Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Overheal wrote: »

"In August 2007, Floyd was arrested and charged with aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon. Investigators said he and five other men barged into a woman’s apartment, and Floyd pushed a pistol into her abdomen before searching for items to steal. Floyd pleaded guilty in 2009 and was sentenced to five years in prison. By the time he was paroled, in January 2013, he was nearing 40."

That's terrifying, imagine having six armed men break into your home and rob you like that. Probably have nightmares for the rest of your life.

Vestiapx wrote: »

That's terrifying, imagine having six armed men break into your home and rob you like that. Probably have nightmares for the rest of your life.

Oh she absolutely deserved justice in that case, and got it.

Overheal wrote: »

The abdomen? (had to)

It's not really funny though. I had a guy threaten me with a knife once, I ran away but in an enclosed space with a gun to your belly you'd **** yourself. Its very unique to point a gun at someone's mid section normally people point at the chest or the head was there a reason he aimed at that particular area?

Laurenf35 wrote: »

You haven't watched all the trial and evidence
*opinion disregarded

No idea what you mean by this?

standardg60 wrote: »

What people think his intent was and what they could prove beyond doubt are two entirely different things.

I for one think he set out to kill based on bad history between them.

I'd say if a cop wanted to kill you be wouldn't do it that way, I'd say that he had no intention of Floyd dying and that he hated Floyd and wanted to assert his dominance over Floyd and hurt him a bit but that he did not intend to kill him.
I don't know whether what he did caused the death but the timing shows it's likely that it contributed to it and once Floyd stopped struggling he should have been checked on. There is a clear moral duty of care once you take control of another person's welfare and that duty was not performed correctly.
Unless it's the departments fault for I correct training or procedures then it's certainly Chauvin's fault and he will be punished. The old adage of live by the nasty behaviour die by the nasty behaviour applies here.

Overheal wrote: »

Where is your data to support this?

My data? What height was Floyd what height is the victim? I don't get why people are defending the guy he was a total scumbag and while it's not mega city one out there and Chauvin doesn't get to kill perps it does t game from the fact that he ended up on a road that he chose to walk down.

Vestiapx wrote: »

I was paraphrasing, it's from the Gospel of Mathew

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Live be the police chokehold, die by the police chokehold?

It’s an interesting case.

It seems inevitable that the jury will find that chauvin was culpable in respect of the restraint; never mind earlier opportunities, the failure to roll to recovery position when he passed out (and officer Kane suggested same) and then when no pulse was found is truly bizarre and indefensible.

However, the cause of death does leave room for reasonable doubt. The prosecution experts were far more credible in their analysis but if the jury are searching for a reasonable doubt they have the opportunity.

If I had to plump,for a result I suspect they will go with 2nd degree manslaughter.

Personally I would go with 2nd degree murder.

Vestiapx wrote: »

I'd say if a cop wanted to kill you be wouldn't do it that way, I'd say that he had no intention of Floyd dying and that he hated Floyd and wanted to assert his dominance over Floyd and hurt him a bit but that he did not intend to kill him.
I don't know whether what he did caused the death but the timing shows it's likely that it contributed to it and once Floyd stopped struggling he should have been checked on. There is a clear moral duty of care once you take control of another person's welfare and that duty was not performed correctly.
Unless it's the departments fault for I correct training or procedures then it's certainly Chauvin's fault and he will be punished. The old adage of live by the nasty behaviour die by the nasty behaviour applies here.

Chauvin was still asserting that dominance and hate while the paramedic was checking for a non existent pulse?

Only when that was established did he relent.

standardg60 wrote: »

Chauvin was still asserting that dominance and hate while the paramedic was checking for a non existent pulse?

Only when that was established did he relent.

You think he deliberately murdered someone in front of witnesses?

Vestiapx wrote: »

It looks to me like third degree, no intent to kill but the death happened anyhow, as opposed to manslaughter which would be accidental or second degree which would be reckless.
I think nine times out of ten the perp survives what happened to Floyd and also there has to be no reasonable doubt that there is guilt.

So I would bet on third degree in this case.

Quite possibly; though the reference in the statute to ‘ and evincing a depraved mind’ turned me off that, or more accurately, I think it might turn the jury off; seems like a high enough standard.

standardg60 wrote: »

Yes absolutely, given the history of American trials in general and in particular those against police officers, he reckoned understandably he would be treated leniently, and to my mind he already has regardless of the verdict.

That’s pretty unlikely on any analysis; and the prosecution agree, not putting an intent verdict to the jury nor arguing for same.

Vestiapx wrote: »

It's contributory to why he shouldn't be held up as a role model for people.

I don't think that's a real problem. Nor have I ever read anyone here saying he is a role model. He also shouldn't be held up for the Nobel Prize or selected as an Astronaut, FWIW.

Even people who aren't role models deserve due process and have a right to life.

Vestiapx wrote: »

As I have said there is a duty of care that Chauvin neglected to follow and will be punished for but while Floyd didn't deserve the treatment he received he also didn't deserve to be left alone that day to do whatever he was doing.

Similarly, I've not heard or seen anyone argue that the police are at fault because the arrest was initiated. You're throwing up flak against arguments which are not being made.