health benefits are lost.


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    #143
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    One thing I always find funny in these threads is the assumption that cyclists are not drivers.

    In most cases, like myself people have cars, pay road tax, car insurance etc. but also have a bike and ​don't pay anything for this as the rules say there is nothing to pay, its just a personal choice not to be as lazy as some others.

    The road tax is an actual carbon tax associated with ICE so not ever going to be applicable.

    I also own an e scooter (great bits of kit) - and pay nothing on this as there is no ICE and no companies have any plan to provide any insurance.

    Bitterness is usually the root cause of these discussions. Rarely anything substantial.


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    #144
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Car drivers were set belts, have air bags in there car, have day time lights on, are you suggesting that kids should not were a helmet?? Please inlighting me

    In a car perhaps. Lots of research out there about car passengers and how helmets can have different out comes for them in a collision. Can never understand why people don't focus on this more.


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    #145
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, I do agree with having insurance, and yes if a kid is out on a public road it would be required also,

    I can't believe someone actually went all the way here!
    Kids should get insurance on a bike?


    :pac: :pac:


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    #146
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    ek motor wrote: »
    Enough of this victim mentality nonsense. No one hates you. Merely suggesting you should be insured/licenced/accountable for yourself and your chosen vehicle like motorists are.

    So your logic is that because you, as a motorist, are subject to motoring-specific legal obligations, you want cyclists to be subject to them too, regardless of the lack of any evidence to suggest that there's merit in such an approach (see previous posts about zero impact on road surface, zero carbon, negligible damage to other road users).

    Extending that logic, if cyclists were equally hammered with obligations to pay 'road' tax, third party insurance, carry registration plates - you'd then be quite happy for them to take primary position on the centre of the road??

    Of course you wouldn't - it's a ridiculous suggestion. Much like the suggestion that bikes should be the subject of the same tax, insurance and registration obligations as apply to cars.


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    #147
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    there are a lot of incidences that occcure everyday of the week but don't get reported due to the fact that there is no way to identafie these culprits


    You can't just invent makebelieve facts to back up your pretty terrible argument


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    #148
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    oisinog wrote: »
    Cyclists break road rules all the time, but 25% of all car drivers break red lights.
    I don't!
    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Seth, why is it a pointless argument, a lot of people would like to see this implament, there are a lot of incidences that occcure everyday of the week but don't get reported due to the fact that there is no way to identafie these culprits, as for cycling being the solution to obesity, we'll maybe you need to rethink that, people are not been put out by cyclists as you suggest they just want accountability,
    How much will it cost to create, administer and enforce.
    What are the benefits?
    You refer to some incidents that allegedly occur every day but why then is every country around the world not using your proposal?
    Honestly, think it through.


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    #149
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @ted1, really, that's your argument, a little bit of discomfort that could save you life, tells me everything


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    #150
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    You may well be a good cyclist. Unfortunately there are very many on the roads who are absolutely terrible cyclists. I’ll never understand why cyclists feel the need to defend all cyclists no matter how bad they are. They must see how bad a lot of them are too jut are just in some extreme form of denial.

    Terrible how? The only accidents I ever see, or people being arrested for being drunk or high while driving are involving motorists?
    Have you ever looked at the Garda Traffic Twitter? A constant stream of drunk/high motorists, uninsured, unlicensed, but they never have anything about dangerous cyclists.


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    #151
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,606 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Totally agree, when you purchase a bike you should need to have it registered and a number attached so you can be identified just like a motor vehicle, cyclists that use public roads should have insurance. Anyone who cycles on public roads should have a licence or certificate to say that they are proficent in the rules of the road, but unfortunately we have no one in government including that clown in the green party to implament these things, oh and cyclists need to be allocated 90% of the road for their use.

    What problems would these additional regulations solve, given that we have 98% of registered, insured licensed drivers breaking speed limits here?


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