Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-04-2021 10:50AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Chuck, they are (mainly) medical professionals that deal in facts. If you went for a check up and, god forbid, the doctor thought you had something serious wrong with you, then he would have to tell you. He couldn't keep it to himself because he didn't want to worry you or make you anxious by pointing out that you actually might have only 6 months left

You are correct, the majority are medical experts. Though having said that, medicine is a very wide field. If I had respiratory condition I might question the diagnosis of a gynaecologist for example. I'm an expert in my field, complete with an honours degree and professional title, that doesn't mean that I'm an expert in that entire field. I also understand that I have a duty as a professional to balance risks, and not just squeeze the life out of the industry I work in.

The other side of all this is the amount of lives being lost, or yet to be lost to mental health issue, or undetected illnesses while NPHET insist we all stay locked up. The effects of this pandemic will be far from over when the last restrictions are lifted, and while we need to be cautious, we cannot be forced to live in fear forever, based on the opinion of a small number of professionals. I'm sure similar groups are in place throughout the world, populated with medical experts, and yet they are looking to the future, looking to reopening. Are ours somehow special?

scamalert · 13-04-2021 10:52AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Chuck, they are (mainly) medical professionals that deal in facts. If you went for a check up and, god forbid, the doctor thought you had something serious wrong with you, then he would have to tell you. He couldn't keep it to himself because he didn't want to worry you or make you anxious by pointing out that you actually might have only 6 months left

I doubt doctor would cut of your balls just because he thought you had herpes, think that was separates those jumping the fence with paranoia, and actual professionals :cool: those that know better deal in research and facts, rest speculate what if worse case.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-04-2021 10:54AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

On the other side of things - advising the government on their macro level policy, that is just that - advice to the government. Who then have full discretion and responsibility to make decisions ignoring or accepting that advice in part or in full.

NPHET do not afford the government the chance to make decisions. They often make the information public before the government even get a chance to review it, and therefore hand the decision over to the public, who are neither qualified or democratically elected to make such decision. I would go so far as to call it sabotage, or bully boy tactics.

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 10:57AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

NPHET do not afford the government the chance to make decisions. They often make the information public before the government even get a chance to review it, and therefore hand the decision over to the public, who are neither qualified or democratically elected to make such decision. I would go so far as to call it sabotage, or bully boy tactics.

If the government ministers don't have the integrity or courage to make their own decisions and stand over them, then that is ultimately the public's fault for voting in wasters.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-04-2021 11:02AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

If the government ministers don't have the integrity or courage to make their own decisions and stand over them, then that is ultimately the public's fault for voting in wasters.

That still doesn't make it right though, does it? A small, very loud, minority, who none of us voted for are forcing the governments hand, and they're using NPHETs advice to do it in most cases. If the government had the time to reflect on the advice then these knee jerk reactions could be avoided. Again, the tail is wagging the dog.

normanoffside · 13-04-2021 11:03AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Another case before the high court

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1381724001014325255

Looks like they are rushing this through as well to avoid it being heard in court..

https://twitter.com/DebsNaylor/status/1381921438324654080

Corholio · 13-04-2021 11:06AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Looks like they are rushing this through as well to avoid it being heard in court..

https://twitter.com/DebsNaylor/status/1381921438324654080

Another one who the 'extreme personal circumstances' of her case is magically rolled out once she draws attention to it to outside and courts etc. Hope plenty more keep doing it.

13-04-2021 11:12AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

If the government ministers don't have the integrity or courage to make their own decisions and stand over them, then that is ultimately the public's fault for voting in wasters.

can you give it a rest, this is a travel forum, not your own forum, go back to the general covid forum!

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 11:21AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

That still doesn't make it right though, does it? A small, very loud, minority, who none of us voted for are forcing the governments hand, and they're using NPHETs advice to do it in most cases. If the government had the time to reflect on the advice then these knee jerk reactions could be avoided. Again, the tail is wagging the dog.

But that's just like, your opinion, man.

Other's don't mind NPHET giving advice.

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 11:22AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Looks like they are rushing this through as well to avoid it being heard in court..

https://twitter.com/DebsNaylor/status/1381921438324654080

Has that one not been in quarantine for the number of days anyway?

I think she is complaining that they messed up giving her the test which should have allowed her to leave on day 10

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-04-2021 11:23AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

But that's just like, your opinion, man.

I've just realised that you're not Donald Trump at all, you're Joe Biden :pac::D

13-04-2021 11:25AM

Corholio wrote: »

Another one who the 'extreme personal circumstances' of her case is magically rolled out once she draws attention to it to outside and courts etc. Hope plenty more keep doing it.

How many vaccinated people are actually in quarantine though? Thats a whole whopping 3 out of 300+

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 11:26AM

Mekhi Clean Teaspoonful wrote: »

can you give it a rest, this is a travel forum, not your own forum, go back to the general covid forum!

You've 16 posts on boards.ie, all on this forum, of which 12 on this travel thread, and not once have you mentioned any of your own travel plans or destinations you would like to visit.

