Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Darwin · 15-04-2021 07:02PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Fully vaccinated to shortly be exempt from MHQ

The cynic in me says they will drag the arse out of the follow up vaccination jabs here to deter people from getting away this summer.

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 07:02PM

zebastein wrote: »

Thanks for quoting in bold "within the broad parameters of EU guidance", which is the root of the question. The EU commission gave their guidance ( I posted the link in this thread today), it has been signed by Ireland in oct/nov 2020, so now the commission wants to control that the MHQ is in line with this guidance

I think you missed the bit on sovereignty. Check it out.

You should never be embarrassed to be Irish. Renounce your citizenship if so.

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:05PM

zebastein wrote: »

Thanks for quoting in bold "within the broad parameters of EU guidance", which is the root of the question. The EU commission gave their guidance ( I posted the link in this thread today), it has been signed by Ireland in oct/nov 2020, so now the commission wants to control that the MHQ is in line with this guidance

They should clarify whatever is raised by the EU and carry on as before.

Del Griffith · 15-04-2021 07:08PM

saabsaab wrote: »

They also shouldn't lecture us.

Yes they should and Im not surprised that they and others are. Ireland is a disgrace for implementing this farce and I'm delighted its blowing up in their faces.

Hopefully this is the end of Donnellys career in politics.

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:15PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Yes they should and Im not surprised that they and others are. Ireland is a disgrace for implementing this farce and I'm delighted its blowing up in their faces.

Hopefully this is the end of Donnellys career in politics.

The reasons for this are still there they should hold firm at least on the major points. Keep the variants out!

Tazz T · 15-04-2021 07:17PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Hindsight is remarkable alright. How were they to know. I do kind of take umbrage with the Italian Ambassador Lecturing us on discrimination.
It's a global pandemic and people should only be travelling for essential reasons.

He's the representative of a state that had some controversial laws regarding discrimination. Again hindsight is 2020.

I don't think Italy was part of the EU in 1938

Tazz T · 15-04-2021 07:21PM

saabsaab wrote: »

What rules? We must protect public health in this country. I am sure Ireland won't lecture Greece or Spain on whatever policy they take with their borders.

EU rules. I hear there's some shovels in the treasure aisle in aldi this week if your own wears out.

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:24PM

Tazz T wrote: »

EU rules. I hear there's some shovels in the treasure isle in aldi this week if your own wears out.

They are looking for only a clarification. There is no reason to change policy.

Darwin · 15-04-2021 07:24PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Keep the variants out!

Keep the variants out that are already here? How does that work?

dan786 · 15-04-2021 07:25PM

conal08 wrote: »

Are the Gardaí at Dublin Airport 24/7 checking those who are intending to travel or is it only from first thing in the morning? i.e. If one showed up to the airport at 4 / 5am, would you be likely to be stopped?

Few of my friends travelled in last few weeks on early morning flights and none of them came across even a single Garda on the way/at the airport.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:27PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Fully vaccinated to shortly be exempt from MHQ

But unfortunately the fully vaccinated will still have to lock up at home and cops probably knocking on the door every 5 mins. Not much progress for fully vaccinated people, you have to wonder about the government and our future freedoms for the fully vaccinated .

I suppose avoiding MHQ is a start.

Tenzor07 · 15-04-2021 07:29PM

saabsaab wrote: »

The reasons for this are still there they should hold firm at least on the major points. Keep the variants out!

Can you explain how keeping the "variants out" works when there's an open border with another jurisdiction, i.e. the UK?

Tazz T · 15-04-2021 07:30PM

saabsaab wrote: »

They are looking for only a clarification. There is no reason to change policy.

Clarification that they're breaking EU law?

Policy will change very quickly. First, vaccinated people will be allowed to avert MHQ, probably within the week.

Then they'll start looking at ways of getting rid of the whole mess as soon as possible.

309 cases today and falling. Running out of excuses for destroying the economy.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:32PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Keep the variants out!

You know there is only one way to keep the variants out. Would you be happy enough about that?

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:37PM

Tazz T wrote: »

Clarification that they're breaking EU law?

Policy will change very quickly. First, vaccinated people will be allowed to avert MHQ, probably within the week.

Then they'll start looking at ways of getting rid of the whole mess as soon as possible.

309 cases today and falling. Running out of excuses for destroying the economy.

No they are not. Hopefully they clarify the situation and tighten up. We don't need a new variant.

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:41PM

Darwin wrote: »

Keep the variants out that are already here? How does that work?

Are they widespread (except the Uk) 'in the community' yet? No. We needn't import more or perhaps an unknown variant. Restriction and contact tracing should sort the few that get through but only if it is a few.

Look at the untraceabilty of many coming in and many refusal to isolate when they arrive. Which led to MHQ in the first place!

Tazz T · 15-04-2021 07:42PM

What clarification do you think that is?

Oh and MHQ will not prevent variants, regardless of the fact that everyone will be piling up north for holiers and pubs next month.

Tazz T · 15-04-2021 07:43PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Are they widespread (except the Uk) 'in the community' yet? No. We needn't import more or perhaps an unknown variant. Restriction and contact tracing should sort the few that get through but only if it is a few.

Look at the untraceabilty of many coming in and many refusal to isolate when they arrive. Which led to MHQ in the first place!

