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Private numbers

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    alchemist33 wrote: »
    That's an extremely low bar for rudeness and the balaclava example doesn't compare. Balaclava man might kill you where the private number might annoy you a little and you can hang up.
    Not answering private numbers, along wih hiding in your house when the doorbell rings (which I read about on boards and seems to be a thing now) sounds like a very paranoid response to the world.

    If I answered, or called back, every phone call I have ever got I’d be out a pretty penny.


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    #63
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    cdeb wrote: »
    I think what I'd be looking for in the admin function of a hospital is a cohesive team effort where everyone in the same organisation tries to pull together to improve administration and communication where possible for the benefit of the overall function.

    No-one's asking you to go on a crusade. Just make a suggestion to the relevant people and follow up once or twice to see if anything was done.

    Not entirely sure why this has to be so difficult.

    Lol if only it was that simple. These places always have jobsworths and blockers who resist all change regardless of how stupid the current system is.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    volchitsa wrote: »
    If that's a reply to me, I've no idea what point you think you're making. The consultant (I presume it's a consultant) called people back more than once. God knows I'm not one for excessive deference to anyone, but I can accept that a hospital doctor is a busy person with more to be doing than repeatedly calling people who are out in their garden or who just refuse to answer because they don't recognise the number.

    It's not "somebody else's problem", it's the problem of the patient who knows they're expecting a call and can't be arsed answering the phone.

    It’s the health services problem to fix. And it’s not the doctor calling but some administrator. As you know.


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    #65
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    notsoyoungwan wrote: »
    If it’s a cold call selling you something, just hang up. Then you’re not left wondering if you missed the actual call you have been waiting on.

    That's fine for most people. But there are people who are plagued with problem private calls.


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    #66
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It’s the health services problem to fix. And it’s not the doctor calling but some administrator. As you know.

    It's the health services' problem to make sure people answer their phones?

    And no, you're wrong, in this example it is the doctor calling back, at the patient's request. That was the point.

    People have to take individual responsibility for small stuff like that.

    This thread started by someone complaining about people ringing using private numbers, and the poster replied with an example of how someone does that - because they're part of a larger organisation that chooses not to allow its numbers to come up on phones, presumably to prevent their medical staff from wasting their time answering calls that they want to filter through the secretarial/switchboard service first.

    I don't see why that's necessarily a fault that needs fixing.


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    #67
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    My phone will only ring if the number is in my phones local address book, everything else gets diverted to my voice mail. Too much spam these days, and luckily none of them leave a voice mail.


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    #68
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    beauf wrote: »
    That's fine for most people. But there are people who are plagued with problem private calls.

    And as I said way back, that needs fixing. But not necessarily by having everyone else give their number out to everyone even if they have good reason not to.


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    #69
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    What are people afraid of if they answer a private number? That an arm with a clenched fist will shoot out from the handset and punch them in the gob? You can always hang up on them if you don't want to talk to them

    This covid thing and sitting at home business is doing the world no good by making everyone so timid
    This. Though we are on an interwebs forum so more likely to have more folks on the spectrum. I've known a couple of Aspie guys and things like private numbers could freak them out a bit, so maybe it's that? One such bloke I knew many moons ago and phones freaked the hell out of him. He told me in pre mobile phone days with no caller ID he just wouldn't answer a phone ever. That he wouldn't answer the doorbell if he wasn't expecting someone was another quirk of his. Sound lad in general, but odd as two left feet in that regard, which is fine. Life needs a bit of odd.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #70
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    jester77 wrote: »
    My phone will only ring if the number is in my phones local address book, everything else gets diverted to my voice mail. Too much spam these days, and luckily none of them leave a voice mail.

    My kids laugh at me when I (used to) leave them a message. They just call me back now instead. They say nobody their age even listens to voicemail any more. Still, if they ever miss something important over that, TBH it will be entirely their fault, and not the person who left the message.


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    #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    notsoyoungwan wrote: »
    I work in a hospital and the switchboard comes up as a private number. So if I’m ever ringing a patient or their family, it’s a private number call. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will ring my secretary looking to talk to me and then not answer their phone when it rings- bearing in mind they’re expecting a call.
    But they cant possibly know it was you trying to ring, even if they were indeed expecting your call. Think about how many times your phone rings a day.

