Is Waterford served well by it's politicians at the moment?

friendlyfun · 11-04-2021 12:17pm #1

David Cullinane, Mary Butler, Matt Shanahan, and Marc O' Catasaigh.

Wanderer78 · 11-04-2021 12:23pm

very personal question really, but western politics is in a lot of trouble at the moment, we ve successfully de-democratized our political systems, theyre now very powerless, we re at a point, it almost doesnt matter who we vote in, as they have limited abilities to change much

E38E3E38E3EE33 · 11-04-2021 12:44pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

very personal question really, but western politics is in a lot of trouble at the moment, we ve successfully de-democratized our political systems, theyre now very powerless, we re at a point, it almost doesnt matter who we vote in, as they have limited abilities to change much

Can you elaborate on that a bit further please?

Wanderer2010 · 11-04-2021 12:51pm

friendlyfun wrote: »

David Cullinane, Mary Butler, Matt Shanahan, and Marc O' Catasaigh.

Im not mad about Sinn Fein but David Cullinane always shouts for us down here and doesnt shy away from interviews or challenging policies. Whether anyone is listening to him or not is another matter. At least he will come on radio to explain himself, unlike that coward Cummins.
Butler is a pure politics yes woman. If Micheal Martin said tomorrow that WRH would move all its operations to Cork immediately, she would just nod along and attempt to justify it somehow. Anything not to go against the grain. There is no sense whatsoever that she cares about Waterford and is a career politician waiting for retirement and all the financial benefits associated with it. Similar to Halligan, that way.
Shanahan seems to do a lot of work behind the scenes on the cardiac issue and the North Quays. But he doesnt seem to be a people person at all. He comes across quite abrupt in the few interviews i have heard, as if hes not comfortable around people or connecting with them.Odd career choice if hes built that way but if he gets results , it doesnt matter.
Never even heard of the other guy so he must not have been in my radar at all! Ive heard good things about Eamonn Quinlan too, he does a lot of campaigning on behalf of people affected by issues up by Mount Suir.

Wanderer78 · 11-04-2021 12:52pm

E38E3E38E3EE33 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that a bit further please?

you can see elements of this de-democratization occurring all over the world, particularly over the last few decades, in an irish context, id argue, eu treaty re-votes was actually very disturbing, since when does an electorate get a vote 'wrong'! the whole pre and post crash situation was extremely disturbing to also experience, since when does unelected institutions get to call the shoots! we need to re-democratize, or we re in big trouble.

Harry Palmr · 11-04-2021 1:20pm

In a short answer no, but in this regard they are merely upholding the ignoble tradition of collecting a pay cheque and a pension in this constituency.

To be degree it depends what you want your national level TDs and even senators to do - look after the nation first or look after the constituency first. Clearly to get reelected TD's have to pay some attention to local matters and have something they can point to that is tangible. So far they have little to show for their time in the Dail, they'd no doubt point to Covid as the reason right now but it's clear they are not protecting our interests on the University or UHW for example. If the NQP fell through (God help us!) it would be interesting to see where the fallout landed - Falcon Properties, the government parties or a shrug blaming a change in the economy post pandemic.

FF have a time server, the Greens are marginal SF are in opposition and Shanahan is an independent so we're hardly well positioned with who we elect and that doesn't feel like it'll change - FF/FG are so weak after years of failure I'd not be shocked if neither party returned anyone however Marc O'C is hardly ripping up any trees and squeaked in the last time so FG will surely hope to nab his seat. Cullinane is a shoe in just because he can't shed two quotas in one term and they could land a second with a good campaign. Shanahan could well stick about as the non party "protest" vote that won't vote SF (or anyone else).

BBM77 · 11-04-2021 9:45pm

Absolutely not. Most Waterford voters don’t vote in terms of is this candidate someone who has the potential to be a full minister. We are not going to be served well until that starts to happen. All that matters in Irish politics is weather you have a minster in your constituency. That decides weather you are served well or not. I think most Waterford voters have not copped on to this yet. It is wrong that it is like that but that is just the way it is. I mean this thing of choosing between FF, FG, SF or Labour is bull ****, what the hell is the difference?

Asdfgh2020 · 11-04-2021 11:49pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you can see elements of this de-democratization occurring all over the world, particularly over the last few decades, in an irish context, id argue, eu treaty re-votes was actually very disturbing, since when does an electorate get a vote 'wrong'! the whole pre and post crash situation was extremely disturbing to also experience, since when does unelected institutions get to call the shoots! we need to re-democratize, or we re in big trouble.

Do you think that We could end up with a ‘hair bolsonaro’ type tee-shock in a few years ?

