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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6212
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    One of the major features of COVID-19, as with influenza and many other ailments, is ARDS - acute respiratory distress syndrome, and the concomitant effects this has on organ failure. This isn't new - it has been around for as long as medicine itself.

    ARDS does not spread. To say, therefore, that "...the disease (COVID-19) is spreading", is false - because ARDS does not spread. It is the effect that a small number of patients happen to experience when exposed to viral replication.

    The virus spreads.

    Upwards of 20 percent of people infected exhibit no symptoms whatsoever. Are you now saying they have a "disease"?

    Of course not.

    Enough with this arrant nonsense.

    So one of the elements not spreading to everyone doesn't make COVID-19 a disease then?

    What's your qualification to make that statement?

    Again, when someone is presented with the facts they dismiss it as 'nonsense'. Why is that? It doesn't suit their narrative?

    COVID-19 is the name of the disease. That is a fact. Disease can be spread. The disease COVID-19 can be spread. And when you consider especially in late December/early January they stopped asymptomatic close contact testing, then it's fair to say we were dealing with people who had been spreading disease.

    I'm sorry that the word 'disease' scares you so much but they are the facts of the matter here.


  • #6213
    External Association
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    Tokyo wrote: »
    Mod: External Association - based on this and other posts, I'm finding it hard to believe you're not trying to get a rise out of people, i.e. low level trolling. Rein it in or I'll remove your access here.

    I'm very genuine Tokyo. Just that poster had a cut, and I had a wee cut back.

    I'm know you couldn't stop discussion on such a big topic. But I also am genuine in saying that a break from it all would do people good.

    Regarding repetition, back and forth etc I feel the covid fora aren't worth it. yes lots of excellent contributions and people want to hear swabs and cases. But you'll hear them later in the day anyway.

    I'm off for the evening so there'll be no trouble with me.


  • #6214
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,302 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Deleted User wrote: »
    One of the major features of COVID-19, as with influenza and many other ailments, is ARDS - acute respiratory distress syndrome, and the concomitant effects this has on organ failure. This isn't new - it has been around for as long as medicine itself.

    ARDS does not spread. To say, therefore, that "...the disease (COVID-19) is spreading", is false - because ARDS does not spread. It is the effect that a small number of patients happen to experience when exposed to viral replication.

    The virus spreads.

    Upwards of 20 percent of people infected exhibit no symptoms whatsoever. Are you now saying they have a "disease"?

    Of course not.

    Enough with this arrant nonsense.

    Per the Mayo Clinic et Al
    Coronavirus Disease 2019(COVID-19) is a contagious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)


  • #6215
    saabsaab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Good news another 500,000 Pfizer doses coming to Ireland this quarter. Moving on to the 65-69 category too..


  • #6216
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Per the Mayo Clinic et Al

    No no, Dr Eskimohunt knows all and everyone else is chatting 'nonsense'.


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  • #6217
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    On Today FM yesterday there was a poll where they asked who would get the AstraZeneca vaccine. 76% text in to say they would get it while 24% said they would not. It would be interesting to know how many of those 24% would not get ANY vaccine.

    It's becoming evident now at this stage that most people yet to get the vaccine want it, not really to protect themselves from Covid, but to get out of this mess. This Irish Times survey in October says 55% of people would get the vaccine. So even knowing what we know now about blood clots more people would be willing to get the vaccine now. I'd have more of a chance of getting a blood clot being on the contraceptive pill then I would getting the AZ vaccine. It's very frustrating.

    Hopefully all this talk from last week about vaccine bonuses or additional freedoms for those who have had the vaccine will stop now. It's not the right time to be doing that type of kite flying.


  • #6218
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Per the Mayo Clinic et Al

    Coronavirus Disease 2019(COVID-19) is a contagious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)

    This is accurate.

    COVID-19 is a disease - and the virus which causes it is contagious, hence why they referenced the virus at the end of the definition.

    All you have done is provide evidence to support my position.


  • #6219
    saabsaab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Per the Mayo Clinic et Al


    Good to know, ta. terrible to die of a non-disease.


  • #6220
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Faugheen wrote: »

    COVID-19 is the name of the disease. That is a fact. Disease can be spread. The disease COVID-19 can be spread. And when you consider especially in late December/early January they stopped asymptomatic close contact testing, then it's fair to say we were dealing with people who had been spreading disease.

    I'm sorry that the word 'disease' scares you so much but they are the facts of the matter here.

    COVID-19 is the name of the clinical manifestation that some people experience when exposed to a virus that is spreading around a community.

