What kind of person beeps a learner driver?

GT89 · 16-04-2021 11:11AM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Driving lessons. Deserted industrial estates. Wherever.

The test is not in deserted industrial estates. How are you supposed to get used to driving in different conditions if you've only ever driven in a deserted industrial estate. Think about it.

alan partridge aha · 16-04-2021 11:12AM

cgcsb wrote: »

I was perfectly justified on both occasions.

Perhaps, but a bike is no match for a car.

07Lapierre · 16-04-2021 11:32AM

cgcsb wrote: »

I was perfectly justified on both occasions.

Morally speaking... i've no doubt you were.
Legally speaking, its criminal damage?

Is a motorist justified damaging a cyclists bicycle if the cyclist broke the law?

Mimon · 16-04-2021 11:41AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Some people didn’t learn on the road in a car.

A lot of people who grew up on farms would have been driving from a young age and were incredibly confident by the time they got out on the road.

Insanely when a 16 year old can drive a rig capable of nearly 60kmh and unlimited weight, they don’t need much training by the time they can drive a car

Doesn't necessarily make them good driver because they learned this way. A lot of the time the opposite is true.

cgcsb · 16-04-2021 12:00PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Morally speaking... i've no doubt you were.
Legally speaking, its criminal damage?

Is a motorist justified damaging a cyclists bicycle if the cyclist broke the law?

The person in question didn't just break the law (most people will at some point) but attempted to murder me. We have an unjust society so depending on the courts wouldn't have given me any satisfaction. The wing mirror did though and in a way was probably a better deterrent for future behaviour than any court could administer.

Wibbs · 16-04-2021 12:24PM

If someone kicked off my wing mirror I'd be hard pressed not to mow them down. They'd most certainly be getting a kicking.

Wibbs · 16-04-2021 12:36PM

cgcsb wrote: »

That's driving in this country, you'll have to get used to it, Irish drivers are among Europe's most agressive. Nowhere near as bad as Italy or parts of France but pretty bad for this latitude.

Spain, Portugal, England, Germany can be pretty bloody bad too. We're not particularly aggressive in my experience. Smells more than a bit of the usual Irish ego insecurity of "ah sure we're terrible aren't we" ballsology. The stats appear to paint a very different picture.

In 2019, the EU countries with the best road safety records were Sweden and Ireland, while the member states with the worst ones were Romania, Bulgaria and Poland.

Either that or driver aggression is actively good for safety. Not.

I get beeped at for following the rules of the road (observing stop/yield signs, using the correct lane etc.).

I follow the rules of the road, keep to the speed limits too and can't honestly recall the last time I had another motorist blow the horn at me. My car horn stopped working once and I didn't notice until the next NCT. It may have stopped working a day after the previous NCT, I have no clue, but I didn't notice its loss so clearly I don't beep at others too often either. It would be my opinion that if someone is noticing being beeped at as a regular consistent thing, it's less likely to be other road users, it's almost certainly them. I knew a guy like this. Had a bee in his bonnet about being beeped at. Didn't take much notice until he gave me a lift once. He was an appallingly bad driver. Oh he stuck to the rules alright, but sped up and slowed down for no apparent reason and his car control was decidedly under par. But it was everybody else's fault.

mohawk · 16-04-2021 12:49PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Driving lessons. Deserted industrial estates. Wherever.

You won’t pick up all the skills you need driving in deserted industrial estates. Couple of examples would be you need to learn to judge when is safe to pull out at a junction or roundabout. You need to learn to deal with other peoples terrible driving, drive in stop start traffic, learn to take off fast when traffic light goes green, correct road and lane positioning.

You learn some great lessons out on the road making errors such as cutting out etc.

AndrewJRenko · 16-04-2021 12:55PM

Panjandrums wrote: »

I've started beeping at people on phones in congestion areas and drivers on the phone who don't recognize that I've done them a favour by pulling in dispite the obstacle being on their side of the road.

A beep followed by eye contact helps ensure they knew the beep was for them, resulting in them putting their phone down to their lap to check that I'm not a guard.

Ironically, having the phone on their lap is an offence, so the Garda can do them for that anyway.

Wibbs · 16-04-2021 12:58PM

mohawk wrote: »

You won’t pick up all the skills you need driving in deserted industrial estates.

Oh most certainly, but to learn all the other skills you mention you need the foundation of basic car control. Now with more and more autos and EV's in the mix at least clutch control and shifting gears is one less motor skill and distraction for new drivers so that's a bonus. I've given some basic lessons to learner drivers in the past and I found the gear changing was the biggest initial hurdle to overcome. Basic steering seems to come naturally enough and quickly enough, though people do vary in their fine motor control abilities. Some are smoother and more in control than others.

