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Is Waterford served well by it's politicians at the moment?

  • 11-04-2021 11:17am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ friendlyfun


    David Cullinane, Mary Butler, Matt Shanahan, and Marc O' Catasaigh.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    very personal question really, but western politics is in a lot of trouble at the moment, we ve successfully de-democratized our political systems, theyre now very powerless, we re at a point, it almost doesnt matter who we vote in, as they have limited abilities to change much


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭ E38E3E38E3EE33


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    very personal question really, but western politics is in a lot of trouble at the moment, we ve successfully de-democratized our political systems, theyre now very powerless, we re at a point, it almost doesnt matter who we vote in, as they have limited abilities to change much

    Can you elaborate on that a bit further please?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,369 ✭✭✭ Wanderer2010


    David Cullinane, Mary Butler, Matt Shanahan, and Marc O' Catasaigh.

    Im not mad about Sinn Fein but David Cullinane always shouts for us down here and doesnt shy away from interviews or challenging policies. Whether anyone is listening to him or not is another matter. At least he will come on radio to explain himself, unlike that coward Cummins.
    Butler is a pure politics yes woman. If Micheal Martin said tomorrow that WRH would move all its operations to Cork immediately, she would just nod along and attempt to justify it somehow. Anything not to go against the grain. There is no sense whatsoever that she cares about Waterford and is a career politician waiting for retirement and all the financial benefits associated with it. Similar to Halligan, that way.
    Shanahan seems to do a lot of work behind the scenes on the cardiac issue and the North Quays. But he doesnt seem to be a people person at all. He comes across quite abrupt in the few interviews i have heard, as if hes not comfortable around people or connecting with them.Odd career choice if hes built that way but if he gets results , it doesnt matter.
    Never even heard of the other guy so he must not have been in my radar at all! Ive heard good things about Eamonn Quinlan too, he does a lot of campaigning on behalf of people affected by issues up by Mount Suir.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Can you elaborate on that a bit further please?

    you can see elements of this de-democratization occurring all over the world, particularly over the last few decades, in an irish context, id argue, eu treaty re-votes was actually very disturbing, since when does an electorate get a vote 'wrong'! the whole pre and post crash situation was extremely disturbing to also experience, since when does unelected institutions get to call the shoots! we need to re-democratize, or we re in big trouble.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    In a short answer no, but in this regard they are merely upholding the ignoble tradition of collecting a pay cheque and a pension in this constituency.

    To be degree it depends what you want your national level TDs and even senators to do - look after the nation first or look after the constituency first. Clearly to get reelected TD's have to pay some attention to local matters and have something they can point to that is tangible. So far they have little to show for their time in the Dail, they'd no doubt point to Covid as the reason right now but it's clear they are not protecting our interests on the University or UHW for example. If the NQP fell through (God help us!) it would be interesting to see where the fallout landed - Falcon Properties, the government parties or a shrug blaming a change in the economy post pandemic.

    FF have a time server, the Greens are marginal SF are in opposition and Shanahan is an independent so we're hardly well positioned with who we elect and that doesn't feel like it'll change - FF/FG are so weak after years of failure I'd not be shocked if neither party returned anyone however Marc O'C is hardly ripping up any trees and squeaked in the last time so FG will surely hope to nab his seat. Cullinane is a shoe in just because he can't shed two quotas in one term and they could land a second with a good campaign. Shanahan could well stick about as the non party "protest" vote that won't vote SF (or anyone else).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    Absolutely not. Most Waterford voters don’t vote in terms of is this candidate someone who has the potential to be a full minister. We are not going to be served well until that starts to happen. All that matters in Irish politics is weather you have a minster in your constituency. That decides weather you are served well or not. I think most Waterford voters have not copped on to this yet. It is wrong that it is like that but that is just the way it is. I mean this thing of choosing between FF, FG, SF or Labour is bull ****, what the hell is the difference?


  • Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭ Asdfgh2020


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you can see elements of this de-democratization occurring all over the world, particularly over the last few decades, in an irish context, id argue, eu treaty re-votes was actually very disturbing, since when does an electorate get a vote 'wrong'! the whole pre and post crash situation was extremely disturbing to also experience, since when does unelected institutions get to call the shoots! we need to re-democratize, or we re in big trouble.

    Do you think that We could end up with a ‘hair bolsonaro’ type tee-shock in a few years ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    BBM77 wrote:
    Absolutely not. Most Waterford voters don’t vote in terms of is this candidate someone who has the potential to be a full minister. We are not going to be served well until that starts to happen. All that matters in Irish politics is weather you have a minster in your constituency. That decides weather you are served well or not. I think most Waterford voters have not copped on to this yet. It is wrong that it is like that but that is just the way it is. I mean this thing of choosing between FF, FG, SF or Labour is bull ****, what the hell is the difference?

