Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Zipppy · 19-04-2021 08:53AM

Szero wrote: »

Does anyone have an opinion on how long the interval between doses should be extended too for Pfizer and Moderna?

The media are saying that the extension will be from 4 weeks to 8 weeks or 12 weeks.

It seems like there is more medical evidence supporting 8 weeks, so maybe 8 weeks is the better interval?

I think they'll stretch to 8 weeks and maybe longer again at a later stage.
I do think though that they'll give guidance that the vulnerable/extremely vulnerable should be left at 4 weeks...which it should be!

is_that_so · 19-04-2021 08:54AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I registered my mother in law on Thursday the 15th (she's 69) and she got her appointment confirmation on Saturday afternoon (17th) by text with the appointment on Wednesday coming (21st). All pretty slick so far.

By all accounts the MVCs are very smooth and well-oiled setups.

sd1999 · 19-04-2021 09:01AM

vienne86 wrote: »

If it's any comfort, there are many in the 65-69 cohort who would happily wait another couple of weeks to get Pfizer instead of getting Astrazeneca tomorrow. As someone quipped over the weekend, it feels like 60-69 year olds are not old to be vulnerable and not young enough to be valuable!

It would be a few months before they could get a Pfizer one though. There’s younger people who’d kill to be in the position of the 65-69s and be able to get any vaccine in the next two weeks. It just comes across as extremely entitled to feel that you have the luxury of being able to wait for the one you want. I understand there’s some hesitancy around AZ but it is safe for them and they are at a much higher risk of covid for much longer if they wait for a different vaccine. I do wonder if the reluctance to take AZ could be in part due to the three month wait to be fully vaccinated, in which case they would probably still be fully vaccinated with AZ before they get offered a different vaccine.

majo · 19-04-2021 09:03AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I registered my mother in law on Thursday the 15th (she's 69) and she got her appointment confirmation on Saturday afternoon (17th) by text with the appointment on Wednesday coming (21st). All pretty slick so far.

That’s great to hear. Is it for one of the Dublin MVCs?

namloc1980 · 19-04-2021 09:03AM

majo wrote: »

That’s great to hear. Is it for one of the Dublin MVCs?

Cork City Hall.

Lumen · 19-04-2021 09:05AM

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The original plan was AZ to the gps for the over 70s so planning deliveries etc would have been trivial.

When you're under pressure deadline wise, you're not going to waste time adding features that are unlikely to be used.

Hindsight is 20:20

Ah, I see. So the issue is the Pfizer storage requirements? Fair enough.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-04-2021 09:19AM

Does anyone know when 69s year olds will be offered an appointment.

My mother has a minor medical procedure scheduled for Friday. She doesn't want to reject an appointment but at the same time she doesn't want to experience the side effects while fasting or recovering from the procedure.

vienne86 · 19-04-2021 09:24AM

sd1999 wrote: »

It would be a few months before they could get a Pfizer one though. There’s younger people who’d kill to be in the position of the 65-69s and be able to get any vaccine in the next two weeks. It just comes across as extremely entitled to feel that you have the luxury of being able to wait for the one you want. I understand there’s some hesitancy around AZ but it is safe for them and they are at a much higher risk of covid for much longer if they wait for a different vaccine. I do wonder if the reluctance to take AZ could be in part due to the three month wait to be fully vaccinated, in which case they would probably still be fully vaccinated with AZ before they get offered a different vaccine.

I think the hesitancy minor given the numbers registered already......which is great to see.

seamus · 19-04-2021 09:26AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone know when 69s year olds will be offered an appointment.

My mother has a minor medical procedure scheduled for Friday. She doesn't want to reject an appointment but at the same time she doesn't want to experience the side effects while fasting or recovering from the procedure.

Some of the first people to register reported getting an appointment to be vaccinated the next day, but if you take namloc's experience above, she can probably expect to have an appointment within a week of registering on the portal.

vienne86 · 19-04-2021 09:26AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone know when 69s year olds will be offered an appointment.

My mother has a minor medical procedure scheduled for Friday. She doesn't want to reject an appointment but at the same time she doesn't want to experience the side effects while fasting or recovering from the procedure.

When you register you are told you will get at least three days notice, so maybe just delay registration until the end of the week.

Russman · 19-04-2021 09:32AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone know when 69s year olds will be offered an appointment.

FWIW my 69 year old mother was registered on the portal on Thursday morning, got a text Friday evening for an appointment tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon. Anecdotally there's plenty of similar stories so it does seem to be a fairly quick and smooth process which is great to see.

PMBC · 19-04-2021 09:40AM

Good news it seems on the possibility of achieving 80% by end June, or at least being offered an appointment by that date. According to Prof Luke O'Neill this morning that target might be reached by end of May. I think it depends on increasing the interval between shots.
I am being cautious here -- 'it seems' and 'might'. But even thinking in those terms is heartening.
Also despite the forecasts, of the portal crashing or not working well, the opposite seems to be the case reading users posts here.