AndrewJRenko · 16-04-2021 12:59PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I'm guessing somebody who hasn't noticed the L badge? Maybe it was obscured by reflecting sunlight or something?

You can't beep a Learner, it's just not on.

If you can't see an L plate, you shouldn't be driving.

GT89 · 16-04-2021 01:01PM

mohawk wrote: »

You won’t pick up all the skills you need driving in deserted industrial estates. Couple of examples would be you need to learn to judge when is safe to pull out at a junction or roundabout. You need to learn to deal with other peoples terrible driving, drive in stop start traffic, learn to take off fast when traffic light goes green, correct road and lane positioning.

You learn some great lessons out on the road making errors such as cutting out etc.

Exactly. Deserted industrial estates are only good for complete beginners learning the basics of how make the car stop and go.

AndrewJRenko · 16-04-2021 01:02PM

ShatterAlan wrote: »

There is one purpose and one purpose only for a car horn and that is to alert someone to danger such as a pedestrian in their own little world crossing the road oblivious to you oncoming or a cyclist driffting into your path as you approach or even someone driving with one of their wheels wobbling around because the lugnuts weren't tightened probably.

It's not to express your impatience, anger or disapproval at someone's mistake.

It's ok to give a quick tap on the horn if someone is daydreaming and didn't notice the light turning from red to green but that's about it. Blasting the horn at a rookie for some petty misdemeanour is a crappy thing to do. The instructor who is probably a better driver than 95% of us is more than qualified to point out the mistake.

You're broadly right, but you should be giving any cyclist enough passing space so that a little drifting, which could be caused by gusty wind or road condition, doesn't cause any concern for either of you.

ThewhiteJesus · 16-04-2021 01:03PM

We all have to learn so i wouldn't beep at anyone who's clearly learning,
I always find it's the worst kind of people that beep, usually little men or really aggressive women

AndrewJRenko · 16-04-2021 01:11PM

glasso wrote: »

what about after they stall on two consecutive sets of long-change lights and have built up a massive rack of happy drivers behind them.... :rolleyes:

Yeah, beep louder and more frequently, that will definitely help to solve the problem and get you to the back of the next queue of cars quicker.
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

cgcsb · 16-04-2021 01:37PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Either that or driver aggression is actively good for safety. Not. I follow the rules of the road, keep to the speed limits too and can't honestly recall the last time I had another motorist blow the horn at me. My car horn stopped working once and I didn't notice until the next NCT. It may have stopped working a day after the previous NCT, I have no clue, but I didn't notice its loss so clearly I don't beep at others too often either. It would be my opinion that if someone is noticing being beeped at as a regular consistent thing, it's less likely to be other road users, it's almost certainly them. I knew a guy like this. Had a bee in his bonnet about being beeped at. Didn't take much notice until he gave me a lift once. He was an appallingly bad driver. Oh he stuck to the rules alright, but sped up and slowed down for no apparent reason and his car control was decidedly under par. But it was everybody else's fault.

Do you drive much, I find people will beep because I won't enter a yellow box and block it for example. I was probably exaggerating when I said 'all the time'. It's not all the time, but certainly a weekly event.

Wibbs · 16-04-2021 01:39PM

GT89 wrote: »

Exactly. Deserted industrial estates are only good for complete beginners learning the basics of how make the car stop and go.

Those "basics" aren't so basic. They're fundamental in learning to drive. I'd bet the majority of ire from other drivers is when a learner fails to make the car stop and go when required.

cgcsb · 16-04-2021 01:39PM

Wibbs wrote: »

If someone kicked off my wing mirror I'd be hard pressed not to mow them down. They'd most certainly be getting a kicking.

He had already attempted and failed to mow me down and I doubt he'd lift his foot high enough to kick anything without some sort of cardiac episode. He remained in the vehicle and was much safer in doing so.

cgcsb · 16-04-2021 01:43PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Spain, Portugal, England, Germany can be pretty bloody bad too. We're not particularly aggressive in my experience. Smells more than a bit of the usual Irish ego insecurity of "ah sure we're terrible aren't we" ballsology. The stats appear to paint a very different picture.

In 2019, the EU countries with the best road safety records were Sweden and Ireland, while the member states with the worst ones were Romania, Bulgaria and Poland.

This is a measure of road deaths, not a measure of driver aggression. Ireland also is sparsely populated and lightly trafficked in comparison to most of those countries.

breezy1985 · 16-04-2021 01:45PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Tomorrow stick an L plate on your car and drive as normal, you will see the abuse you get despite driving the same as normal.

