Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

15-04-2021 03:19PM

Tobin is back in 5 mins or so but not allowed to talk about the low carbon monoxide
He can though say that high oxygen meant low carbon monoxide

bazermc · 15-04-2021 03:22PM

An Irish man always comes back for more

Penn · 15-04-2021 03:24PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

The would only bring back Tobin if they found an angle to chip away at his evidence. It wouldn't make sense to bring him back only for him to reinforce his earlier testimony; testimony that didn't do Chauvin any favours.

From what I understand it's a common enough thing where the defence recalls witnesses (say "Witness A") that the prosecution already called (and the defence already cross-examined) because they want one of their own witnesses ("Witness B") to then testify, and then ask Witness A questions following on from Witness B's testimony.

It doesn't necessarily mean they have an angle to chip away at his evidence, but could mean they want Witness B to introduce an idea/theory/reason, and then re-question Witness A about it.

Penn · 15-04-2021 03:29PM

Chauvin told Judge Peter Cahill that he would invoke his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and would not take the witness stand.

Understandable, in fairness, and happens in a lot of real-life cases.

ACitizenErased · 15-04-2021 03:34PM

That was very close from Tobin. Almost slipped up.

penny piper · 15-04-2021 03:35PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Did the prosecution not completely feck up? The medical centre didn't include the carbon monoxide levels. If there's any doubt then they'll acquit him.

Should be a mistrial

cheezums · 15-04-2021 03:39PM

Pretty tense now. Narrowly avoided a mistrial there.

penny piper · 15-04-2021 03:43PM

cheezums wrote: »

Pretty tense now. Narrowly avoided a mistrial there.

How has it been avoided??? i thought the judge said he would order a mistrial if tobin mentioned the tests from hannepin county and the first thing he did was mention it>>>> surely a mistrial .....?

cheezums · 15-04-2021 03:46PM

penny piper wrote: »

How has it been avoided??? i thought the judge said he would order a mistrial if tobin mentioned the tests from hannepin county and the first thing he did was mention it>>>> surely a mistrial .....?

Different report i think.

osarusan · 15-04-2021 03:48PM

It's messed up, in a way, that everybody else can see and know what the jury can't see and know. If the jury don't need to hear about something as it's irrelevant, maybe viewers shouldn't hear about it either.

15-04-2021 03:51PM

penny piper wrote: »

How has it been avoided??? i thought the judge said he would order a mistrial if tobin mentioned the tests from hannepin county and the first thing he did was mention it>>>> surely a mistrial .....?

They weren't allowed to bring up new evidence (the test on Carbon Monoxide levels), but they could use evidence that had already been submitted (Floyd's blood oxygen levels).

ACitizenErased · 15-04-2021 03:51PM

penny piper wrote: »

How has it been avoided??? i thought the judge said he would order a mistrial if tobin mentioned the tests from hannepin county and the first thing he did was mention it>>>> surely a mistrial .....?

Completely different results. He talked about oxygen levels and discussed carbon monoxide from that perspective. He didn't talk about the monoxide tests.

Penn · 15-04-2021 03:58PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Completely different results. He talked about oxygen levels and discussed carbon monoxide from that perspective. He didn't talk about the monoxide tests.

Yeah I just listened to the court discussion on it. They could discuss the oxygen levels which were known from a previous report, and that relates to the carbon monoxide levels as they're directly related/proportional. So the carbon monoxide levels were already known or could be extrapolated from existing data, they just need to make sure they're referring to what's in already court-submitted reports rather than the specific report which was put forward this morning.

ACitizenErased · 15-04-2021 04:02PM

What do people think he'll get done on? I'm leaning towards manslaughter tbh.

penny piper · 15-04-2021 04:06PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

What do people think he'll get done on? I'm leaning towards manslaughter tbh.

most likely

Overheal · 15-04-2021 04:06PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

What do people think he'll get done on? I'm leaning towards manslaughter tbh.

Tough to say. It's Manslaughter at a minimum. It wasn't a case of him doing his job and making a crucial mistake (like the other current affair where the officer was ostensibly doing their job with the wrong weapon) rather, he had bystanders imploring him about the situation and he just - sat there, hands in his pockets, that's a willful decision to keep choking out GF and way beyond any reasonable window of time for you to say it was a split second heat of the instant decision etc. and contrary to one of the defense's arguments, you cannot really say public bystanders pressured a cop into killing him/forcing him to keep choking him - particularly when they were imploring the opposite.

cheezums · 15-04-2021 04:09PM

Overheal wrote: »

Tough to say. It's Manslaughter at a minimum. It wasn't a case of him doing his job and making a crucial mistake (like the other current affair where the officer was ostensibly doing their job with the wrong weapon) rather, he had bystanders imploring him about the situation and he just - sat there, hands in his pockets, that's a willful decision to keep choking out GF and way beyond any reasonable window of time for you to say it was a split second heat of the instant decision etc.

i actually thought the lady officer's one was way worse. she mistook a non lethal weapon for a lethal one and killed a man. gross negligence. whereas chauvin was employing an actual police technique (however badly and unnecessarily long). negligence also, but not to the level of the lady. imo.