Turtwig · 19-04-2021 09:47AM

Elessar wrote: »

The f*cking ultra conservative NIAC will undoubtedly limit its use if the FDA do it, which will make it practically useless for us. If the FDA say 50+, NIAC will say 60+. Our only hope is that there are no restrictions recommended by the FDA and EMA, which might put pressure on NIAC but I'm not holding my breath.

As a 30-something I would happily take J&J, but it seems I'm not allowed to make that decision for myself.

Every advisory body does the same calculation. The methods may vary a little. The principles are more or less the same. As every country and region is different the result will be. In the midst of a pandemic the areas with higher profile disease incidences or lack of alternative vaccines supplies will have the lower age restrictions.

NIAC were overly conservative in my view. I wouldn't go as far as ultra conservative. However, the point here is even if NIAC were a reincarnated carbon copy of the FDA the age restrictions result for Ireland would be expected to be different to that in the US.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-04-2021 09:48AM

vienne86 wrote: »

When you register you are told you will get at least three days notice, so maybe just delay registration until the end of the week.

She made the mistake of already registering (on the first day).

No appointment yet. She is hoping not to get one before next week now. Or if they do offer an appointment She is hoping that refusing it won't put her at the back or the que.

is_that_so · 19-04-2021 09:57AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

She made the mistake of already registering (on the first day).

No appointment yet. She is hoping not to get one before next week now. Or if they do offer an appointment She is hoping that refusing it won't put her at the back or the que.

IIRC Paul Reid did say something about being able to change dates. Maybe a quick call to the HSE to clarify? It's not as if she's saying no.

majo · 19-04-2021 09:59AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

She made the mistake of already registering (on the first day).

No appointment yet. She is hoping not to get one before next week now. Or if they do offer an appointment She is hoping that refusing it won't put her at the back or the que.

Isn’t there a HSE number to phone (for people who can’t register online but for I imagine deal with other queries also).
You could phone and explain your difficulty. I’m sure lots of people have certain days that don’t suit for various reasons.
It’s open 8am to 8pm. I heard someone on the radio a couple of days ago saying that mornings are busy but quieter after that.

19-04-2021 10:09AM

Very informative thread here on the B.1.617 aka the Indian variant aka the "Double Mutant"(:rolleyes:). Some key points:

B.1.617 has existed in India at low levels from several months. The fact that it hasn't grown in spread sooner suggests it's not as transmissible as B.1.1.7.
India's sequencing is very poor. There have been <1000 samples from over 4 million cases since February. There's large room for biases in sampling that could paint an inaccurate picture of spread (88% of March samples come from only one state). It is unclear what role the variant actually plays in India's current surge.
The E484Q and L452R spike mutations have been associated with some degree of reduced neutralization to monoclonal antibodies. Vaccines are polyclonal plus there's also innate immunity (T-cells, etc) to back it up. This makes it unlikely to "escape" vaccines.
On that topic E484Q has not turned up in experiments selecting better ACE2 binding compared to E484K. This suggests it may not offer the same fitness advantage. Also B.1.617 lacks N501Y which plays a key role in increasing binding affinity in the other VOCs.
There was a rise in cases of the variant in the UK this week but according to Susan Hopkins most of these are associated with travel from India.
It should be watched carefully but for the moment at least the evidence points to it not being as problematic as other VOCs.

https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1383872820724174854?s=20

PhilOssophy · 19-04-2021 10:11AM

Good to hear the vaccine portal is going well, I am delighted that most of us who feared it would crash/be beset with problems/etc were wrong. In addition, the people who I know who have been to their MVC have commented how slick and well oiled the operations are.
Kudos to all involved. If the HSE applied such efficiencies across their entire health delivery portfolio, we'd have a great health service!

iamwhoiam · 19-04-2021 10:15AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

She made the mistake of already registering (on the first day).

No appointment yet. She is hoping not to get one before next week now. Or if they do offer an appointment She is hoping that refusing it won't put her at the back or the que.

I registered on Saturday ( right age group ) and have heard nothing since .

is_that_so · 19-04-2021 10:18AM

Hardyn wrote: »

Very informative thread here on the B.1.617 aka the Indian variant aka the "Double Mutant"(:rolleyes:). Some key points:
B.1.617 has existed in India at low levels from several months. The fact that it hasn't grown in spread sooner suggests it's not as transmissible as B.1.1.7.

India's sequencing is very poor. There have been <1000 samples from over 4 million cases since February. There's large room for biases in sampling that could paint an inaccurate picture of spread (88% of March samples come from only one state). It is unclear what role the variant actually plays in India's current surge.

The E484Q and L452R spike mutations have been associated with some degree of reduced neutralization to monoclonal antibodies. Vaccines are polyclonal plus there's also innate immunity (T-cells, etc) to back it up. This makes it unlikely to "escape" vaccines.