What utter nonsense. Bye.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:43PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Are they widespread (except the Uk) 'in the community' yet? No. We needn't import more or perhaps an unknown variant. Restriction and contact tracing should sort the few that get through but only if it is a few.

Look at the untraceabilty of many coming in and many refusal to isolate when they arrive. Which led to MHQ in the first place!

So for how long? Until most of us get vaccinated in the next 6 months or on a permanent basis for years?

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 07:45PM

zebastein wrote: »

Thanks for quoting in bold "within the broad parameters of EU guidance", which is the root of the question. The EU commission gave their guidance ( I posted the link in this thread today), it has been signed by Ireland in oct/nov 2020, so now the commission wants to control that the MHQ is in line with this guidance

It may well end up before the Supreme Court but the law is clear. We did not give away sovereignty.

The commission can enquire all it wants.

The formula contained in what was then Art. 29.4.3 of the Constitution worked relatively well until its limitations were highlighted by the Supreme Court’s decision in April 1987 in Crotty v. An Taoiseach.11 The plaintiff in this case had challenged the decision of the Government to ratify the Single European Act (SEA) by means of parliamentary legislation only, without a referendum. The Supreme Court ultimately held that ratification of Title II of the SEA (dealing with the creation of the single market) was within the scope of the 1972 constitutional amendment, since it did no more than attempted to give effect to market integration policies which had been contained in the original 1957 EC Treaty. The Court took a different view of Title III (which provided for formalised common foreign policies rules), holding that a constitutional amendment was necessary to ratify this aspect of the Treaty.

The Supreme Court’s reasoning may be summarised thus:
(a)
There was no Community legal – as distinct from political – obligation to ratify the SEA. Ratification by parliamentary legislation was therefore not protected from constitutional attack by the ‘necessitated obligations’ clause in the 1972 amendment.

(b)
Without the protection of the ‘necessitated obligations’ clause, ratification was unconstitutional, since Title III of the SEA curbed an essential feature of state sovereignty. In the Court’s view the power to conduct the foreign affairs of the state was an essential part of sovereignty, and the Government could not by a binding Treaty commitment agree to transfer that power to other states or to the Community.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-6265-273-6_28

jellies · 15-04-2021 07:45PM

Meanwhile back in the real world Aer Lingus is running two flights a day tfrom Belfast to London. Go and try to book one. The prices will tell you something about how full they are. Hint: They are rammed. How many people that need to get home are transferring from other destinations. No idea, but I know what I would do.
There is also no testing on these flights as they are UK-UK, no antigen testing, no PVR testing. Nothing.
But somehow MHQ is going to keep variants out. Gimme a break.

RedPaddyX · 15-04-2021 07:45PM

saabsaab wrote: »

No they are not. Hopefully they clarify the situation and tighten up. We don't need a new variant.

Is saabsaab the new “Donald Trump” poster - aka Stephen Donnelly?!!

dubdaymo · 15-04-2021 07:48PM

Is it only aviation travel that NPHET are targetting?

I haven't heard any mention of passengers arriving into Irish ports on ferries from France or via the UK and being escorted to hotels for detention.

Ray Donovan · 15-04-2021 07:53PM

I think we really need to talk about Leo everyone. He has been on a few different media outlets today and he has referenced the EU Travel Cert on all occasions as a means to reopen travel. However, he immediately follows this by saying the cert will be a way to get the fully vaccinated travelling around the EU this Summer.

One example is the last 15 seconds of this.... https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1382604306889777152?s=21

Ok, if it happened once I might say it was a mistake or whatever, but it happened numerous times today?

What gives? Personally I feel he is trying to mislead the public into believing that only the fully vaccinated will be eligible for the cert.

Or are we looking at something more sinister and our geniuses are trying to use it with the caveat that only fully vaccinated people can get it?

Or am I just going mad?

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:55PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

So for how long? Until most of us get vaccinated in the next 6 months or on a permanent basis for years?

A fair question. Answer is until a large percentage of the population has been vaccinated. From the figures I've read probably late June 2021. Barring a new variant (from abroad)

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 07:57PM

Of course only the fully vaccinated would get the vaccine passport and be allowed travel.

'What gives? Personally I feel he is trying to mislead the public into believing that only the fully vaccinated will be eligible for the cert.'

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 07:57PM

Leo got pulled up pretty quick one his double speak,

"only justified with a pathogen of pandemic potential"

A year later I think we are pretty clear on that point.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1380795341751123969?s=20

Corholio · 15-04-2021 07:59PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Of course only the fully vaccinated would get the vaccine passport and be allowed travel.

It's not a vaccine passport, as has been said numerous times. The cert allows for 3 variables.

Tenzor07 · 15-04-2021 08:00PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

I think we really need to talk about Leo everyone. He has been on a few different media outlets today and he has referenced the EU Travel Cert on all occasions as a means to reopen travel. However, he immediately follows this by saying the cert will be a way to get the fully vaccinated travelling around the EU this Summer.

Wonder what happened to the Garda investigation into Varadkar leaking state secrets to his friends, all swept under the carpet now... why would anyone listen to him?

Irish Aris · 15-04-2021 08:00PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Of course only the fully vaccinated would get the vaccine passport and be allowed travel.

'What gives? Personally I feel he is trying to mislead the public into believing that only the fully vaccinated will be eligible for the cert.'

I think you are wrong.
EU proposal covers fully vaccinated or having had covid previously or negative PCR. Any one of them would suffice.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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