Wanderer78 · 12-04-2021 6:46am

BBM77 wrote:

Absolutely not. Most Waterford voters donâ€™t vote in terms of is this candidate someone who has the potential to be a full minister. We are not going to be served well until that starts to happen. All that matters in Irish politics is weather you have a minster in your constituency. That decides weather you are served well or not. I think most Waterford voters have not copped on to this yet. It is wrong that it is like that but that is just the way it is. I mean this thing of choosing between FF, FG, SF or Labour is bull ****, what the hell is the difference?

So people should vote for candidates that have the best chance of becoming a minister, and ta hell with their other concerns? Oh there's very big differences in ideologies alright, but I will agree, outcomes certainly do look similar, because they are, and this is the trouble we 're in, something radically must change, or.....

Asdfgh2020 wrote:

Do you think that We could end up with a â€˜hair bolsonaroâ€™ type tee-shock in a few years ?

Anything is possible, but for the moment, id have to say no, but if we continue on our current path, that could change. anger and tension is growing, particularly amongst the young, and understandable so, as they're struggling to meet their most critical of needs, in particular housing, and by the looks of it, it's not gonna be solved before the next ge. so I'm expecting a rise in our own version of radicalisation, it's already occuring in the greens. Our own presidential election also showed, we 're well capable of the protest vote, so......

BBM77 · 12-04-2021 9:42am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So people should vote for candidates that have the best chance of becoming a minister, and ta hell with their other concerns? Oh there's very big differences in ideologies alright, but I will agree, outcomes certainly do look similar, because they are, and this is the trouble we 're in, something radically must change, or.....

That is what is happening now. Sure look at WIT for example. Are our valid concerns being addressed about the change to TUSE, no they are not. Would it be different if we had a full minister, it certainly would be.

Wanderer78 · 12-04-2021 9:50am

BBM77 wrote: »

That is what is happening now. Sure look at WIT for example. Are our valid concerns being addressed about the change to TUSE, no they are not. Would it be different if we had a full minister, it certainly would be.

true, but people truly should have the right to vote for who they want, and not be ridiculed for so, wit is a complete disaster, it was always gonna be so, i dont even bother reading the thread anymore on it, another bloody mess. i wish we would have went for the elected major, it might have helped with decentralizing our political system, its too dail biased

friendlyfun · 12-04-2021 9:55am

I don't think we should elect any Marc again. Who even knew who Marc was before this? He had been a councilor about six months? He seems like a nice guy and he's intelligent but he's focus is always going to be on the environment first and foremost. Eamonn Ryan recently said that he'd like a tax on a cheap flights to tackle climate change. That's about as popular as root canal treatment.

Before this I hadn't a high opinion of Matt Shanahan, however he's really asking all the right questions.

Gardner · 12-04-2021 9:58am

Next election Sinn Fein will return David Cullinane and Conor McGuinness while FF and FG will return a candidate each. Shanahan and O'Catasaigh are gone and rightly so.

Wanderer78 · 12-04-2021 10:18am

friendlyfun wrote: »

I don't think we should elect any Marc again. Who even knew who Marc was before this? He had been a councilor about six months? He seems like a nice guy and he's intelligent but he's focus is always going to be on the environment first and foremost. Eamonn Ryan recently said that he'd like a tax on a cheap flights to tackle climate change. That's about as popular as root canal treatment.

Before this I hadn't a high opinion of Matt Shanahan, however he's really asking all the right questions.

marc casey is a really nice fella, but the greens are really dropping the ball, theyre not able to see the bigger picture at all, our environmental issues are serious, but so to are a lot of other issues, you can see the major parties are starting to pull on the greens ideas, so id say the greens will be hung out on the next one

hardybuck · 12-04-2021 10:34am

In the space of about 6 months in 2020 Waterford had:

- One TD who embarrassed himself on the national stage when he gave a shout out to a terrorist group shortly after being elected.

- A second TD got into a row involving families of child abuse victims, conceded that she made huge errors of judgement in allowing certain people to canvass for her, and reported a Facebook group to Gardai last February in somewhat strange circumstances (I wonder if that complaint is still open or closed)?

- A senator who lost his party whip for a few months after attending a golf event which contravened Covid regulations.

People will have different expectations from their political representatives, but at least Shanahan and O'Cathasaigh have both avoided this type of controversy, so far at least.

SeanieW1977 · 12-04-2021 11:39pm

hardybuck wrote: »

In the space of about 6 months in 2020 Waterford had:

- One TD who embarrassed himself on the national stage when he gave a shout out to a terrorist group shortly after being elected.

