Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

1…148149151153154…325

Comments

  • #4502
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    paywall

    Sorry, let me try to find another link. It isn't behind a paywall for me for some reason.


  • #4503
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 338 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mille100piedi wrote: »
    I know how life was in Yougoslavia, some people liked communism especially the ones that worked in public sector. I didn't like the lack of freedom but the place was very clean and not criminals in the streets, only in the government

    Thank you for sharing that.Irish people have never lived under that kind of regime so it’s pretty alien to us as freedom is something we’ve always had and it’s been very good here in recent years till now.


  • #4504
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    mille100piedi wrote: »
    travelling abroad is going to end anyway, the governments signed the Paris agreement (the green deal)and as you can see at page 6 flying and shipping is going to end. People never read what government signed. With zero emission of course there will be no flying and shipping.

    Nope
    mille100piedi wrote: »
    Emigration will not be possible only if you have the right paper given you by the government . If you had experience in first person of what is living under communism you know what I am talking about

    Nope
    mille100piedi wrote: »
    and why they are closing all the airports?

    Nope
    mille100piedi wrote: »
    we are already living under communist restriction, it will be very traumatic for many people when they will start to realize this

    Nope


    I don't think I've ever seen so many conspiracy theories crammed into so few posts.


  • #4505
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The problem is that it's almost impossible to discuss any of this because it is dismissed as a conspiracy theory. Someone will come along soon and write 'conspiracy theory forum is that way'.

    Jack Mordes wrote an article about life in Victoria last year and how it reminded him of Poland in 1981: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/victoria-is-reminding-me-of-poland-in-1981/news-story/5300d2c901efe3fc3a74022973b5f214

    So are you saying that we shouldn't have brought in restrictions, that reduced the spread of the virus,
    just because they are like some restrictions that were in force in some communist regimes?

    If we had brought in twice as severe restrictions in April last year, and stamped the virus out in 6 weeks,
    and then brought in mandatory quarantining for all people arriving in Ireland from then on,
    and then didn't need further severe lockdowns,
    that would have been very very bad because it reminds you of what communist China did (and succeeded)?


  • #4506
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Can't find another link. A few points from the article:

    "The restrictions in Victoria on our movements, our work, and even our thoughts bring back chilling memories for those of us who ­escaped totalitarian regimes.

    ... never did I think our basic freedoms would be removed in Australia. Never did I think a pregnant woman would be handcuffed for merely saying she would protest against the government. This is not the Australia in which my family sought refuge.

    The Polish people’s fight to regain the freedoms they lost under martial law took a further eight years and ended with the ultimate collapse of the socialist regime in 1989. Many people died, families were broken, dreams lost and generations wasted.

    Andrews’s rhetoric is worryingly reminiscent of the former Eastern bloc’s socialist leaders. He blames Victorians for the actions he has had to take to protect us while removing civil liberties that no democratic government should ever touch. He is relying on unelected and unseen “experts” to justify removing our freedoms, much like Jaruzelski did with his Military Council of National Salvation.

    My mother cannot believe that at 78 she again finds herself under effective house arrest in a democratic Australia.

    A crisis can lay bare the instincts of leaders. Once a government takes away civil liberties, it doesn’t always find it easy to give them back without a fight.

    And what of Poland now? It is one of the fastest growing large economies in Europe. Even in a COVID-19 world, domestic and international travel is allowed, masks are not compulsory in public spaces and indoor and outdoor gatherings are permitted. Compared with Victoria, Poland has experienced lower cases and deaths per population. And all without sacrificing civil liberties.

    Perhaps it is only when you have to fight for your civil liberties that you learn you never want to give them up again."


  • Advertisement
  • #4507
    mille100piedi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭mille100piedi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The problem is that it's almost impossible to discuss any of this because it is dismissed as a conspiracy theory. Someone will come along soon and write 'conspiracy theory forum is that way'.

    Jack Mordes wrote an article about life in Victoria last year and how it reminded him of Poland in 1981: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/victoria-is-reminding-me-of-poland-in-1981/news-story/5300d2c901efe3fc3a74022973b5f214

    many people will never admit that and many of them love when the government controls every aspect of the citizens life. If you think one out of six person in East Germany was a Stasi agent. My husband is Polish in the 80s there was a curfew in Poland and he couldn't leave the house after 10pm.


  • #4508
    mille100piedi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭mille100piedi


    gansi wrote: »
    Thank you for sharing that.Irish people have never lived under that kind of regime so it’s pretty alien to us as freedom is something we’ve always had and it’s been very good here in recent years till now.

    People that lived under communist can always see the shadow of communism


  • #4509
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    mille100piedi wrote: »
    People that lived under communist can always see the shadow of communism

    even when it's not there apparently


  • #4510
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ... never did I think our basic freedoms would be removed in Australia. Never did I think a pregnant woman would be handcuffed for merely saying she would protest against the government. This is not the Australia in which my family sought refuge.