    So people should vote for candidates that have the best chance of becoming a minister, and ta hell with their other concerns? Oh there's very big differences in ideologies alright, but I will agree, outcomes certainly do look similar, because they are, and this is the trouble we 're in, something radically must change, or.....
    Asdfgh2020 wrote:
    Do you think that We could end up with a ‘hair bolsonaro’ type tee-shock in a few years ?

    Anything is possible, but for the moment, id have to say no, but if we continue on our current path, that could change. anger and tension is growing, particularly amongst the young, and understandable so, as they're struggling to meet their most critical of needs, in particular housing, and by the looks of it, it's not gonna be solved before the next ge. so I'm expecting a rise in our own version of radicalisation, it's already occuring in the greens. Our own presidential election also showed, we 're well capable of the protest vote, so......


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    So people should vote for candidates that have the best chance of becoming a minister, and ta hell with their other concerns? Oh there's very big differences in ideologies alright, but I will agree, outcomes certainly do look similar, because they are, and this is the trouble we 're in, something radically must change, or.....

    That is what is happening now. Sure look at WIT for example. Are our valid concerns being addressed about the change to TUSE, no they are not. Would it be different if we had a full minister, it certainly would be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    BBM77 wrote: »
    That is what is happening now. Sure look at WIT for example. Are our valid concerns being addressed about the change to TUSE, no they are not. Would it be different if we had a full minister, it certainly would be.

    true, but people truly should have the right to vote for who they want, and not be ridiculed for so, wit is a complete disaster, it was always gonna be so, i dont even bother reading the thread anymore on it, another bloody mess. i wish we would have went for the elected major, it might have helped with decentralizing our political system, its too dail biased


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ friendlyfun


    I don't think we should elect any Marc again. Who even knew who Marc was before this? He had been a councilor about six months? He seems like a nice guy and he's intelligent but he's focus is always going to be on the environment first and foremost. Eamonn Ryan recently said that he'd like a tax on a cheap flights to tackle climate change. That's about as popular as root canal treatment.

    Before this I hadn't a high opinion of Matt Shanahan, however he's really asking all the right questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭ Gardner


    Next election Sinn Fein will return David Cullinane and Conor McGuinness while FF and FG will return a candidate each. Shanahan and O'Catasaigh are gone and rightly so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    I don't think we should elect any Marc again. Who even knew who Marc was before this? He had been a councilor about six months? He seems like a nice guy and he's intelligent but he's focus is always going to be on the environment first and foremost. Eamonn Ryan recently said that he'd like a tax on a cheap flights to tackle climate change. That's about as popular as root canal treatment.

    Before this I hadn't a high opinion of Matt Shanahan, however he's really asking all the right questions.

    marc casey is a really nice fella, but the greens are really dropping the ball, theyre not able to see the bigger picture at all, our environmental issues are serious, but so to are a lot of other issues, you can see the major parties are starting to pull on the greens ideas, so id say the greens will be hung out on the next one


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    In the space of about 6 months in 2020 Waterford had:

    - One TD who embarrassed himself on the national stage when he gave a shout out to a terrorist group shortly after being elected.

    - A second TD got into a row involving families of child abuse victims, conceded that she made huge errors of judgement in allowing certain people to canvass for her, and reported a Facebook group to Gardai last February in somewhat strange circumstances (I wonder if that complaint is still open or closed)?

    - A senator who lost his party whip for a few months after attending a golf event which contravened Covid regulations.

    People will have different expectations from their political representatives, but at least Shanahan and O'Cathasaigh have both avoided this type of controversy, so far at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ SeanieW1977


    hardybuck wrote: »
    In the space of about 6 months in 2020 Waterford had:

    - One TD who embarrassed himself on the national stage when he gave a shout out to a terrorist group shortly after being elected.

    - A second TD got into a row involving families of child abuse victims, conceded that she made huge errors of judgement in allowing certain people to canvass for her, and reported a Facebook group to Gardai last February in somewhat strange circumstances (I wonder if that complaint is still open or closed)?

    - A senator who lost his party whip for a few months after attending a golf event which contravened Covid regulations.

    People will have different expectations from their political representatives, but at least Shanahan and O'Cathasaigh have both avoided this type of controversy, so far at least.

    Same senator who went into hiding for weeks & is a total and utter party man, doesn’t care who he will step on to climb that ladder.

    Agree with rest, at least for their faults Marc & Matt are professional and represent us well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭ new92


    hardybuck wrote: »
    In the space of about 6 months in 2020 Waterford had:

    - One TD who embarrassed himself on the national stage when he gave a shout out to a terrorist group shortly after being elected.

    - A second TD got into a row involving families of child abuse victims, conceded that she made huge errors of judgement in allowing certain people to canvass for her, and reported a Facebook group to Gardai last February in somewhat strange circumstances (I wonder if that complaint is still open or closed)?

    - A senator who lost his party whip for a few months after attending a golf event which contravened Covid regulations.

    People will have different expectations from their political representatives, but at least Shanahan and O'Cathasaigh have both avoided this type of controversy, so far at least.

    Agreed, although I wouldn't be too hot on voting for a Green, Cathasaigh and Shanahan have some form and seem to know their brief.

    To say Cummins is embarrassing is an understatement. Butler is hopeless. Cullinane is now marmite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭ Asdfgh2020


    new92 wrote: »
    Agreed, although I wouldn't be too hot on voting for a Green, Cathasaigh and Shanahan have some form and seem to know their brief.

    To say Cummins is embarrassing is an understatement. Butler is hopeless. Cullinane is now marmite.

    Cummins May well become a TD yet. People have really short memories......he won’t be shy about blowing his own trumpet...?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    new92 wrote:
    To say Cummins is embarrassing is an understatement. Butler is hopeless. Cullinane is now marmite.

    Jesus Cummins is dreadful, he's a liability for his party, there doesn't seem to any coherent message from him, just a lot of noise


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Blaaz_ wrote:
    I think matt shanahan has been fairly good so far tbf....be happy to admit i was wrong about him

    Impressed with him myself, he definitely means well, and is determined


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭ jippo nolan


    Waterford used to be served by a top politician,
    Fortunately, he recovered from a back injury and is now playing golf at our expense in Florida!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ SeanieW1977


    Waterford used to be served by a top politician,
    Fortunately, he recovered from a back injury and is now playing golf at our expense in Florida!!

    How is it at our expense?

    He earned a salary the same as anyone else.

    And only for him there wouldn’t be a pot to piss in down here.

    Typical small minded , mealy mouthed begrudging waterford comment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ friendlyfun


    Cummins is someone I could never vote for. I saw how debated last year and it was actually embarrassing. He is incredibly thin skinned (as least that's impression I got). Fine Gael's fault for running two candidates last year, they over estimated their support in Waterford. It was never going to be high giving their contempt for Waterford City and County.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    I think we need to be a bit more realistic in terms of how we view these folks. Inevitably they're all human - waiting for the jokes on that but they suffer horrendous personal abuse that nobody deserves.

    They'll have good and bad days in the office. They'll get more experience over time and add to their skills just like the rest of us. I don't know about the rest of ye, but I certainly wasn't the finished article in my 20s.

    Getting the discussion slightly back on track to how they're doing - in fairness to those who had howlers I think they've probably all settled down.

    In terms of a very crude analysis, I think Cullinane has asked about 1,200 parliamentary questions since he was re-elected. Shanahan has asked about 150 and O'Cathasaigh has asked about 87. Butler is a Minister of State so it's a bit trickier to chart which questions she's asking and which she's answering.

    That's not an indication that they're performing well, but it'll give you a yardstick about some of the work they do. Cullinane will certainly benefit from having the huge resources of Sinn Fein behind them - they're probably the wealthiest and best resourced party.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I think we need to be a bit more realistic in terms of how we view these folks. Inevitably they're all human - waiting for the jokes on that but they suffer horrendous personal abuse that nobody deserves.

    They'll have good and bad days in the office. They'll get more experience over time and add to their skills just like the rest of us. I don't know about the rest of ye, but I certainly wasn't the finished article in my 20s.

    Getting the discussion slightly back on track to how they're doing - in fairness to those who had howlers I think they've probably all settled down.

    In terms of a very crude analysis, I think Cullinane has asked about 1,200 parliamentary questions since he was re-elected. Shanahan has asked about 150 and O'Cathasaigh has asked about 87. Butler is a Minister of State so it's a bit trickier to chart which questions she's asking and which she's answering.

    That's not an indication that they're performing well, but it'll give you a yardstick about some of the work they do. Cullinane will certainly benefit from having the huge resources of Sinn Fein behind them - they're probably the wealthiest and best resourced party.

    That is a loaded statement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    BBM77 wrote: »
    That is a loaded statement.

    I think it's a factual statement?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I think it's a factual statement?

    Well yes, but where did they get the money is the thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    BBM77 wrote: »
    Well yes, but where did they get the money is the thing.

    Well obviously they've had a huge windfall from the chap from Wales that left them millions in his will.

    Political donations over €2.5k are banned in Ireland, but I think they accepted the money in the UK - which doesn't have the same restrictions. I don't know if any of that money has made its way down here, but as a 32 county party who don't recognise the border I'd be surprised if it hasn't.

    In addition they've raised huge sums of money on fundraising dinners etc. in America.


  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭ Oscar Madison


    I don't believe we have representation.

    We have elected leeches and parasites!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ friendlyfun


    I think Sinn Fein probably are the wealthiest party in Ireland. There's a great degree of confidence you could say that with.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    I think Sinn Fein probably are the wealthiest party in Ireland. There's a great degree of confidence you could say that with.

    i wouldnt say so, id say the main parties, ffg, would be far wealthier, or much closer to wealth, theyd certainly have much stronger connections to wealth than most other parties


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