On that topic E484Q has not turned up in experiments selecting better ACE2 binding compared to E484K. This suggests it may not offer the same fitness advantage. Also B.1.617 lacks N501Y which plays a key role in increasing binding affinity in the other VOCs.

There was a rise in cases of the variant in the UK this week but according to Susan Hopkins most of these are associated with travel from India.

It should be watched carefully but for the moment at least the evidence points to it not being as problematic as other VOCs.

https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1383872820724174854?s=20

Good information. More's the pity there isn't the same analysis applied to every other variant that raises it head.

Klonker · 19-04-2021 10:24AM

Paul Moynagh, Professor of Immunology and Director of the Kathleen Lonsdale Institute for Human Health research at Maynooth University was on Newstalk Breakfast this morning. He expects J&J to have similar restrictions on who can get it to AZ. He wants to see the age restrictions for both of these vaccines to be reduced down to closer to the UK limit of 30.

Its only 7 minutes long and worth a listen. Paul is a very good commentator and has a very balanced view in my opinion though doesn't get the airtime the zero covid experts get. Anthony Staines was on the same show this morning saying the government's reopening plans are too quick if you could believe that!

https://castbox.fm/vbb/374437168

lbj666 · 19-04-2021 10:33AM

vienne86 wrote: »

If it's any comfort, there are many in the 65-69 cohort who would happily wait another couple of weeks to get Pfizer instead of getting Astrazeneca tomorrow. As someone quipped over the weekend, it feels like 60-69 year olds are not old to be vulnerable and not young enough to be valuable!

The vast majority of cases of CSVTs found were under the age of 60 more into under 50s even.

So the even rarer risk of CSVT in +60s and the higher associated risk with covid in that cohort is what is has led to it to remain to be recommended for over 60. Not just the later, so this perception that its being fobbed off has little basis.

More people would die from covid as a consequence of stopping AZ all together or giving a choice and waiting for mRNA supplies filter from higher priority cohorts into the 60-69 age bracket.

19-04-2021 10:34AM

I cant believe Staines is peddling the below.

https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1383891376576753668

Completely ignoring the fact that the changes of being exposed in the first place are reduced

stephenjmcd · 19-04-2021 10:53AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I cant believe Staines is peddling the below.

https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1383891376576753668

Completely ignoring the fact that the changes of being exposed in the first place are reduced

I stopped paying attention to anything him or that crowd said a long time ago.

Even this morning now they all seem to be playing up the Indian variant. They really love the spotlight & will jump on anything to keep themselves in it no matter what.

Micky 32 · 19-04-2021 10:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I cant believe Staines is peddling the below.

https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1383891376576753668

Completely ignoring the fact that the changes of being exposed in the first place are reduced

….and we had McConkey peddling at least another 3-5 years of lockdown/restrictions post vaccination the other day.

thejuggler · 19-04-2021 10:56AM

RTÉ reporting 100 million additional Pfizer vaccines (1 million for ROI) to be delivered by end of year.

Is this new or already factored in ?

Micky 32 · 19-04-2021 10:58AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I stopped paying attention to anything him or that crowd said a long time ago.

Even this morning now they all seem to be playing up the Indian variant. They really love the spotlight & will jump on anything to keep themselves in it no matter what.

That double mutant variant has been around a while. It’s old news, read about it ages ago and Campbell was talking about it on youtube a good while ago too. Interesting that India wasn’t added to the MHQ list despite how bad it is there.

stephenjmcd · 19-04-2021 10:59AM

thejuggler wrote: »

RTÉ reporting 100 million additional Pfizer vaccines (1 million for ROI) to be delivered by end of year.

Is this new or already factored in ?

It's the EU exercising their right to 100m extra as per contract. Would be surprised if it wasn't already factored in as they were always going to exercise the contract

PhilOssophy · 19-04-2021 11:00AM

thejuggler wrote: »

RTÉ reporting 100 million additional vaccines (1 million for ROI) to be delivered by end of year.

Is this new or already factored in ?

This is new. Fantastic news. We'll be out of this in no time.

Re Staines and McConkey etc, I have previously defended them on this thread but there is no doubt that they are now bordering on the ridiculous. Saying 3-5 more years of lockdown restrictions, not a hope!

Their approach might have had some relevance at the start - if we had gone zero covid and mandatory quarantine, but their ship has sailed now.

ddarcy · 19-04-2021 11:12AM

Zipppy wrote: »

I think they'll stretch to 8 weeks and maybe longer again at a later stage.
I do think though that they'll give guidance that the vulnerable/extremely vulnerable should be left at 4 weeks...which it should be!

Officially Pfizer and Moderna say a max of 7 weeks between doses. I can see it extended but really only to 6 weeks. If they go further than that than you may have legal issues (given the Irish love of lawsuits, I don’t think the HSE/NIAC will go beyond that, someone with no legal experience would be able to win a substantial award...)

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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