Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

mmclo · 14-04-2021 08:50PM

Blut2 wrote: »

No, its mandatory in operation exactly as its laid out by the EU.

The only half caveat is a window of 6 weeks to implement it for national governments, as Ray Donovan mentions. But that still means by roughly July 15th at the absolute latest the Irish government won't be able to keep people traveling freely to and from anywhere in the EU.

Again this is not how it works, a member state can have restrictions as long as they apply equally to all EU citizens and they have to notify the Commission, there might be disapproval and some ECJ case in 2 years time on free movement but nothing could be done to a country having a strict approach to quarantine etc in the here and now. I would prefer if it was otherwise but a read of the regulation supports this

mmclo · 14-04-2021 08:52PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How will it be mandatory? Ireland is not schengen. We retained control of our borders

It's not a JHA matter, they cite the relevant Treaty provisions in the preamble, it is a freedom of movement regulation

Del Griffith · 14-04-2021 08:53PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Hi Del,

Mary at the Aer Lingus check-in desk is not moonlighting for US CBP on the side.

She will check your visa or ESTA. If you don't have it, she won't allow you to check in there at the desk

Hi Donald do you think the prescreening border controls operated by the United States Department of Homeland Security might have anything to do with it?

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 08:56PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Hi Donald do you think the prescreening border controls operated by the United States Department of Homeland Security might have anything to do with it?

No Del.

Not all flights from Dublin to the US go through pre-clearance.

They will still check for your Visa or Esta.

No point losing your head and using abusive language because you don't know. You are only making a show of yourself and highlighting that you don't know. Because most other people on here will be aware.

I deleted the abusive end to the quote given that you had deleted it from yours

Del Griffith · 14-04-2021 08:57PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah, not really. Plenty of people still care enough to make a bit of an effort. There are of course always going to be the selfish few that want to piss on everyone else's efforts but you'll get that everywhere.

I can't wait to piss on your efforts, I might fly home just to throw a party on arrival. I certainly will in the summer, without a 2nd thought.

Honestly you'd want to be some FF crotch stiffer to be following any of this bollox now. I actually laugh about it reading some of the more cowardly posts (the minority now thankfully), they amuse me.

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 08:58PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

I can't wait to piss on your efforts, I might fly home just to throw a party on arrival. I certainly will in the summer, without a 2nd thought.

Honestly you'd want to be some FF crotch stiffer to be following any of this bollox now. I actually laugh about it reading some of the more cowardly posts (the minority now thankfully), they amuse me.

You seem to be losing the head and the run of yourself on here. You should calm down

Cowardly is not standing up and doing the right thing Del. Just remember that

Del Griffith · 14-04-2021 09:00PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

No Del.

Not all flights from Dublin to the US go through pre-clearance.

They will still check for your Visa or Esta.

No point losing your head and using abusive language because you don't know. You are only making a show of yourself and highlighting that you don't know. Because most other people on here will be aware.

I deleted the abusive end to the quote given that you had deleted it from yours

Oh no you mentioned my abusive language.. sketch?

You are 100% wrong anyway, as usual. All passengers travelling directly to the US from Dublin Airport go through US Preclearance. You can Google it there since you are terrified of airports.

Go on, change the subject..

arccosh · 14-04-2021 09:04PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Niner, would you take a case against Ryanair if you got mixed up and arrived at Stansted airport (after flying out to London with Aer Lingus) with only your driving licence and weren't let on the plane home

A passport isn't a legal requirement for travel from UK to Ireland. You can't just demand X/Y/Z always and expect to win

"Driving licenses are not acceptable for travel with Ryanair between the UK and Ireland. No exceptions will be made. The travel documents required for domestic flights differ from country to country, click below for further details."

https://www.ryanair.com/us/en/useful-info/travel-documentation/travel-documentation

edit: aer lingus do

saabsaab · 14-04-2021 09:09PM

A country is well within its rights to defend its citizens from threats be that terrorism disease or any internal threat.

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 09:10PM

arccosh wrote: »

"Driving licenses are not acceptable for travel with Ryanair between the UK and Ireland. No exceptions will be made. The travel documents required for domestic flights differ from country to country, click below for further details."

https://www.ryanair.com/us/en/useful-info/travel-documentation/travel-documentation

edit: aer lingus do

That is my point. Ryanair can, and will, refuse to carry you even if you have satisfy the legal requirements for entry to your destination. They can "deny your right" to travel home even if you have paid for your ticket.

There would be small print that would allow them to do so. I would be very surprised if there were not small print in there too that would allow them to refuse to let you to board for other reasons.

14-04-2021 09:10PM

mmclo wrote: »

It's not a JHA matter, they cite the relevant Treaty provisions in the preamble, it is a freedom of movement regulation

It's not a regulation. They have said it themselves multiple times.