    So do I understand that he was against the lockdown in Australia?
    How is Australia's 'freedom' now, compared to Ireland and most of Europe?
    Did the Australian government's strategy not work very well?


  • #4511
    mille100piedi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭mille100piedi


    Graham wrote: »
    Nope



    Nope



    Nope



    Nope


    I don't think I've ever seen so many conspiracy theories crammed into so few posts.

    come here to talk about this in a couple of years and then we can discuss this


  • Advertisement
  • #4512
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    So are you saying that we shouldn't have brought in restrictions, that reduced the spread of the virus,
    just because they are like some restrictions that were in force in some communist regimes?

    If we had brought in twice as severe restrictions in April last year, and stamped the virus out in 6 weeks,
    and then brought in mandatory quarantining for all people arriving in Ireland from then on,
    and then didn't need further severe lockdowns,
    that would have been very very bad because it reminds you of what communist China did (and succeeded)?

    I'm not saying that. I think the restrictions are too harsh. Children can't play sport, practically everywhere is shut, people can't meet other people in their own garden, an appointment has to be made to buy a pair of shoes, no haircuts, no social outlets, and now the government proposes to grant people 'additional freedoms' (additional to what, by the way?) but only if they agree to use a vaccine passport.


  • #4513
    mille100piedi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭mille100piedi


    Graham wrote: »
    even when it's not there apparently

    if you are blind is not my fault


  • #4514
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 338 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm not saying that. I think the restrictions are too harsh. Children can't play sport, practically everywhere is shut, people can't meet other people in their own garden, an appointment has to be made to buy a pair of shoes, no haircuts, no social outlets, and now the government proposes to grant people 'additional freedoms' (additional to what, by the way?) but only if they agree to use a vaccine passport.

    In a shop the other day all the stationary was for sale and the book section closed off books covered behind plastic. Why why? I was in the shop anyway so what difference would it have made. Down the road Tesco have their book section open. No logic at all.


  • #4515
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    So do I understand that he was against the lockdown in Australia?
    How is Australia's 'freedom' now, compared to Ireland and most of Europe?
    Did the Australian government's strategy not work very well?

    Domestically, in most states, life is pretty much normal, but it's not a sustainable strategy. Western Australia locked down over a case a couple of months ago. Queensland over a handful of cases. But it's short lockdowns as opposed to the year long lockdown in Ireland.

    I don't know how Australia will ever reopen its border if it sticks to its current strategy post-vaccination. But if it accepts a certain number of cases then it will work.


  • #4516
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not saying that. I think the restrictions are too harsh. Children can't play sport, practically everywhere is shut, people can't meet other people in their own garden, an appointment has to be made to buy a pair of shoes, no haircuts, no social outlets, and now the government proposes to grant people 'additional freedoms' (additional to what, by the way?) but only if they agree to use a vaccine passport.

    Isn't some of that changing from tomorrow?
    Two families can meet outdoors, etc.

    What you say would make sense if there was no virus.
    But there is a virus, and the measures were put in place to combat the virus.
    If we had had less harsh restrictions, do you think the virus transmission would have gone down, or up,
    and where do you think we would be today (seeing as France and Germany have just upped their restrictions)


  • #4517
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mille100piedi wrote: »
    was the SPARS Pandemic Scenario written in 2017 a strategic thought provoker study too?

    https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/pubs_archive/pubs-pdfs/2017/spars-pandemic-scenario.pdf

    By the way, I find SPARS very scary.


  • #4518
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    gansi wrote: »
    In a shop the other day all the stationary was for sale and the book section closed off books covered behind plastic. Why why? I was in the shop anyway so what difference would it have made. Down the road Tesco have their book section open. No logic at all.

    The basic idea is to reduce the numbers of people visiting shops, and increasing risk,
    you won't go there again looking for books, will you (till this is over)?


  • #4519
    Sharpyshoot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭Sharpyshoot


    gansi wrote: »
    In a shop the other day all the stationary was for sale and the book section closed off books covered behind plastic. Why why? I was in the shop anyway so what difference would it have made. Down the road Tesco have their book section open. No logic at all.

    Virus doesn’t spread in Tesco.


  • #4520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gansi wrote: »
    In a shop the other day all the stationary was for sale and the book section closed off books covered behind plastic. Why why? I was in the shop anyway so what difference would it have made. Down the road Tesco have their book section open. No logic at all.

    Yes, no logic. Books can be sold in Sweden (and in other countries, but Sweden is the most prominent example in Europe), but not in Ireland. Shoes can be sold without an appointment in Sweden, but not in Ireland. People can go 6km from their home in Sweden, but not in Ireland.