Overheal · 15-04-2021 04:12PM

cheezums wrote: »

i actually thought the lady officer's one was way worse. she mistook a non lethal weapon for a lethal one and killed a man. gross negligence. whereas chauvin was employing an actual police technique (however badly and unnecessarily long). negligence also, but not to the level of the lady. imo.

I mean, she was also employing a police technique, but that's not here's talk. My illustrative point is that Chauvin's incident was far from instantaneous and I think use of force experts have dismantled the argument that it was reasonable procedure (Arguing that if the suspect stops resisting you're supposed to de-escalate your use of force, not keep them in a chokehold). If GF was resisting as forcibly to justify a 9 minute hold, there is no reason in my mind that the officers hands should be so idle for so long.

But I'm not a good juror for this case. Side note I am summoned next week for service on a Grand Jury - not sure if I want to be weeded out on voire dire or not (As if that's my choice lol). Grand Jury could either be really interesting or white collar as hell.

BattleCorp · 15-04-2021 04:14PM

Overheal wrote: »

he had bystanders imploring him about the situation and he just - sat there, hands in his pockets,

I don't think Chauvin's hands are in his pockets. You can see Chauvin's fingers in this photo (not great quality admittedly). Looks like black gloves on a black trousers.

Overheal · 15-04-2021 04:15PM

Then my recollection is fuzzy. Nevermind me on that. It still seems like overall his body language did not speak to struggling to restrain a suspect.

penny piper · 15-04-2021 04:16PM

Overheal wrote: »

Tough to say. It's Manslaughter at a minimum. It wasn't a case of him doing his job and making a crucial mistake (like the other current affair where the officer was ostensibly doing their job with the wrong weapon) rather, he had bystanders imploring him about the situation and he just - sat there, hands in his pockets, that's a willful decision to keep choking out GF and way beyond any reasonable window of time for you to say it was a split second heat of the instant decision etc.

That officer is just as guilty if chauvan is....she should have had her taser/handgun on differing sides of her body.....I understand even both are marked what they are ...she had a body cam on her...she could have easily voiced her mistake to take the blame off her...

fyi he wasn't sat with his hands in his pockets as I have pointed out numerous times on here.

penny piper · 15-04-2021 04:18PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't think Chauvin's hands are in his pockets. You can see Chauvin's fingers in this photo (not great quality admittedly). Looks like black gloves on a black trousers.

So true I have pointed this out numerous times on here....he has black gloves on, resting on his own thigh.. at a distance from the sidewalk most of the bystanders would think he had his hands in his pocket...

Overheal · 15-04-2021 04:18PM

Still, Chauvin had a lot of time to assess the situation, and his actions led to Floyd's death in his custody.

ACitizenErased · 15-04-2021 04:21PM

Overheal wrote: »

Still, Chauvin had a lot of time to assess the situation, and his actions led to Floyd's death in his custody.

The question isn't whether or not he killed Floyd (spoiler: he did) it's whether he did it intentionally or not imo

Overheal · 15-04-2021 04:27PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The question isn't whether or not he killed Floyd (spoiler: he did) it's whether he did it intentionally or not imo

That's going to depend on statute I think. Murder in the third I think is foregone at least. Second degree in MN, maybe, but unlikely, and first seems very unlikely.

penny piper · 15-04-2021 04:30PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The question isn't whether or not he killed Floyd (spoiler: he did) it's whether he did it intentionally or not imo

I don't think he intentionally tried to kill floyd at all.....

15-04-2021 04:38PM

penny piper wrote: »

I don't think he intentionally tried to kill floyd at all.....

Do you accept he killed him?

Overheal · 15-04-2021 04:38PM

penny piper wrote: »

I don't think he intentionally tried to kill floyd at all.....

He did intend to keep choking him, though, and that's a pretty important matter.

Would, "I just meant to hurt him with the gun, not murder him," be an apt defense against murder one? You still premeditated shooting them with a gun. Chauvin didn't eat breakfast while planning this disaster out but for 8-9 minutes he did sit there and continue to think 'this situation is under my control' and proceed.

bazermc · 15-04-2021 04:40PM

I don’t understand what happened today with Tobin on the stand and a near miss trial.

Can anybody explain ?

Thanks!

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 15-04-2021 04:42PM

penny piper wrote: »

From what I see now in the courtroom it's just a case of how many years he will get.....10/25 years???Tobin is to be brought back for evidence.

I don't know, I think on the manslaughter charge it's gonna be guilty, can the state get the murder 3 and 2.. might get 3 won't get 2 I think.

Personally speaking here, I've strong very strong thoughts about chauvin with the fact he just sits there till the very very end when gf is being placed into the stretcher.. it's sickening to watch it.. he listened and listened and listened to the bystanders shouting and pleading to give help when gf died and he/they did nothing. The defence to then turn that around as it was their fault for being there distracting them, gimme a break!
You've mentioned what the paramedic said about the situation being tense, yeah it was tense because the crowd witnessed cops do nothing to help while also being the cause of it.. tense doesn't equal a threat in that situation it's people feeling emotion that are no where wanting to do harm to cops.

Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

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