Ireland had no obligation to allow people on holidays. None.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Niner, would you take a case against Ryanair if you got mixed up and arrived at Stansted airport (after flying out to London with Aer Lingus) with only your driving licence and weren't let on the plane home

A passport isn't a legal requirement for travel from UK to Ireland. You can't just demand X/Y/Z always and expect to win

Nope, because it's clearly in their terms and conditions.

You do understand the difference between a company not allowing someone to fly within their terms and conditions and enforcing the law, yes?

Ryanair can demand a pcr test if they want. No one is disputing that. That is not the same as demanding that they now enforce Irish law.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Hi Del,

Mary at the Aer Lingus check-in desk is not moonlighting for US CBP on the side.

She will check your visa or ESTA. If you don't have it, she won't allow you to check in there at the desk

Again, within terms and conditions and not for us citizens. Mary also doesn't issue a fine and arrest you.

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 09:14PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's not a regulation. They have said it themselves multiple times.

Ireland had no obligation to allow people on holidays. None.

Nope, because it's clearly in their terms and conditions.

You do understand the difference between a company not allowing someone to fly within their terms and conditions and enforcing the law, yes?

Again, within terms and conditions and not for us citizens. Mary also doesn't issue a fine and arrest you.

See previous post Niner. I'd imagine they have it in their T's&C's that they can deny your boarding pretty much at their discretion.

Mary won't allow you to check in without an ESTA/visa because Aer Lingus would get a fine if you landed over there without a valid one. It works the same in reverse too. AL are not checking for it just for the craic. You can have one, but if you refuse to show it, she can "deny your rights" by not letting you fly and it would be your own fault. You could try taking her to the UN Court of Justice if you wanted. I wouldn't recommend it though

mmclo · 14-04-2021 09:18PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's not a regulation. They have said it themselves multiple times.

Proposal for a REGULATION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL on a framework for the issuance, verification and acceptance of interoperable certificates on vaccination, testing and recovery to facilitate free movement during the COVID-19 pandemic (Digital Green Certificate)
COM/2021/130 final

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52021PC0130

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 09:24PM

For Niner. From AL terms and conditions

ARTICLE 7 - REFUSAL AND LIMITATION OF CARRIAGE
7.1 RIGHT TO REFUSE CARRIAGE
We may also refuse to carry you or your Baggage if one or more of the
following have occurred or we reasonably believe may occur:

7.1.1
such action is necessary in order to comply with any applicable government
laws, regulations or orders;

7.1.16
you have failed to meet government, public health body, or other government
enforcement body, health requirements applicable for the country you are travelling to
including your refusal or failure to undergo health screening, testing, or a health
examination required by us or by a government or enforcement agency;

If MHQ is a requirement (hint, the clue is in the M part of the name) then they can easily quote paragraph 7.1.6 of their T's&C's.

No need to get the UN involved after all!

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 09:30PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Oh no you mentioned my abusive language.. sketch?

You are 100% wrong anyway, as usual. All passengers travelling directly to the US from Dublin Airport go through US Preclearance. You can Google it there since you are terrified of airports.

Go on, change the subject..

Well Del. I lived in the US for many years and flew back and forth regularly. There used to be some flights that did pre-clearance and some that did not. More may use it now.

Regardless of that, pre-clearance has nothing to do with the check-in desk checking for your Visa or Esta. You can fly from London to NY, and they will still check for a valid Visa or Esta at the check in desk in London

In fact, pre-clearance negates part of the purpose of that check - the bit where they would have to fly you back to where you came from if you did not have them in order when you landed at the US

actually! · 14-04-2021 09:44PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well Del. I lived in the US for many years and flew back and forth regularly. There used to be some flights that did pre-clearance and some that did not. More may use it now.

Not sure about that. I have flown this route at least 60 times in the last 30 years. I don't recall a single time where I did not use pre clearance in Ireland. The only time I went through immigration in the US was if I flew via another country.

mmclo · 14-04-2021 09:49PM

actually! wrote: »

Not sure about that. I have flown this route at least 60 times in the last 30 years. I don't recall a single time where I did not use pre clearance in Ireland. The only time I went through immigration in the US was if I flew via another country.

Come on folks there are two separate systems, the U.S. has border control in Ireland exercising precisely the same function as they do in JFK by way of an agreement (treaty I presume) with Ireland.

The airlines are subject to laws mainly connected with asylum and illegal immigration where they are liable to fly back people who don't have the right documents at the airlines expense

The Government suggests (?) it might impose a similar obligation on airlines related to MHQ, naturally the airlines are resisting

14-04-2021 09:55PM

Sorry if this has been answered already, but is it true that a test isn't required when traveling from Ireland to the UK? And that people traveling from Ireland to the UK aren't required to quarantine? That's what I read, but, as things are changing rapidly and daily, that information might be out of date.