  • #4521
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, no logic. Books can be sold in Sweden (and in other countries, but Sweden is the most prominent example in Europe), but not in Ireland. Shoes can be sold without an appointment in Sweden, but not in Ireland. People can go 6km from their home in Sweden, but not in Ireland.

    Sweden had much higher death rates than their comparable neighbouring countries.

    Not in Ireland.


  • Advertisement
  • #4522
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Sharpyshoot wrote: »
    Virus doesn’t spread in Tesco.

    Are we back to pretending somebody suggested this again?


  • #4523
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Domestically, in most states, life is pretty much normal, but it's not a sustainable strategy. Western Australia locked down over a case a couple of months ago. Queensland over a handful of cases. But it's short lockdowns as opposed to the year long lockdown in Ireland.

    I don't know how Australia will ever reopen its border if it sticks to its current strategy post-vaccination. But if it accepts a certain number of cases then it will work.

    What happens when they get everyone vaccinated?
    Won't their strategy have worked very well,
    kept everyone safe, kept economy open,
    and then open up to international travel when it's safe to do so.
    And people can still travel today, if they are prepared to quarantine.


  • #4524
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graham wrote: »
    Sweden had much higher death rates than their comparable neighbouring countries.

    Not in Ireland.

    But there are lot of reasons for that. Sweden is very different from its neighbours. It was hit harder and earlier than its neighbours, its population makeup is different, and it failed to protect its nursing home residents.

    And Sweden has fared a lot better than countries in Western Europe who had, and continue to have, harsh restrictions and who have been in and out of lockdown for over a year. And Sweden hasn't wrecked its economy and society.


  • #4525
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 338 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    The basic idea is to reduce the numbers of people visiting shops, and increasing risk,
    you won't go there again looking for books, will you (till this is over)?

    But I didn’t go there looking for books I just decided to buy one as I was there anyway, but I couldn’t.


  • #4526
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, no logic. Books can be sold in Sweden (and in other countries, but Sweden is the most prominent example in Europe), but not in Ireland. Shoes can be sold without an appointment in Sweden, but not in Ireland. People can go 6km from their home in Sweden, but not in Ireland.

    Sweden didn't have an official lockdown, however they still did most of the things we did, asked the population to do social distancing, limit numbers of social interactions, masks on public transport, etc.
    Some of what they did was different to us, but they did have more people die than us (per head of population)


  • #4527
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,129 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    What happens when they get everyone vaccinated?
    Won't their strategy have worked very well,
    kept everyone safe, kept economy open,
    and then open up to international travel when it's safe to do so.
    And people can still travel today, if they are prepared to quarantine.

    Only if they move away from their current strategy. If they continue with their current strategy post-vaccination then they'll never be able to reopen to the rest of the world.

    And their tourism and hospitality industries are ruined. But I do think Australia can bounce back if they change their strategy.

    I thought Australia was closed to all tourists. I thought it was only Australian citizens who were allowed to enter the country.


  • #4528
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But there are lot of reasons for that. Sweden is very different from its neighbours. It was hit harder and earlier than its neighbours, its population makeup is different, and it failed to protect its nursing home residents.

    And Sweden has fared a lot better than countries in Western Europe who had, and continue to have, harsh restrictions and who have been in and out of lockdown for over a year. And Sweden hasn't wrecked its economy and society.

    But maybe, by your logic, the other countries in Western Europe are "very different to" Sweden,
    just like you say that Sweden is "very different to" its neighbours!!

    Isn't this picture a bit more complicated that you think?


  • #4529
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Only if they move away from their current strategy. If they continue with their current strategy post-vaccination then they'll never be able to reopen to the rest of the world.

    And their tourism and hospitality industries are ruined. But I do think Australia can bounce back if they change their strategy.

    I thought Australia was closed to all tourists. I thought it was only Australian citizens who were allowed to enter the country.

    And why would they continue with their current strategy once they get everyone vaccinated?


  • #4530
    PintOfView
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    gansi wrote: »
    But I didn’t go there looking for books I just decided to buy one as I was there anyway, but I couldn’t.

    But you get the general idea, if the book section was open more people would go there who were just there to buy a book!!


  • Advertisement
  • #4531
    jd1983
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭jd1983


    Graham wrote: »
    Sweden had much higher death rates than their comparable neighbouring countries.

    Not in Ireland.

    The counties neighbouring Sweden also had very few restrictions in the past year. The main difference is that they protected their nursing home residents better than Sweden and this was done without long lockdowns like in Ireland.
    Ireland's death rate for over 65's is slightly higher than Sweden.
    So to conclude, our lockdown measures caused massive grief without any disease prevention benefits.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement