Minnesota officer shoots dead another innocent black victim

wicklowstevo · 14-04-2021 1:08am

Overheal wrote: »

Are you saying your skin color determines how violent you are?

We honestly don't know who all 7 in 10 murderers are, or what their race is. The closure rate for murders is far below the measure you'd need to make conclusions about homicide perps and their race - only 6 in 10. The clearance rate for lesser crimes is no better - in most categories its far lesser.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/194213/crime-clearance-rate-by-type-in-the-us/

Of the 9,468 murder arrests in the US in 2017, 53.5% were black and 20.8% Hispanic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

13 percent of the population yet 53.4 % of murder arrest

seems like you got this information many times before

Overheal · 14-04-2021 1:10am

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Of the 9,468 murder arrests in the US in 2017, 53.5% were black and 20.8% Hispanic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

13 percent of the population yet 53.4 % of murder arrest

seems like you got this information many times before

Arrests, again, are not convictions.

This only shows that cops are really good at arresting black and brown murder suspects. It seems hard to believe that whites would only make up 26% or less of murders while being 76.3% of the pop. Seems like they just might get away with it more - which could explain that unclosed 40% of murders. Do you know how many people go missing in Oregon National Parks? And how white Oregon is?

wicklowstevo · 14-04-2021 1:16am

Overheal wrote: »

Arrests, again, are not convictions.

This only shows that cops are really good at arresting black and brown murder suspects. It seems hard to believe that whites would only make up 26% or less of murders while being 76.3% of the pop. Seems like they just might get away with it more - which could explain that unclosed 40% of murders. Do you know how many people go missing in Oregon National Parks? And how white Oregon is?

sorry lad your a parody of the left . and I aint feeding you sadness anymore

Tell me how · 14-04-2021 1:58am

nullzero wrote: »

I'll agree if you can prove unequivocally that this person was purposefully shot because of their skin colour alone.

I don't care whether you agree or not, when the supposedly best country in the world has several stories every year of inappropriate behavior by cops, something has to be done irrespective of whether it falls in to a category which you'd finally accept was inappropriate.

Potential-Monke · 14-04-2021 2:30am

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't care whether you agree or not, when the supposedly best country in the world has several stories every year of inappropriate behavior by cops, something has to be done irrespective of whether it falls in to a category which you'd finally accept was inappropriate.

"Several" out of 697,195 (2019) cops doesn't sound like a lot, and considering there were about 8.13 million reported crimes in 2019, that's a pretty good stat. Well, depends on your definition of several I suppose.

And we all know it's far from the best country in the world. It's a lie even Americans are starting to not believe. The biggest flaw with policing in America is humanity. Humans make errors all the time. It's literally impossible to be 100% by the book 100% of the time. Impossible, and unless you have 1st hand experience of policing on the front line, you can't say otherwise. In an ideal world, you could, but it can't happen while humans are involved, simple as that, as it really is one of those jobs that you need to have worked to really understand what it's like.

Tell me how · 14-04-2021 2:43am

Potential-Monke wrote: »

"Several" out of 697,195* cops doesn't sound like a lot, and considering there were about 8.13 million reported crimes in 2019, that's a pretty good stat. Well, depends on your definition of several I suppose.

And we all know it's far from the best country in the world. It's a lie even Americans are starting to not believe. The biggest flaw with policing in America is humanity. Humans make errors all the time. It's literally impossible to be 100% by the book 100% of the time. Impossible, and unless you have 1st hand experience of policing on the front line, you can't say otherwise. In an ideal world, you could, but it can't happen while humans are involved, simple as that, as it really is one of those jobs that you need to have worked to really understand what it's like.

Ah, I think you'll find we can. It's called having an opinion.

That aside, I said on here earlier that americas love for guns has created this knife edge mentality where people then react inappropriately. We don't see anything like the number of cases that come out of America from all the other developed world police forces which also have armed officers as opposed to the unarmed force we have in Ireland.

And aside from the 'several out of 697,195' cases being favorable ratio, I disagree, I think that for every incident that results in a fatality there are probably several more that don't end up as serious but are still fair from acceptable behavior.

GSBellew · 14-04-2021 2:44am

Overheal wrote: »

Furthermore Daunte Wright holding up a different woman, again, has no bearing on how Officers are to have composed themselves during his arrest and death. His criminal history doesn't justify what they did, so I have no appreciation for why it's being brought up, save as a reason for people to make themselves feel better about applauding that police brutality short circuited the criminal justice system.

Firstly condolences to his family & friends, but, and you're not likely to agree, whilst I will concede completely that he did not deserve to die in any way shape or form, he was ultimately the author of his own downfall.

In any experience with law enforcement either side of the Atlantic I've never felt compelled to run or attempt to run, yeah I know you'll call that white privalege, I'll call bollox to that, it's called being sensible.

Colour of skin didnt come into it when you got stopped by the British army on a border road in an Irish reg car, guns pointed at your head, dead in a second if they felt like it, answer the questions and move on, I'm still here, so I guess I did something right.

I don't know what the chances of me being shot whilst being compliant were, but I do know for certain that they were guaranteed to be less than if I attempted to evade or escape, bear in mind these soilders were often young troops, scared, far from home, in areas they could be ambushed & arguably trigger happy.

Unfortunate case, but he should have just accepted the arrest peacefully & he would still be alive.

nullzero · 14-04-2021 7:05am

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't care whether you agree or not, when the supposedly best country in the world has several stories every year of inappropriate behavior by cops, something has to be done irrespective of whether it falls in to a category which you'd finally accept was inappropriate.

I asked for fact and you responded with opinion.

Have you got any proof that this person was shot because of the colour of their skin only?

ThunbergsAreGo · 14-04-2021 7:19am

Overheal wrote: »

Indeed, if race wasn't a factor in police killings, 7 in 10 police victims would be white as they are 7 in 10 of the population.

That is a childish argument that ignores a multitude of other factors.

ThunbergsAreGo · 14-04-2021 7:20am

Overheal wrote: »

Arrests, again, are not convictions.

This only shows that cops are really good at arresting black and brown murder suspects. It seems hard to believe that whites would only make up 26% or less of murders while being 76.3% of the pop. Seems like they just might get away with it more - which could explain that unclosed 40% of murders. Do you know how many people go missing in Oregon National Parks? And how white Oregon is?

Why is it hard to believe?

Fandymo · 14-04-2021 7:41am

-quote="10000maniacs;116884756"]African Americans make up 13% of the population in the USA. So in order for your point to wash, there would need to be 6 times more Caucasian people shot by the police. Yet the figure is only 1 African American person for 1.89 Caucasian's.
You need better material buddy.[/quote]

13% of the population. But what % of violent crimes are this poor, downtrodden 13% responsible for?? The more violent crime you’re involved in, the more police interactions, the more chance of being shot.

TanookiMario · 14-04-2021 8:16am

Overheal wrote: »

Indeed, if race wasn't a factor in police killings, 7 in 10 police victims would be white as they are 7 in 10 of the population.

That's not how things work and you know it.

First of all, if you rolled a dice 30 times you wouldn't come up with 5 of each number.

Second, what ratio of people killed by police are male, female and non binary etc? Is there an age breakdown? What about regional stats or stats based on population density?

Lets just focus on gender for now? Is there a 50-50 male to female split in the demographics of people killed by police. If not, why not?

Again, if the male to female ratio is not 50-50 then why do we only focus on race and disregard gender entirely. Who only focus on one single factor. Because it doesn't suit the agenda?

You must know exactly what you are doing here?

Did you know that MOST victims of police are aged between 20 and 35 years old?

Why aren't 10 year olds, 25 year old and 80 year old all being killed at the same rate? I'd love to hear your reasoning for that. Ageist cops?

14-04-2021 8:20am

Overheal wrote: »

Indeed, if race wasn't a factor in police killings, 7 in 10 police victims would be white as they are 7 in 10 of the population.

Hilariously flawed reasoning. I'm speechless.

It really shouldn't need addressing but here we are: "If sexism wasn't a factor in police killings, 1 in 2 police victims would be female as they are 1 in 2 of the population." Mind boggling.

14-04-2021 8:28am

TanookiMario wrote: »

That's not how things work and you know it.

First of all, if you rolled a dice 30 times you wouldn't come up with 5 of each number.

Second, what ratio of people killed by police are male, female and non binary etc? Is there an age breakdown? What about regional stats or stats based on population density?

Lets just focus on gender for now? Is there a 50-50 male to female split in the demographics of people killed by police. If not, why not?

Again, if the male to female ratio is not 50-50 then why do we only focus on race and disregard gender entirely. Who only focus on one single factor. Because it doesn't suit the agenda?

You must know exactly what you are doing here?

Did you know that MOST victims of police are aged between 20 and 35 years old?

Why aren't 10 year olds, 25 year old and 80 year old all being killed at the same rate? I'd love to hear your reasoning for that. Ageist cops?

Exactly. I recall there was a study done to show the flawed logic used by the woke left (who claim any discrepancy in ratios is due to racism/sexism). It looked at the number of CEOs with blue eyes vs brown eyes. The breakdown wasn't at all representative of the population... is this therefore evidence of discrimination based on eye color, when the boards vote their CEOs? The whole thing is laughable.

TanookiMario · 14-04-2021 10:10am

Student_111 wrote: »

Exactly. I recall there was a study done to show the flawed logic used by the woke left (who claim any discrepancy in ratios is due to racism/sexism). It looked at the number of CEOs with blue eyes vs brown eyes. The breakdown wasn't at all representative of the population... is this therefore evidence of discrimination based on eye color, when the boards vote their CEOs? The whole thing is laughable.

For me it wouldn't be so much about exposing the flawed logic as I think we can all see it and I think even at times the people making these points know what they are up to.

What I'd like from posters such as Overheal would be an explanation for why some disproportionate killing is OK but not others.

I don't dispute the statistics but I do question the talking points that arise out of these statistics.

People focus in on the disproportionate killing on non-whites but not the disproportionate killing of men. Young men to be even more specific.

If its crime related though then why shouldn't the factors we consider be related to crime and not race at all?

Are people with, say, outstanding warrants more likely to be killed by police than people with not criminal history at all? Are people stopped while actually breaking a law more likely to be killed than someone sitting at work? Similarly with people resisting arrest or running from cops or even factors like drug abuse. Are people doing those things more likely to be killed by police than just some woman doing her grocery shopping?

Individual case studies can show how some of these killings happened and how they could have been avoided but from a statistical point of view we should be looking at the big picture. That means not ignoring how men are 47% of the US population but account for over 95% of deaths by police.

Its probably interesting to note that the number of police officers killed while on duty is not really shared around too much.

I think at the very least we could all agree that media coverage is very selective and when combined with opinion and editorial decisions it can be used to drive public perception down some very narrow paths?

yourdeadwright · 14-04-2021 10:46am

If there one thing we have all learned from this its that ..........we all disagree with Overheal ,

I'm sure your a lovely person but its not healthy to think every time something bad happens to a black person its because of there race ,

I still can't get over your comments yesterday that people working in ER would not try as hard to save black person , Its absolute nonsense you just picked from the sky & opinions like that actually cause more trouble & divide

castletownman · 14-04-2021 11:10am

The irony is that all these woke white Irish people would totally avoid any of the rough, predominately black neighbours in any US city. Or be wary passing a group of black youths at night time in London even.

mohawk · 14-04-2021 11:18am

Overheal wrote: »

Indeed, if race wasn't a factor in police killings, 7 in 10 police victims would be white as they are 7 in 10 of the population.

What do the numbers look like when you control for socioeconomic status? Most people who have been shot by the police are male and poor. So the argument could also be made that the police are sexist and classist.

Is race a factor. I think it probably is because of negative stereotypes. However I don’t think race is the full story.

Danzy · 14-04-2021 11:46am

castletownman wrote: »

The irony is that all these woke white Irish people would totally avoid any of the rough, predominately black neighbours in any US city. Or be wary passing a group of black youths at night time in London even.

Being progressive, woke, Left has become largely a signifier of your class, moral superiority in a world full of vile Proles.

Nermal · 14-04-2021 12:20pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Why is it hard to believe?

Facts that make a nonsense of one's ideology often are.

GreeBo · 14-04-2021 12:38pm

tayto lover wrote: »

You have a better chance of surviving if you comply.

Considering that we are talking about a traffic stop, does no one see the issue in the above statement?
"surviving" a traffic stop?
Really?

Fandymo · 14-04-2021 12:42pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Considering that we are talking about a traffic stop, does no one see the issue in the above statement?
"surviving" a traffic stop?
Really?

Started as a traffic stop, was no longer a traffic stop when he tried to flee. This wasn't someone who was just pulled over and shot, an awful lot happened in between.

Ckendrick · 14-04-2021 12:56pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Considering that we are talking about a traffic stop, does no one see the issue in the above statement?
"surviving" a traffic stop?
Really?

Any encounter with the police in any country at any time has the potential to end badly for a citizen if that citizen considers that the law of the land doesn’t really apply to him/her (as has happened in this case).
99% of reasonable people do not die at the hands of the police id guess.
In places like the US that permit firearms without any real restrictions then the possibility of death or injury if you are NOT reasonable in an encounter with the police is ramped up 1000s of times.
Death or serious injury is a serious risk for both the citizen and the police officer. It all depends on who gets the upper hand...

Tell me how · 14-04-2021 1:19pm

Danzy wrote: »

Being progressive, woke, Left has become largely a signifier of your class, moral superiority in a world full of vile Proles.

And what about the non-woke?

Literally being proud of not having empathy, understanding or any sort of a desire to see fair treatment for people who do not always have it.

Seems a bizarre thing to be proud of, 'Oh, look at me, I don't give a fcuk about others, and I want you to know it'.

tjhook · 14-04-2021 1:20pm

Some people can have racist tendencies. Some can just have a heightened fear of "other". And police officers are people at the end of the day, so some may very well fall into those categories. I don't see a race motive (or any other motive) in this case, but time will tell.

I think policing in the USA has a bigger problem. Societies for thousands of years have learned the lesson that it's a bad idea to put the military on the streets. Policing and soldiering are very different tasks. But policing in parts of the USA seems to have become more militaristic in recent years. Maybe societal shock following 911? Just look at the equipment, the stances they take against "hostile" groups of citizens, their general approach/attitude that wouldn't look out of place in a squad of marines in Mogadishu. I've heard that many ex-soldiers join the police after serving, so maybe it's not too surprising.

An armed, militarised police force will amplify any cracks/divisions that may already exist in society. This case is doing damage, whether or not it is shown to have any racist element. I don't know how they can solve that with the society they have. It just makes me thankful that in Ireland we can have a largely unarmed police force.

WrenBoy · 14-04-2021 1:24pm

Tell me how wrote: »

And what about the non-woke?

Literally being proud of not having empathy, understanding or any sort of a desire to see fair treatment for people who do not always have it.

Seems a bizarre thing to be proud of, 'Oh, look at me, I don't give a fcuk about others, and I want you to know it'.

The 'woke' crowd. (hate the term) do not argue for fair treatment, they argue for special treatment depending on race, ethnicity, gender etc.

Tell me how · 14-04-2021 1:34pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

The 'woke' crowd. (hate the term) do not argue for fair treatment, they argue for special treatment depending on race, ethnicity, gender etc.

BS.

They argue that those who have been prejudiced because of their race, ethnicity, gender do not have to experience that.

And the status-quo fan club members who are largely white and male (but not exclusively in either sense) who do not experience this attack any progressive theme or individual while claiming that they have never experienced any privilege solely because of who they are. Newsflash, if you have not been motivated to call for action to help yourself, or those like you who are being treated unfairly just because of who you are, that's a privilege.

nullzero · 14-04-2021 1:38pm

Tell me how wrote: »

And what about the non-woke?

Literally being proud of not having empathy, understanding or any sort of a desire to see fair treatment for people who do not always have it.

Seems a bizarre thing to be proud of, 'Oh, look at me, I don't give a fcuk about others, and I want you to know it'.

What you are saying has no basis in reality.

This incident occurred when a mistake was made by the police officer in question. They did not set out to kill Duante Wright, and they certainly didn't do so because of his skin colour. The reaction of the officer from the body cam footage shows clearly that she did not intend to use her firearm.

This is a tragic event, but anyone stating that he should have complied with the police (which he should have) is not displaying a lack of empathy never mind being proud of such an alleged deficiency and you are well aware of how inflammatory and inaccurate that statement is in yet you choose to make it.

I asked you twice to provide evidence that Duante Wright was shot because of his skin colour and I'm still waiting for an answer whilst you fling accusations as preposterous as the above around with contempt.

WrenBoy · 14-04-2021 1:53pm

Tell me how wrote: »

BS.

They argue that those who have been prejudiced because of their race, ethnicity, gender do not have to experience that.

This is the 21st Century no one is arguing for racism or sexism or prejudiced policies except the small lunatic fringes on both ends of the spectrum. In the western world equality has by and large been achieved in our laws.
People just want to get on. But now the call is more often for equity and atonement for ancestral crimes.

Tell me how wrote: »

And the status-quo fan club members who are largely white and male (but not exclusively in either sense) who do not experience this attack any progressive theme or individual while claiming that they have never experienced any privilege solely because of who they are. Newsflash, if you have not been motivated to call for action to help yourself, or those like you who are being treated unfairly just because of who you are, that's a privilege.

Well I cant speak for the "status Quo fan club" as you call it, who is that btw? People disagree about different aspects of different topics/societal issues and is too broad to shrink down to "FOR OR AGAINST THE STATUS QUO !?"
People would agree that changes needed to be made and other things need to continue to improve but because they don't line up with the prevailing popular call of the day to "defund the police" or "dismantle whiteness" they are just lumped in with the "Status Quo fan club"

I'll remember to do a privilege check later.

Tell me how · 14-04-2021 2:00pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

This is the 21st Century no one is arguing for racism or sexism or prejudiced policies except the small lunatic fringes on both ends of the spectrum. In the western world equality has by and large been achieved in our laws.
People just want to get on. But now the call is more often for equity and atonement for ancestral crimes.

Well I cant speak for the "status Quo fan club" as you call it, who is that btw? People disagree about different aspects of different topics/societal issues and is too broad to shrink down to "FOR OR AGAINST THE STATUS QUO !?"
People would agree that changes needed to be made and other things need to continue to improve but because they don't line up with the prevailing popular call of the day to "defund the police" or "dismantle whiteness" they are just lumped in with the "Status Quo fan club"

I'll remember to do a privilege check later.

There, I did it for you.

Minnesota officer shoots dead another innocent black victim

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