- A second TD got into a row involving families of child abuse victims, conceded that she made huge errors of judgement in allowing certain people to canvass for her, and reported a Facebook group to Gardai last February in somewhat strange circumstances (I wonder if that complaint is still open or closed)?

- A senator who lost his party whip for a few months after attending a golf event which contravened Covid regulations.

People will have different expectations from their political representatives, but at least Shanahan and O'Cathasaigh have both avoided this type of controversy, so far at least.

Same senator who went into hiding for weeks & is a total and utter party man, doesn’t care who he will step on to climb that ladder.

Agree with rest, at least for their faults Marc & Matt are professional and represent us well.

new92 · 12-04-2021 11:47pm

hardybuck wrote: »

In the space of about 6 months in 2020 Waterford had:

- One TD who embarrassed himself on the national stage when he gave a shout out to a terrorist group shortly after being elected.

- A second TD got into a row involving families of child abuse victims, conceded that she made huge errors of judgement in allowing certain people to canvass for her, and reported a Facebook group to Gardai last February in somewhat strange circumstances (I wonder if that complaint is still open or closed)?

- A senator who lost his party whip for a few months after attending a golf event which contravened Covid regulations.

People will have different expectations from their political representatives, but at least Shanahan and O'Cathasaigh have both avoided this type of controversy, so far at least.

Agreed, although I wouldn't be too hot on voting for a Green, Cathasaigh and Shanahan have some form and seem to know their brief.

To say Cummins is embarrassing is an understatement. Butler is hopeless. Cullinane is now marmite.

Asdfgh2020 · 13-04-2021 7:06am

new92 wrote: »

Agreed, although I wouldn't be too hot on voting for a Green, Cathasaigh and Shanahan have some form and seem to know their brief.

To say Cummins is embarrassing is an understatement. Butler is hopeless. Cullinane is now marmite.

Cummins May well become a TD yet. People have really short memories......he won’t be shy about blowing his own trumpet...?

Wanderer78 · 13-04-2021 7:09am

new92 wrote:

To say Cummins is embarrassing is an understatement. Butler is hopeless. Cullinane is now marmite.

Jesus Cummins is dreadful, he's a liability for his party, there doesn't seem to any coherent message from him, just a lot of noise

Wanderer78 · 13-04-2021 7:20am

Deleted User wrote:

I think matt shanahan has been fairly good so far tbf....be happy to admit i was wrong about him

Impressed with him myself, he definitely means well, and is determined

jippo nolan · 13-04-2021 7:59am

Waterford used to be served by a top politician,
Fortunately, he recovered from a back injury and is now playing golf at our expense in Florida!!

SeanieW1977 · 13-04-2021 10:01am

jippo nolan wrote: »

Waterford used to be served by a top politician,
Fortunately, he recovered from a back injury and is now playing golf at our expense in Florida!!

How is it at our expense?

He earned a salary the same as anyone else.

And only for him there wouldn’t be a pot to piss in down here.

Typical small minded , mealy mouthed begrudging waterford comment.

friendlyfun · 13-04-2021 11:14am

Cummins is someone I could never vote for. I saw how debated last year and it was actually embarrassing. He is incredibly thin skinned (as least that's impression I got). Fine Gael's fault for running two candidates last year, they over estimated their support in Waterford. It was never going to be high giving their contempt for Waterford City and County.

hardybuck · 13-04-2021 12:23pm

I think we need to be a bit more realistic in terms of how we view these folks. Inevitably they're all human - waiting for the jokes on that but they suffer horrendous personal abuse that nobody deserves.

They'll have good and bad days in the office. They'll get more experience over time and add to their skills just like the rest of us. I don't know about the rest of ye, but I certainly wasn't the finished article in my 20s.

Getting the discussion slightly back on track to how they're doing - in fairness to those who had howlers I think they've probably all settled down.

In terms of a very crude analysis, I think Cullinane has asked about 1,200 parliamentary questions since he was re-elected. Shanahan has asked about 150 and O'Cathasaigh has asked about 87. Butler is a Minister of State so it's a bit trickier to chart which questions she's asking and which she's answering.

That's not an indication that they're performing well, but it'll give you a yardstick about some of the work they do. Cullinane will certainly benefit from having the huge resources of Sinn Fein behind them - they're probably the wealthiest and best resourced party.

BBM77 · 13-04-2021 1:24pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I think we need to be a bit more realistic in terms of how we view these folks. Inevitably they're all human - waiting for the jokes on that but they suffer horrendous personal abuse that nobody deserves.