    I really can't make it simpler than that. I really cannot.


  • #6221
    accensi0n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    Deleted User wrote: »
    COVID-19 is the name of the clinical manifestation that some people experience when exposed to a virus that is spreading around a community.

    I really can't make it simpler than that. I really cannot.

    Why does the red warning banner at the top of this WHO page mention disease?

    https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus

    "There is a current outbreak of Coronavirus (COVID-19) disease"


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  • #6222
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    accensi0n wrote: »
    Why does the red warning banner at the top of this WHO page mention disease?

    https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus

    "There is a current outbreak of Coronavirus (COVID-19) disease"

    That's true, too.

    But the statement, "...the disease is spreading", is false - because only viruses spread who, in some people, manifest with symptoms of a disease.

    The pathological vector of transmission is the virus itself - and the virus alone.


  • #6223
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    COVID-19 is the name of the clinical manifestation that some people experience when exposed to a virus that is spreading around a community.

    I really can't make it simpler than that. I really cannot.

    COVID-19 is the name of the disease. When people talk about 'the disease' they are talking about COVID-19.

    I don't know how you can possibly deny any of that. People with COVID-19 (the disease) have infected others with COVID-19 (the disease) through close contacts. That is the literal definition of what an infectious disease is.


  • #6224
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    FWIW talk about distinguishing the virus from the disease is a typical starting point of the anti-lockdown loons who want to pretend there's no real health emergency and that people are having the wool pulled over their eyes because the level of "disease" is small.

    Everyone knows that there is a difference. But in the context of viral spread and infection spread, it doesn't matter. In terms of cases and infection control, it is irrelevant who has Covid-19 and who has merely tested positive for the virus.

    It's not a grand conspiracy by NPHET or anyone else to make this a bigger deal, the two terms are used interchangeably to avoid confusion because at the macro level it doesn't actually matter.

    There was a similar HIV/AIDS debate in the 90s. That care should be taken to distinguish between HIV+ and AIDS.

    The main reason this agenda was pushed back then was because there was considerable denial. Denial that someone with AIDS could spread AIDS. Denial that HIV caused AIDS. In the 1980s and 1990s, everyone who contracted HIV, developed AIDS. So there was functionally no difference in saying someone had HIV or had AIDS.

    This is the same thing. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference to say that someone is virus positive or has Covid-19. Either way they can spread the virus and cause disease.


  • #6225
    darem93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭darem93


    I'd say there is a large amount of people - myself included - who would be more than willing to take the risk and accept the AZ or the J&J vaccine if it meant getting back to any normality that bit sooner.


  • #6226
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    FWIW talk about distinguishing the virus from the disease is a typical starting point of the anti-lockdown loons who want to pretend there's no real health emergency and that people are having the wool pulled over their eyes because the level of "disease" is small.

    Everyone knows that there is a difference. But in the context of viral spread and infection spread, it doesn't matter. In terms of cases and infection control, it is irrelevant who has Covid-19 and who has merely tested positive for the virus.

    It's not a grand conspiracy by NPHET or anyone else to make this a bigger deal, the two terms are used interchangeably to avoid confusion because at the macro level it doesn't actually matter.

    As this thread has shown, clearly not everyone.

    Whether it matters is another question altogether. And I would largely agree with the rest of your tangential points.

    And for what it's worth, I am not an anti-lockdownist nor do I believe that NPHET have tailored together some grand conspiracy.

    Nomenclature matters, and it's use should be as accurate as possible when communicating with the public.

    The same question goes for "a new virus" when referring to B117 variant. Again, this kind of miscommunication matters (in my view).


  • #6227
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    darem93 wrote: »
    I'd say there is a large amount of people - myself included - who would be more than willing to take the risk and accept the AZ or the J&J vaccine if it meant getting back to any normality that bit sooner.

    On this actually. If there are concerns I don't see why there can't be a 'check the box' option on this portal.

    As in 'check the box if you are willing to receive AZ. Read here for information around potential side effects' etc etc.

    If it is a safe vaccine then I don't understand why they just don't let people choose for themselves.


  • #6228
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As this thread has shown, clearly not everyone.

    Whether it matters is another question altogether. And I would largely agree with the rest of your tangential points.

    And for what it's worth, I am not an anti-lockdownist nor do I believe that NPHET have tailored together some grand conspiracy.

    But you are the one getting uppity about spreading disease and how it scares people, when you are literally the only person I have come across that has had an issue with this.