I like your idea about the dedicated Donald Trump forum. I might suggest it over at the Feedback. I will have my own travel subforum on it. You would be welcome to come and post there too.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-04-2021 11:32AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How many vaccinated people are actually in quarantine though? Thats a whole whopping 3 out of 300+

Lots more to follow I'm sure though. Especially US visitors. My brother is in the states and is fully vaccinated. My sister is in the UK and vaccinated with months (front line NHS worker). My parents are in their 80's and received their second dose last Saturday. My siblings haven't seen them in up to two years. Their plan was to try and come home, tests each side, isolate 5 days and test again as a belt and braces approach. My brother can't do that, and it's not a cost issue, its a time constraint of two weeks in internment. At their age, who knows if he'll ever get to see them again. And I'm sure there are thousands of families in the same position.

faceman · 13-04-2021 11:39AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you want to get into semantics we could be here all day. The group does serve two purposes. It will allow those people to meet and discuss and coordinate. It also has input from experts too (whether people believe they are experts or not). They go back to their roles and make decisions which are directly managing the pandemic. You are correct if you are saying that there isn't an official proclamation from NPHET ordering the HSE how to manage or plan their resources, but things on the ground are being managed directly by the people who are meeting and coordinating under its auspices

On the other side of things - advising the government on their macro level policy, that is just that - advice to the government. Who then have full discretion and responsibility to make decisions ignoring or accepting that advice in part or in full.
Why do we want to waste half a day dragging Ronan Glynn into the Dail trying to explain to Danny Healy-Rae that Ronan Glynn doesn't think that eating a 9 Euro sandwich gives you immunity from the disease. While it would no doubt be entertaining for future reeling-in-the-years episodes, it would be irrelevant for today.

They advise and then the government can decide whether or not to accept that advice. The government would also be free to take advice from elsewhere. The government make the overall macro-level policy decisions. If other TDs want to protest or question and decisions, they do that with the government TDs.

There is no semantics about it. I’ve made my point clearly enough as backed up by documentation on the gov.ie website

jellies · 13-04-2021 11:47AM

Corholio wrote: »

Another one who the 'extreme personal circumstances' of her case is magically rolled out once she draws attention to it to outside and courts etc. Hope plenty more keep doing it.

The high court should just set up a booth in T2 Arrivals.

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 11:53AM

faceman wrote: »

There is no semantics about it. I’ve made my point clearly enough as backed up by documentation on the gov.ie website

Ok. You are free to believe that there is no management of covid measures done by the people in NPHET.

You are free to be wrong.

dalyboy · 13-04-2021 11:53AM

jellies wrote: »

The high court should just set up a booth in T2 Arrivals.

Ambulance chasing solicitors will morph into aeroplane chasing solicitors soon me thinks.

faceman · 13-04-2021 11:55AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ok. You are free to believe that there is no management of covid measures done by the people in NPHET.

You are free to be wrong.

That’s not what I said Donald. I said NPHET don’t manage the pandemic. I was quite clear. That statement remains correct.

jellies · 13-04-2021 12:17PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Ambulance chasing solicitors will morph into aeroplane chasing solicitors soon me thinks.

It reminds me of the sketch from the Life of Brian.
"Quarantine?". "Yes". " Line on the left".
"Quarantine?". "Eh Freedom for me." "Jolly good, off you go". "Only kidding, it's quarantine really" ðŸ˜‚

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 12:20PM

faceman wrote: »

That’s not what I said Donald. I said NPHET don’t manage the pandemic. I was quite clear. That statement remains correct.

https://assets.gov.ie/78019/cb417ba9-e584-4c12-a164-259521ebf667.pdf

Mandate: The NPHET will oversee and provide direction, guidance, support and expert advice on the development and implementation of a strategy to contain coronavirus in Ireland. It facilitates the sharing of information between the Department of Health and its agencies. It provides a forum for agreement on strategic approaches to public health emergencies.

Terms of Reference:
1. Oversee and provide direction, guidance, support and expert advice across the health service and the wider public service, for the overall national response to Coronavirus, including national and regional and other outbreak control arrangements.
2. Consider the most up to date national and international risk assessments and consider any implications for the national response.
3. Direct the collection and analysis of required data and information, as needed.
4. Review on an on-going basis the situational analyses and evaluation having regard to reports received, expert advice, international guidance and assurance regarding optimal use of resources.
5. Liaise with relevant organisations and stakeholders, to include other Government
departments, statutory and voluntary agencies, international bodies and the relevant
regulators.
6. Direct and ensure an effective communications system at local, regional and national levels.
7. Evaluate on an on-going basis the readiness of the health service to manage and sustain the containment of Coronavirus with a view to standing down the NPHET at the appropriate time, as determined by the Chair in consultation with the group.

faceman · 13-04-2021 12:38PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

https://assets.gov.ie/78019/cb417ba9-e584-4c12-a164-259521ebf667.pdf

None of that contradicts what I said

bluelamp · 13-04-2021 12:42PM

jellies wrote: »

The high court should just set up a booth in T2 Arrivals.

It's now being said that the elite athletes who are exempt from hotel quarantine will be policed to ensure they are following quarantine rules, outside of a hotel setting.... by sport ireland :rolleyes:

Politicians and government officials are fully exempt and will not be policed.

This is getting more and more comical as it goes on...

There will be so many exemptions that it becomes an even more pointless system than it was to begin with.

bikeman1 · 13-04-2021 12:53PM

This MHQ has to stop immediately. It was a joke from day 1 and is rapidly descending into a total farce.

> Politicians exempt.

> Airline / HGV / Maritime crews exempt.

> Elite Sports Stars somewhat exempt.

> Passengers sitting on the same row of seats as someone who is transiting through a non red list country are grand. The other is not.

> We will spend €1m on certain students in the new EU countries if they want to come home. Locking up healthy young students making their lives even more miserable.

> Vaccinated people locked up.

> Court cases being demanded taking up valuable court time and then not allowing the hearings and closing the case on humanitarian grounds. While some people can't attend the funeral of their parents and have to stay locked away while testing negative 3 times in a week?

This charade has to stop. People need to travel and that's that. Hunt down the variants if they are here and sequence all cases from SA and South America, but stop forcing our residents and citizens into a hotel to pretend it solves the problem, it does not.

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 12:58PM

faceman wrote: »

None of that contradicts what I said

As you said yourself, it isn't semantics. It's quite clear.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) is the mechanism for coordinating the health sector response to significant public health emergencies. It facilitates the sharing of information between the Department of Health and its agencies. It is a long-standing structure which has been utilised over many years to provide a forum to steer strategic approaches to public health emergencies in Ireland and mobilise the necessary health service responses. National Public Health

Mandate: The NPHET will oversee and provide direction, guidance, support and expert advice on the development and implementation of a strategy to contain coronavirus in Ireland. It facilitates the sharing of information between the Department of Health and its agencies. It provides a forum for agreement on strategic approaches to public health emergencies.

Terms of Reference:
1. Oversee and provide direction, guidance, support and expert advice across the health service and the wider public service, for the overall national response to Coronavirus, including national and regional and other outbreak control arrangements.
2. Consider the most up to date national and international risk assessments and consider any implications for the national response.
3. Direct the collection and analysis of required data and information, as needed.
4. Review on an on-going basis the situational analyses and evaluation having regard to reports received, expert advice, international guidance and assurance regarding optimal use of resources.
5. Liaise with relevant organisations and stakeholders, to include other Government
departments, statutory and voluntary agencies, international bodies and the relevant
regulators.
6. Direct and ensure an effective communications system at local, regional and national levels.
7. Evaluate on an on-going basis the readiness of the health service to manage and sustain the containment of Coronavirus with a view to standing down the NPHET at the appropriate time, as determined by the Chair in consultation with the group.

You are giving the impression that you think that its only raison d'etre is to give advice to the government. You are wrong on that. It is part of their function but only part.

faceman · 13-04-2021 01:20PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

As you said yourself, it isn't semantics. It's quite clear.

You are giving the impression that you think that its only raison d'etre is to give advice to the government. You are wrong on that. It is part of their function but only part.

I suggest looking up HSE National Crisis Management Team.

Donald Trump · 13-04-2021 01:34PM

faceman wrote: »

I suggest looking up HSE National Crisis Management Team.

They are included in the operational chart in that document

Now you said you weren't going on about semantics. And you are saying that NPHET have nothing to do with the management of the pandemic. But they do. That other groups also play a role does not negate that.

You are arguing now on semantics and I don't see the point of it.

faceman · 13-04-2021 01:45PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

They are included in the operational chart in that document

Now you said you weren't going on about semantics. And you are saying that NPHET have nothing to do with the management of the pandemic. But they do. That other groups also play a role does not negate that.

You are arguing now on semantics and I don't see the point of it.

You originally said:

Donald Trump wrote:

It is part of NPHET's job to manage the pandemic here

But semantics and all that

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-04-2021 02:00PM

Mr Harris said the legislation around the mandatory hotel quarantine lapses after three months so it is possible students returning in August or September may return to a “very different scenario”.

Interesting comment from Simon Harris, along with his comments about the rules changing for those already vaccinated.

Tenzor07 · 13-04-2021 02:04PM

bikeman1 wrote: »

This MHQ has to stop immediately. It was a joke from day 1 and is rapidly descending into a total farce.

I feel that someone in Government was duped by the Zero Covid lobby who managed to push through MHQ 52 weeks after it would have made any impact...

Even in Australia where they've had a strict MHQ it's meant that 10's of thousand of its citizens are stranded abroad and an entire nation confined to its own borders...and they probably won't reopen the country even with everyone vaccinated... is that what those screaming for closed borders and confine everyone in Ireland want? Indefinite closure of the country?

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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