They'll have good and bad days in the office. They'll get more experience over time and add to their skills just like the rest of us. I don't know about the rest of ye, but I certainly wasn't the finished article in my 20s.

Getting the discussion slightly back on track to how they're doing - in fairness to those who had howlers I think they've probably all settled down.

In terms of a very crude analysis, I think Cullinane has asked about 1,200 parliamentary questions since he was re-elected. Shanahan has asked about 150 and O'Cathasaigh has asked about 87. Butler is a Minister of State so it's a bit trickier to chart which questions she's asking and which she's answering.

That's not an indication that they're performing well, but it'll give you a yardstick about some of the work they do. Cullinane will certainly benefit from having the huge resources of Sinn Fein behind them - they're probably the wealthiest and best resourced party.

That is a loaded statement.

hardybuck · 13-04-2021 2:12pm

BBM77 wrote: »

That is a loaded statement.

I think it's a factual statement?

BBM77 · 13-04-2021 2:16pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I think it's a factual statement?

Well yes, but where did they get the money is the thing.

hardybuck · 13-04-2021 2:25pm

BBM77 wrote: »

Well yes, but where did they get the money is the thing.

Well obviously they've had a huge windfall from the chap from Wales that left them millions in his will.

Political donations over €2.5k are banned in Ireland, but I think they accepted the money in the UK - which doesn't have the same restrictions. I don't know if any of that money has made its way down here, but as a 32 county party who don't recognise the border I'd be surprised if it hasn't.

In addition they've raised huge sums of money on fundraising dinners etc. in America.

14-04-2021 9:21am

I don't believe we have representation.

We have elected leeches and parasites!

friendlyfun · 14-04-2021 9:46am

I think Sinn Fein probably are the wealthiest party in Ireland. There's a great degree of confidence you could say that with.

Wanderer78 · 14-04-2021 9:47am

friendlyfun wrote: »

I think Sinn Fein probably are the wealthiest party in Ireland. There's a great degree of confidence you could say that with.

i wouldnt say so, id say the main parties, ffg, would be far wealthier, or much closer to wealth, theyd certainly have much stronger connections to wealth than most other parties

hardybuck · 14-04-2021 10:38am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i wouldnt say so, id say the main parties, ffg, would be far wealthier, or much closer to wealth, theyd certainly have much stronger connections to wealth than most other parties

In Ireland parties can't take donations above €2.5k. The UK don't have those types of restrictions, and in the UK Sinn Fein have recently accepted a gift of around €4m.

They've also raised somewhere between $15-20m in America - more than any other Irish party.

I think the UK donation was a real game changer, the others can't compete with that.

They are a huge machine, a medium sized business effectively.

Wanderer78 · 14-04-2021 10:43am

hardybuck wrote: »

In Ireland parties can't take donations above €2.5k. The UK don't have those types of restrictions, and in the UK Sinn Fein have recently accepted a gift of around €4m.

They've also raised somewhere between $15-20m in America - more than any other Irish party.

I think the UK donation was a real game changer, the others can't compete with that.

They are a huge machine, a medium sized business effectively.

they dont have to take donations, both major parties clearly have strong connections to wealth, both nationally and internationally, they may not have has much wealth on their books as other parties, but they certainly have the connections, hence their position on that totem pole

hardybuck · 14-04-2021 10:49am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

they dont have to take donations, both major parties clearly have strong connections to wealth, both nationally and internationally, they may not have has much wealth on their books as other parties, but they certainly have the connections, hence their position on that totem pole

Being connected to wealth and actually having wealth are two very different things.

We're talking here about having wealth, and SF certainly have it. I'm sure the likes of Cullinane can use this to his advantage, while the likes of Shanahan as an independent won't benefit from having a corporate structure around him.

Yellow_Fern · 19-04-2021 12:21pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i wouldnt say so, id say the main parties, ffg, would be far wealthier, or much closer to wealth, theyd certainly have much stronger connections to wealth than most other parties

eh no. Sinn Fein is a money making giant https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-the-richest-political-party-in-ireland-1.4193124

Wanderer78 · 19-04-2021 2:14pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

eh no. Sinn Fein is a money making giant https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-the-richest-political-party-in-ireland-1.4193124

theyre all money making giants, again, our traditional government parties, primarily ffg, clearly have strong connections to wealth, its extremely interesting to watch the whole davys situation developing, or lack of!

Yellow_Fern · 19-04-2021 3:45pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theyre all money making giants, again, our traditional government parties, primarily ffg, clearly have strong connections to wealth, its extremely interesting to watch the whole davys situation developing, or lack of!