  • #6229
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,400 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    darem93 wrote: »
    I'd say there is a large amount of people - myself included - who would be more than willing to take the risk and accept the AZ or the J&J vaccine if it meant getting back to any normality that bit sooner.

    I'd sign up tomorrow if it ment i could get back to going to the gym, going out for dinner, playing with the brother's kids, going to the cinema etc.


  • #6230
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Faugheen wrote: »
    On this actually. If there are concerns I don't see why there can't be a 'check the box' option on this portal.

    As in 'check the box if you are willing to receive AZ. Read here for information around potential side effects' etc etc.

    If it is a safe vaccine then I don't understand why they just don't let people choose for themselves.
    It's not generally how medicine in this country works to be fair, it would be a significant departure from standard practice.

    Where a medicine is not recommended for a certain class of people, and there are equivalent effective medicines available, then a doctor will only prescribe the alternative, and the patient doesn't get to demand it.

    This is basically the same thing, but on a broader scale. It is not recommended for under-60s and an alternative exists, therefore it is not in the interests of public health to offer it to them.

    I believe they should make an exception, really. I fear there'd be too much bureaucracy in it though. Realistically AZ & J&J should be offered to men under 60 if they're willing to check the "yep, I'm happy" box, but I think there may be too much fear of political fallout were that to be allowed.


  • #6231
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    Faugheen wrote: »
    On this actually. If there are concerns I don't see why there can't be a 'check the box' option on this portal.

    As in 'check the box if you are willing to receive AZ. Read here for information around potential side effects' etc etc.

    If it is a safe vaccine then I don't understand why they just don't let people choose for themselves.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-what-is-the-blood-clot-risk-from-the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-how-does-it-compare-12268572

    From the article, odds of getting a clot after getting the vaccine: one in 250,000, or 0.0004%.

    Odds of getting a blood clot from the contraceptive pill: one in 2,000 or 0.05%.

    Further on in the article: In the US, the National Blood Clot Alliance estimates that one in 1,000 women per year who are taking birth control pills will develop a clot, putting the risk at 0.1%.

    We seriously need to think outside the box on this one.


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  • #6232
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,602 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    seamus wrote: »
    It's not generally how medicine in this country works to be fair, it would be a significant departure from standard practice.

    Where a medicine is not recommended for a certain class of people, and there are equivalent effective medicines available, then a doctor will only prescribe the alternative, and the patient doesn't get to demand it.

    This is basically the same thing, but on a broader scale. It is not recommended for under-60s and an alternative exists, therefore it is not in the interests of public health to offer it to them.

    I believe they should make an exception, really. I fear there'd be too much bureaucracy in it though. Realistically AZ & J&J should be offered to men under 60 if they're willing to check the "yep, I'm happy" box, but I think there may be too much fear of political fallout were that to be allowed.

    I agree we should get the option, I wasn't giving the news conference my full attention but I thought they said men and women were equally likely (or unlikely) to get a clot after astra, that the reason more women had issues was that women had that vaccine.


  • #6233
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-what-is-the-blood-clot-risk-from-the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-how-does-it-compare-12268572

    From the article, odds of getting a clot after getting the vaccine: one in 250,000, or 0.0004%.

    Odds of getting a blood clot from the contraceptive pill: one in 2,000 or 0.05%.

    Further on in the article: In the US, the National Blood Clot Alliance estimates that one in 1,000 women per year who are taking birth control pills will develop a clot, putting the risk at 0.1%.

    You might as well be comparing the odds of a baseball team and gaa team to decide who'll win at basketball. The vaccine is potentially linked to a very specific clotting disorder. The pill has no such link. Comparisons of odds is meaningless.


  • #6234
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    431 new cases/12 additional deaths.


  • #6235
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    431 cases 12 deaths


  • #6236
    Jammyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭Jammyd


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    451 new cases/12 additional deaths.

    431 and 12 deaths

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0414/1209770-ireland-covid-figures/


  • #6237
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Of the deaths reported today, 4 occurred in April, 2 occurred in March and 6 occurred in January.


  • #6238
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1382376620862898185

    Today's case breakdown


  • #6239
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Crazy that January is still the highest part of the daily reported deaths most of the last week.


  • #6240
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,357 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    darem93 wrote: »
    I'd say there is a large amount of people - myself included - who would be more than willing to take the risk and accept the AZ or the J&J vaccine if it meant getting back to any normality that bit sooner.

    I'd go back to normal without any vaccine in the morning.


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  • #6241
    blowitupref
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    7 day average in cases 402 it was 501 last Wednesday.


This discussion has been closed.
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