    What prompted this thread was my phone rang yesterday, and it was a recruiter. Bear in mind, I'm not even job hunting anymore. So I was in the middle of work, and was expecting a call, therefore I had to answer. 30 minutes later, i was in the middle of describing an example of a challenging work situation and I realised "Look, you're after cold-calling me in the middle of the day and my employer is paying for this, it doesn't reflect well on me that I'm doing this" only said that in a more diplomatic way.
    She was polite, but I could tell she felt a bit miffed as if I'd somehow wasted *her* time, this from a person who cold-calls someone in the middle of the working day from a blocked number. Recruiters are the worst for this.

    It's such an entitlement attitude towards someone else's time. I hate it.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    What are people afraid of if they answer a private number? That an arm with a clenched fist will shoot out from the handset and punch them in the gob? You can always hang up on them if you don't want to talk to them

    This covid thing and sitting at home business is doing the world no good by making everyone so timid

    A lot of the commentary is old man shouting at clouds level debate. “Back in my day we answered all the calls”. No we didn’t.

    I don’t answer numbers I don’t know because I have a few hundred contacts and if you aren’t in there, private or not, I probably don’t want to speak to you. There a good chance that you are a scammer. If you have something to say, say it to voicemail. I will then add you to contacts, perhaps and call you back. I relax this policy when expecting a delivery. This has served me well.

    I’ve also done this pre mobiles because caller id is not all that new, nor is voicemail new. It was less common in Ireland, perhaps, but Ireland went digital in the early 90s. In movies set in the 70s in the US you can see call screening using voicemail “I know you are there, pick up”.

    And even in houses where there was a rotary phone, no voicemail and no caller id, which describes my childhood house, we often let the call ring out. Who is calling during Glenroe/dinner/this time of night? urgent callers would call back, the rest would realise you weren’t interested just then.


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    #73
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    beauf wrote: »
    Lol if only it was that simple. These places always have jobsworths and blockers who resist all change regardless of how stupid the current system is.
    Yep, and that's fine if true.

    But at least you'll have made what genuine efforts you can and will have someone else to give out about on internet forums. You don't have to "go on a crusade", as suggested, and try to bring down the IT department.

    And the idea that someone wouldn't even know where to go with an IT issue in their organisation (which was the original query) doesn't really stack up.


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    #74
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    What is annoying is missed private number calls that don't leave a voicemail.


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    #75
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    volchitsa wrote: »
    And as I said way back, that needs fixing. But not necessarily by having everyone else give their number out to everyone even if they have good reason not to.

    There is no good reason for an organisation to hide their number. They could have all internal calls all appear as if they are from the same number if you want to redirect all calls back through a switch. It's just a badly configured system.


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    #76
    CPTM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭CPTM


    notsoyoungwan wrote: »
    Does your logic apply to the call-avoidant people too? Just because they think someone else should be doing something, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do something very simple that would solve the issue.

    Yes, it applies to everyone. I mean in this instance you're the one getting paid and complaining about this problem.

    But if they were here complaining about appointments they've missed because they were contacted on a private number, they'd be getting the same opinion.


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    volchitsa wrote: »
    It's the health services' problem to make sure people answer their phones?

    Yes. If your system has a problem with how users interact. Fix it.

    And no, you're wrong, in this example it is the doctor calling back, at the patient's request. That was the point.

    Was that a private or unknown number. If it’s an actual doctor the number should be available to add to contacts.
    People have to take individual responsibility for small stuff like that.

    This thread started by someone complaining about people ringing using private numbers, and the poster replied with an example of how someone does that - because they're part of a larger organisation that chooses not to allow its numbers to come up on phones, presumably to prevent their medical staff from wasting their time answering calls that they want to filter through the secretarial/switchboard service first.

    I don't see why that's necessarily a fault that needs fixing.

    Organisations who have a problem with how users interact with their services need to change their behaviour rather than expect the users to change, even if you think the users are wrong. This is particularly true of the health service, you’d think.


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    #78
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    In the good old days of landline phones and cassette powered answer machines, I used to come home from work and see several missed calls from a private number with no answer left on the machine. This was happening almost daily, for about a month.

    I got fed up with it and a bit suspicious wondering if someone was working out how often the house was empty, so in the end I contacted Eircom and asked them to investigate.

    Ironically, they called me back after about a week and said it was them!. As an existing customer they were apparently very enthusiastic to tell me about the new deals they were offering.