On a side note I've noticed the standard of driving has gone to complete sheite in the lockdown, people jumping red lights, driving right up your hole, not waiting at junctions, reaction times of a dead person etc etc, people are either up to their gills on happy pills or have other things on their minds.

Turning on your indicator after you have started to turn. Had 2 idiots across from each other hold up a crossroads neither indicating so both looking like they are going straight on but both stopped waiting for the other to move so they could turn. Both would have been straight through if they indicated like they should.

Neither had L plates so both were clearly perfect drivers

Jequ0n · 16-04-2021 01:49PM

Don’t you just love people who feel offended and outraged by every little thing?
So refreshing
And god forbid you hurt anybody’s feelings

16-04-2021 01:57PM

KathleenGrant wrote: »

A cnut.

This in spades.

Beeping doesn't help a learner, it just makes them more anxious, and more likely to keep cutting out.

It happened to my daughter one time when she went out for practice. She cut out at a red light with a steep hillstart. (I was in the passenger seat, I'm a fully licenced driver).

The sheer agression from drivers behind us left her badly shaken and destroyed her confidence. I had to take over and drive home - it took her over a year to get back in and drive again.

If the drivers behind had just shown a little patience, (it was 11am on a sunday morning, so where they were rushing too, I don't know) she would have been able to get the car going again, but instead, they decided to act like complete cnuts.

We were all learners once.

breezy1985 · 16-04-2021 02:04PM

https://youtu.be/iBxloSkObYc

I'm a big fan of Dara's advice here only difference is I do it on a bicycle

Jequ0n · 16-04-2021 02:08PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This in spades.

Beeping doesn't help a learner, it just makes them more anxious, and more likely to keep cutting out.

It happened to my daughter one time when she went out for practice. She cut out at a red light with a steep hillstart. (I was in the passenger seat, I'm a fully licenced driver).

The sheer agression from drivers behind us left her badly shaken and destroyed her confidence. I had to take over and drive home - it took her over a year to get back in and drive again.

If the drivers behind had just shown a little patience, (it was 11am on a sunday morning, so where they were rushing too, I don't know) she would have been able to get the car going again, but instead, they decided to act like complete cnuts.

We were all learners once.

They were probably late of mass - I hear you get barred from heaven if you’re late more than once

No offence meant but if your daughter was too scared to get back behind the wheel because people beeped at her once she probably wasn’t ready to be on the road

gypsylee · 16-04-2021 02:13PM

My son is a learner driver (cos its taking forever to get a test date at the minute!) and drives to work in his own car. I have to go with him and drive the car home. It's great seeing all the frustrated white van men on the motorway when I am driving back home cos of the L plate on the back window. Like a red rag to a bull!

16-04-2021 02:16PM

She was more then ready, she just froze.

Not to worry though, it was a very long narrow road with no room for the aggressive cnuts behind to overtake, so I made sure I took my sweet time for the next few kms, to let them cool their jets.

I can be a cnut too, when you piss me off enough.

Graces7 · 16-04-2021 02:20PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Okay, but in what possible way does beeping at said learner driver help?

I've been on the road nearly 20 years and it never occurs to me to beep at an L plate. They're learning, and beeping at them serves no good at all.

Oh WELL SAID! I have already driven for over 50 years and never ever beeped at anyone unless there was real danger. which was rare.

People who beep are probably folk who failed their test a few times and are taking their frustration out on learners. Not kind.

Jequ0n · 16-04-2021 02:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She was more then ready, she just froze.

Not to worry though, it was a very long narrow road with no room for the aggressive cnuts behind to overtake, so I made sure I took my sweet time for the next few kms, to let them cool their jets.

I can be a cnut too, when you piss me off enough.

She froze for a whole year?

Graces7 · 16-04-2021 02:27PM

GT89 wrote: »

The test is not in deserted industrial estates. How are you supposed to get used to driving in different conditions if you've only ever driven in a deserted industrial estate. Think about it.

You need to master basic skills of driving first before even thinking of driving in traffic. So that eg braking, evasive steering etc become second nature

Car control and driving in traffic are two separate things.

There was a disused air base near us that folk used to use for that first episode.

Complete car control is essential before meeting traffic and a lot safer to acquire in a safe situation

16-04-2021 02:33PM

Jequ0n wrote: »

She froze for a whole year?

Yep. Sometimes it only takes one bad experience to destroy someone's confidence.

Even I was shook at the aggressive way she was beeped, and I've been driving for over twenty years, including 3 of those on a motorbike.

What kind of person beeps a learner driver?

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