Everyone has connections to wealth. It doesnt mean anything. The only party that can leverage those connections are parties that operate outside the state and therefore, only SF can do serious fundraising by using the UK's free for all lobbying rules.

Wanderer78 · 19-04-2021 4:20pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Everyone has connections to wealth. It doesnt mean anything. The only party that can leverage those connections are parties that operate outside the state and therefore, only SF can do serious fundraising by using the UK's free for all lobbying rules.

strongly disagree there, again the davys situation is once again showing the true levers of power and wealth, i wouldnt be overly worried about sf's antics, even with all their dodgyness

Gael23 · 19-04-2021 4:57pm

I’m looking forward to seeing Mary butler sent packing next time

SeanieW1977 · 20-04-2021 12:01am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

eh no. Sinn Fein is a money making giant https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-the-richest-political-party-in-ireland-1.4193124

Is it just me, or is that not quite a worrying article to read?

Yellow_Fern · 20-04-2021 11:26am

Gael23 wrote: »

I’m looking forward to seeing Mary butler sent packing next time

I look forward to voting out Cullinane. He wouldn't be at the intellectual level you need for a front bench minister.

friendlyfun · 20-04-2021 11:31am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I look forward to voting out Cullinane. He wouldn't be at the intellectual level you need for a front bench minister.

Cullinane is as sharp and astute as as of them in government ministers.

Who would you support? National Party? Gemma O' Doherty, Identity Ireland?

BBM77 · 20-04-2021 11:40am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I look forward to voting out Cullinane. He wouldn't be at the intellectual level you need for a front bench minister.

What intellectual level did the current front bench ministers meet?

Harry Palmr · 20-04-2021 11:46am

Hilarious posting from the sticks.

Look at the front benches of recent decades, how many barely coherent ill briefed knuckle heads have we put up with? Loads. Cullinane ain't perfect but he has shown himself to be up to speed on his brief.

hardybuck · 20-04-2021 11:48am

What are your thoughts on your Councillors? Often they'll be more active on the ground in your communities.

Wanderer78 · 20-04-2021 12:37pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I look forward to voting out Cullinane. He wouldn't be at the intellectual level you need for a front bench minister.

id say he ll have no bother getting back in to be honest, very strong vote last time around

Harry Palmr · 20-04-2021 12:48pm

Cullinane has two quotas it'll take being "caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl" to change that.

hardybuck wrote: »

What are your thoughts on your Councillors? Often they'll be more active on the ground in your communities.

No idea who mine are, I've never thought to get in touch with one to be honest.
If there was something that needed dealing with I'd get in touch with the council dept directly.

Yellow_Fern · 20-04-2021 12:56pm

David Cullinane, Sinn Féin spokesperson on Health I may add

September 2020 "Dont close the pubs"
https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/58157

October 2020 "the government rejected the scientific advice"
"It it’s unacceptable that we have a push back [to NPHETs advice] and it’s unacceptable that we have an answering back.’

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40060010.htmlhttps://extra.ie/2020/10/06/news/politics/leo-varadkar-hot-water-criticism-nphet

20-04-2021 1:41pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I look forward to voting out Cullinane. He wouldn't be at the intellectual level you need for a front bench minister.

cullinane will likely bring in a 2nd sf td for waterford....assuming they select a high enough profile canditadate in west waterford (sioban whelean maybe?)

He always struck me as straight talking and deosnt get bogged down in trivial back-and-forth nonsense??

(Felt his apology for the up the ra comment was well taught out and owned it fairly honestly)

Wanderer78 · 20-04-2021 1:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

cullinane will likely bring in a 2nd sf td for waterford....assuming they select a high enough profile canditadate in west waterford (sioban whelean maybe?)

He always struck me as straight talking and deosnt get bogged down in trivial back-and-forth nonsense??

(Felt his apology for the up the ra comment was well taught out and owned it fairly honestly)

some fcuk up though, but he seems to have gotten away with it

hardybuck · 20-04-2021 3:43pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Cullinane has two quotas it'll take being "caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl" to change that.

No idea who mine are, I've never thought to get in touch with one to be honest.
If there was something that needed dealing with I'd get in touch with the council dept directly.

Re Cullinane - yeah I'd say he has a job for life now. A slight aside, while I think he's the most experienced and of the Waterford TDs, I'm never fully sure whether he and his colleagues are more committed to 'the cause' or their constituencies. I suspect the former, but he'll never admit that obviously.

Re Councillors - I would take a decent bit of interest in who they are and how they're doing. They, with the Council, set the direction about where the town is going. They're also the people who get local issues sorted out quite often.

Is Waterford served well by it's politicians at the moment?

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