    When I asked why they could not simply leave a message on my machine, they said it was to do with the automated system used. It apparently dialled many numbers at the same time and only connected through to a sales agent when a call was answered by a person. When I asked them to explain how the system knew a live person answer from a recording, they didn't know.

    These days, my main telephone related peeve has already been mentioned on the thread, hospitals ringing on private numbers so you have no way of calling them back - a stupid way of trying way to pass on important information.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A lot of the commentary is old man shouting at clouds level debate. “Back in my day we answered all the calls”. No we didn’t.
    This. Remember also, there was a time, pretty recently, when phone calls were 20p per minute. You certainly didn't go around phoning people the way agencies and scammers do these days, because phone bills were a significant cost of doing business.

    Come back Telecom Eireann, all is forgiven.


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    #80
    dinjo99
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭dinjo99


    I am a school principal. On rare occasions I will need to contact parents outside school hours. It might be checking on a child who had an accident earlier. It could be a serious issue that happened in school but the parents weren’t available to answer earlier. I hide my caller ID as I don’t want parents to have my personal number.

    Is this regarded as reasonable or rude?


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dinjo99 wrote: »
    I am a school principal. On rare occasions I will need to contact parents outside school hours. It might be checking on a child who had an accident earlier. It could be a serious issue that happened in school but the parents weren’t available to answer earlier. I hide my caller ID as I don’t want parents to have my personal number.

    Is this regarded as reasonable or rude?
    That's reasonable. Same with doctors who don't necessarily want patients to have their personal number.

    That's why we answer private numbers, some people have legitimate reasons. I still think they should provide teachers and doctors with some kinda burner phone that you can switch off at the end of the day, but that's more for quality of life reasons.


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    #82
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    cdeb wrote: »
    Yep, and that's fine if true.

    But at least you'll have made what genuine efforts you can and will have someone else to give out about on internet forums. You don't have to "go on a crusade", as suggested, and try to bring down the IT department.

    And the idea that someone wouldn't even know where to go with an IT issue in their organisation (which was the original query) doesn't really stack up.

    Where I work it's very common not to know where to go with an IT issue. They don't maintain a directory or phone list.

    We have two systems named almost identically. So people log support calls under the wrong system constantly. Despite being asked to rename it they refuse. You meet that stuff all the time.


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    #83
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    beauf wrote: »
    There is no good reason for an organisation to hide their number. They could have all internal calls all appear as if they are from the same number if you want to redirect all calls back through a switch. It's just a badly configured system.

    True, I have often had hospital doctors call me with test results on private numbers. Even when I answer, most time I don't know who they are as you very seldom get a call back from the actual person that saw/tested you. This means that if further questions occur to you after the call, you have no number on record to call back and if as has happened a lot during covid, they called you unannounced and at an inconvenient time, you might not even remember who you were talking to - then starts the complex track and trace operation to figure out how to return a call to the right place and person.

    Why the secrecy?


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    #84
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes. If your system has a problem with how users interact. Fix it.

    Call me old fashioned, but as I say, I really don't want a hospital doctor spending their time on this level of micromanagement. I'd rather they spent that time reading up the latest literature on their subject of expertise.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Was that a private or unknown number. If it’s an actual doctor the number should be available to add to contacts.

    Not necessarily. You have the secretary's number, not the doctor's direct line.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Organisations who have a problem with how users interact with their services need to change their behaviour rather than expect the users to change, even if you think the users are wrong. This is particularly true of the health service, you’d think.

    Does nobody else ever wonder what the Irish Patients' association does with the public funding they get? I have family members who've spent a lot of time in hospital and I've never heard of anyone coming across them in any shape or form.

    Instead we have a hospital consultant being berated for not calling the IT service to sort out this issue. If it's anything like our IT service (not a hospital), a phone call won't be enough anyway, there'll have to be an incident record logged, follow up calls etc etc. It's like complaining to the doctor that the photocopies you got of your medical record weren't good quality - that may be true but it's lazy to just give out to the doctor about it. It's not the doctor's job to fix the photocopier FFS.


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    #85
    corsav6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭corsav6


    alchemist33 wrote: »
    That's an extremely low bar for rudeness and the balaclava example doesn't compare. Balaclava man might kill you where the private number might annoy you a little and you can hang up.
    Not answering private numbers, along wih hiding in your house when the doorbell rings (which I read about on boards and seems to be a thing now) sounds like a very paranoid response to the world.