Feria40 · 14-04-2021 09:57PM

For anyone interested in whats in the works re the proposed EU Digital Green Cert

https://www.thejournal.ie/council-of-eu-5410140-Apr2021/?utm_source=twitter_short

Per same:

"If approved by the European Parliament, the Irish Government would be obliged to issue Digital Green Certificates when they are requested by citizens for international travel"

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 09:58PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry if this has been answered already, but is it true that a test isn't required when traveling from Ireland to the UK? And that people traveling from Ireland to the UK aren't required to quarantine? That's what I read, but, as things are changing rapidly and daily, that information might be out of date.

Yes that is 100% correct, traveling from Ireland to the UK can be done without any testing or quarantining but you need a negative PCR 3 days before departure on your way back

14-04-2021 09:59PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Yes that is 100% correct, traveling from Ireland to the UK can be done without any testing or quarantining but you need a negative PCR 3 days before departure on your way back

Thanks a million.

actually! · 14-04-2021 10:00PM

mmclo wrote: »

Come on folks there are two separate systems, the U.S. has border control in Ireland exercising precisely the same function as they do in JFK by way of an agreement (treaty I presume) with Ireland.

Did someone say otherwise? I certainly did not.

jellies · 14-04-2021 10:04PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks a million.

You can also travel to Belfast and no test required.

14-04-2021 10:07PM

jellies wrote: »

You can also travel to Belfast and no test required.

Thanks. I didn't know that. I was surprised when I read on the UK Government website that a test wasn't required when traveling from Ireland. Pleasantly surprised. And I think it's still the case that a passport isn't required to travel from Ireland to the UK, but I might be wrong on that one.

mmclo · 14-04-2021 10:15PM

Feria40 wrote: »

For anyone interested in whats in the works re the proposed EU Digital Green Cert

https://www.thejournal.ie/council-of-eu-5410140-Apr2021/?utm_source=twitter_short

Per same:

"If approved by the European Parliament, the Irish Government would be obliged to issue Digital Green Certificates when they are requested by citizens for international travel"

Yes the regulation is under the "ordinary legislative procedure" so we would be bound by it, like most QMV laws it appears to be by consensus anyway. I still think Ireland could maintain stricter measures under a green cert but by the time it's adopted it seems we will not require vaccinated people to do MHQ

mmclo · 14-04-2021 10:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks. I didn't know that. I was surprised when I read on the UK Government website that a test wasn't required when traveling from Ireland. Pleasantly surprised. And I think it's still the case that a passport isn't required to travel from Ireland to the UK, but I might be wrong on that one.

Probably the only time the UK talk more about the Common Travel Area than we do, it's all over their travel advice which I've never seen before

Feria40 · 14-04-2021 10:20PM

mmclo wrote: »

Yes the regulation is under the "ordinary legislative procedure" so we would be bound by it, like most QMV laws it appears to be by consensus anyway. I still think Ireland could maintain stricter measures under a green cert but by the time it's adopted it seems we will not require vaccinated people to do MHQ

How would that work though? As in Ireland maintaining stricter measures if/when it signs up to this agreement?

Snooker Loopy · 14-04-2021 10:29PM

dan786 wrote: »

Friend of mine came back from India yesterday and was saying the cases are being under reported there and it is much worse than what's being reported (which is already very high numbers). Surprised that India is not in the UK red list or the Irish list whereas countries with much lower numbers are on the list.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/14/a-tsunami-of-cases-desperation-as-covid-second-wave-batters-india?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

“People became so complacent, acting as if the virus had vanished which was absurd,” said Senthil, who is a urologist in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu.

"Now we are experiencing a wave of coronavirus infections that is far worse than the first and the magnitude of the spread is getting worse and worse. In Tamil Nadu it has taken just 15 days to reach the same level of cases in hospitals which was the peak last time. In the big cities in the state, the hospitals are already almost full.”

mmclo · 14-04-2021 10:33PM

Feria40 wrote: »

How would that work though? As in Ireland maintaining stricter measures if/when it signs up to this agreement?

It appears to be provided for, not saying it will happen, but it may be why Irish Government are relatively relaxed about it and of course that it won't take effect for a while

"Article 10
Notification procedure

1.Where a Member State requires holders of certificates referred to in Article 3 to undergo, after entry into its territory, quarantine, self-isolation or a test for SARS-CoV-2 infection, or if it denies entry to such persons, it shall notify the other Member States and the Commission before the planned introduction of such restrictions. To that end, the Member State shall supply the following information:

(a)the reasons for such restrictions, including all relevant epidemiological data supporting such restrictions;

(b)the scope of such restrictions, specifying which travellers are subject to or exempt from such restrictions;

(c)the date and duration of the restrictions.

Where necessary, the Commission may request additional information from the Member State concerned."

Its possible then based on this information the Commission might consider enforcement procedures under Art 21 TFEU (Freedom of Movement) but by the time that would come around Covid might be a distant memory

Tazz T · 14-04-2021 10:46PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Hi Del,

Mary at the Aer Lingus check-in desk is not moonlighting for US CBP on the side.

She will check your visa or ESTA. If you don't have it, she won't allow you to check in there at the desk

It's Helen

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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