    Yes the balaclava was a bit extreme and I'm sure I could have used a better example, but it does hide the person's identity while they know yours.

    I'm not the type to hide from people when they call to my door and I don't think it's the same at all. Someone calling to your door cannot be identified until you answer door, nothing they can do about it. Blocking your number while ringing other people is rude, it's avoidable and if your trying to get a hold of someone and not leaving any way to contact you back then you can't really complain.


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    #86
    CPTM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭CPTM


    dinjo99 wrote: »
    I am a school principal. On rare occasions I will need to contact parents outside school hours. It might be checking on a child who had an accident earlier. It could be a serious issue that happened in school but the parents weren’t available to answer earlier. I hide my caller ID as I don’t want parents to have my personal number.

    Is this regarded as reasonable or rude?

    I'd say call from the landline or get a phone number for 20 euro. But that's just because I don't think a lot of people would answer. Do you find they answer your calls mostly?

    Edit: Ah, outside of school hours. I see now why you'd do it that way.


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    #87
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Call me old fashioned, but as I say, I really don't want a hospital doctor spending their time on this level of micromanagement. I'd rather they spent that time reading up the latest literature on their subject of expertise.



    Not necessarily. You have the secretary's number, not the doctor's direct line.



    Does nobody else ever wonder what the Irish Patients' association does with the public funding they get? I have family members who've spent a lot of time in hospital and I've never heard of anyone coming across them in any shape or form.

    Instead we have a hospital consultant being berated for not calling the IT service to sort out this issue. If it's anything like our IT service (not a hospital), a phone call won't be enough anyway, there'll have to be an incident record logged, follow up calls etc etc. It's like complaining to the doctor that the photocopies you got of your medical record weren't good quality - that may be true but it's lazy to just give out to the doctor about it. It's not the doctor's job to fix the photocopier FFS.

    I take your point. However the only people with a minimal of influence on the officialdum in a hospital are senior consultants. But even then I've run into to problems with difficult public secretaries and administrators who seem to do things counter to the consultants wishes. In one case a family member couldn't get on to a list because a paper pusher seemed to blocking the process for months. Only when I threatened to hand deliver the paper work to this person into their hand did they "process" the paperwork. All the medical staff were entirely frustrated by it.


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    #88
    tjhook
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭tjhook


    For people who don't answer calls from private numbers - do you answer calls from numbers you don't recognise? If you do, isn't it the same thing? And if you don't, do you find you miss a lot of calls from your bank/hospital/online vendors/etc?

    (I know there are apps for a phone to do a reverse lookup on any incoming number, but I doubt people are generally willing to forego their privacy for the data dredging that those apps inevitably do).


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    #89
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    About 50% of the private numbers I get are sales cold calling. The others are medical or schools. I don't get many so it's not a problem for me.

    But checking on an elderly relatives phone on case they missed something, private calls are a nuisance. I have no idea if they missed something important. I assume if it's important a message will be left.

    But if your call process is so similar to spam cold callers you can't really complain if it gets treated the same.


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    #90
    notsoyoungwan
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭notsoyoungwan


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    But they cant possibly know it was you trying to ring, even if they were indeed expecting your call. Think about how many times your phone rings a day.

    What prompted this thread was my phone rang yesterday, and it was a recruiter. Bear in mind, I'm not even job hunting anymore. So I was in the middle of work, and was expecting a call, therefore I had to answer. 30 minutes later, i was in the middle of describing an example of a challenging work situation and I realised "Look, you're after cold-calling me in the middle of the day and my employer is paying for this, it doesn't reflect well on me that I'm doing this" only said that in a more diplomatic way.
    She was polite, but I could tell she felt a bit miffed as if I'd somehow wasted *her* time, this from a person who cold-calls someone in the middle of the working day from a blocked number. Recruiters are the worst for this.

    It's such an entitlement attitude towards someone else's time. I hate it.
    .

    When you were told she was a recruiter why didn’t you say as you’ve said here “I’m not job hunting anymore, so I’ll let you go. Bye”? Then you wouldn’t have wasted 30 minutes.


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    #91
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    notsoyoungwan wrote: »
    .

    When you were told she was a recruiter why didn’t you say as you’ve said here “I’m not job hunting anymore, so I’ll let you go. Bye”? Then you eoujdbt have wasted 30 minutes.

    Yeah don't understand that. I'm pretty abrupt with cold callers.


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